Wait, in the Zelda Encyclopedia... (Majora's Mask spoilers)

[Vampirolol]

It is stated that Termina is a projection made by Skullkid using Majora's Mask:

"The combination of the Skull Kid's burdened heart and the evil magic within Majora's Mask transforms the world into the land of Termina. Termina is a parallel world with its own distinct culture, which is perhaps influenced by Majora's ancient tribe.
The four giants were spirit friends of the Skill Kid who, much like Termina itself, were created in a new form by the power of Majora's Mask.
While the hero's pure heart allows the world of Termina to momentarily revel in its salvation, as soon as he departs, that world ceases to exist"

Click to shrink...

This is fascinating but doesn't reasonate well with me. I see Termina as two things:

1 - a parallel universe, that does exist and does get saved by Link. While everything must end eventually, the hero manages to change the destiny of this land trapped in eternal doom. The land is now free.

2 - Something that shouldn't be explained.

The last one honestly should be applied to everything regarding Zelda, and maybe Nintendo. In fact, I never knew about this explanation because I never bought Hyrule Encyclopedia/Hystoria. We all know that they don't care about canon and just retcon things.
With this said, I would like to know your opinion about the Encyclopedia, its interpretation of Majora's Mask, your favorite/least favorite trivia from that book and your idea of what Termina is.

 

[Lucas M. Thomas]

Nintendo also wants you to believe that the Koopalings aren't Bowser's kids any more.

 

[Kinsei]

It's a dumb retcon. Especially since in game Skull Kid had been visiting Termina long before he took Majora's Mask. It was clearly meant to be some paralell world.

 

[lambdaupsilon]

it's a fine explanation
death of the author-ing it is also fine
the fits that some zelda fans often throw over the suggestion of there being e.g. a timeline is silly

 

[Vampirolol]

Nintendo also wants you to believe that the Koopalings aren't Bowser's kids any more.

Click to shrink...

That's another thing I choose to NOT believe.

 

[IzzyRX]

It's a retcon, honestly, I don't know why they took issue with Termina just being a paralell Hyrule.

 

[Youngfossil]

That's another thing I choose to NOT believe.

Click to shrink...

Ditto, so stupid

 

[Poppy]

that seems to not make much sense but i guess it doesnt actually matter

 

[Garrod Ran]

It's a retcon, honestly, I don't know why they took issue with Termina just being a paralell Hyrule.

Click to shrink...

how many parallel dimension hyrules are there at this point

 

[Deleted member 33533]

It's a retcon, honestly, I don't know why they took issue with Termina just being a paralell Hyrule.

Click to shrink...

Probably cause there's too many parallel Hyrules now haha

 

[FluxWaveZ]

That would lessen the impact of Link's impact on that world at the end of that story. I think saving the world of Termina and its citizens is more significant than solely the salvation of Skull Kid's psyche, so I'm not into that explanation.

 

[IzzyRX]

how many parallel dimension hyrules are there at this point

Click to shrink...

Probably cause there's too many parallel Hyrules now haha

Click to shrink...

Not that many since the 'timeline'.

 

[Berordn]

I mean unless Skull Kid permanently rewrote history somehow this doesn't make any sense.

 

[Nanashrew]

The encyclopedia is the blue book right? You'll notice something in the credits to the book unlike the others. Aonuma and other Nintendo names are not there. The encyclopedia even has things that contradict some of the things said in Historia.

 

[Vampirolol]

Also that would make Skullkid a pretty amazing game designer.

The encyclopedia is the blue book right? You'll notice something in the credits to the book unlike the others. Aonuma and other Nintendo names are not there. The encyclopedia even has things that contradict some of the things said in Historia.

Click to shrink...

Yes, that's the one. Cool to know it's a little less canon than the other.

 

[The Unsent]

If that's not in the game, it didn't happen. Termina is a world where they sealed their devil in the stone tower. It has a history and is a real place within the games. Just a parallel dimension with the lost woods like a magical forest connecting parallel worlds, like the nightmare before Christmas. See also the alternate ocean in Phantom Hourglass.

 

[Poltergust]

It's a dumb retcon. Especially since in game Skull Kid had been visiting Termina long before he took Majora's Mask. It was clearly meant to be some paralell world.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I have no idea why they would want to retcon that. Additionally, having Majora's Mask create the world doesn't explain why so many people look identical to the people of Hyrule (Tatl is supposed to be Termina's version of Navi, which is why Link initially stares at Tatl for a good while when they first speak to each other; heck, this would mean that Tatl and Tael are projections of Majora's Mask when they became friends with Skull Kid way before that mask came into the picture, which doesn't make any sense at all). A parallel world is the most logical explanation for that.

I'm just gonna ignore what the encyclopedia says on this one.

 

[Deleted member 33533]

Not that many since the 'timeline'.

Click to shrink...

Off the top of my head there's the Dark World and Lorule.

If that's not in the game, it didn't happen. Termina is a world where they sealed their devil in the stone tower. It has a history and is a real place within the games. Just a parallel dimension with the lost woods like a magical forest connecting parallel worlds, like the nightmare before Christmas. See also the alternate ocean in Phantom Hourglass.

Click to shrink...

A wizzrobe did it.

 

[eraFROMAN]

Was made up when the book was written, don't worry about it

 

[Nickgia]

All the story telling that Nintendo does outside of their games is dumb.

 

[Kain]

Nintendo just fucked up with their supposed Zelda timeline and retconned lore and now they can't back down. I don't understand the need to connect and correct everything.

Zelda lore is way better with everything just being faint references/nods to other Zelda games and all the games being not connected to each other (except direct sequels of course).

 

[KarmaCow]

It does support the dream/nightmare quality Termina after playing OoT though MM works better without an explanation.

 

[DVCY201]

The encyclopedia is the blue book right? You'll notice something in the credits to the book unlike the others. Aonuma and other Nintendo names are not there. The encyclopedia even has things that contradict some of the things said in Historia.

Click to shrink...

Oh, could've fooled me. I guess the Historia is the only 'canon' book?

 

[Deleted member 48897]

A Wind Fish did it.

Click to shrink...

c'mon

 

[The Unsent]

Yeah, I have no idea why they would want to retcon that. Additionally, having Majora's Mask create the world doesn't explain why so many people look identical to the people of Hyrule (Tatl is supposed to be Termina's version of Navi, which is why Link initially stares at Tatl for a good while when they first speak to each other; heck, this would mean that Tatl and Tael are projections of Majora's Mask when they became friends with Skull Kid way before that mask came into the picture, which doesn't make any sense at all). A parallel world is the most logical explanation for that.

I'm just gonna ignore what the encyclopedia says on this one.

Click to shrink...

Skull kid came from Termina and hangs around the lost woods, one of the crossroads between worlds. like a sad kid who spends too much time on their own.

 

[Glio]

If that's not in the game, it didn't happen. Termina is a world where they sealed their devil in the stone tower. It has a history and is a real place within the games. Just a parallel dimension with the lost woods like a magical forest connecting parallel worlds, like the nightmare before Christmas. See also the alternate ocean in Phantom Hourglass.

Click to shrink...

You may likeit more or less, but if an author says something, it is canon.

 

[DarkSora]

Nintendo also wants you to believe that the Koopalings aren't Bowser's kids any more.

Click to shrink...

Wait.....WHAT?!

 

[Poltergust]

You may likeit more or less, but if an author says something, it is canon.

Click to shrink...

According to above posts, none of the people involved in writing Majora's Mask had any input in this encyclopedia, and it sometimes contradicts Hyrule Historia, which did have such input. It might as well be fanfiction.

It's different from Miyamoto saying that the Koopalings aren't actually Bowser's kids, since that came straight from his mouth.

 

[Galactor]

Nintendo just fucked up with their supposed Zelda timeline and retconned lore and now they can't back down. I don't understand the need to connect and correct everything.

Zelda lore is way better with everything just being faint references/nods to other Zelda games and all the games being not connected to each other (except direct sequels of course).

Click to shrink...

the point of "The Legend of..." was the ambiguity and openness to interpretation of the historical facts, they didnt need to midiclorianize zelda with coherent timelines

 

[The Unsent]

You may likeit more or less, but if an author says something, it is canon.

Click to shrink...

No it didn't happen. The people of termina were saved, didn't dissapear from existence after Link left, and some stupid revision in a book doesn't change that. Also in Final Fantasy X Sin never came back after they broken the cyle, despite the stupidity of the FF X audio. The authors can say what they want but it doesn't count.

 

[Deleted member 33533]

the point of "The Legend of..." was the ambiguity and openness to interpretation of the historical facts, they didnt need to midiclorianize zelda with coherent timelines

Click to shrink...

Some Zelda games were clearly made with a timeline in mind. I think the issue was when they tried to force every game into the timeline. Like Four Swords and Link's Fashion Adventure really could've just been called spinoffs from the main timeline but they had to fit them in there.

 

[BDS]

The Zelda Encyclopedia is not canon, it was not written by the same people as Hyrule Historia.

 

[Deleted member 26156]

I read this as Termina being a place that existed in a different way, before becoming the twisted world you see in Majora's Mask due to the mask. Wouldn't change anything major really.

 

[AceDomino]

I have a "treat as canon if it feels right" policy towards information about games (or, indeed, other media) from outside the game or respective piece of media.

This doesn't, by the way, as it cheapens Termina as a setting by simply making it a projection rather than an actual place with an actual history. Of course there is kind of an allegorical quality to Termina, with the way it reflects and contrasts Hyrule in a lot of ways but I'd rather have the actual nature of that be ambiguous.

 

[The Unsent]

I read this as Termina being a place that existed in a different way, before becoming the twisted world you see in Majora's Mask due to the mask. Wouldn't change anything major really.

Click to shrink...

I think it ruins the lore, especially how dark the canyons are. It was already a world with demons. Majora seemed to be just the most dangerous.

 

[Rotobit]

I think Zelda has enough alternate dimensions for basically anything to stay "real" - this is the universe where we have the Sacred Realm, Lorule, AND the Twilight Realm co-existing. Link's Awakening's dream realm is the one exception IMO, and that was pretty masterfully woven into the overarcing story for a Game Boy game.

You could argue that death and letting go are the central themes of Majora's Mask, though, in which case Termina ceasing to be would fit the narrative, even if it's one I don't necessarily agree with (I think Majora is about not letting pessimism take hold and instead finding new hope and optimism in the face of adversity)

Nintendo also wants you to believe that the Koopalings aren't Bowser's kids any more.

Click to shrink...

I honestly prefer that, I like Bowser basically being a mob boss to the koopalings who has a heart of gold when he's with his one kid

 

[The Unsent]

I think Zelda has enough alternate dimensions for basically anything to stay "real" - this is the universe where we have the Sacred Realm, Lorule, AND the Twilight Realm co-existing. Link's Awakening's dream realm is the one exception IMO, and that was pretty masterfully woven into the overarcing story for a Game Boy game.

You could argue that death and letting go are the central themes of Majora's Mask, though, in which case Termina ceasing to be would fit the narrative, even if it's one I don't necessarily agree with (I think Majora is about not letting pessimism take hold and instead finding new hope and optimism in the face of adversity)



I honestly prefer that, I like Bowser basically being a mob boss to the koopalings who has a heart of gold when he's with his one kid

Click to shrink...

Majora isn't just about death. I would say it's more about life, 'dawn of a new day' creating a future for Kafie and Anju. This is a happy ending celebrating that life goes on, even with the deaths of the mask hosts, like the deku butler's son. It's why the theory also doesn't work that it's Link's afterlife.

You could say Wind Waker was the closest one about death, since they have to accept Hyrule fall and the king who possesses the boat, the second most important charcter, stays behind accepts his time is done. Or maybe the theme is accepting the past is over.

 

[Garrod Ran]

I honestly prefer that, I like Bowser basically being a mob boss to the koopalings who has a heart of gold when he's with his one kid

Click to shrink...

people dislike the change because it makes it such that bowser fucked less
that said, he still pretty much treats the Koopalings as his top enforcers, in the same way that Kamek is his consigliere.

 

[julia crawford]

Is the Encyclopedia different from the Historia?

 

[Lua]

The zelda timelines and explanations are a bad thing really, because it disencourages disussion and fan speculation. You could view the series as a timeline or a series of fairy tales being told separatedly or even inside some other games in the series( i always liked to imagine ocarina of time just being a legend other zelda games, just a tradition told to folk people) but with the timeline there's none of that. There's x and it happened this and this way, the end. That's boring to me.

 

[Plinkerton]

2 - Something that shouldn't be explained.

The last one honestly should be applied to everything regarding Zelda, and maybe Nintendo.

Click to shrink...

I'm on board with this so much... can we just scrap the whole Zelda timeline and overarching lore while we're at it? It's all so unnecessary.

 

[Tathanen]

This "different authors" argument for encyclopedia vs hostoria isn't necessarily a great reason for it not being canon, aonuma is listed as supervising editor for historia, "Nintendo Co., Ltd." is listed as "supervision and collaboration" for encyclopedia. (Aonuma is in the special thanks section, though.) I think it's fair to say they are endorsing its content just as much as the previous edition, I might even argue that it supersedes historia. Aonuma does not have an encyclopedic knowledge of every iota of timeline information, I'm sure this is more managed by his staff and it's entirely possible they were involved as part of the blanket "Nintendo" credited for the encyclopedia. Perhaps even correcting small clerical errors, like the placement of the oracles. Ultimately these credits don't tell us anything authoritative, though.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

the point of "The Legend of..." was the ambiguity and openness to interpretation of the historical facts, they didnt need to midiclorianize zelda with coherent timelines

Click to shrink...

Midiclorianize has been added to your dictionary. Thank you bro.

 

[SkyOdin]

Not that many since the 'timeline'.

Click to shrink...

There are quite a few, actually:

Sacred Realm (aka Dark World or Silent Realm)
Twilight Realm
Lorule
The world of the Minish
Termina
The Sea of the Ocean King

There is also a second Dark World with different properties from Four Sword Adventure. It *might* be the same as one of the above, but it might not be.

 

[NeonZ]

This "different authors" argument for encyclopedia vs hostoria isn't necessarily a great reason for it not being canon, aonuma is listed as supervising editor for historia, "Nintendo Co., Ltd." is listed as "supervision and collaboration" for encyclopedia. (Aonuma is in the special thanks section, though.) I think it's fair to say they are endorsing its content just as much as the previous edition, I might even argue that it supersedes historia. Aonuma does not have an encyclopedic knowledge of every iota of timeline information, I'm sure this is more managed by his staff and it's entirely possible they were involved as part of the blanket "Nintendo" credited for the encyclopedia. Perhaps even correcting small clerical errors, like the placement of the oracles. Ultimately these credits don't tell us anything authoritative, though.

Click to shrink...

It suggests an even smaller involvement from the primary sources though, which isn't very good, especially if you hope this material actually gets acknowledged (like we just got a Majora's Mask remake fairly close to this encyclopedia, and yet nothing was changed to indicate they were heading towards Termina never existing).

Even putting authorship aside, there's also the issue that Encyclopedia has several mistakes about the actual in-game info so at a certain point it gets hard to know if for example the clashes with Historia are deliberate retcons or just more mistakes.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Nintendo also wants you to believe that the Koopalings aren't Bowser's kids any more.

Click to shrink...

Almost as bad as every game being a stage play.

I honestly do not think Nintendo gives a single fuck about story cohesion, but it's clear that the fans did, especially of the Zelda universe. So Nintendo went in and tried to pull it all together, and more recent games either make an effort to say where they fit in, or distance themselves so much from any known event that it doesn't matter.

I like the Zelda timeline - it's an example of fans loving something more than the creator and the creator acknowledging that and canonizing that love. But Termina being an illusion is the one thing that doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

Zelda Encyclopedia is super canon breaking. Its full of errors in both its original release and further in its localisations. Its exasperating (especially since the Zelda Wiki now uses it as a source for everything).

 

[Twig]

i could've sworn that was the case in the game as well

glad i was right all along i guess

 

[Weiss]

Broke: Termina is an illusion.

Woke: Link is dead and going through the five stages of grief.

 

[Lobster Roll]

Ctrl+F "timeline"
19 results