Actually it's not a monopoly because GreenMan Gaming sells 1% of the Steam Keys.
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Vlambeer co-founder Rami Ismail says "sucks to be you" and "you got out businessed" to Valve over EGS exclusives
- Thread starter ditusjack
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Actually it's not a monopoly because GreenMan Gaming sells 1% of the Steam Keys.
He is right.
"Ismail goes on to discuss the change in the context of Valve's impact on indie development, saying "there's an entire generation of indie game developers that got wiped out because of an algorithmic change in Valve's recommendation algorithms and they said, 'Well that's just what the data said'. Well here's what the data said, it said that Metro Exodus is not on Steam because the deal Epic gave [developer 4A Games] was better. To call that unfair, but call all they do just data, it couldn't have been a funnier statement from that perspective."
"Ismail goes on to discuss the change in the context of Valve's impact on indie development, saying "there's an entire generation of indie game developers that got wiped out because of an algorithmic change in Valve's recommendation algorithms and they said, 'Well that's just what the data said'. Well here's what the data said, it said that Metro Exodus is not on Steam because the deal Epic gave [developer 4A Games] was better. To call that unfair, but call all they do just data, it couldn't have been a funnier statement from that perspective."
word of mouth is how you become successful not algorithims. algorothims work by showing what people want based on patterns. if the ai doesnt show your game it meant not enough people cared about it for the ai to pick it up.
I mean, I agree with him.
The only EGS exclusives I have issue with are those who yanked Steam/Windows/etc released at the 11th hour and pulled the rug out from under preorders and backers. But that is more bad practice on the publishers part than anything Epic did, they didn't have to take the money at the expense of their clients and optics.
But brand new games not announced on any platform? Don't get me wrong, I prefer Steam and buy from there as my first choice. But this isn't any more "unfair" than MS or Sony doing this, and I don't have an issue with yet another launcher.
The only EGS exclusives I have issue with are those who yanked Steam/Windows/etc released at the 11th hour and pulled the rug out from under preorders and backers. But that is more bad practice on the publishers part than anything Epic did, they didn't have to take the money at the expense of their clients and optics.
But brand new games not announced on any platform? Don't get me wrong, I prefer Steam and buy from there as my first choice. But this isn't any more "unfair" than MS or Sony doing this, and I don't have an issue with yet another launcher.
The only bad thing about them being challenged now are the customers, but I mean, who cares about them? It's not like that they're important to the market or anything like that.
Because not all indies do. Because as much as you want to turn it into a listwar, I'm sorry but Switch is far from being as crowded as Steam in term of releases, be it AAA or indies.
I've brought this up before, people's response here is just to call developers who are affected "delusional", as if it's unrealistic to think that Steam could improve their terrible storefront.
I don't quite understand why this whole EGS situation is a big surprise to anyone, tbh.
Developers have long expressed disappointment in how Valve handles their storefront - a cursory google will reveal interviews about this, but a good example is regarding curation. The EGS is probably doing better at that atm just by pure virtue of having less games + every game coming to it gets a panic thread, but it's not like Steam was this big happy ship that developers were loving and EGS came out of nowhere, with curation just being one example of that displeasure.
Developers have long expressed disappointment in how Valve handles their storefront - a cursory google will reveal interviews about this, but a good example is regarding curation. The EGS is probably doing better at that atm just by pure virtue of having less games + every game coming to it gets a panic thread, but it's not like Steam was this big happy ship that developers were loving and EGS came out of nowhere, with curation just being one example of that displeasure.
It's true, if an indie game is on the switch I'm more likely to check it out, god knows when was the last time I actually searched for games on steam.
The rather weird love of Steam and only Steam as launcher of choice for many on here has always befuddled me.
I see people on here saying they'll wait a year to play a game as it's not on Steam.
I mean if they really had guts they'd outright refuse to buy the game no waiting for it to come to Steam or the classic get out clause I see on here and previously on Gaf
"I'll get it when it's on sale"
Funny how the ones complaining about the algorithm tanking their sales are those with low budget yet high priced ones.
I can only speak for me but it's the portability the Switch gives me. I like playing indie games in bed. If the Switch didn't offer that I would buy on Steam.
Heh. He's on point here that it's classic corporate hypocrisy at work
Immaturely stamping your feet and saying "But I'm entitled to a steam release" you mean, just like everyone else when discussing EGS.
two things:
-- I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for indie devs if their only beef with Steam is about the curation or what shows up in the first pages of the Store. Do your own fucking marketing, that's not on Steam/Valve. As long as your game properly shows up in Steam's manual search, that's the only part Steam should be responsible for.
-- He is right about being "out-businessed", I don't have a problem with that point. Epic paying for exclusives is not illegal.
-- I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for indie devs if their only beef with Steam is about the curation or what shows up in the first pages of the Store. Do your own fucking marketing, that's not on Steam/Valve. As long as your game properly shows up in Steam's manual search, that's the only part Steam should be responsible for.
-- He is right about being "out-businessed", I don't have a problem with that point. Epic paying for exclusives is not illegal.
This is the same dude that thinks stores should be operated for free, still market the games and that Devs should get 100% of the money. His insane ramblings are just that.
If they have, I haven't seen it. And it seems like developers haven't either. The completely hands off approach to moderation has flooded the store with zero-effort content, and made it difficult for indies who actually make an effort to see sales.
To claim that an algorithm killed a lot of indie devs is dubious at best.
In some cases yes.
Just look at Hollow Knight, released on Steam and was completely overlooked until the Switch launch one year later.
Edit: Ok, I'm clearly wrong here. Game sold well, but it took some time and the switch launch helped it. So many people in this board thinking it was a 2018 release gave me that impression. Sorry.
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I'm not entitled to anything, just like they're not entitled to my business. If they think chasing away fans of their previous works away is good in the long run then go at it.
It's been years and I'm still waiting to know what kind of game of the century has been lost because of this
Someone need to told to these devs that their are not entitled to become rich just because they believe they have the graal in their hands.
Are you saying Hollow Knight bombed on Steam and didn't sell until the Switch launch ?
I don't get the argument for exclusivity. Isn't it better to have your game be available to as many platforms as possible? I mean being exclusive to EGS is money lost from anyone who would have bought the game if only it was available in Steam. So yeah, I think this is just money hatting.
I do find it interesting that Rami has turned around on Steam curation stuff, because I remember him being okay with the floodgates at one point it was better than the arbitrary nature of the way Valve let things on before.
Steam has lots of great features and I totally understand why people are upset about the ways Epic is going about building a library on their storefront, but I also completely agree with Rami that Steam has numerous issues and some of these issues are really, really bad.
HK sold almost a million before coming on switch, that show just how out of the pc space this board is
User warned: trolling
Lol.
The Valve tax takes money out of developers pockets, thereby reducing the number of games.
Steam has seen little innovation over the last 10 years. So much so that supplementary platforms like discord have popped up.
Valve basically stopped making games.
Now they will have to step their game up and deliver more.
How can someone look at Steam through the years and say things havent improved, other than trying to argue in bad faith.
I like Rami but I'm not sure if he's right on this one. Most of the indie games I own on Steam are usually recommended to me by other people, not Steam.
He's right. Valve got caught out by Epic's aggressive tactics and now so many great games are now coming to EGS exclusively.
Control, Division 2, Metro Exodus and Detroit are on EGS... and Valve has review bomb filtering.
Pubs and devs know how lucrative first week sales can be, and now it'll be Epic raking in that early cash. Valve needs to do something quick before they become the sales rack of PC gaming.
Control, Division 2, Metro Exodus and Detroit are on EGS... and Valve has review bomb filtering.
Pubs and devs know how lucrative first week sales can be, and now it'll be Epic raking in that early cash. Valve needs to do something quick before they become the sales rack of PC gaming.
...completely overlooked? Didn't it sell like 500k copies or more? In one of the most crowded years for quality games ever?
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