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LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,364
If it doesn't matter and nobody cares then why do other Mario games go out of their way to explain these things? Galaxy has planets, the stars have purpose. Odyssey has you on a literal voyage from place to place, collecting fuel for your ship.

It's absolutely laziness. If there's no point then why does every other game do it? Why didn't Psychonauts just have you in the collective unconcious the whole time and just go to the brains sequentially? Why did they bother to give every item a contextual place in the world? Was there no point? Was that all pointless blathering?

Hell no. They did it because it makes the game better. I can totally get not caring about it but you can't say that it's pointless when other, better games go out of their way to address the issue
Bwah?

The stars are used to power magic in mario 64. The game does explain this. Mario collects them to unseal bowsers spells on doors and stop bowsers spell on those stairs near the end.

From the very first toad in the game:
(Main entrance) "Am I glad to see you! The Princess...and I...and, well, everybody...we're all trapped inside the castle walls. Bowser has stolen the castle's Stars, and he's using their power to create his own world in the paintings and walls. Please recover the Power Stars! As you find them, you can use their power to open the doors that Bowser has sealed. There are four rooms on the first floor. Start in the one with the painting of Bob-omb inside. It's the only room that Bowser hasn't sealed.

I don't get it. Why is "trinket is needed for fuel" ok in galaxy and odyssey, Vs "trinkets are needed to open sealed doors" is not ok? This seems an entirely arbitrary distinction just to be mad.
 

NuclearCake

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,867
Still the best game on the N64 and a easy contender for one of the best games ever made.

I'm amazed how many 3D platformers have completely failed to come anywhere near close to how well Mario 64 controls. The same depth just isn't there. Even future 3D Mario games struggled to reach the same high. Galaxy and 3D World are pretty laughable in comparison on the control and mechanical front. Sunshine and recently Odyssey are the only things that really compare to this.
 
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BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,939
CT
The only things you can argue about sm64 that haven't aged well are the camera and the graphics.

Also dunkey get your mouse off the screen -.-
 

wondermagenta

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,153
Cologne
If it doesn't matter and nobody cares then why do other Mario games go out of their way to explain these things? Galaxy has planets, the stars have purpose. Odyssey has you on a literal voyage from place to place, collecting fuel for your ship.

It's absolutely laziness. If there's no point then why does every other game do it? Why didn't Psychonauts just have you in the collective unconcious the whole time and just go to the brains sequentially? Why did they bother to give every item a contextual place in the world? Was there no point? Was that all pointless blathering?

Hell no. They did it because it makes the game better. I can totally get not caring about it but you can't say that it's pointless when other, better games go out of their way to address the issue.
Maybe I like the fact that the paintings are largely unexplained and how that lets me use my imagination. It's ludicrous to act like there is an "ideal" solution for presenting your stages in a platformer and like Mario 64's implementation is an "objective issue" that needs "addressing." You speak of "mass delusion" over things you perceive as "objectively bad" when there's literally no such thing as "objectively bad" in any video game. This kind of language is why people have a problem with your opinions dude.
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,079
The jab at Witcher 3's shitty clunky-ass controls is the best thing in the entire video!
 
OP
OP
ZeoVGM

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
I didn't expect this thread to have someone say the game controls like shit and another say that Sonic Adventure is better than Mario Galaxy and 3D World but hey, this is the internet.
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,079
I didn't expect this thread to have someone say the game controls like shit and another say that Sonic Adventure is better than Mario Galaxy and 3D World but hey, this is the internet.

There's probably at least one person out there who seriously thinks that Bubsy 3D is the best platformer ever made!
 

Larrikin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,739
Maybe I like the fact that the paintings are largely unexplained and how that lets me use my imagination. It's ludicrous to act like there is an "ideal" solution for presenting your stages in a platformer and like Mario 64's implementation is an "objective issue" that needs "addressing." You speak of "mass delusion" over things you perceive as "objectively bad" when there's literally no such thing as "objectively bad" in any video game. This kind of language is why people have a problem with your opinions dude.
I should've known better than to make a joke but me saying 'objectively bad' and 'mass delusion' were a joke in reference to someone quoting me saying that my opinion was "purely incorrect" I was making fun at the notion of there being any objective truth in opinions about video games. Long story short I agree with your post entirely, and was the point I was trying to make.

From the very first toad in the game:

"A wizard did it" strikes me to much the same effect as no reason at all. That's a meme for a reason. fuel/energy source is at least something relatable/tangible.

But again, I've made a separate thread for this so as not to derail this one.
 

WestEgg

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
This game aged real well.
That's a funny thing about Mario that I've noticed. Maybe it's because the art direction in every game is so strong, or maybe it's because the games are really iconic, but Mario games seem like they don't age visually, they just look like what Mario is supposed to look like in that particular context.

Like, this is Mario:
mario-8bit.png


And this is also Mario:
59a20871051a9f038e8866624fe78c04


And this is also Mario:

aca.png


And look, it's Mario!
250px-SMO_Art_-_Mario.png


And the thing to me is, these don't feel like progressively better renderings of the same fictional man, they just feel like what Mario looked like at the time, like seeing a yearbook picture of your parents. They're all fundamentally Mario.
 

supkid

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,760
Dublin, Ireland
The amount of time I spent in the opening area just drowning Mario over and over again much to the laughter of my friends back when I first got my N64.. ha, 3 of us took turns to clear it over the course of a weekend. Such an incredible experience, one of the great moments in gaming. Actually the only Mario game I've ever completed as well.

Although I came close with Sunshine (prob my fav Mario of all time) and Galaxy, and I did watch a friend beat Mario 2 and 3, and I played a few levels as well... so I guess I could count them? Anyone? Or do you have to play a game completely by yourself to say that you completed it?
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
He does a good job explaining why 64 is still the best Mario game. The Odyssey team needs to watch this 10 times. The focus needs to be Mario and he needs a very rich moveset against a sandbox world made to challenge his rich moveset. Nobody asked to be a Bullt Bill, pecking bird, caterpillar, or vine plant.

It's baffling because Nintendo clearly is open to all ideas. They remade Zelda brilliantly. But they just can't seem to give us a true evolution of Mario 64.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,960
Osaka, Osaka
I played the VC version because I don't have an N64 (nor have I ever). I had issues with cameras and controls pretty often.

I hope to eventually get an N64 (though I guess I'd want it modded), and see if it was just poor emulation like other N64 VC titles.

Super Mario 64 is kind of miraculous. I do not understand how could they nail 3D controls so well on their first try.

8oZz8n5.gif


He leans into his turns.

He leans into his turns.

How did they even think of implementing this in 1996.

They spent a lot of time just tuning this in test environments. Enough so that it arguably delayed the entire console, as they didn't want to launch without Mario.
 

cnorwood

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,345
I was willing to meet you in good faith with this tier list. Shake your hand and respectfully hash this out.

But you chose to spit in my face and put Sonic Adventure in the "Frick Yea" tier.

Is this just some kind of sick game to you?
I was going to ask if Tearaway was that good then I saw Sonic Adventure 1 that high and knew the list can't be trusted
 

Absolute

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,090
Lazy "lazy dev" rhetoric used against the makers of Mario 64? I've seen some bad takes in my time but holy shit.
 

Xwing

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
9,879
Wall jumping is too finicky and weird in the OG Mario 64. Can't tell you how many wonderful parkour sessions were ended because Mario decided he wanted to OOF a wall instead of jump off it. Mario Sunshine and Mario Odyssey surpassed 64 in terms of fluid, satisfying movement and level traversal.
 

ZiggyPalffyLA

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
4,504
Los Angeles, California
I can understand if people don't know, It happens but, if there are receipts. Maybe we should.. ya know... get on that.

We been tryin'! The few freedom fighters here point it out every time one of his videos is posted. But there are a lot of hypocrites who just don't care, or god forbid actually condone his behavior.

Gamers aren't the most progressive bunch when it comes to LGBT issues.
 

Laxoon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,834
I believe this because you have AHiT high, and that game is amazing, but Toy Story and Ape Escape? I never have played those. Should I if I love 3dplats?
If you love 3dplats I think Toy Story 2 is more purely that and they handle the theme of being a small toy in a huge world in very cute ways, Buzz isn't near as fun as Mario to control but he's got some moves that keep the controls real fun. Ape Escape is more gimmicky and has a snappier feel with more exploring than platforming but they both have a very fun energy for me.
 
Jan 3, 2018
3,406
I don't know if it's because it has the best movement as much as it doesn't have a single movement option that is a go-to. Every type of jump in the game has a good use, but isn't so easy and effective that you only use it, and the levels take advantage of that. That combined with the levels being easy, with the option for extremely advanced play, makes it the best 3D mario game to this day imo. Sunshine's fludd took away from the pure thrill of nailing a platforming challenge (outside of the fludd-less areas, my personal favorite areas in that game), and Odyssey was just "jump, throw hat, dive onto hat, throw hat again, dive", which was by far the most versatile movement option in the game, and wasn't difficult to pull off in the slightest. I'd argue Odyssey feels the best to move around in, but that one go to move removes a lot of the fun for me. I also personally found the level design in Odyssey to be a massive let down, and those 2 things combined make it my least favorite 3D mario game to date.

This. Also I think the long jump in Odyssey (excluding hat-throwing shenanigans) is way shorter than in 64.
 

Redfox088

Banned
May 31, 2018
2,293
Is good. Much of what makes some of the best Nintendo games of the 3D era is traversal. When getting from A to B is fun, regardless of what awaits you at B, you have something. It's what makes 3D Mario or Breath of the Wild or Splatoon enjoyable at their core, for me, the moment-to-moment gameplay is enjoyable such that they can hold back the effect of many shortcomings that you encounter.
I agree it's the only decent thing about Spider-Man. And it's why I didn't do any side quest at all
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
When you can still play a 20 yo games and it still feel good to play that's when you know you hit the jackpot
 

Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
Germany
Is good. Much of what makes some of the best Nintendo games of the 3D era is traversal. When getting from A to B is fun, regardless of what awaits you at B, you have something. It's what makes 3D Mario or Breath of the Wild or Splatoon enjoyable at their core, for me, the moment-to-moment gameplay is enjoyable such that they can hold back the effect of many shortcomings that you encounter.

This is one of the reasons Xenoblade Chronicles X is such a great game.

Traversal is fun, and the world is amazing to witness.