Virtua Fighter needs a goddamn comeback

[BadWolf]

And VF sales were declining from 4 to 5. Their moves are also less flashier than Tekken.

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So what?

Tekken's sales have declined since its prime days. Should they have stopped making new games?

SFV's sales have declined since SFIV. Should there be no SFVI?

And Tekken is more about throwing a ton of particles/effects on screen. VF's animation has actual impact and doesn't need all that fluff. Just look at Jean's unblockable combo. That shit looks brutal and doesn't need to fill the screen with effects to achieve that.

 

[RedSwirl]

I distinctly remember the atmosphere surrounding the FGC and the fighting game market circa 2006. VF5 came out in a pretty dark time for fighting games. For a little bit it was looking like it might not even be viable to release the game outside Japanese arcades. VF5's main release and marketing push basically missed the fighting game revival by a couple years.

I think the issue with a new VF6 is partly due to Yu Suzuki being busy with Shenmue. I don't remember who exactly it was he left in charge of VF.

I love VF but sadly todays market requires an FG to have either Easy Skill ,Anime-esque or Flashy looking moves,Really good Story/Characters or Fan service like DOA.

Every big FG right now has some of these.
VF is super hard and more complex than the hardest games out there right now.

And while I personally like its roster and more grounded characters, the majority of FG gamers would prefer characters like say Jin ,Scorpion or Sol to someone like Akira. It doesn't really have a big Story as such either like MK.

They would have to radically change VF in order to survive in today's FG market. I dont know how they can bring it back while still doing justice to the series.

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Yeah VF definitely made a point of being more "grounded" and clinical than Tekken and Street Fighter. I remember they even made an April Fools video mocking SF. But at the same time this was kind of what made VF stand out, and what might possibly make it stand out today. VF was also known for being on the technological bleeding edge. VF1 was obviously a foundational polygonal fighting game, and VF3 looked light years beyond anything else in 1996. I have no idea if SEGA today would feel a new VF would need to push new visual boundaries.

As for the game itself, while I never had the time to get deep into VF or Tekken, I never found VF to have a particularly high initial barrier to entry.

Sega in a nutshell.

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Totally.

 

[Hilbert]

Virtua fighter 5 FS on xbox one and 360 still plays like a dream! We could always organize a room if enough era folks are interested.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

Yes. Yes it does need to come back.

While they are at it they need to add Kiryu and Majima.

 

[Mr. X]

When other people steal your feature and use it later to greater success ... yes, it was a failure. Not by design, thats why it was ahead of its time. Amazing idea, good execution, but the market wasnt ready.

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Don't forget SEGA's star player program for this game which went on for years.

This game was eSports before fighting games cared about eSports.

 

[Shadoken]

So what?

Tekken's sales have declined since its prime days. Should they have stopped making new games?

SFV's sales have declined since SFIV. Should there be no SFVI?

And Tekken is more about throwing a ton of particles/effects on screen. VF's animation has actual impact and doesn't need all that fluff. Just look at Jean's unblockable combo. That shit looks brutal and doesn't need to fill the screen with effects to achieve that.

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True , I guess since we haven't had a VF title in the post SFIV and post Streaming Era. Its hard to say how well VF would do.

How well did the VF FS re-release perform on PS3/360? I remember there being quite a bit of buzz around that.

 

[Virtua King]

I want to ride the tiger once again :(

 

[The Vathlonian]

Hell yes. I still play it on PsNow every now and again. Eileen and that monkey style ar so good.

 

[CyberCaesar]

Gotta disagree.

Imo Virtua Fighter is in the same position that SamSho was in that its formula is still very much its own and there is no other fighter on the market like it.

If Sega makes a new VF and modernizes the visuals etc. then it will sell.

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You're right BadWolf it will sell, but will it be enough to cover the cost of production. I'm not sure Sega could give away 2 million copies of Virtua Fighter without considering a serious tonal shift in presentation and style. There's a reason Tekken completely eclipsed the series. This video from King Jae has a clear perspective on the subject.

 

[jett]

So what?

Tekken's sales have declined since its prime days. Should they have stopped making new games?

SFV's sales have declined since SFIV. Should there be no SFVI?

And Tekken is more about throwing a ton of particles/effects on screen. VF's animation has actual impact and doesn't need all that fluff. Just look at Jean's unblockable combo. That shit looks brutal and doesn't need to fill the screen with effects to achieve that.

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VF just looks absolutely wonderful in motion. I don't mind crazy hit sparks but VF sure doesn't need them. The sense of impact is sold perfectly fine without them.





Honestly it's unbelievable how well it holds up visually.

Look how good this looks, it has no business looking this good.

Such a shame Sega put this IP out to pasture. I remembered they released VF5FS on PS3 for $5. FIVE BUCKS. Like some kind of franchise death knell.

 

[Miamiwesker]

It's the greatest fighting series of all time. Easily the best combat system, the most elegant, the most balanced. It's incredible and it needs to return

 

[Piggychan]

 

[Hilbert]

I am always online for virtua fighter 5. There have been a few times on xbox live when the VF5 online suddenly got more populated. When it became BC on xbox one, suddenly lots of people started playing again. Then it was free on xbox games with gold, people once again started playing online. I am waiting for the gamepass bump. It's GOT to come.

People will play if you bring the game up.

Era, lets not wait, lets set up some matches!

 

[BadWolf]

You're right BadWolf it will sell, but will it be enough to cover the cost of production. I'm not sure Sega could give away 2 million copies of Virtua Fighter without considering a serious tonal shift in presentation and style. There's a reason Tekken completely eclipsed the series. This video from King Jae has a clear perspective on the subject.

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It's easy for a series to lose steam when it doesn't release out of Japan for years and then dies without much support.

What that vid says is nothing special.

Characters need to look more modern? Yeah, it's 2019 and not 2006. Not hard to do.

It needs some big story? Really? Tekken 7 has near zero story and single player content.

It's too hard? And Tekken is piss easy apparently? The movement silliness in Tekken alone says otherwise.

All they would need to add is the quest and training modes from VF4 and they would own Tekken 7 when it comes to single player content and teaching players how to play.

It's not like VF6 would need some AAA budget, they don't need to start from scratch. They can easily reuse most of the roster and animation from VF5 and add a few new characters on top. Aside from that most of the new work would be character models, backgrounds etc.

Just gotta set proper expectations. VF doesn't need to sell millions and millions of copies to be a success.

VF just looks absolutely wonderful in motion. I don't mind crazy hit sparks but VF sure doesn't need them. The sense of impact is sold perfectly fine without them.





Honestly it's unbelievable how well it holds up visually.

Look how good this looks, it has no business looking this good.

Such a shame Sega put this IP out to pasture. I remembered they released VF5FS on PS3 for $5. FIVE BUCKS. Like some kind of franchise death knell.

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It really is beautiful.

Leaves Tekken and Dead or Alive in the dust.

 

[Metal Slugger]

The developers jumped for a group photo and still haven't landed on the ground yet.

 

[jett]

Real talk, Tekken 7's "story mode" is complete garbage tier. As is SFV's. And frankly NRS's too if you look past the production values. Nothing but three-hour time-wasters that you'll soon forget about and never revisit. I didn't even bother finishing T7's.

As far as single player modes in fighting games goes, VF's Quest mode takes a gigantic shit on this story-oriented bullshit that has pervaded fighting games today.

Leaves Tekken and Dead or Alive in the dust.

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Indeed.

 

[StreamedHams]

I really just wish they'd port Final Showdown to PS4/XB1. I'd settle for that.

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4K treatment of this would be great.

Personally, I would love a 4K compilation of all 5 games on current gen and PC. I would pay for it, for sure.

 

[Deleted member 5621]

You're right BadWolf it will sell, but will it be enough to cover the cost of production. I'm not sure Sega could give away 2 million copies of Virtua Fighter without considering a serious tonal shift in presentation and style. There's a reason Tekken completely eclipsed the series. This video from King Jae has a clear perspective on the subject.

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I can't speak about the global audience, but know why Tekken is talked about to this day and VF is not in South America? Because Tekken was on Playstation and that was the console people had - and it kept getting sequels regularly so it never left people's minds.

 

[bxsonic]

Even Samurai Showdown is back. It's sad that the best fighting game series (VF) is nowhere to be seen. It's the only 3D fighting game that I've ever loved.

 

[Marcus Brutalius]

You could say it's still ahead.

This 2006 game has better animation than current 3D fighters. How is that possible.

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Not so sure about that, DOA 5 + 6's animations are on par if not better.
VF fighters were almost untouched in DOA5 and felt rather stiff compared to the DOA cast with their smother transistions.

 

[Jer]

Real talk, Tekken 7's "story mode" is complete garbage tier. As is SFV's. And frankly NRS's too if you look past the production values. Nothing but three-hour time-wasters that you'll soon forget about and never revisit. I didn't even bother finishing T7's.

As far as single player modes in fighting games goes, VF's Quest mode takes a gigantic shit on this story-oriented bullshit that has pervaded fighting games today.

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It's always confused me why other developers don't do something like the VF4 Evo quest mode. It's the best single player mode I've ever seen, and probably costs way less to develop than that high production value story stuff. Actually sort of helps you improve, too, I remember the AI feeling much better than SC2 and other games of the day.

 

[rawhide]

To me it's really sad that VF has missed out on the FG renaissance. My biggest disappointment with Sega.

Is the VF5 team even around anymore? I assume they're wasting away working on abject garbage.

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A lot of the old VF team is now the Project Diva team.

Even if we completely ignore the conversation about which game is harder. Tekken has so many other things that gets people into their community.

Tekken doesn't need to "break in" to the market , its always been there and has had steady releases. For VF to come in after nearly a decade of absence, it would need to become an easier game to get into or have other things in its favor to be markettable.

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Overseas, sure.

In Japan, vanilla-ass VF would be perfectly fine. People forget there were multiple games in that series that hit SF2 levels of ubiquity.

Japan makes it viable for the rest of the world, and I almost don't give a shit if it "breaks" over here as long as it exists.

How well did the VF FS re-release perform on PS3/360? I remember there being quite a bit of buzz around that.

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We don't know in terms of actual numbers but they said it hit lifetime sales projections very soon after it launched.

 

[KyngKee]

I said the same thing playing MK11 the other day. I've got MK11, SFV, Killer Instinct, and Soul Calibur 6 and while I like them all none of them are scratching my fighting game itch. I may get Tekken 7 and try that out, but, I've been playing VF5 in Judgement lately...

 

[Dark Ninja]

Hopefully they add the characters into DOA again. They fit really well.

 

[NLCPRESIDENT]

Man. Only if they bring back that kumite mode from 4. Hands down the BEST fighting game single player experience ever. It was like an offline/ online simulator. So good.

 

[super moustique]

I really just wish they'd port Final Showdown to PS4/XB1. I'd settle for that.

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Isn't VF5 better though ? I remember FS not having Quest Mode and customization (the latter being locked behind DLC).

 

[sQr]

Maybe my favorite fighting game. It's a shame, that they skipping this generation... : /

 

[Mistouze]

AMEN!

It's fucking sad it has been relegated to "minigame in Yakuza game" status.

The series has the potential to do well in today's market, I feel like it has a different enough aesthetic and gameplay to carve itself a niche in the FGC and IT'S ACTUALLY A GREAT FIGHTING GAME SERIES!!! It's just so sad, VF4/VF5 where 100% my jam. Only series I was middly competent at lol.

Just give me another VF5FS digital release on PS4/Xbone/Switch/PC if you're going to be cheap, SEGA.

PLEASE.

 

[DatManOvaDer]

It's funny cause they bothered to get VF5 running on PS4 AND PC for Yakuza but they won't port actual game for some reason

 

[Synth]

Tekken and Dead Or Alive have it covered.

*pats on head*

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Dead or Alive ain't got shit covered with the way DOA6 has been handled. And I've been a DOA fan since the first game hit the arcades in '96.

1 and 2 to me just looks very unique. You look at those games and you instantly know it's Virtua Fighter. I can't speak much for 3 or 4 but every time I look at 5 I think it just looks so generic. You could show me any screen from that game and tell me it's from DoA and I'd believe you.

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This is actually kinda funny because you could create a fighting game universe with Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter, Last Bronx, Fighting Vipers and the like and at any overlapping point in time the characters would have blended together due to running off similar hardware. Virtua Fighter 2 actually doesn't look very unique at all next to the original Dead or Alive and the other games I mentioned. They all collectively have a very distinct "Model 2" look to them.

Virtua Fighter 1 and Virtua Fighter 3 are probably to two VF games that look most unique relative to other fighters, because each were released at a time where they were far too good graphically to be compared with anything else on the market, whilst not looking as advanced as the games that hit by the time they were able to be successfully ported.

Isn't VF5 better though ? I remember FS not having Quest Mode and customization (the latter being locked behind DLC).

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Virtua Fighter 5 vanilla is more content rich due to being intended as a full priced retail release, but Final Showdown is a better playing game. The original VF5 isn't that fondly regarded in the VF community, and is kinda just seen as a worse VF4 (everyone hates the throw clash mechanic it added), whilst VF5FS feels like an actual sequel.

 

[MikeProtagonist]

Dead or Alive ain't got shit covered with the way DOA6 has been handled. And I've been a DOA fan since the first game hit the arcades in '96.



This is actually kinda funny because you could create a fighting game universe with Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter, Last Bronx, Fighting Vipers and the like and at any overlapping point in time the characters would have blended together due to running off similar hardware. Virtua Fighter 2 actually doesn't look very unique at all next to the original Dead or Alive and the other games I mentioned. They all collectively have a very distinct "Model 2" look to them.

Virtua Fighter 1 and Virtua Fighter 3 are probably to two VF games that look most unique relative to other fighters, because each were released at a time where they were far too good graphically to be compared with anything else on the market, whilst not looking as advanced as the games that hit by the time they were able to be successfully ported.



Virtua Fighter 5 vanilla is more content rich due to being intended as a full priced retail release, but Final Showdown is a better playing game. The original VF5 isn't that fondly regarded in the VF community, and is kinda just seen as a worse VF4 (everyone hates the throw clash mechanic it added), whilst VF5FS feels like an actual sequel.

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Also, after grinding for weeks to get all the necessary items for my customs, I really didn't want to do it all over again. VF5 had the F2P grind without even having the option to pay.

 

[bell wood's jet cola]

I distinctly remember the atmosphere surrounding the FGC and the fighting game market circa 2006. VF5 came out in a pretty dark time for fighting games. For a little bit it was looking like it might not even be viable to release the game outside Japanese arcades. VF5's main release and marketing push basically missed the fighting game revival by a couple years.

I think the issue with a new VF6 is partly due to Yu Suzuki being busy with Shenmue. I don't remember who exactly it was he left in charge of VF.



Yeah VF definitely made a point of being more "grounded" and clinical than Tekken and Street Fighter. I remember they even made an April Fools video mocking SF. But at the same time this was kind of what made VF stand out, and what might possibly make it stand out today. VF was also known for being on the technological bleeding edge. VF1 was obviously a foundational polygonal fighting game, and VF3 looked light years beyond anything else in 1996. I have no idea if SEGA today would feel a new VF would need to push new visual boundaries.

As for the game itself, while I never had the time to get deep into VF or Tekken, I never found VF to have a particularly high initial barrier to entry.



Totally.

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I don't think Yu Suzuki had anything to do with VF5. That said, I'm pretty sure he's said he has no interest in revisiting the series because he accomplished everything he wanted to accomplish with VF4.

 

[Xbudz]

Here's some 4K screenshots of VF5 that I captured via emulation on PC.
It's the closest thing to a remaster and I goddamn love it.
Definitely needs a comeback.

 

[XaviConcept]

Man. Only if they bring back that kumite mode from 4. Hands down the BEST fighting game single player experience ever. It was like an offline/ online simulator. So good.

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Agree, easily over 100 hours on that, loved training the AI character as well. So many good ideas and execution there.

 

[Kinn]

They need to do a VF collection to get the interest going and then do the sequel.

 

[Hailinel]

Put Kiryu in it and half of Era would promise to buy it (with only 5 percent actually committing to it)

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God damn.

 

[Korigama]

Put Kiryu in it and half of Era would promise to buy it (with only 5 percent actually committing to it)

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No lies detected.

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Damn shame what they did to Vanessa in VF5.

 

[Shadoken]

Wow those 4K screenshots look better than some FGs that released this gen.

 

[Ferrio]

Damn shame what they did to Vanessa in VF5.

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The only character in the series that I ever liked and they did her dirty like that.

 

[TimeFire]

I'll be real with you VF peeps. I don't really find anything surface-level appealing with Virtua Fighter, speaking as a casual player. The characters are kinda bland martial artist tropes, the game isn't really flashy or filled with cool crap that's easily giffable. I wouldn't really be hyped for a new one because there's nothing particularly attractive about it.

As a fighting game fan though, it seems like an excellent game. The two button system is certainly interesting and looks like tons of fun but good luck convincing casuals with that. People don't start playing fighting games because it has cool systems. I dunno what SEGA could do to VF that wouldn't make it look like a bootleg Tekken/DOA to the casual viewer

 

[Sander VF]

As a person who's never played VF and is throwing shit at a wall:

Maybe make it a bit gritty? If we're saying no to flashiness of other FGs and wish to remain relatively grounded, then why not look to say, movies like Raid for inspiration. Make the visuals of those hits feel like brutal martial arts film stuff.

Would such a thing be feasible? Would it take away the blue skies?

 

[Pogogacy]

Virtua Fighter is for Sega what Metroid is for Nintendo. A pioneering masterpiece which creates a genre only to sit back, do absolutely nothing for years and let imitators take the limelight.

 

[Deleted member 5621]

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"why can't I hold all those akiras"

 

[Deleted member 13155]

VF5 FS is the best 3D fighter I have played.

But the series is probably not flashy enough and if they make it flashy its not VF.

A new VF find its devoted audience though, but the question is if its worthwhile enough for Sega.

 

[SapientWolf]

I'll be real with you VF peeps. I don't really find anything surface-level appealing with Virtua Fighter, speaking as a casual player. The characters are kinda bland martial artist tropes, the game isn't really flashy or filled with cool crap that's easily giffable. I wouldn't really be hyped for a new one because there's nothing particularly attractive about it.

As a fighting game fan though, it seems like an excellent game. The two button system is certainly interesting and looks like tons of fun but good luck convincing casuals with that. People don't start playing fighting games because it has cool systems. I dunno what SEGA could do to VF that wouldn't make it look like a bootleg Tekken/DOA to the casual viewer

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All of VF's flash was in the mo-capped throw animations, which were some of the best in the genre. Especially Shun Di's.

If I was trying to sell VF to casuals I would work the MMA angle as much they can without alienating the FGC. They could emphasize the franchise's (relative) realism compared to other fighters.

 

[Korigama]

I'll be real with you VF peeps. I don't really find anything surface-level appealing with Virtua Fighter, speaking as a casual player. The characters are kinda bland martial artist tropes, the game isn't really flashy or filled with cool crap that's easily giffable. I wouldn't really be hyped for a new one because there's nothing particularly attractive about it.

As a fighting game fan though, it seems like an excellent game. The two button system is certainly interesting and looks like tons of fun but good luck convincing casuals with that. People don't start playing fighting games because it has cool systems. I dunno what SEGA could do to VF that wouldn't make it look like a bootleg Tekken/DOA to the casual viewer

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This is the key issue here. It's fairly plain and no frills, not particularly exciting in how it presents itself in a genre typically focused on being over-the-top in how other games show off their characters and their techniques. And honestly, I don't see anything changing about that if VF were to be brought back.

As a person who's never played VF and is throwing shit at a wall:

Maybe make it a bit gritty? If we're saying no to flashiness of other FGs and wish to remain relatively grounded, then why not look to say, movies like Raid for inspiration. Make the visuals of those hits feel like brutal martial arts film stuff.

Would such a thing be feasible? Would it take away the blue skies?

Click to shrink...

Didn't do any favors to DoA6 with its dumb Break Blow face smashes (lacking the nerve to commit to showing them for every character not helping, either). Of course, little about DoA6 suggests that Team Ninja really knew what they wanted that game to be.

 

[Kyussons]

This is the key issue here. It's fairly plain and no frills, not particularly exciting in how it presents itself in a genre typically focused on being over-the-top in how other games show off their characters and their techniques. And honestly, I don't see anything changing about that if VF were to be brought back.

Didn't do any favors to DoA6 with its dumb Break Blow face smashes (lacking the nerve to commit to showing them for every character not helping, either). Of course, little about DoA6 suggests that Team Ninja really knew what they wanted that game to be.

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VF flash is in the ultra fast speed high level matches are played at, with high reward high risk decisions being taken at any moment trying to read your opponents to outplay them.
Yeah I admit that is not flashy for the casual player but it is what makes VF great if you have invested some time playing and understanding the diferent gameplay systems.

 

[Sander VF]

Didn't do any favors to DoA6 with its dumb Break Blow face smashes (lacking the nerve to commit to showing them for every character not helping, either). Of course, little about DoA6 suggests that Team Ninja really knew what they wanted that game to be.

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I've only watched DoA 6 gameplay in Woolie's most recent fighting game stream, but you refer to that "Super" move that basically has one character clocking another really hard in the face, right? Not really quite what I'm getting at, those looked like they were out of place with the rest of the game and their kawaii schoolgirls.

My idea is to make the normal moves animate like they hurt. Like something out of a Hong Kong martial arts movie. No need to lean too hard into violence, just lean into "real grounded hardcore martial arts, dude" to differentiate itself to the casual audience.

EDIT: Does this thread imply that it would be easier for SEGA to bring back Fighting Vipers? Hell, their Jotaro expy would be more popular in a world where the west know who the hell Jotaro is.

 

[Segafreak]

When you see the evolution of DOA and then see VF still stuck in the DOA4 era it pains my heart. A modern VF would be so good. DOA is basically a faster, more streamlined Virtua Fighter.


Sega and Konami are like the only 2 Nipponese companies that have neglected their IPs recently.

 

[MikeProtagonist]

Sega has made new Sakura Wars, Panzer Dragoon and Streets of Rage games recently. I'm pretty certain they just haven't gotten around to it yet. It also doesn't make sense to make one at the tail end of the generation.

If we haven't heard of it one year onto next gen, it's time to start worrying.