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RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,102
As others have said, modern parenting is kinda fucking crazy. You get bombarded with best practices and told your baby might die if you don't do some of them and judged to hell and back by a lot of people. Meanwhile it's easy to feel alone and confused. The people around you that you consult were told different things. Your pediatrician says one thing and in your desperation to make that work you talk to a friend and their pediatrician says something completely different. And then there's the fact that the shit my parents did is now labeled ridiculously dangerous. Like literally every problem we have and consult them has a solution not recommended today or completely out of the question. And even the same parents get recommended something different with children barely 3 or 4 years apart.

So you fall back on gut instinct or even follow a friend or a parent on something that is "dangerous" and think well I turned out fine. And that works for some things but for others like vaccines it doesn't. But we've escalated everything to "it'll kill your child" level so it's kinda understandable once that dam opens up its easy to shove some other bullshit through. And at the same time you're wary of everything and don't want to take the chance, so it's a weird tightrope of shit.

And it doesn't help that people really fucking suck at statistics and probability, etc. Of course the concept of herd immunity will go over people's heads.

We need a web vaccine to stop Mom bloggers. Scourge of society.

I think if we got moms the help and support they need then they wouldn't need mom bloggers as much.
 
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QuantumZebra

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,304
"Some insist their children's immune systems would benefit from contracting the illness."

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"Vaccines are just part of the virus anyway right?"
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,975
Ugh

Finally, parents who refuse vaccines are most likely to be white and college-educated, and to have a higher-than-average family income. I believe their decisions are less about how informed they are and more about the culture of what I term individualist parenting — one that insists parents are personally responsible for their own children, but not other children. Individualist parenting has encouraged mothers to trust their own judgment more than that of experts and believe they can manage their way out of disease risk, even as their choices present risk to others.

Just because they're college educated doesn't mean they have a science degree.

I don't believe the thesis of this article because if they're arguing that women are not vaccinating their kids because of the growing pressure of being responsible for their kids, there's nothing about that explains why women happily vaccinated their kids 40 years ago and yet even moreso were compressed into the gender role of being responsible for the raising of children.

No, today people are just fucking stupid, science illiterate, and completely oblivious of what the world without vaccines looked like 50-100 years ago. They don't know what it was like to commonly say goodbye to family members before they turned 18 from horrific diseases that just seemed to "happen." They don't know what it was like to have classmates in crutches from polio, if they even survived polio. Fuck these parents, fuck their ignorance. When presented with evidence, they're too science illiterate to believe or understand it. They can't be reasoned with at this point. They are dangers to society and complicit in bioterrorism. There needs to be urgent legislation that punishes anti-vaxxism. Period. That's the only thing that the US can do: quickly enact sweeping legislation while the majority still believes in vaccine efficacy before they become the minority.
 

remiri

Member
Nov 1, 2017
482
Any vaccinated person who contracts measles or any other virus they have been vaccinated for should sue the state for allowing it to happen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
More than anything it reminds me of the thesis that this video puts forward on the thinking behind the Flat Earth conspiracy:



In short people feel alienated from and distrustful of the society they live in and turn towards fringe, culty movements like this. It doesn't help that there are very real issues with the pharmaceutical industry that make "alternative" solutions appealing to people. Unfortunately the anti-vax movement is far more harmful than a bunch of weirdos believing in a flat Earth. We need legislation on it.
 
I mean I hear everything you are saying, but in regards to vaccines, doctors have been pretty united behind getting vaccines haven't they?

But doctors also give you conflicting advice on everything else, and you are bombarded constantly from the moment you give birth with deadly parenting pitfalls x1000 (many of which are contradicted by the same professionals depending on where you go), and what you end up with is a mix of confusion and fear of everything and anything that can harm your kid as well as having no clear idea what's 'best'. That's why you have moms polling each other and their parents with almost as much weight as doctors. And this incessant internet searching for answers.

I think that in such a culture of oversaturation of information, fear of doing anything wrong because everything keeps getting overuled from year to year (Swaddle! Don't swaddle! Cosleep! Don't cosleep! Put them on their bellies in the crib! Don't put them on their bellies!), and scrutiny/judging from everybody and their mother on your parenting that a lot of moms are distrustful of 'official' information and are honestly trying to do what' they think is 'best' for their kids. I'm not saying I agree, and I think we've plenty of hard proof that vaccines are best, but that's the way it is right now.

I think if we got moms the help and support they need then they wouldn't need mom bloggers as much.

Thank you. It is seriously the most grindy, frustrating, and seemingly also underappreciated work I have ever seen/experienced. If you also want/have (had?) a career it can be very demoralizing/unfulfilling. 'Mommy Bloggers' are doing it to keep sane, offer other moms help/support, and feel like they have something else to offer besides wiping peanut butter off the walls for the millionth time. More power to them.
 
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Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I'm not a parent, but the sentiment expressed here a few times about being bombarded with information and how recommendations keep changing etc -- why the hell are you overthinking all this shit? Like, make sure the kid's basic needs are met, and that they're vaccinated, and I'm confident they'll turn out fine like every generation before them. I almost view it like dieting fads with how often something "good for you" ends up being awful for you a few years later depending on who you ask. Just use your own life experience as a guide along with common sense and filter out the rest.

I was vaccinated, ate normal foods, played outside & video games equally, and i'm sitting here at 31 healthy and fine (though I should eat better). I think all the overthinking in parenting has created a cottage industry to separate new parents from their money by exploiting their uncertainty. Mix that with greater society and how people like to be judgemental gossipy assholes, feeding that pressure to make the "right decision" and here we are.
I agree with what you're saying, and it's true. Some parenting advice I've seen online specifically tries to tell parents to calm the fuck down about everything.

It's easy to glance at someone else's kid and go "he looks fine to me", but speaking from my own experience, it's surprisingly easy to psych yourself out about things when it's your own kid. When your kid is first born, you spend a lot of time just doing nothing but watching your kid by yourself.

And when you spend week after week where it's just you, a kid who can't communicate yet, and your phone full of people talking about how your kid "should be doing this at this age" or "should never be around this or that", it becomes easy to start second-guessing yourself. You start to wonder if you're doing something wrong or if you're missing something, and that's when your mind can start going off the rails if you don't have sensible people around you who can keep your fears in check.

Some parents clearly trust or talk to the wrong people, and that's when they get on the crazy train. It's a very vulnerable period of time for a parent mentally, and many news sources, bloggers, and so on prey on that anxiety to feed them garbage in order to get clicks.

I mean I hear everything you are saying, but in regards to vaccines, doctors have been pretty united behind getting vaccines haven't they?
Yes, that's been unanimous. But general distrust in the "system" these days for various reasons has also extended to distrusting official statements, which unfortunately includes doctors.

I agree that antivax mentality is fucking stupid and dangerous, but I think it's important to figure out how it got there, and I think the growing distrust in authority figures and the government has a lot to do with it.

Overall, it seems like a perfect storm. Everything from narcissistic parenting culture, to internet disinformation campaigns, to government corruption, and the selfishness of the entitled upper middle class society.
It really is the perfect storm. It's easy to write people off as idiots, but I don't think that's the actual issue.

I think the root of the problem is that people are supposed to trust official sources, but rampant corruption is providing a rapidly growing number of very good reasons why they shouldn't.

When the current US administration does things like appoint people like Devos to head the ministry of education and puts a guy who works for the corn industry in charge of making the next official food guide, then I think it's understandable why people are losing their trust in what their government tells them to do.

Take the whole "fuck the police" mentality that's prevalent here. The police is supposed to be an official government organization that you're supposed to trust in a working society. But when there are so many stories about the corruption going on there, then people understandably stop trusting them to help, and instead turn to their own devices.

Health care unfortunately falls into the same boat. For every story about how you should trust your doctor, there are other news stories that talk about crooked doctors taking bribes to prescribe more drugs. Trust medical research? There are stories about pharma companies funding research to get results that they want. Trust your health care system? But there are pharma companies raising prices and flagrantly showing that they don't give a flying fuck about you.

None of these things SHOULD dismiss all doctors and the entire field of medicine, but it certainly erodes a lot of faith in it. And with enough erosion of that faith, bad news and bad experiences, once again it starts to make sense when someone begins to trust themselves more than they trust official sources. And it's a shame, because of course most doctors mean well and are trying their best to make statements and recommendations that are in your best interests. But there are also enough selfish assholes out there doing the opposite, and from an outside perspective, that can be enough to make people not trust doctors at all.

Finally, the word "expert" has no real meaning anymore because every media company, blogger, and so on calls fucking any yahoo they bring on screen an "expert". So when someone says "expert opinion", you have no idea if you're listening to an actual doctor or just some fuckwad who calls himself one because he read a few Wikipedia pages.
 

joedick

Member
Mar 19, 2018
1,382
Huh.

Do we curb the death from all the Reconstruction era diseases making their rounds on the comeback tour? Or do we coddle these folks because feelings?
Because it's going to take children dying of and being crippled by polio to convince these idiots, if anything can. No amount of coddling changes an anti-vaxxer's mind.

My post wasn't about coddling anti-vaxxers, my point is that we, as a society, should do more about the issue than laughing at anti-vaxxers then walking away. I'm not defending anti-vax, I think those people are causing great harm. We need to change their views and also try to fix the problems that lead to this mindset (some of which are noted in the article and this thread). Unfortunately, most people are in this just to have someone to look down on, and that isn't really accomplishing anything, other than giving people a sense of superiority for doing something they should be doing.
 

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
I'm not a parent, but the sentiment expressed here a few times about being bombarded with information and how recommendations keep changing etc -- why the hell are you overthinking all this shit? Like, make sure the kid's basic needs are met, and that they're vaccinated, and I'm confident they'll turn out fine like every generation before them. I almost view it like dieting fads with how often something "good for you" ends up being awful for you a few years later depending on who you ask. Just use your own life experience as a guide along with common sense and filter out the rest.

I was vaccinated, ate normal foods, played outside & video games equally, and i'm sitting here at 31 healthy and fine (though I should eat better). I think all the overthinking in parenting has created a cottage industry to separate new parents from their money by exploiting their uncertainty. Mix that with greater society and how people like to be judgemental gossipy assholes, feeding that pressure to make the "right decision" and here we are.
Let me tell you about SIDS--short for Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. See if you can guess what that entails!

But here's the thing: no one knows exactly why it happens. They know that it has to do with suffocation, though. So tell me: what's the best practice for avoiding this for an infant? Do you have them sleep face up or down? On a flat surface or not? With pillows and blankets or no? With your baby swaddled and arms restrained or not? Ask your doctor, right? Sure, but here's the thing: this is one example where recommendations have shifted over the years--sometimes to the polar opposite of what it was just recently.

And that is just one of the things where that's happened that new parents need to consider. How about introducing allergens like peanuts? You know how deadly serious that allergy can be, so is the best way to prevent it to introduce peanuts early or later? What if you heard on last week's Freakonomics episode that the "latest" data show early is better? How recent is that interview? How do you know whether that's consensus amongst medical professionals?

I'm not going to kid shame you because having kids is a choice, but as a non-parent, you really don't understand. The world isn't as simple as you may think.