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JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,129
Chicago
Early on in the season, I was 100% in on Mephisto. Given everything that happened this week, I'm thinking Agatha is working with Nightmare, which would be a perfect segue into Doctor Strange 2. The Darkhold is obviously the bridge to Blade too.

God damn, it feels so good to have the MCU going exactly where I want it to.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
As far as I know, Agatha isn't really a hero on the comics. She is just a very old witch with her own agenda, but genuinely likes Wanda.
I can see her doing this without being manipulated, but also turning around to mentoring Wanda later

Speaking of witches. Emma Caulfield appears for a split second, which might have been just to indicate that the whole "Wanda has to hide her powers" schtick is meaningless now because she is using her powers in the open and no one cares, but I think there is still room for this town to be home to a full coven.
 

AWizardDidIt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,461
Solid setup for the endgame. Let's get wackkyyyyy for the end.

Spectrum vs Quicksilver? ooooohhhhh if we get a speedster vs speedster fight I'ma mark out

UGH this better happen. Can you imagine a set piece scene like QS had in the DoFP & Apocalypse but with him fighting someone of equal or greater speed?

That shit would be so hype.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,397
Melbourne, Australia
I don't read this thread much so forgive me if this has been talked about to death but I don't really think Pietro is X-Men Quicksilver. I think that's just a fun (or I guess for some of y'all a disappointing) bait and switch.

I think he's straight up a dead body Agatha was able to raise from the dead and have pose as Pietro. When the illusion broke and we saw Vision as a corpse it was confirmed the very next week that Wanda had taken his body. Last week we saw the illusion break again and I don't think it was simply Wanda's trauma seeping through. Pietro described himself as just some chump who was shot in the street and I don't think he was describing the real Pietro's fate, I think he was literally just some guy in Westview who got shot a few times before all of this that Agatha raised to play the part.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
Yeah, the Nexus design is identical to the Nexus in Fortnite currently. Heh.
At least we know where the twins are ;v

Also, next week
scarletwitch.gif
 

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,782
Everyone and their mother has been calling Agnes as Agatha since pretty much the beginning of this so it took some of the surprise out.
Well yeah. I feel like that was kind of the point.

But we didn't necessarily guess she was an antagonistic force; as others pointed out, she's Wanda's mentor and friend in the comics.
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,986
Somewhere.
I guess the next episode is flashback stuff on why Agatha did this (maybe Nightmare is involved?), and then the last episode is the final battle against her and/or sword.

God, I just can't get over that Agatha's intro lol. It is really fantastic.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,864
Fucking loved this episode!

Just when you almost start to get off Agnes' trail, where at the very least you think she's an ally, the next episode pulls this. And even if it was an obvious villain reveal for those paying attention (although it's impossible not to suspect her tbh), the creepy basement to the hilarious reveal montage was just perfection, so fucking campy in a way we never see in the MCU. And she killed Sparky too! 😭😭

And Monica, though it was clear she was getting her powers from this show, the way they went about it was very impactful I felt, getting to hear Maria and Carol really worked for me.



NO 😅
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,364
At the end when Pietro catches Monica her eyes have turned purple-like when Agatha controls something.

I don't think they were a different colour because of Agnes. Her eyes changed colour earlier in the episode when she was seeing those electromagnetic waves and when confronting wanda. She was just being defensive and ready to use her powers. Which of course, because Quicksilver just surprised her.

Next episode will be the two of them working together to help Wanda.
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,133
Toronto
Can someone explain why Monica believed that she was gonna be able to get through the barrier?
Was it because of what Darcy said to her in the previous episode about her body is changing or whatever?
It seemed kinda reckless imo.
People assume Darcy was correct that the barrier was changing Monica each time she crossed it but her reaction to her scans makes me think she had these powers before getting sucked in the first time and she knew it.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
I guess the next episode is flashback stuff on why Agatha did this (maybe Nightmare is involved?), and then the last episode is the final battle against her and/or sword.

God, I just can't get over that Agatha's intro lol. It is really fantastic.
I've watched that song about 7 times. It's genius.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
The "I killed sparky, too" YET another example of how the showrunners knew PRECISELY what our conversations would be like.
They basically read this thread from the future and reverse-engineered it to make the show.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,864
I feel like the presence of a musical number poking fun at the whole thing makes it clear they wanted this to not be the biggest surprise.

Yea it was 100% clear. Agnes being an antagonist of some kind is not at all a hard thing to guess correctly, even with 0 comic knowledge. So them completely leaning into it and making some good campy fun more than made up for it being "obvious"

And even then, some were doubtful after last week's episode.
 

AWizardDidIt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,461
Speaking of witches. Emma Caulfield appears for a split second, which might have been just to indicate that the whole "Wanda has to hide her powers" schtick is meaningless now because she is using her powers in the open and no one cares, but I think there is still room for this town to be home to a full coven.

I feel like Dottie *has* to be someone. My current best theory is Dr Strange in disguise keeping an eye on things.
 

spad3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,125
California
The emphasis on the fly = Mephisto right off the bat. They're throwing every single hint in the book (heh) at us that it's indeed Mephisto.

My theory on his sudden *awakening* is the sudden return of so many souls. The Snap eliminated half of all life everywhere, so Mephisto - a being that thrives off of souls - was probably starved for at least 5 years. But then all of a sudden, when the souls came back...Big Red needs to feed...
 

Magic-Man

User requested ban
Member
Feb 5, 2019
11,454
Epic Universe
Bro if this villain isn't Mephisto I'm going to be surprised as all hell. It's fucking him. His first appearance in the comics was a fly apparently.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Oh, btw, we have been talking about a Nexus to all realities, but the Scarlet Witch is also something called a Nexus Being

marvel.fandom.com

Nexus Beings

[top] [Edit Nexus Beings]

Nexus Beings are rare individual entities with the ability to affect probability and thus the future, thereby altering the flow of the Universal Time Stream. These beings, each referred to as a nexus, act as the keystones of the Multiverse and are crucial to its ultimate coherence and stability.[SUP][1][/SUP] Nexus Beings are vigilantly watched over by cosmic forces such as the Time Variance Authority and the Time-Keepers to be aware of any temporal changes that the nexi may cause to the Time Stream and act accordingly.

Time Variance Authority, of course, is coming to us on the Loki show.
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,950
Man when Monica was going through the Hex and the last thing said in the montage was Carole saying "Your mom's lucky when they was handing out kids they gave her the toughest one"
lYufOET.gif


Also I don't give a fuck I'm taking the contact saying" "Capcom, Check" as confirmation for Marvel vs. Capcom 4 and I will not be told otherwise.

And finally
 

Rickyrozay2o9

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,363
I don't think they were a different colour because of Agnes. Her eyes changed colour earlier in the episode when she was seeing those electromagnetic waves and when confronting wanda. She was just being defensive and ready to use her powers. Which of course, because Quicksilver just surprised her.

Next episode will be the two of them working together to help Wanda.
hey eyes are blue when its her power but those were definitely purple.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
I can't get over how perfect that reveal was. A good amount of creepy, tense mystery leading up to it and then The Munsters inspired theme song with a montage of all the things Agatha was involved in and even the final reveal that she totally killed sparky. It had everything.

Here's the Munsters theme song for anyone unaware.
 

Android

Member
Oct 28, 2017
803
Vancouver
So glad it's not that stupid idea that it was all Wanda with zero influence or help. That would have made her character unsalvageable as a hero. How do you go back to being one after enslaving an entire town. I'm thinking either the rabbit, the cicada, Pietro or all three are Agatha's accomplice(s).
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,864
I wonder if Agnes, err, Agatha is really working for someone after all.

Also is the cicada supposed to mean anything? You know, aside from the swarm coming in a few months that will bug the hell out of me...

So glad it's not that stupid idea that it was all Wanda with zero influence or help. That would have made her character unsalvageable as a hero. How do you go back to being one after enslaving an entire town. I'm thinking either the rabbit, the cicada, Pietro or all three are Agatha's accomplice(s).

Yup, that would've been awful
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,840
I enjoyed this episode but man I feel like I'm missing out not being as well versed in Marvel lore. I have no idea who Agatha is and can't appreciate the reveal like the rest of you can. I'm happy for the Marvel fans who are loving all the references though.
 

VAD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,529
The "I killed sparky, too" YET another example of how the showrunners knew PRECISELY what our conversations would be like.
They basically read this thread from the future and reverse-engineered it to make the show.
Sparky noooo! Agatha better gets what's coming to her.
I'm disappointed Wanda got taken advantage again... (hydra, then Ultron, then Shield) It's like she is written to be the butt of someone's joke.
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,494
I wonder if Agnes, err, Agatha is really working for someone after all.

Also is the cicada supposed to mean anything? You know, aside from the swarm coming in a few months that will bug the hell out of me...



Yup, that would've been awful
I think she is working with or in service to someone. We don't know what her ultimate goal is though we know she is likely syphoning off magic for a reason
 

spad3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,125
California
I wonder if Agnes, err, Agatha is really working for someone after all.

Also is the cicada supposed to mean anything? You know, aside from the swarm coming in a few months that will bug the hell out of me...



Yup, that would've been awful

The cicada is a direct reference to Mephisto.

Agatha is being controlled by Mephisto 100%
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,617
Well that was a choice for the ending lol

I don't know how I feel about that. I like the whole concept but it might have been a bit too cheesily done for me.
 

Gambit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,177
People assume Darcy was correct that the barrier was changing Monica each time she crossed it but her reaction to her scans makes me think she had these powers before getting sucked in the first time and she knew it.

That's my feeling as well. This might have just been the thing to give her control over it or something. I think she's been made of energy for a while before the show.


LOVED the musical number. Had to rewatch it a few times, too.

I still very much hope Pietro is Fox's Quicksilver. I think it would be a fantastic way to bring Quicksilver back without cheapening the death. It would give him a unique dynamic with Wanda. Twins from different universes!

Let's hope neither of them is from the Ultimate universe...
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
I think she is working with or in service to someone. We don't know what her ultimate goal is though we know she is likely syphoning off magic for a reason


So, yeah. My new theory is that the book is actually the Necronomicon, rather than the Darkhold, and Agatha is trying to summon Mephesto into the real world.

And she is using the power of the bubble that Wanda created to do so.
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,494
Personally i am leaning towards Agatha wanting to bring back Nightmare or Mephisto (who can only appear in small ways and don't have the power to fullly manifest themselves)
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
This show is so much fun. I am giggling in this thread. I was giggling watching it. Giggles all around.
 

Timbuktu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,234
So is it really Wanda who's been keeping Vision from going home or Agnes, since she's been the one to get Vision to see the artifice and get him away throughout.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,119
Los Angeles, CA
The episode was awesome, and Monica is awesome. I'm gonna spoiler tag just in case

Like she said episodes ago, she thinks that Wanda understands that she's an ally, which is how she was able to pass through the wall so easily that first time.

For this instance, the Hex is stronger due to Wanda changing it a few episodes back, but by that point, Monica's dna had already been altered, so she was strong enough to resist the resistance of the Hex, and still pass through, because Wanda still knows subconsciously that Monica is a friend.

Agatha has been causing grief, but she didn't create the Hex. That's still Wanda, so I think Monica was confident/trusting Wanda's innate goodness, that she'd be able to pass through the Hex and survive.

I didn't necessarily view Monica entering the Hex again as reckless. I viewed it as her standing by her convictions (that Wanda isn't evil, and is worth saving), and was willing to take a dangerous risk entering the Hex like she did, because, well, that's what heroes do: set aside risk to themselves to protect others. Her plan was to talk Wanda down, using their similar struggles with grief. If successful, she would, A) save Wanda's life, and B) Save the people of Westview trapped in this scenario Wanda created against her will. It's no different than what most superheroes do in these stories.

I love Monica, and I was so jazzed when her powers manifested. It's time for some Spectrum! So excited for next week's episode.

Now that the Agatha reveal is done, I think it's safe to confidently speculate on whether or not Pietro is from the FOX universe. Agatha could have easily been mind controlling him to play his role and keep Wanda off balance. He doesn't even have to be Mephisto masquerading as Pietro now. All of his out of character moments could be Agatha's doing.

I was on team "not actually Quicksilver" (but I also didn't think he was Mephisto either). Now, I'm thinking he may, indeed, be FOX Quicksilver pulled from his morality, and mind scrambled and controlled by Agnes.

This episode was so good. This show has been fantastic, and I admit it's going to be hard for the other MCU shows to top it for me, though I have no doubt they're going to be very good too!

It's just been so long since a show has kept me guessing and unsure of where it's going.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,617
I wasn't so much feeling the way the episode revealed things until we got to Agatha I think. But I did like some of the interviews, and how the format of the episode was setup like a comedy still, but nothing was really funny. Or maybe i just don't gel with this style of humor lol

Also snoopers gonna snoop.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,864
I enjoyed this episode but man I feel like I'm missing out not being as well versed in Marvel lore. I have no idea who Agatha is and can't appreciate the reveal like the rest of you can. I'm happy for the Marvel fans who are loving all the references though.

I didn't even know who Agatha was before this show, I'm just enjoying the reveal of this apparently campy witch that's been manipulating Wanda all aloooong lol

I think she is working with or in service to someone. We don't know what her ultimate goal is though we know she is likely syphoning off magic for a reason

The cicada is a direct reference to Mephisto.

Agatha is being controlled by Mephisto 100%

Looking at earlier posts, he's normally a fly in the comics it seems, but yea that'd still work, man that'd be really hype