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Wait, Anthem has no PvP, at all?
- Thread starter Metanoia Prime
- Start date
One thing that separates Anthem from Destiny and Borderlands I feel like is the nature of its ability driven combat. In some respects it makes it play a bit more like Diablo. I don't think the existence of a throwaway PvP arena like Diablo has would've necessarily caused a massive struggle over game direction, itemization, and balance... but I don't think something without any degree of labour put into it would've satisfied the audience it would've been directed at, either. I don't think there are a lot of PvP junkies who really feel like Diablo 3's paltry offering really scratches that itch.
Does the split ever draw a greater allocation of resources for the project in total? Justified by the presumable draw of the value add? Is adding a component like multiplayer usually or always a zero sum game, where the gets what it gets, and then does with it what it does with it? Or are these things to some degree budgeted and staffed based upon scope?
Considering PvP is usually the only worthwhile "end game" content in these sorts of games, it doesn't bode well that it has non whatsoever.
Lots of strange decisions with this game tbh. But I guess we can add it to the list next to having no dog fights and no enemies underwater :/
Lots of strange decisions with this game tbh. But I guess we can add it to the list next to having no dog fights and no enemies underwater :/
I don't think a standard PvP would work with the game's basic mechanics. Certainly not a bolt-on it would need to have been designed from the ground up with that in mind.
But I do think SOME form of PvP or competitive element will be needed. A dark-zone esque thing or possibly competitive PvE modes. Ultimately the problem with this game will be end game content and Destiny was so good because people used the PvP to show their stuff off. This game needs a motivation to show cool stuff off IMHO.
Also the hostility from some posters to PvP being mentioned is embarrassing. You don't need to wage some sort of war against multiplayer competitive modes...we can have all sorts of games without shutting down people's preferences!
But I do think SOME form of PvP or competitive element will be needed. A dark-zone esque thing or possibly competitive PvE modes. Ultimately the problem with this game will be end game content and Destiny was so good because people used the PvP to show their stuff off. This game needs a motivation to show cool stuff off IMHO.
Also the hostility from some posters to PvP being mentioned is embarrassing. You don't need to wage some sort of war against multiplayer competitive modes...we can have all sorts of games without shutting down people's preferences!
PVP is not the only way to lengthen the life of a looter shooter. Anthem does not need to be propped up by PVP if the content is good and the difficulties in said content keep people replaying.
It bodes well for many people interested in Anthem that Bioware is not just forcing in a PVP mode just because everyone else does.
Seriously, I don't get it. It's like these people feel like they are forced to play PVP or their console gets taken away.
Games going to be dead within a year without some sort of PVP added in. Not surprised if it's one of the first big add-ons after release.
The real problem with Destiny's pvp is not the struggle with weapon balance that screws with pve, yes that's a factor but the prevalent myth that drives the narrative that you can't have a good pvp and good pve is a lie.
Bungie fucked up their balancing by listening to the wrong crowd, having a poor infrastructure for example a lack of dedicated servers, and basic features that allowed for more freedom.
Overall I don't think Bioware would even know how to do a pvp for a game that is primarily about abilities as opposed to pure gun play. People would just spam abilities instead of using any kind of skill.
Bungie fucked up their balancing by listening to the wrong crowd, having a poor infrastructure for example a lack of dedicated servers, and basic features that allowed for more freedom.
Overall I don't think Bioware would even know how to do a pvp for a game that is primarily about abilities as opposed to pure gun play. People would just spam abilities instead of using any kind of skill.
PVE wont be affected by PVP balancing. The constant weapon and ability nerfs are extremely annoying in a game like Destiny. Not to mention, that the absence of PVP ensures there won't be Destiny-like quests that push you to the competitive side. That's the reason why I haven't been able to complete most of the exotic quests.
If PVP was completely detached from PVE, I would have no problems with it, but I don't think that's very likely.
What? Destiny is like the perfect example people dont want PVP in this game as Destiny PVP balancing messed up PVE many times.
Not really a good example given the service, loot and MP focus. It isn't like a one and done thing like in a single player game.
It is hard to do it, the closest analagoue that does attempt to do it is probably something like WoW, which also still struggles with it, frequently with long stretches of the game where certain classes and specs become irrelevant in PVP.
Except there's nothing to suggest they have the good content or level of challenge necessary to carry their end game. So as of now, I'd much rather PvP be there, than not.
But you can balance the two entirely separately - if you choose. You can have PVE and PVP separated. When you tweak damage stats for one the other remains untouched. Especially when PVP would be a post-release add on.
A bit of a self plug I suppose, but I had an idea for a PvE mode that implements a competitive aspect between two teams, similar to Gambit. It carries over the option of making life difficult for the opposing team by taking risks instead of making pure progress.
https://old.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/9znrd9/suggestion_a_potential_competitive_pve_mode/
I still stick to the idea that unless they rework the game entirely, PvP is gonna be a busted nightmare in this game. Interceptor's ultimate alone sounds like an utter nightmare.
Again, it isn't that simple. Some abilities, for instance, don't really always work that well in PVP. So say There's 12 classes, and Class X, all his abilities work well in PVP. Class Y though, maybe 4 of her abilities don't work well. Maybe they are based on shielding someone else, or have really long cast times that aren't practical in PVP. Now she's down 4 items in her toolkit, and thus Class X dominates, or at the very least, Class Y lags behind.
In this game for instance, it would seem something like the frost abilities would either need massive nerfs (because nobody likes to get the control taken away from their character) or be flat out changed to something else in PVP. Or like the combo bonuses as another example. Ranger and Storm have ones that would be useful in PVP. Interceptor and Colossus though, have ones that have AOE effects, and given this game's mobility, nobody is going to be in range to be hit by them. Similarly, take the Colossus shield. A front facing shield makes sense when everyone you're fighting AI that move slowly, but likely would not find a ton of use fighting against enemies that can easily fly around it. It also has an ability than taunts. All things that would need to be addressed.
It's not a simple matter of adjusting damage numbers, it affects the general design, and balancing both as you introduce new content is a big task.
Yup. Haven't seen Loot games not compromised by pvp, which I never gave a shit about
None of that is relevant. Yes there are challenges with making a PvP mode for this game. I agree. But my point is that you can have two separate models for things. You don't need to nerf something in PvE - you can simply change it for PvP alone.
I fully agree that its hard to see traditional PvP given the way it works - but that the argument that PvP ruins PvE balance is silly - it doesn't have to.
Yeah, I think a gambit clone mode would be the perfect middle ground.
As for the people exuding utter disgust for competitive mp, it would be nice to know if they are still playing the game 3-6 months down the line.
Yes, it doesn't have PvP and that''s a good thing, at least for now. Balacing PVP and PVE is very hard and tricky.
Because a game like this should have good strong endgame content. Often that is big raids and PVP stuff. If it only has half of it I wonder if people will still be playing and if their opinions change.
All games like that should have SEPARATE gear for PvP like WoW back in the day. Then people wouldn't react so negatively about PvP :P "Oh, it has no PvP? Thank god!", like it's some kind of bonus.
I'm not a big PvP fan but it's the thing that helps me go back to MMO-lite games like Destiny or Division, because I'm not getting new PvE content very often...
I'm not a big PvP fan but it's the thing that helps me go back to MMO-lite games like Destiny or Division, because I'm not getting new PvE content very often...
End game content doesn't have to consist of pvp. Hell I played WoW for years and never touched PvP. Never engaged with it in Destiny either.
Honestly, I'm really not a fan of PvP for the most. There's the odd exception like the TLoU or the massive 64 player matches I've had in BF but I'm actually quite happy for the devs to focus themselves on making PvE the best they can.
Destiny practically forces PvP on you for almost all exotic quest lines at the very least. Many quests have PvP forced in gsnerally. WoW has a very good delineation between PvP and PvE which is why it works.
I find the idea of PvP being the endgame really odd.
I've never treated it that way at all. I've played it if I wanted to (a la Destiny)at any stage but otherwise left it alone. I didn;t graduate to it after the other content.
Hasn't Diablo 3 done perfectly well as a PvE loot based game with only a minor PvP mode? Wasn't Warframe smashing it before their PvP mode was introduced?
I've never treated it that way at all. I've played it if I wanted to (a la Destiny)at any stage but otherwise left it alone. I didn;t graduate to it after the other content.
Hasn't Diablo 3 done perfectly well as a PvE loot based game with only a minor PvP mode? Wasn't Warframe smashing it before their PvP mode was introduced?
I'm not an advocate for PVP, nor do I have much interest in Anthem, but this is a bullshit sentence with all due respect.
You don't have to follow a game and know everything about it to be interested in it. It's not like it's been marketed very well. I didn't know this either, I just assumed it had PVP because... Shooter. People can be bummed about the game not including something specific and still find enjoyment from the rest of it. I might not have much interest in Anthem as it stands, but it could be a game that I absolutely adore. It's just that EA hasn't done anything to catch MY attention with it.
A good semi-recent example of this, for me, was Horizon Zero dawn. I heard absolutely nothing about this game, I didn't follow anything from it's development phase, from what I did see from trailers, "Meh". After it was released I saw the positive reviews, picked it up on a whim and it ended up being one of my GOTG.
I'm a PVE only player, and I've played Destiny for far longer than that.
If it anything like Mass effects 3 pve then it will be played for a long time. Im glad there is no pvp focus.
Feel like you may have missed out on half the content in that game then I'm sorry
I don't think he missed a great deal, yes, while the PVP in Destiny is a mess, it's engagement levels are really high, averaging at some 900k per night.
That's not a small number, there's a reason EA went after True Vanguard, Cammy cakes, Mr Fruit, Blessious and pretty much every destiny content creator with a hand in PvP.
I'm not sorry, since the PVE side is far more enjoyable than PVP, and most of our clan sticks to it as well. The only downsides are the unnecessary nerfs on the PVE side, and that exotic quests try to force you into PVP, which is why it's good that Anthem won't have the same.
this
PVP doesn´t have to be a hindrance in the belancing when it is separated from the PVE mode and uses specialized PVP gear or changed stats when in PVP
Which is great as they won't focus on "balancing" PvP to the detriment of the PvE experience. See Destiny nerfs versus Borderlands 2's really fun weaponry.
A little annoyed by how prevalent the "kill X enemies (or whatever) for progression bonuses" mechanic has become (and that it rears its head in Anthem).
Especially considering how BioWare seems contractually obligated to shamelessly pad all of their games to hell and back with monotonous resource collection. Also, doesn't seem like a good idea for promoting build diversity, but hopefully none of them are too ridiculous or shameless time sinks.
Especially considering how BioWare seems contractually obligated to shamelessly pad all of their games to hell and back with monotonous resource collection. Also, doesn't seem like a good idea for promoting build diversity, but hopefully none of them are too ridiculous or shameless time sinks.
This is one of the reasons I'm a little less interested. I'm going to take the dive with division 2 instead but judging by the other comments I've seen on Anthem, it isn't sounding great.
Thing that I can add off the top of my head to it is that with PVP comes relentless balancing as things get exploited or tweaked. Along with that comes relentless patches, re-balancing, oftena toxic elitist PVP community (not all but they're usually very vocal on platforms like ERA and reddit), high performance backend netcode (cost), controller/kb&m disparity, matchmaking is always an issue nowadays even when they have a large player base, developer isn't PVP centric.
If you're happy for PVP to be completely gated off from the main game, why not just play something else?
Surely they'd have to seriously restrict the flying in a PVP mode? The maps would have to be huge right? If they have to restrict that it wouldn't be what Anthem is about.
If you're happy for PVP to be completely gated off from the main game, why not just play something else?
Surely they'd have to seriously restrict the flying in a PVP mode? The maps would have to be huge right? If they have to restrict that it wouldn't be what Anthem is about.
PvP ruined Destiny, because they had to balance for both it and PvE, which made PvE boring.
Anthem can go nuts on overpowered crazy weapons and never worry about PvP balance. Best decision.
Anthem can go nuts on overpowered crazy weapons and never worry about PvP balance. Best decision.