Wait, people don't like the Ace Attorney games after Trials and Tribulations? (Apollo Justice, DD, Spirit of Justice)

[TheChungusAmongUs]

I was in the "game sequels that are like bad fanfic" thread, and reading through the responses I was genuinely surprised to see a bunch of Ace Attorney posts. A lot of people claimed Dual Destinies was not good, and I saw some people also claiming Spirit of Justice and Apollo Justice are also not great. I can't say I keep my finger on the pulse of the AA fanbase, but I do genuinely love these games. It's one of my favorite franchises and it made me try Danganronpa (which I hate) because I love figuring out murder mystery type gameplay.

I kinda understand why some people don't like Apollo Justice (the game, not the precious boi) because of "shitty Phoenix" feeling like character assassination, but I am genuinely confused why people don't like Dual Destinies or Spirit of Justice. The final case of DD is probably my favorite final case and I think Dhurke in Spirit of Justice is awesome.

So I wanted to hear from AA fans about why they dislike those games, and why they like the original trilogy more.

 

[werezompire]

I've played 1,2,3, and 5 and I thought all of them were fun. I don't know that I have a favorite, but 2 is probably my least favorite (but even 2 is a fun game)

 

[MoogleMaestro]

Some people don't.

However, not everyone has to like everything. Personally speaking, the games after T&T are great. I think Spirit of Justice might even surprass T&T, or at least get close.

 

[Homura]

AJ is ok, DD is mediocre and SOJ is the best game in the series.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

I've played 1,2,3, and 5 and I thought all of them were fun. I don't know that I have a favorite, but 2 is probably my least favorite (but even 2 is a fun game)

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2 is also my least favorite of the games.

I think it basically feels more like a prologue to explain the crazy places Trials and Tribulations goes to in regards to the Fey's.

 

[sir_crocodile]

They're weaker games overall, though I still enjoy them.

I liked Phoenix in AA4, but I didn't like his character regression in DD.

AAI1 & 2 rock though

 

[Ferrio]

I liked Apollo Justice a lot, actually never played passed that. Think them reverting Phoenix kinda left a bad taste in my mouth, bum genius Phoenix was great.

 

[BorkBork]

I like em all, but fell off after 5.

 

[solidr]

AJ and DD are really not that good (but still better than the second game), but SoJ is easily the second best AA game (only counting main games)

 

[Starlatine]

dual destinies is very mediocre. that the only good case is the DLC one just twists the knife even more. i have no strong feelings about the other two, even like them.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

Some people don't.

However, not everyone has to like everything. Personally speaking, the games after T&T are great. I think Spirit of Justice might even surprass T&T, or at least get close.

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I know, but I wanted to understand why some people feel these games dropped the ball in comparison to the original trilogy.

 

[Deleted member 5621]

Apollo is pure garbo

I still went through the entire thing multiple times because bad AA games are still fun as heck

 

[BassForever]

I really enjoyed 5 & 6, Blackwell in 5 is the best prosecutor in the series. 5's dlc case may be the funniest case in the entire series.

I think 4 (Apollo Justice) is the worst game in the series, it's still very good and worth playing at least once.

AAI1 is good, but AAI2 is AMAZING and is probably my favorite game in the series.

 

[RKasa]

I think what it comes down to is that people don't like the Apollo trilogy out of a preference for Nick and the Fey siblings/cousins, but I personally like it well enough. Klavier is my favorite prosecutor in the series, and Spirit of Justice in particular is one of the best installments in the franchise.

I've played 1,2,3, and 5 and I thought all of them were fun. I don't know that I have a favorite, but 2 is probably my least favorite (but even 2 is a fun game)

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I'm the weirdo who really likes 2. It's the dislike for that game that I don't get.

 

[Unknownlight]

The "sequel trilogy" has a far less cohesive narrative than the original trilogy, so I can see why they could be viewed as fanfiction-ish, but they're still great games.

1, 3, and 6 are top-tier.
4 and 5 are mid-tier.
2 is low-tier.

 

[Nali]

Apollo Justice's title character gets upstaged in his own game, while Dual Destinies' writing is just tepid all around, on top of the game holding the player's hand way too tight the whole way through.

Spirit of Justice was fantastic, though.

 

[werezompire]

I'm the weirdo who really likes 2. It's the dislike for that game that I don't get.

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I feel like the music isn't as good and the middle cases are mediocre. The final case is awesome though.

 

[Starlatine]

I know, but I wanted to understand why some people feel these games dropped the ball in comparison to the original trilogy.

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speaking for DD:
-characterization feels bad
-relies too much on the overly anime "power of friendshipppppp" trope
-some cases are worse rethreads of older cases (the jinx village one, which is my least favourite case in the whole series yes even worse than the circus one)
-the third case could be interesting but drags for too long, relying too much on the trope already mentioned and annoying character gimmicks (if you speak word for word one more time i swear to god robin) and extreme dumb logic (basically anything hugh does)
-the final cases are not that really interesting and the big villain aint that good to take down

 

[Enduin]

Failed to move on from Phoenix as the series lead and main focus, resulting in some strained and underwhelming cases, game mechanics and plotlines.

I think 4-6 are still very good games, just that they failed to move on and build off of the original series both in terms of gameplay and narrative. AJ was a decent enough start to a new saga, but fans reacted poorly and Capcom got spooked and thus we got DD which resulted in many many compromises and issues.

 

[Virtua King]

I like 6 a lot, which is almost on par with the original trilogy to me. 4 peaks at the first case, but it's still enjoyable aside from some ups and downs (a.k.a rewatching that music video a billion times).

5 is pretty boring though. Yeah, the "real" bad guy's identity was a twist, but everything else about this game is just so flat and dull, and that goes for Blackquill too. The whale DLC case was fun at least.

I also think 4 and 5 suffer for not having Maya, since she's the funniest character along with Gumshoe.

 

[cyba89]

Spirit of Justice is the second best entry in the franchise.

 

[Deleted member 57020]

I wish the series never leaned towards the spirit channeling aspect. The first and maybe investigations 2 has always been the peak.

 

[Melpomene]

I mean, none of them have Gumshoe in them, so they're pretty much hot garbage by default.

(I enjoyed all of them, really, although I get the sense that they're less and less sure what to do with the overarching narrative as time goes on).

 

[RochHoch]

AJ is pretty bad. Apollo isn't even the main focus of his own game, Cases and 3 and 4 are both terrible, outside of the Phoenix portion.

Dual Destinies is just really mediocre all throughout. Too easy and the writing just isn't very good.

Spirit of Justice however, is easily one of the best in the series. They spent three games trying to figure out what to do with Apollo, but they finally delivered.

 

[Raijinto]

AJ is disappointing that it only has 4 cases and one of them just isn't fun to play through (the third one) with how often you have to watch and rewind the game flipping video. I like both DD and especially SoJ, all-in-all I would say they're both better than JFA and the first game, nostalgia notwithstanding. T&T is in a league of its own though.

 

[Lumination]

People salty about AA4 (mostly) just don't like Apollo in place of Phoenix. Some people are rightfully upset about Apollo being overshadowed in his own game.

AA5 is poorly written with paper-thin characters and the only legitimately meh one.

AA6 is fantastic. Not perfect, but one of the best.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

I mean, none of them have Gumshoe in them, so they're pretty much hot garbage by default.

(I enjoyed all of them, really, although I get the sense that they're less and less sure what to do with the overarching narrative as time goes on).

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That's a fair critique

 

[Kneefoil]

Apollo Justice is one of my favourite games in the series. Spirit of Justice is pretty good, although I'm not entirely happy with the new backstory they came up for Apollo.

I think Dual Destinies is horrible, though. Bad plot and boring characters and dialogue.

 

[Lant_War]

I don't hate or even dislike them, but they're a noticeable step down over the greatness from the trilogy. Investigations 2 is the only one that managed to reach those heights.

To me, it's that they didn't understand what made the Ace Attorney universe appealing and the cases interesting. Athena's gimmick is annoying, the characters are so over-the-top insane that they become one-dimensional caricatures of themselves, the art became this ultra colorful mess, even the music of 5 and 6 is lame for the most part (props to AJ for actually having some great tunes).

They still have their moments from time to time, 6-1 is probably one of the best introductory chapters in the series, but after that it suffers from the same problems as 4 and 5, I just don't give a fuck about these characters. They don't have to stick with Franziska and Gumshoe till eternity, but when the replacements are so bland it becomes hard not to miss them.

 

[bluexy]

It's just that the original trilogy feels so cohesive and well-executed. The games since have struggled to be their own thing. I've enjoyed all of the games immensely, but in many ways they come across like building off of the success of the original games rather than aspiring to be their own thing, trying be something that can both stand on its own and grow into its own wonderful thing.

Apollo + DD + SOJ are all games I'm comfortable saying, "If you enjoyed the original three games, then yeah, keep going with these newer ones. They do some fun things." When really, the franchise needs a new starting point. It doesn't even need gimmicks like DD or SOJ added, it just needs to not require familiarity with a 15-year old game series that's story and character development-heavy.

 

[ze_]

AA5 is my least favourite game in the series, and I feel there's seriously something off about the localization there. It feels completely vapid. I do not have this problem with AA6. I did like AA5's DLC case, though!

People aren't fond of the constantly escalating stakes in AAI1 through AA6, though I don't mind this as much.

AA4 might be the most aesthetically cohesive game in the series. Music and visuals are top notch and in perfect synergy. Rest of the game, eh.

I'd say to this day that AA3 and 1 are the best games in the series. After that I have the controversial opinion that AAI2 and PLvAA (yes, that) would rank below those and above the rest. I've not played DGS games but desperately want to... looking into getting a new 2DS XL for this purpose.

edit: Also, I can admit that AA6 is silly but I also think it's pretty damn fun regardless. Like, yes, the sheer... everything happening with Apollo is ridiculous but also, he gets quite a few truly great scenes with you-know-who. Loved the mock CYA sequence, dug the seance gimmick, and enjoyed Phoenix's continued accidental parenthood tales.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

speaking for DD:
-characterization feels bad
-relies too much on the overly anime "power of friendshipppppp" trope
-some cases are worse rethreads of older cases (the jinx village one, which is my least favourite case in the whole series yes even worse than the circus one)
-the third case could be interesting but drags for too long, relying too much on the trope already mentioned and annoying character gimmicks (if you speak word for word one more time i swear to god robin) and extreme dumb logic (basically anything hugh does)
-the final cases are not that really interesting and the big villain aint that good to take down

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I haven't gone through DD again, but I remember losing my shit during the final case because of how absurd it was getting, but not feeling like it was overstaying it's welcome like T&T's.

Also I think Blackquil is probably the most fun prosecutor.

 

[BrickArts295]

Apollo is good but it has an excellent last case.
Dual is forgettable (I don't even remember any cases except for the dolphin one I think that one was DLC)
Spirit is great but too damn long in the last case.

I recently finished Investigations and I can finally understand the hype.

 

[giapel]

I don't know, I adore AJ.
I couldn't be bothered to finish DD, it just felt very meh. I enjoyed SoJ but it suffered from 3DS fatigue so I can't rate it very highly. Maybe a switch remaster would change my mind.

 

[Melpomene]

Can we have a shoutout for Dai Gyakuten Saiban, too, by the way? It continues to be depressing that they haven't officially localized those games yet, even if the reasons are legitimate.

 

[Mullet2000]

I think 4 & 5 are probably the weakest in the series for me.

However 6 is fantastic. Probably my second favorite game. Dai Gyakuten Saiban is way up there too. Well worth hacking your 3DS to play the translation. Eagerly awaiting the translation of Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2.

 

[Apollo]

As somebody who called AA5 fanfic-like in that thread: of course I like them. My username is named after Apollo Justice! That being said, I do dislike AA5 in particular, relative to the other games in the series. AA6 is still like a fanfic to me... but a fanfic isn't something inherently bad.

 

[Selphie]

4 is my second favourite after DGS, I'm not as big of a fan of 5 because it felt like they abandoned a lot of what I liked about 4.

 

[Lusankya]

I still love them as much as the original trilogy, and the secret best game might actual be Ace Attorney Investigations 2 (go play that fantastic fan translation).

 

[Stopdoor]

I can kind of see why someone might call them "fan-fictiony", but they still have some killer fun turnabouts in them, so whatever.

 

[BassForever]

I know, but I wanted to understand why some people feel these games dropped the ball in comparison to the original trilogy.

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It's hard to explain why people didn't like them without going into specific story spoilers, but in the most spoiler free way possible

AJ: People find Apollo to be a fairly forgettable lead, and the final case makes some really dumb choices that ends the game on a sour note. It pushes a lot of touch screen and other ds gimmicks and several of them fall flat (see case 3's video and audio level mixer).

DD: This game feels very scatter shot in why people don't like it. Some hate how Phoenix lost all his development from AJ, some like that he's back to normal. Some like Apollo being back burned for most of the game, others felt he got his spot light robbed. People also don't like the twist with the main villain at the end.

SoJ: People end up being really divided on the divination trial mechanic this game introduces. I think a lot of people didn't play the game because it came out late on the 3ds life.

AAI1: This game starts off really slow, and it feels like they're trying to get a good feel for how the mechanics and character dynamics should work.

AAI2: People who have played this game generally love it, but it's Japanese only with a fan translation so not many people have played it.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

Apollo Justice's title character gets upstaged in his own game, while Dual Destinies' writing is just tepid all around, on top of the game holding the player's hand way too tight the whole way through.

Spirit of Justice was fantastic, though.

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AJ is pretty bad. Apollo isn't even the main focus of his own game, Cases and 3 and 4 are both terrible, outside of the Phoenix portion.

Dual Destinies is just really mediocre all throughout. Too easy and the writing just isn't very good.

Spirit of Justice however, is easily one of the best in the series. They spent three games trying to figure out what to do with Apollo, but they finally delivered.

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It does feel that Spirit of Justice basically ended with them finding a way to write Apollo out of the series.

So if the series continues it's probably going to continue with Nick and/or Athena.

 

[GongagaSOLDIER]

For me AJ and SoJ are two of my absolute favourite games in the series. 2 is a low point barring the final trial. I actually really like Apollo as a character, I am a little ho-hum on Athena but I really thought it was interesting what they did with her story towards the backend of Dual Destinies - but it is another game where I wasn't hyped for a trial until the last one or two just like the second game.

 

[KhandoleezzaRice]

I've played 1-5 and while 5 is the weakest by a noticeable amount to me I still thought it was fine, I really enjoyed 4 though. Outside of a frustrating touch screen puzzle here or there I thought it was a great start. I'm looking forward to 6 since I hear from a lot of people it's quite good.

It's just that the original trilogy feels so cohesive and well-executed. The games since have struggled to be their own thing. I've enjoyed all of the games immensely, but in many ways they come across like building off of the success of the original games rather than aspiring to be their own thing, trying be something that can both stand on its own and grow into its own wonderful thing.

Apollo + DD + SOJ are all games I'm comfortable saying, "If you enjoyed the original three games, then yeah, keep going with these newer ones. They do some fun things." When really, the franchise needs a new starting point. It doesn't even need gimmicks like DD or SOJ added, it just needs to not require familiarity with a 15-year old game series that's story and character development-heavy.

Click to shrink...

I didn't play Apollo when it first came out but from what I read it sounded like any chance it had of forging its own path was lost when a lot of people reacted negatively to Phoenix's characterization. I don't know how much truth there is to that though.

 

[abrack]

My only complaint is that Spirit of Justice actually went too far with the puns/character names. I didn't think it was possible to go too far, but they did it.

 

[Starlatine]

I haven't gone through DD again, but I remember losing my shit during the final case because of how absurd it was getting, but not feeling like it was overstaying it's welcome like T&T's.

Also I think Blackquil is probably the most fun prosecutor.

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i got tired of blackquils nonsense gimmick real fast. the first 10 times the breaking chains and sword cutting stuff was amusing, but when they repeat it 100 times each case it gets annoying. but hey at least hes better than klavier

 

[bluexy]

I've played 1-5 and while 5 is the weakest by a noticeable amount to me I still thought it was fine, I really enjoyed 4 though. Outside of a frustrating touch screen puzzle here or there I thought it was a great start. I'm looking forward to 6 since I hear from a lot of people it's quite good.


I didn't play Apollo when it first came out but from what I read it sounded like any chance it had of forging its own path was lost when a lot of people reacted negatively to Phoenix's characterization. I don't know how much truth there is to that though.

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Apollo, to me, is an example of not going far enough to detach from the original trilogy. It was like Capcom knew the right thing to do was provide a fresh starting point for the sake of the franchise's future, but also felt compelled to tie heavily into the past for fans and for branding/marketing. Then Apollo's lack of success led to them rejecting the idea of a fresh start entirely and focusing even more on building off of the original stories and characters.

 

[RochHoch]

My only complaint is that Spirit of Justice actually went too far with the puns/character names. I didn't think it was possible to go too far, but they did it.

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Nonsense, there's no such thing as going too far with puns

Pees'lubn Andistan'dhin is top tier localization

 

[Homura]

T

It does feel that Spirit of Justice basically ended with them finding a way to write Apollo out of the series.

So if the series continues it's probably going to continue with Nick and/or Athena.

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Spoiler: SOJ Ending

They teased the Apollo and Trucy plot twist in the credits though

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

It's hard to explain why people didn't like them without going into specific story spoilers, but in the most spoiler free way possible

AJ: People find Apollo to be a fairly forgettable lead, and the final case makes some really dumb choices that ends the game on a sour note. It pushes a lot of touch screen and other ds gimmicks and several of them fall flat (see case 3's video and audio level mixer).

DD: This game feels very scatter shot in why people don't like it. Some hate how Phoenix lost all his development from AJ, some like that he's back to normal. Some like Apollo being back burned for most of the game, others felt he got his spot light robbed. People also don't like the twist with the main villain at the end.

SoJ: People end up being really divided on the divination trial mechanic this game introduces. I think a lot of people didn't play the game because it came out late on the 3ds life.

AAI1: This game starts off really slow, and it feels like they're trying to get a good feel for how the mechanics and character dynamics should work.

AAI2: People who have played this game generally love it, but it's Japanese only with a fan translation so not many people have played it.

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I can understand people feeling Pheonix returning back to normal in DD feels off since he is in such a different place in AJ.

I think the mysticisim of the series has always been this weird plot point that people are either for or against. I personally liked how SoJ used it over T&T because I think T&T's final case just goes on for way too long.

AAI's are the Edgeworth games right? I remember playing the 1st one, but I don't remember much of it let alone if I finished it.