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Voting | ContraPoints
- Thread starter RastaMentality
- Start date
I thought this video was overall excellent, and summarized a lot of counters to arguments I've been hearing from people who are either on the fence about voting or have decided that both candidates are "just as bad" or whatever. The problem now is trying to get the people who need to hear this message the most to actually watch this.
I don't know, she made good points, but I feel like she also made things way too easy for herself by making the socialist into such a ridiculous strawman
I mean, I agree with the overall point, but this made the video not feel very persuasive to me
I mean, I agree with the overall point, but this made the video not feel very persuasive to me
Isn't that character of Tabby shitting on the far left? Or am I missing something.
The twitter thread Kalem posted sums it up well.
I'd given Contra a lot of slack in the past but she can eat shit for this.
Edit: nevermind. I did the bare minimum work to actually read the twitter thread.
Okay I'm a dumb dumb, why is the "she/they" thing specifically a problem? I read the thread and understand Tabby's history as a harmful caricature of trans people (and leftists), but is it that now this character is identifying as "/they" as well? That they're not just identifying as "she"?
Edit: Other posters have explained to me, no need to quote, thank you.
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Read the whole twitter thread and I don't understand why this is problematic? Can you explain further?
User Banned (2 Months): Concern trolling; history of dismissive posts in sensitive threads
Also, why is the person in the thread saying everyone should be pro-rioting? That's ridiculous. We don't have to be pro property damage. Kind of proves how ridiculous and out of touch this 0.1% is.
I love ContraPoints but I don't agree that voting is uncool. Voting is super cool! Always happy to vote
Long-time lurker here, but after reading that thread I don't really see how this specific instance is enbyphobic? I'm guessing that Anthony is pointing this out because they also go by they/she, and if I remember correctly one of their tweets was used in a previous Natalie video, and because she didn't censor the avatar (which she should have, it was careless at best) this person was harassed. If they think Tabby's pronouns were changed as a dig at them, I think that is a super-far reach.
It seems Contra wanted to make a leftist and now enby caricature (which is the main problem in itself) so it's funny how more people sympathise with Tabby than the more centrist seeming Contra especially in this climate.
Because of Natalie's history of antagonizing non-binary people which use "they/them" as pronouns, as I do.
Completely healthy and fun that she keeps layering Tabitha's character with all the criticisms levied at her when she started (supposedly) as a self-reflection of her more radical self.
Read above, but also relevant is that Anthony blocked Contrapoints years ago, and Natalie used an alt account to block-evade and find some of their critical twits of her to use in her "Cancelling" video, so Contra has some history of stalking/harassing them
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For context Tabby is supposed to fully return with the follow up to Nat's last video ,Justice. "Voting" is just meant to be a PSA to get her subs to vote that was supposed to be only 4 minutes at first.
If I feel bad seeing how constantly Contrapoints/Natalie keeps messing up with non-binary folks, and tired of giving her chances, I can't imagine how shattered enby folks must feel that a big public figure once seen to be a positive role model for the trans community has now fallen to be a problematic figure who now punches down.
Tabitha as a character is meant to be a derisive paody of the left. You don't see why giving her they pronouns while simultaneously consistently fucking up regarding enbies is a bad thing?
Rioting is a tool of the oppressed. To be "pro-riot" does not mean you are, at a moment's notice, waiting to burn some shit down. It means you are for the use of rioting as a communication tool and as a form of expression for the marginalized/oppressed. I could not give one less of a shit about some buildings if it means people get the justice and equality they deserve.
Okay so it's yet another quality she's adding to the caricature. Thank you for helping me understand.
I didn't put it together that way because my first reaction was that adding "/they" to a Twitter bio was just a thing people did, but I see now how she's using at as yet another way to try and make a mockery of that type of person.
As someone who is nonbinary and had ContraPoints as a huge role model for coming to terms with that, I don't really feel the same way others do about this. Of course, that's only me.
My main personal criticism of Contra is that in the Cringe video she came across as a lot more mean spirited than I expected, which is a shame. I am not a fan of indulging in cringing at others or mocking anybody.
The author explains more if you follow the thread, but essentially, Tabby was supposed to be a representation of the left in her Socratic dialogues.
One of earlier criticisms Contra took was in "The Aesthetic", where she is essentially bullied by the Justine character, who many see as a representation of the creator herself, for failing to perform femininity sufficiently. Of course, later on, Contra gets "canceled" because she said didn't like being asked for her pronouns (among other things, such as her lack of condemnation for Buck Angel). If I recall correctly, during "Canceled" she (poorly) masks the Tweets that criticized her, and if I recall correctly, the tweet author (who uses she/they) is one of them. During "Cringe", she explicitly mocks trans and nonbinary folks who sport customized anime profile pics because it seemed to her infantile. It was also during this time she essentially puts a video of a trans woman in Gamestop as being cringy for loudly demanding that employees respect her pronouns. So it was evident by then that Contra has an issue with this sort of internalized transphobia and trans gatekeeping, even if she never explicitly calls it as such.
The flanderization of the Tabby character here is sort of the culmination of all these things: suddenly, Tabby, who until now we've assumed is a binary trans woman, is suddenly sporting she/they pronouns with an anime profile pic spouting off straw man leftist arguments. I wouldn't mind the criticism of the left so much here if she didn't tie the identities of enbies or vulnerable trans-folks-who-want-to-live out-their-repressed-childhoods on top of that.
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At the end of the day, property damage especially of buildings that are owned by big companies with failsafes, is a small risk to pay to fight for the rights of marginalised people. Even small shops understand the sacrifice, and the community does often help rebuild the local businesses that were caught in the chaotic mix.
User Banned (1 month, permanent thread ban) Dismissing concerns of bigotry as hunting for reasons to be offended and antagonistic behaviour across multiple posts in a sensitive thread
An excellent video by natalie as always. I agree with the sentiment that the people who should see it the most probably never will.
Also, just an observation, but must there always be a hunt for a reason to be offended? Just accept this contribution to the discussion for what it is. Well researched, honest, realistic and frankly very entertaining.
Voting is important. Now more than ever. Even if the candidates are less appealing than ever.
Also, just an observation, but must there always be a hunt for a reason to be offended? Just accept this contribution to the discussion for what it is. Well researched, honest, realistic and frankly very entertaining.
Voting is important. Now more than ever. Even if the candidates are less appealing than ever.
Good fucking god Contrapoints really can't stop with her shit can't she?
it's not much of a hunt when Natalie has a clear repeated pattern of behavior.
saying this as someone who agrees with much of what she is saying in this video and others. she just can't seem to help herself. it's worth scrutiny every time.
Is it really a hunt if it's right in the video? She knows what she is doing.
Ah yes, shitting on me for what I believe in and nonbinary people will really get me out to go and vote for whatever decrepit idiot you like.
I legitimately cannot make it 2 minutes into a video entirely about voting without a dig at enbies that has no reason to exist on a god damn video about voting. It's just gratuitous, completely unwarranted. I understand the topic at hand is important, but so is holding her accountable.
Hmm, right I forgot about Natalie using an alt-account. That would suggest she is more aware and potentially more fixated on Anthony than I thought, but I'm also not completely convinced this is where she is coming from with this change. As others have pointed out Tabby is coming back in a bigger way in her next video, so I will reserve judgement until I see how the character is portrayed there.
But I also haven't seen the OP vid yet, so I'll shut up until I watch it.
The "ridiculous strawman" seemed pretty subdued compared to some of the stuff I regularly see on leftist Twitter. All her points are extremely on target, especially the part about the tiny, tiny group of leftists somehow magically expecting to "end capitalism" and spark some kind of vague planet-changing-yet-somehow-bloodless revolution. Real change is incremental and takes a long time, and none of us will see any definitive end to capitalism in our lifetimes. That's a multi-century process.
Another well-made video and I agree with her. I'm not a fan of Biden by any means, but change is incremental and a Biden administration will help us get to that change rather than another 4 years of Trump. We are not in a position to get picky.
I know people have already asked, and I don't want to downplay what has already been given, but does anyone have more context for Contrapoints being enbyphobic? What I've seen is bad, but it could be attributed to her going after Anthony personally as opposed to the enby community in general, specifically not fully anonymizing her tweets and creating an alt account to get around the blocking. That's not a great look for Contrapoints in either scenario, but one is being petty and the other is being an enbyphobe. Though to be fair, she could also be personally attacking Anthony and enbyphobe, so not great either way.
Must there always be a man who can't make a comment without dismissing concerns non-binary members have, about how one of the most prominent people on YT - who cisgender people go to to inform themselves about trans and non-binary topics - represents them?
It's not a hunt if the prey keeps running up to you like an idiot.
I fully understand all of the criticism thrown at Nat here, all good points. The only thing that i honestly don't agree with is the claim that Tabby is meant to be seen in a bad light. I feel a different vibe in how Nat interacts with Tabby, vs how she interacts with Tiffany (the Blair White stand in). I do fully agree that she is meant to be a rep to all the criticism directed at her though.
I do feel bad for the folks she seems to be purposefully offending. It would be nice if she could make her points without doing so because the conversation shifts to that instead of the actual content.
However, I think the majority audience for the video won't see the connection and will take it for what it is. She uses a character to bring up arguments we all see everyday, everywhere and she counterpoints them very well.
This video is better than most of her recent works. I enjoyed it.
However, I think the majority audience for the video won't see the connection and will take it for what it is. She uses a character to bring up arguments we all see everyday, everywhere and she counterpoints them very well.
This video is better than most of her recent works. I enjoyed it.
I disagree that small, Incremental changes are what real change looks like because to me they are getting at the symptoms compared to radical changes that get to the root cause of the problem. Incremental change sounds comfortable to accept for centrists and liberals because the powerful stay powerful for a while, Of course it would be a multi-century process if we are relying on incremental changes that can be loopholed out of for the major players, and bring laws to reduce those regulations. But also, expectations can be more realistic, like one person won't bring out the big changes, and it won't be one election, so the fight has to keep on going and hope shouldn't be lost after the first step back.
The point I most appreciated (and one that probably will be quickly lost) is piece about ideation vs. intent.
There's a lot of denial about this, which really poisons many attempts to have a productive conversation about how we can all collectively move forward to a better future for everyone. Lots of us would love to Eat the Rich--none of us are actually gonna Eat the Rich.
There's a lot of denial about this, which really poisons many attempts to have a productive conversation about how we can all collectively move forward to a better future for everyone. Lots of us would love to Eat the Rich--none of us are actually gonna Eat the Rich.
Right wing? Pardon me but that's a little presumptuous. I just fail to see where the attack is coming from. Anyways I can read the room and will take my leave of the thread. Thanks for posting the vid op, it was great 🙂
Real change is incremental? I'm sorry but that's pure conservative centrist bollocks. Historically all revolutionary movements in society happened in breakthrough points that forced real change, and then they incrementally settled in a new status quo. If we want to end capitalism we just need enough people with the will to do so, no need to wait or do incremental steps for no reason.