So apparently an update on this is after the backlash they're looking into whitelisting "non malicious" mods
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You're incredibly naive and ignorant about this whole situation then.
Was being stated on the discord I frequent. May or may not be true and it's hard to check the official discord because well.....it's still a hot mess atm. 😰
For reference, the VRC discord has like 60K members, the main mod server has 50k. A huge portion of the community uses a modded client.
If they ban copyrighted content they will literally kill VRChat for a lot of people.
Also this already exists, but rather than paying the developer who has absolutely nothing to do with the content people make you pay the people who actually make the content on booth or other websites. The world payment thing is just a horrific idea.
I guess you also are saying the devs themselves are naive and ignorant because they are banning mods. Well, I believe they have some data you and I do not.
The devs know how many people use mods, thats why they made this announcement so lowkey and quick. To try to be stealthy with it and avoid backlash. Which didnt work because a lot of people use mods :)
I mean the community also has data, in a game where it's basically built on user content the community knows a lot more than you're thinking. It's been proven and found out how people crash people and it's not with mods. They've been anti-mods for years and they've made up a variety of excuses as to why they're banned when none of them have been true up until now.
People crash people with dodgy shaders, dodgy audio sources and lights and that's all uploaded with permission through their SDK. Their SDK lets that stuff into the game, it's not mods. Mods allow you to block that stuff and protect yourself from being crashed lol.
User Permanently Threadbanned: Driving Thread Derail and Trolling over Multiple Posts
I say this because your empirical experience isn't particularly representative, and that your statement lacks any of the actual nuance that has surrounded mods for years now in vrchat. Mods have had an uneasy agreement with VRChat for a while now. They were not functionally outright banned, but rather bad actors tended to be the ones banned. It has been an unspoken 'truce' for a while now, and VRChat has stated they are willing to work with modders as a path forward. This is because there has been backlash numerous times regarding mods and VRChat had settled on trying to have their cake and eat it too. This apparently is no longer the case.
This change is sudden and contrary to their indicated intentions prior. Your comments seem to lack much understanding of what's actually going on and why there's such pushback by the community.
For examples of mod usage:
Large gatherings. I guarantee you that a non-insignificant amount of users there are using avatar-hider, which simply hides avatars over a certain distance away. Pretty much essential for large gatherings (30+ users). Basic feature, not in VRChat. They've been nagged for it for years.
Full body users? High chance they are actually using IKTweaks (Granted IK 2.0 has finally (after YEARS) improved the situation, it's still worse by a considerable margin).
User laying down (you might not even know!)? Probably using ComfyVRMenu. Something basic as the main menu us UNUSABLE laying down. Known for years, never addressed by VRChat.
Nevermind face tracking, eye tracking, or haptic vests etc. All mods.
Then there's actual accessiblity mods for mutes, or hard-at-hearing users etc...
And there's also the plethora of mods that try and counter all the crashers in vrchat... which are usually just malicious assets that were uploaded since vrchat doesn't seem to do even the most cursory sanitiazion of uploads.
The irony here is that these mods are typically pretty tiny. You can see their sourcecode. Typically under 1000 lines. VRChat just doesn't care to ever fix these issues.
That's why people are mad. Simply because you do not participate or simply are completely unaware of mod users around you doesn't mean they aren't there. The people most invested in VRChat tend to be the ones most affected negatively by this decision, hence the pushback.
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This isn't the main crux of the issue. It isn't the mod that's allowing them to 'attack people' - it's the underlying code vunerabilities that the mod exploits which even with EAC will be able to be exploited. Other games have proved this, EAC never works. There's other mods (white-hat mods you might say) that fill those code vunerabilities to protect people from those malicious people. Essentially it's like banning the use of matches because someone comitted arson using one. Rather than fix the actual problems involved here they're creating way more problems overall by banning the use of QOL and good mods, many of which have been mentioned to you in this very thread.
Good job pissing of the folks keeping your game alive.
VRChat wouldn't be where it is today without these enthusiasts breathing life into it.
VRChat wouldn't be where it is today without these enthusiasts breathing life into it.
Someone explained it better but It genuinely seems like you're not informed at all about the situation, vrchat's modding scene, etc.
People have very valid reasons to be pissed because this won't actually solve the issues they're saying it will.
I'm being told this is about sex mods. That's what I wasn't understanding. Even if there was a "mod shop" where the devs could approve mods, they wouldn't approve sex mods, so the people that want sex mods need to have the game as open as the people that want... mods that can do anything.
-edit- idk, I think a solution is an official client without anticheat that can only do private worlds.
-edit- idk, I think a solution is an official client without anticheat that can only do private worlds.
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A solution is to fully embrace modding and have mods vetted for malicious content - if it's malicious it can't be run but if it's a QOL mod it's available from their website to download and install to your game completely officially.
That solves ALL issues.
Yeah. Mods have been a part of the game in a safe and commonly open sourced distributed way for the better part of 2 years.
Mods are why vrchat even bothered to do the IK 2.0 update. Mods are why the camera even got updated from its original horrible form. Mods are why the ui and avatar dynamic update even exists. It took them years to catch up but they got there...I guess.
Mods brought nearly all the innovation and invention to vrc. Almost every feature is born from them because it's what the community wanted and the community implemented them faster and better. (Most of the mod versions of official features are still superior and used).
Two+ years of innovation, community growth, and protections, all gone.
Im losing so many QOL changes. You guys get upset at a graphics bug like Cloud's door texture or less reflections in Spiderman? Imagine two years of innovation and feature development in your favorite game + social app all gone overnight.
I'm gutted. To state how bad it is: the famous "mirrors" in vrchat don't even work right in vanilla. They don't render the mirror shader at the proper resolution and look extremely blurry and distorted on any headset newer than the OG Vive or OG cv1 oculus. That's how out of date the game is.
And we are all forced back to that, urgghhhhg.
I've been asking the devs on their official feedback canny for over 2 years to fix the mirror bug. They ignored it. I turned to mods and realized how much better, safer, and enjoyable the game was.
This sucks hard. People have many rights to be upset.
Vrchat is so much bigger than regular games to many of us. This game is our fun game night and our irl pub crawl. It's so much to many of us and this just ruins many aspects of that, spits in the communities face, and calls us the liars and bad actors.
No, quest kids don't care, they can't use mods. They also aren't the ones driving the innovation for maps, avatars, all the content in the game and updates vrchat have been forced to try to parity with. They consume the content the hardcore pc community created, and as a content creator for vrc, I'm done. Many others too. Everyone is affected.
Mods are why vrchat even bothered to do the IK 2.0 update. Mods are why the camera even got updated from its original horrible form. Mods are why the ui and avatar dynamic update even exists. It took them years to catch up but they got there...I guess.
Mods brought nearly all the innovation and invention to vrc. Almost every feature is born from them because it's what the community wanted and the community implemented them faster and better. (Most of the mod versions of official features are still superior and used).
Two+ years of innovation, community growth, and protections, all gone.
Im losing so many QOL changes. You guys get upset at a graphics bug like Cloud's door texture or less reflections in Spiderman? Imagine two years of innovation and feature development in your favorite game + social app all gone overnight.
I'm gutted. To state how bad it is: the famous "mirrors" in vrchat don't even work right in vanilla. They don't render the mirror shader at the proper resolution and look extremely blurry and distorted on any headset newer than the OG Vive or OG cv1 oculus. That's how out of date the game is.
And we are all forced back to that, urgghhhhg.
I've been asking the devs on their official feedback canny for over 2 years to fix the mirror bug. They ignored it. I turned to mods and realized how much better, safer, and enjoyable the game was.
This sucks hard. People have many rights to be upset.
Vrchat is so much bigger than regular games to many of us. This game is our fun game night and our irl pub crawl. It's so much to many of us and this just ruins many aspects of that, spits in the communities face, and calls us the liars and bad actors.
No, quest kids don't care, they can't use mods. They also aren't the ones driving the innovation for maps, avatars, all the content in the game and updates vrchat have been forced to try to parity with. They consume the content the hardcore pc community created, and as a content creator for vrc, I'm done. Many others too. Everyone is affected.
If that's the true experience for most people, then yeah, vrchat is going to tank in playerbase and revenue.
Never played the game but destroying your mod scene is a guaranteed way to lose cashflow. This is like Bethesda blocking mods from Skyrim. They really need to just set up modded servers and whitelist servers with EAC.
Well said. So many people in this thread don't understand VRC and its culture, yet pretend they do
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The update should be released in about 40 minutes. (EDIT: Or not— I guess it wasn't an exact 24 hours) Really, really hope they pull the plug on it before then, but they've been silent all day, so I guess they are just going to bury their heads in the sand and ignore their playerbase.
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It's a sad day either way. A real spiteful move from them when even if the goal was platform security, they could have been transparent and open with the community and prepared for this by working with mod makers to reach near feature parity in time for EAC and client lockdown. But that would take a modicum of humility and a happy community wasn't the goal here.
Yeah, my partner and I have managed a vrchat friendgroup that has grown to ~60 people in discord at this point. Everyone's pissed off and considering other platforms like chilloutVR and the other dumpsterfire that is neosVR (quest users in the group don't get these choices unfortunately). I expect it to fragment quickly.
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Response from modders
Here's an official response from the modders:
docs.google.com
Not sure if a google doc link is allowed here. Sorry if not. It's safe though, I opened it.
Response to EAC in VRChat
docs.google.com
Not sure if a google doc link is allowed here. Sorry if not. It's safe though, I opened it.
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Looks like they've changed the timeframe for the update to sometime in the next few days.
Thanks, I threadmarked it.Here's an official response from the modders:
Response to EAC in VRChat
Not sure if a google doc link is allowed here. Sorry if not. It's safe though, I opened it.
In totally unrelated news, they put an ad for a compliance manager (focused on launching their virtual economy) 2 weeks ago:
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3153683793
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3153683793
EAC update is live; dev team shifting priorities to implement most requested features
The update is now live and out of beta.
Full message from their Discord:
Full message from their Discord:
VRChat said:
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Man, fuck this. I have no faith in them to get any of these things implemented in a timely fashion, nor do I have faith that they'll actually implement everything people used mods for without putting them behind the VRC+ paywall. I'm done playing for the foreseeable future.
On a totally unrelated note, ChilloutVR is currently experiencing its all-time peak :)
On a totally unrelated note, ChilloutVR is currently experiencing its all-time peak :)
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Looks like everyone's bombing this game on Steam.
View: https://store.steampowered.com/app/438100/VRChat/
View: https://store.steampowered.com/app/438100/VRChat/
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Yup. Here's some fun stats from a few hours ago:
View: https://twitter.com/Nymberry/status/1552115661023092736
I'm trying out ChilloutVR right now, finally got my account approved (their servers have been absolutely slammed tonight). Seems nice, though I haven't tried porting my VRChat avatars over yet.
Good luck!
Still surprised that the numbers for VR chat for players still hasn't changed.
Edit: I meant when the update came live
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Damn:
View: https://twitter.com/Thrilluwu/status/1552111619278311427
View: https://twitter.com/Thrilluwu/status/1552111619278311427
Last tweet of the night.
Chillout VR head developer reports 10,000 people tried to register at the same time, bringing down servers.
This VRChat situation isn't just a few hundred angry users.
I really hope a mass exodus continues just because of how much the devs have fucked up. Absolutely deserved.
VRChat - VRChat 2022.2.2 - The Security Update - Steam News
VRChat 2022.2.2 is now Live and includes our implementation of Easy Anti-Cheat (EAC) as well as Secure Instances. Please read more in our blog post. Since the announcement yesterday in our Discord, we’ve gotten a LOT of feedback from all of you regarding the incoming 2022.2.2 VRChat update that...
Interesting, they aren't going back on EAC.
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I haven't seen this level of misreading your community since the Tumblr mess. I can understand that they want to tighten up security, especially after getting a few bad news articles in high profile places, but EAC doesn't work. Not against anyone that really wants to do something.
I don't know what the solution is though.
I don't know what the solution is though.
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I've heard that it's relatively easy to convert content to use in ChilloutVR. I'm gonna try it out this weekend.
I don't trust the devs to actually implement much of the accessibility features from mods like they mentioned in the update. If they're only just now reprioritizing their work to focus on accessibility due to the backlash, that just tells us that they never had any intention of working on accessibility, despite many accessibility features being requested for years.
There's actually some speculation that the documentary is why this whole thing is happening. The theory goes that the devs feel like the gains from the doc will be greater than the losses from banning mods, and this way they can have EAC and no mods as the standard when a bunch of new people join.
There's actually some speculation that the documentary is why this whole thing is happening. The theory goes that the devs feel like the gains from the doc will be greater than the losses from banning mods, and this way they can have EAC and no mods as the standard when a bunch of new people join.
I've been wanting to try getting into VR again, so maybe I'll check out Chillout. I'm good as long as I can be a fox or something:3
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Oh yeah. I've seen furs share screenshots of their ported-from-VRChat avatars on Twitter; Rexouiums, etc. And the background video when logging into the game has a Hobkin in it haha