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VRAM in 2020-2024: Why 10GB is enough.
- Thread starter Darktalon
- Start date
Thank you, truly thank you, this post brought a tear to my eye and was sorely needed and appreciated.
I agree with you that 27" 1440p is a really remarkable sweet spot.
Maybe I can tempt you, with a 34" 1440p Ultrawide, which is the nearly the exact same height dimensions as the 27". :)
https://www.amazon.com/LG-34GP83A-B-Inch-Ultragear-Compatibility/dp/B08DWD38VX
For review purposes, this monitor is identical to the 34GN850-B.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/34gn850-b
You're welcome, credit where credit is due. And to assure you life forms aside angry keyboard warriors in all capital letters still exist.
(says me, the noob, who just registered here recently, with a post count of: 1 *hehe*)
Ultrawide...hmmm....tried it on several friend's systems.
Cool on first look, great while doing desktop stuff, simulations and slower stuff, but somehow not the right thing for me.
Bc i tend to get dizzy with those in longer sessions (and with fast paced shooters).
Various models, but it's not the monitors - it's just me :)
Just so perfectly comfy with the current gsync panel for fun + a vertical 24"/1080p office IPS panel beside it for work/list stuff - perfect for my needs.
+ still need to wring a lot more life&time out of that Asus ROG panel, to self-justify that ~600€ purchase :D
(says me, the noob, who just registered here recently, with a post count of: 1 *hehe*)
Ultrawide...hmmm....tried it on several friend's systems.
Cool on first look, great while doing desktop stuff, simulations and slower stuff, but somehow not the right thing for me.
Bc i tend to get dizzy with those in longer sessions (and with fast paced shooters).
Various models, but it's not the monitors - it's just me :)
Just so perfectly comfy with the current gsync panel for fun + a vertical 24"/1080p office IPS panel beside it for work/list stuff - perfect for my needs.
+ still need to wring a lot more life&time out of that Asus ROG panel, to self-justify that ~600€ purchase :D
So yeah, literally "AMD sponsored game says only AMD new card can run it correctly".
I mean, sucks for 1060 owners, but I don't think any of them expected to play this game at 4k max settings. :v
That's precisely the thing - there's almost never a combination of settings and card where you are suffering issues solely because of the VRAM, any settings that need more memory than your card has will likely also cause your framerates to be dropping under 60fps anyway.
In "defense" of AMD. And also nVidia, and basically all companies:
a) AMD trying to push, seeking coalitions and gain more marketshare - eligible, and in the end good for all.
AMD/nV push themselfes/can't sit still (intel anyone? :p) , we get more cool stuff sooner and not years later (intel anyone? :p), prices balance out, and there is no sole supremacy of one alone (which always goes tits up, mostly for those down in the foodchain - the average joe, not matter the continent or decade, no matter if a party, government or - gfx card company).
b) They - all - use marketing lingo, and easy catchphrases. What else shall they use?
If they talk like here, or like that cool dude Steve from GamersNexus - 80% of average consumers (who are not interested in anything more, than using/enjoying something) would stand there, staring with mouths open like Homer Simpson, unsure of what to do next.
If you even have to sell cars these days not with hard facts&specs, but with some emotional mini-movie where some blonde shoves the small actor kids in some SUV and dance around on the beach.
And even Rolls Royce, who don't need any commercial at all - because "you simply know", and the product does the talking for itself, does commercials.
Ya sorry, i'm too old for this sh** :D
So forgive them for the trickery - they all pump out oneliners that all are only true when put into the correct context, so basically not wrong, but just a version of the truth.
If you think about it for a moment.... no matter which economical, technological or society phenomenon....ppl simply love oneliners, and love, better: outright beg, to be deceived and lied to. To feel comfy/easy/superior/taken care of/whatever.
Ultimately, i don't think this "game uses up to 12gb vram" oneliner will scratch on nVidia's global marketshare (~60-80%) a lot.
And even if - see above, all win in the end....
Those who know better, do anyway - no matter what Mr. Leatherjacket, Ms. Su or anyone else barks out on some stage or interview..... ;-)
gozu , thanks for the roses. Forgive me errors/strange words/grammar, should it happen.
There's a lot of cold water between us, and my native tongue is Austrian (the gentle, more subtle version of German).
And yes - my colleagues in the office also love (or outright death-wish hate) my detailed replies/emails, that more often than not, drift off into J.R.R.Tolkien length or Borat2, subsequent movie-like areas... :p :D
a) AMD trying to push, seeking coalitions and gain more marketshare - eligible, and in the end good for all.
AMD/nV push themselfes/can't sit still (intel anyone? :p) , we get more cool stuff sooner and not years later (intel anyone? :p), prices balance out, and there is no sole supremacy of one alone (which always goes tits up, mostly for those down in the foodchain - the average joe, not matter the continent or decade, no matter if a party, government or - gfx card company).
b) They - all - use marketing lingo, and easy catchphrases. What else shall they use?
If they talk like here, or like that cool dude Steve from GamersNexus - 80% of average consumers (who are not interested in anything more, than using/enjoying something) would stand there, staring with mouths open like Homer Simpson, unsure of what to do next.
If you even have to sell cars these days not with hard facts&specs, but with some emotional mini-movie where some blonde shoves the small actor kids in some SUV and dance around on the beach.
And even Rolls Royce, who don't need any commercial at all - because "you simply know", and the product does the talking for itself, does commercials.
Ya sorry, i'm too old for this sh** :D
So forgive them for the trickery - they all pump out oneliners that all are only true when put into the correct context, so basically not wrong, but just a version of the truth.
If you think about it for a moment.... no matter which economical, technological or society phenomenon....ppl simply love oneliners, and love, better: outright beg, to be deceived and lied to. To feel comfy/easy/superior/taken care of/whatever.
Ultimately, i don't think this "game uses up to 12gb vram" oneliner will scratch on nVidia's global marketshare (~60-80%) a lot.
And even if - see above, all win in the end....
Those who know better, do anyway - no matter what Mr. Leatherjacket, Ms. Su or anyone else barks out on some stage or interview..... ;-)
gozu , thanks for the roses. Forgive me errors/strange words/grammar, should it happen.
There's a lot of cold water between us, and my native tongue is Austrian (the gentle, more subtle version of German).
And yes - my colleagues in the office also love (or outright death-wish hate) my detailed replies/emails, that more often than not, drift off into J.R.R.Tolkien length or Borat2, subsequent movie-like areas... :p :D
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You speak truth.
And that enormous marketshare means AAA PC games are much more likely to be optimized for nVidia's 10GB GDDR6X (less but faster VRAM) than AMD's 16GB of GDDR6.*
The GPU wars are going to get interesting now that:
1. Apple is using console-like unified SoC architecture with shared DRAM and a custom ARM CPU.
2. AMD is "cheating" by letting Zen3 and RDNA2 whisper to each other in new secret ways.
3. nVidia likely bought ARM to go towards that tighter CPU/GPU integration.
4. Intel "got serious" (for what? the 4th time now? lol) about their GPU game as well with the XE.
* Much will depend on the quality of the implementation of SSD to GPU DirectIO by AMD and nVidia. This is a brand new metric that GPUs are going to start competing on, just like DXR (Ray Tracing). Performance will depend on VRAM + DIO perf instead of just VRAM like it does now.
Fully agree. And understandable - you hang close to/with the market dominator in own interest.
For new i/o methods (and forgive me, as i'm no pro, just a well aged&informed consumer aka spoilt brat) my question/assumption is:
And Microsoft binds all those loose ends together with the DirectStorage API they already announced.
If they all lay their standard open to MS to be implemented (what i assume - you can reach the biggest audience using Win10).
Resulting (after some months of software hiccups and bug chasing) into kind of general support within the OS,
no matter if you use intel/ryzen,radeon/rtx, pcie 3 or 4 nvme etc.
And some new, unseen before in looks quality, AAA titles using that technique.
Where probably vram (and peripheral speed) matters even more than it's size.
Right?
This strange, the effect is pretty much the opposite for a couple of friends with motion sickness issues, in fact I converted them to ultra wide precisely because they were able to play more first person games without getting dizzy on my setup.
So long as the frame rate is high and FOV is properly wider it always helped them.
Nah, no motion sickness. Put me in a plane, sports/track car, rollercoaster or else, and i squeal like a happy pig.
Have good eyesight with above average fov for my age, and only 0,7 diopters in far, even less in short sight.
But too close to a screen/too big (and especially too wide) a screen - and it simply strains me too much after some time (due to constant eye/headmovement),
leading to more or less the same diziness, those with motion sickness affected feel.
So yes, the opposite, which equals "normal" i guess? ;-)
Lol, yeah I guess so. Stillness sickness :)
But not so weird, My wife is like that. no motion sickness but she can't stand video games at all, especially being close to my ultra wide.
Hehehe :) However....
As i'm married since 19 years now - i can assure you that kind of female video game aversion...has other reasons than vision or monitor size.
Those looks from her (like an MMA brute doing his promo shooting) - when you already know the DHL/UPS delivery guys by their forename (with gaming not my only hobby...)?
Godlike. And me simply replying: "hey, i dont do drugs, alcohol or cheating - but I... I'm the shopping queen here in this house.".
No AAA title running @240FPS can touch that. :D
apologies if this may have been addressed but why are you comparing the VRAM in the PS3 to the total RAM in the PS4?
Even the 8 GB 3070 card would run this, haha. Funny. I do wonder if AMD will use "marketing" more then "technology" to try and recapture share this round. Guess we'll see when reviews/benchmarks appear.
Can confirm. Aside from some minor hitches transitioning between gameplay and cutscenes, My 3080 shreds at this game, running QHD Ultrawide.
As noted in the video here, it's a god damn gpu workout, with minimal load placed on the CPU.
*insert Pikachu shocked face*
Thank you for confirming this. Just ended up being bad amd marketing.
I love it too, don't ever stop. It's very pleasant to read.
New info came to light today.
SAM is apparently just re-sizeable BAR, and is part of the pcie spec. If MB, cpu, os, and gpu all support it... It will work.
Nvidia is already testing a release updating Ampere to enable re-sizeable BAR, and thus, get the benefits of "SAM" (AMD's marketing term for it) on a zen 3 and x570/b550.
See here for more details
https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1327006795253084161?s=20
In the very next paragraph, I explained that ps4 has 5GB usable for games, which is 20x increase still.
What are you expecting me to compare? Ps3 had a split memory system, while ps4 and ps5 have a unified system...
The point of the historical analysis is that the jump from gen 7 to 8, was very different than the jump from gen 8 to 9. Even if you argue that developers used ONLY 2 GB of the RAM for the gpu (and this isn't an accurate argument), that would be an 8x jump, compared to 2.7x.
not sure what you think i was trying to imply. i was just wondering why you tried to make what seemed like an apples to oranges comparison.
My apologies, Im used to getting a lot of negative feedback on this particular topic.
Sorry but HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Marketing and all but flubbing the numbers shouldn't double the VRAM usage, like damn you had to know you were going to be proven massive false by a huge margin.
I am again reminded of the Evil Within 2 release at that sketchy flat we all used to hang around in.
3080 redeemed :p
I'll be honest after that godfall vram thread came out I was starting to get worried, but this is good news. Hope I can hold onto this card for at least 2 years and game in peace.
I'll be honest after that godfall vram thread came out I was starting to get worried, but this is good news. Hope I can hold onto this card for at least 2 years and game in peace.
Godfall Benchmark Test & Performance Analysis
Godfall is one of the launch titles for Sony's PlayStation 5 to show off the new platform's raytracing capabilities. We took a closer look at the PC port of the game and tested it with a wide selection of graphics cards from both AMD and NVIDIA, using Full HD, 1440p, and 4K.
Judging from benchmarks, the game doesn't even need 8GB for 4K at the moment.
Saturation with VRAM will do that. It's mild here though... in some productivity tools you can look at 300% improvement.
edited: thought i was in the 3080 megathread ahaha, all had been said here already.
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This whole renderer gives weird results and that's not at all surprising when someone is trying to prove a point artificially.
This makes me wonder if we'll even have 4k/60 cards next year (Other than at a $1500 price point). Hopefully this kind of performance isn't indicative of what we can expect from "next gen" games.
Link? I don't see anything mentioned in the 3080 megathread.
I'm curious about why the 3090 has such a large advantage when the only difference between it and the 3080 is more CUDA cores and VRAM.
You should have come much earlier with that, there are so many pages now it's unfindable... it was an outlier tool that simply didn't use the GPU when the project couldn't fit in it... so very extreme scenario, with a tool that works much better on cuda cores than on cpu.
I don't remember one bit what it was. Creo perhaps ? don't remember (i have no need to since i have a 3090). Or maybe an offline renderer not offering a mix mode.
At equal frequency and power consumption, with no vram exhaustion, the max attainable should be 20.6%. The reality is less than that because of internal bandwidth problems, and the slight boost clock disadvantage stock 3090 has even though silicon lottery comes put randomness in there.
In games, when exhausted, sadly pcie is too slow for emergency needs that would be seamless, so i guess it does the most urgent rather than reorganizing properly (loading pause), so stutters when you move for a little bit until framerate is back to stable speed.
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Godfall PC Performance Review and Optimisation Guide - OC3D
Godfall – An Introduction into the next generation Godfall is one of the first truly next-generation game to hit the PC marketplace, launching exclusively on next-generation platforms. On consoles, the game is not held back by PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, launching as a timed exclusive on Sony’s...
Godfall PC Performance Review and Optimisation Guide - OC3D
Godfall – An Introduction into the next generation Godfall is one of the first truly next-generation game to hit the PC marketplace, launching exclusively on next-generation platforms. On consoles, the game is not held back by PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, launching as a timed exclusive on Sony’s...www.overclock3d.net
If this numbers are accurate (there's gonna be a lot of variability throughout different levels), then the 12gb VRAM claim is not wrong.
Raytracing update is gonna easily add 1.5-2gb of VRAM on top so you want 12 gb of VRAM to be comfortable.
That said, I doubt having 10 or 8 gb is gonna cause a massive drop in performance, most likely will just means those cards will underperform a bit compared to their theoretical maximum perf if they weren't VRAM constrained.
I wonder if the prices for these 20GB vram cards will ever be reasonable or if their low supply and focus on yearly refreshes means that the only way to get them for cheap is to buy used. At this point, while I'd like to upgrade my PC, the pricing is just too bonkers.
I don't know what their methodology was, but Godfall does not require more than 5GB of VRAM at 2560x1440 on Epic Settings. We are talking about the dedicated VRAM allocation, not the total VRAM allocation (so if they had programs running in the background, then that would explain their results). You can clearly see that the dedicated VRAM usage is between 4-5GB in these screenshots (which are also from an RTX2080Ti like the one they used, so something is definitely wrong with their results).
https://www.dsogaming.com/pc-performance-analyses/godfall-pc-performance-analysis/
https://www.dsogaming.com/pc-performance-analyses/godfall-pc-performance-analysis/
I doubt that it will add as much in this case. But yeah, it will probably go above 10GB in 4K, if only by some megabytes.
Remains to be seen what this will mean for performance though.
Also how did they get those numbers? Through MSI Afterburner? Not very accurate then for actual VRAM usage.
It seems likely given that in their benchmarks even 6GB cards, like the 1060 & 1660S, don't seem to perform worse than equivalent higher VRAM cards: 1060 matches a 580 even at 1440p & 1660S is more or less on par with a 1070 at every resolution.
The only potential sign of VRAM issues I could find in their performance benchmark is that the 2060 has worse 1%s than equivelant higher VRAM cards at 4K, like the 1080. The 2060 has less ROPs than the 1080 though so that's another potential explanation but I have no idea how a ROP bottleneck would show itself in performance numbers.
as someone who doesn't udnerstand PC very much, I appreciate you making this thread.
It cleared the myth of the need for big VRAM ammounts to play at 4k; and that will help when i'll be purchasing my next GPU in a year or 2.
THank you.
More allocation numbers.
Godfall PC Performance Review and Optimisation Guide - OC3D
Godfall – An Introduction into the next generation Godfall is one of the first truly next-generation game to hit the PC marketplace, launching exclusively on next-generation platforms. On consoles, the game is not held back by PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, launching as a timed exclusive on Sony’s...
Tech sites seriously need to get with the times, this is becoming actively annoying.