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Steam and Valve aren't entitled to have everything and only praises either
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Vlambeer co-founder Rami Ismail says "sucks to be you" and "you got out businessed" to Valve over EGS exclusives
- Thread starter ditusjack
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Steam and Valve aren't entitled to have everything and only praises either
You murdered that strawman, great job.
Valve hasn't done it because they'd never have to do it, they're basically the Walmart of game launchers.
No?
Nuclear Throne is 30fps capped for seemingly no reason. Really don't trust a dev that isn't capable of coding a game and not tying shit to the framerate.
What aspect of my post comes across as satirical?
Who's Rami and Nuclear Throne anyways? On the other hand, if he feels that way he's alright to express that opinion. I don't mind the tone.
Tell me, what is wrong with Big Picture, Steam Link, Messaging and the profiles?
You're making the assumption that:
1. All indies are popular on Switch (untrue)
2. All indies are unpopular on Steam (untrue)
3. As much indies are releasing on both platforms (untrue)
Maybe that's where the audience was? Having algorithm feature your game at the expense of others does not guarantee it will sell.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/sl...llion-copies-43-of-it-came-from-china.106387/
Chinese parents made more than 1m sales just in China.
Dawn of Men is selling well.
Money hatting isn't the only option open to Valve here.
The most damning thing Rami talks about is Valve's terrible system for curation, something they've had their heels driven in the sand about while simultaneously making any actual movement on it a user based responsibility.
That being said, the amount of significant change that Steam has undergone in the last 6 months has been promising and I look forward to more in the future.
Valve refusing to do business with a partner who was flippant about getting a better deal from the competition doesn't sound like a great idea either.
Sure, is way possible that Steam algorithms did hurt a lot of small developers. But I'm sure is just part of the reasons and not the single reason for that.
Also:
LOL
Is not like EGS won't rely on algorithms or that their highly curated store won't left many indie devs behind, just like it was on Steam before they opened the doors....
Also:
LOL
Is not like EGS won't rely on algorithms or that their highly curated store won't left many indie devs behind, just like it was on Steam before they opened the doors....
Nah, obviously me, some random gamer, knows better about what indie devs experience than this guy who has experience selling games on Steam and meets up with indie devs all the time, as well as all other indie devs who have spoken out about problems with Steam's algorithms.
My main issue with his "but discoverability!" argument is that the kinds of indie devs who would benefit from that discoverability are not the ones who will be getting these fancy deals from Epic Games. Vlambeer, Supergiant, Thatgamecompany, etc aren't 'up-and-coming' indie developers, they're well-established names who have had previous successes due to help from massive companies. In terms of indie developers they're the lucky ones, and the 'unlucky' ones don't have the name appeal or prior library to ever get a chance of being money-hatted by Epic.
Essentially I see the "Epic Games Store" solution to this problem to be a relatively selfish one instead of one that actually aims to help the 'next generation' of indies. You're going from "indie games fail due to not having good curation on Steam," to "indie games fail due to not having enough clout to get on EGS," and, overall, nothing really changes.
Essentially I see the "Epic Games Store" solution to this problem to be a relatively selfish one instead of one that actually aims to help the 'next generation' of indies. You're going from "indie games fail due to not having good curation on Steam," to "indie games fail due to not having enough clout to get on EGS," and, overall, nothing really changes.
None of that matters if discoverability is fucked to the point that an indie dev's games have no chance of selling on Steam.
In general I find the complaining about EGS to be a bit over the top. It's just a launcher, you don't have to spend hundreds to play these games, you just have to download another launcher. I do see how it can seem underhanded, but I don't see how it's any worse than EA, Ubisoft, MS or anyone else keeping their games confined to their stores, except Epic doesn't really have much to leverage, so instead they buy exclusivity that isn't even permanent. I hear that the launcher gets data from you too, but that again doesn't really seem to different from what any other app is doing these days. I can't really blame devs for being all on board with all this. Steam's been taking a big cut for years for.... Basically nothing. These days you can stay better connected with your gaming friends through Discord, and achievements on Steam have always been a joke so really all they're providing is a storefront.
Right about what?
He says indie devs got wiped out from Steam due to an algorithm change. Which devs were these? I'm seeing a shit ton of new successful indie games on Steam. Where are these indie games on EGS? How successful are they beyond the initial bag of money Epic gave them?
Do they make games that don't sell well though? Their last game was Nuclear Throne, and it sold a shit ton of copies on Steam.
There's no doubt this wouldn't be happening if Valve hadn't left the opening by not responding to developer and consumer criticism.
Game was overlooked by people like you that doesn't play games on PC and this forum is full of "those". Go figure.
Edit: I wasn't being snarky with "those", but just saying that this forum has a console-centric userbase.
Sure. Like this dev here with his great gem:
You also have other devs here that disagree with it like chubigans or devs from Larian.
What if that game is just shit though?
Why should the 214124 mediocre Metroidvania sell 200.000k?
And how come Dawn of Men or Chinese parents (sold 1m) get discovered with just discovery tools?
Or Slay the Spire that became a hit quickly after release.
That matters, if it was a reply to a comment that Steam has seen little innovation over the last 10 years.
That's a sweeping statement if ever I saw one. Are you a developer yourself?
Uh, Vlambeer has been impacted saleswise ?
No, Nuclear Throne is a success. I'm talking about the ones not selling well and putting the blame on that.
Ok? People should buy anything now?
I can't think of one truly amazing indie that didn't get the shine it deserved until it hit another platform 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔. Help me out.
Indies should make better games if they have problems being discovered. This isn't the early indie rush anymore. Now there's COMPETITION and hundreds of hopeful devs trying to peddle their oh-so-unique pixel graphics indie.
False. Every single exclusive game has been moneyhatted (Sweeney himself has confirmed this)
Well, this is no surprise, it's well known that game devs are totally on board with Epic Games Store. Sorry guys.
I'm not. I'm just reading. I'm just seeing who's talking. And then I'm seeing their product. And then it all makes sense.
Exactly. It's only good now for the lucky devs to be featured because there isn't a critical mass of content in the platform yet. That won't last forever.
The Algorithm talk is one we're never gonna get much traction on. It's easy to talk about that all day until the cows come home, but there doesn't seem to be much we can do about that aspect for developers besides "make it better" and who knows what that entails.
What if in 5 years EGS is matching the same amount of content steam gets a day and the curation/algorithm is as much as a problem there as it's said to be on steam. Where do we go from there?
Sometimes it feels like no one wants to say that there might just be too many devs fighting for the same pie. Which doesn't excuse launchers needing better tools for visibility, but it makes you wonder where the cut-off has to be drawn. For example we have a lot of talk of "Well stuff sells better on switch than X" but the amount of titles on Switch daily compared to steam is largely different.
Some of this kind of comes across as we wanting walled gardens in some form without saying it upfront. Since we've seen in the early days of steam, switch, and EGS that such a move works. But we need a better solution than just "Only some devs can get in here".
What if in 5 years EGS is matching the same amount of content steam gets a day and the curation/algorithm is as much as a problem there as it's said to be on steam. Where do we go from there?
Sometimes it feels like no one wants to say that there might just be too many devs fighting for the same pie. Which doesn't excuse launchers needing better tools for visibility, but it makes you wonder where the cut-off has to be drawn. For example we have a lot of talk of "Well stuff sells better on switch than X" but the amount of titles on Switch daily compared to steam is largely different.
Some of this kind of comes across as we wanting walled gardens in some form without saying it upfront. Since we've seen in the early days of steam, switch, and EGS that such a move works. But we need a better solution than just "Only some devs can get in here".
I mean we have no way of knowing what Epic's people are doing and who they're talking to.
I once watched Kirk Scott make a game a nintendo exclusive on the show floor at PAX in real time, it was amazing.
It's almost like games aren't guaranteed to sell well just because they're good. In general, a lot of the "indiepocalypse" talk assumes that every game deserves to sell, which just isn't true unfortunately. There are many, many factors beyond the platform that makes games not sell. Right now Epic store is the new hotness and they have a lot of money to throw around no make developers like them. But that's eventually going to dry out, and the store is eventually going to get inundated with games, so we'll come back to this paradigm of games just not selling well. It's just the reality of the market.
Basically what I meant to say. The reality of a matured industry is that there are more people who want to "make it" as creators than there can feasibly be.
Basically what I meant to say. The reality of a matured industry is that there are more people who want to "make it" as creators than there can feasibly be.
giant corporations fight over how they can screw over consumers, prideful of their credentials in this field.
News at 11
News at 11
Simiarly, the minimum sales for payout issue brought up by a dev last page is a completely valid complaint to have against Steam, yet fixing it wouldn't help them against EGS at all since Epic isn't going to let on low selling indie games in the first place.
With thousands and thousands of games on your service and hundreds more being released each month, discoverability is a problem in your service no matter what. Most services like Spotify, Netflix and so on, works the same way (with algorithms, user data, etc..), the notion that EGS won't is ridiculous.
That's what I said. And it wasn't really about getting more revenue.
You mean the community features that are largely never used, and were made irrelevant by Discord almost immediately? Or the streaming hardware that they stopped producing? Or the TV interface that still stinks years after debut?
Steam in the past few years is a living parable of feature creep. They've started a million ideas, seen very few of them to completion, and in the process made it infinitely more difficult for developers to actually sell games to consumers.
I can accept this opinion.
I'm having hard time accepting the opinion that "if your game flopped, it must have sucked" that a lot of you subscribe to.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory commentary. Accumulated infractions.
I am just daydreaming now, about Gaben kicking him in the head and saying "Insect", like that Dolph scene from The Expendables.
If discoverability is bad on steam then it's dogshit covered in maggots on EGS.
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