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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,737
User Banned (5 days): Driving a derail; history of repeated behavior
Well, yes but no. Bluepoint is doing a great job so far.

My point isn't to make fun of Bluepoint, it's to make fun of Sony as a publisher for only valuing legacy content when they can pretend it's not legacy content at all and charge for it like it's a new game.

I am never going to be able to play Folklore or Wild ARMs again because Jim Ryan doesn't care about old games and they aren't important enough to him to pay someone to remake.
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,434
NY
Pretty much. They're just leaving money on the table, really.

Start buying up those PS3/Vita games, PS3 in particular while they're dirt cheap and gamestop is practically giving them away with some of their sales they do.
How so? They're going to make more money remastering/remaking those PS3/Vita games over time. If anything, they're following Nintendo's strategy which has worked for them for years of reselling old games in new packages.

I feel like people don't understand the insane gesture of goodwill Microsoft has given us with their BC strategy. To me it's the only thing that made the Xbox One generation worth it overall. They spent a lot of time and resources getting their BC working. The payoff for Xbox is that it keeps the GamePass library filled to the brim with both old and newer games, but lets not pretend that this was a simple task for MS.
 

Jackpot2027

Member
Aug 1, 2018
143
so going from 0 to a 99,9% to the ps4 generation BC and with boost in some games is not enough?.

Because reading this thread it seems there's nothing.

And they never said never to amplifying with more consoles, should i remember that One started the BC at mid-gen?
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,129
Peru
PS3 I do understand to an extent, but PS1 and PS2 should definitely be there somehow. I hope they do focus on BC solutions as the generation goes on, the PS5 is a good start.
Now, calling their current solution dismal, nah, that's a tad too extreme considering it seems like it'll work fine and less than 10 PS4 games won't be compatible.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,481
The only reason that I'm "ok" with this is that Xbox is making moves to eat their lunch in this regard. Hopefully MS having a more robust netflix catalogue will impact Sony's bottom line.
 

TheChrisGlass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,606
Los Angeles, CA
Consoles die. All the old Game Gears have their caps blown, regardless of model. You can't play them unless you solder on new ones.
Preservation is important.
Just because you don't see the benefit in having PS2/PS3 titles play with nice controllers over a proper HDMI output doesn't mean that we don't want that.
The only reason that I'm "ok" with this is that Xbox is making moves to eat their lunch in this regard. Hopefully MS having a more robust netflix catalogue will impact Sony's bottom line.

And that's what we need. Competition. Man, could you imagine if Sony gets knocked down by this, and they have to end up adding BC, and even restoring PS3 content on their web store?
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I never said i don't play 5 year old games. I said i don't invest $500 to play them. That's all.
I literally played Tomb Raider II yesterday and i still love those tank controls, lmao.

I mean, nor does anyone else? They just want their $500 investment to allow them to play their whole library.

Why would you want to pay $500 as well idk $200 odd to go play an old game? That doesn't make sense.

I pay $500 for a console that plays video games, including the newest, as well as old ones better.

Not sure why you're making this weird distinction. Plus, like, I have a PS4 Pro but I'm buying a PS5 in part to play PS4 games I haven't got to. Plenty can benefit from the increased loading etc. Are there no PS4 games that you've not gotten to play that you're interested in?
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
So what you're trying to say is if people had the option to play the original souls in BC the remake would fail miserably?

ok dude.
No I'm saying the remaster will always sell
Sony knows this

it's a huge part of their plan

I'm a huge advocate of what Microsoft is currently doing with smart delivery.

In this scenario you don't have to pay 70 dollars for a Spider-Man remaster that has improved frames and ray tracing.
 

svnty6rs3

Member
May 13, 2020
628
do we know what percentage of users played ps2 games on ps4? whether it be the ps2 classics on psn or through ps now? I can't imagine the % of people who will try to play ps3 games on the ps5 will be that high.
 

RomanticHeroX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,887
Yeah it's a nuanced convo. Even though I'm actually in the part that early 3D games are and we're rough as hell vs 2d games and I'd rather see games be brought forward as remakes and remasters. But I know some people want the purity of those older games to be what they are.
I think keeping old games relevant is best done either through cheap, plentiful and barebones emulation, or high quality remakes or special presentations like the SNK Anniversary Collection. The people who want to play those old games probably already know how to easily emulate them, so they have to have some kind of hook on either side to stand out. The PS2 games on PS4 were the worst of both worlds, being expensive yet lacking and very few in numbers. That's definitely not the model I want any company to be taking.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,426
My only hope is that Microsofts BC will kick Sony into finding a solution for the PS3.
 

Hasi

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
283
The reality is that the broader market doesn't care for these games, they care for the next release. If you care about gaming preservation, emulation is the way to go.
I think this is actually one of the best points the article raises though, that this approach to BC drives the market to think of games in this way, which is an overall toxic effect on games as an art form. Think of the comparison to film, it's perfectly acceptable to like both new films and old ones, and the effort put into keeping old films alive or restoring them nurtures both a market for them and a sense of history that benefits both understanding and production of new films.

Games could do this too, but sadly we are stuck with having our consoles being proprietary platforms. Right now, Microsoft is promoting BC, but only because Game Pass provides them an incentive to do so.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
How so? They're going to make more money remastering/remaking those PS3/Vita games over time. If anything, they're following Nintendo's strategy which has worked for them for years of reselling old games in new packages.

I feel like people don't understand the insane gesture of goodwill Microsoft has given us with their BC strategy. To me it's the only thing that made the Xbox One generation worth it overall. They spent a lot of time and resources getting their BC working. The payoff for Xbox is that it keeps the GamePass library filled to the brim with both old and newer games, but lets not pretend that this was a simple task for MS.

Remakes and remasters will always be a thing, but not every game will get that treatment. Sometimes a simple port is all a game really needs.

I'm not claiming it was simple by any means, and the payoff is that Xbox also get's to cater to lapsed gamers and the nostalgia market, which has clearly proven profitable for them.

"bro, remember staying up playing halo 3? what about fusion frenzy? we should find old boxes and play again" they go to gamestop and are informed their dusty old copies will still work with the NEW xbox! and they'll look even better too. Turns out, they're STILL in the ecosystem, Xbox didn't leave them behind. They already have a collection to dig into and an entirely new library and generations that they missed to catch up on
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,378

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,143
UK
I wish more people actually gave them shit for this. They basically abandoned every single Generation before PS4, and I just don't get how no one seems bothered. It has brought me literally minutes away from cancelling my pre-order numerous times, because it just annoys me so much.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,819
Is this really something you believe?
I mean most people are fine going completely digital and signing up to streaming services where they have no control over their media. The majority of people buy a game, play it and then never touch it again. I think full BC would be neat but there just aren't enough old titles that I want to replay that would be a deal breaker for me. Even the guys on GiantBomb Cast ( I think it was Brad) said he thought BC was great but he had no intention of really using it beyond playing 15 minutes of some old games to tinker.
 

Homura

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 20, 2019
6,110
I just have one question.

Why are these articles never posed about nintendo? Arguably nintendo is worse about this.
Literally only Microsoft puts this much effort into BC.
Because Nintendo has an amazing track record for BC.
Switch is their only console since N64 without it, and it's for hardware issues.
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,940
I'm just imagining PS2 & PS3 games being unlocked and played at several times their intended resolutions at rock solid FPS' :( It's worth striving for IMO. Even if the task in itself doesn't make its money back, the added value proposition for the Playstation ecosystem moving forward would absolutely make it worth it.
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
I guess even stated a simple fact about the lack of BC on Sony's part is too much for some. Guess this one will be another VICE article into he ignore list, but at least this one isn't because of death threats and the like. That is refreshing, I guess
 

Karlinel

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
7,826
Mallorca, Spain
Well, on ps5 you will be able to play all ps5 and ps4 games, the digital releases of ps2 games, and psnow. And discless consoles can't bc shit...
 

Bennibop

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,646
Reality is the majority of people don't care about backward compatability and Sony and Nintendo do not see the need to invest. Microsoft position is different, they were lacking in first party exclusives and the doubling down on bc was a way of improving market standing/ mind share.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,426
Because Nintendo has an amazing track record for BC.
Switch is their only console since N64 without it, and it's for hardware issues.
Do they? I mean yeah they do offer BC with the prior console which I'm extremely grateful for, but sony has done that for every console they have as well (Minus the PS4)
PS2 was BC, PS3 was BC, Vita was BC, PS5 is BC.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,786
I just have one question.

Why are these articles never posed about nintendo? Arguably nintendo is worse about this.
Literally only Microsoft puts this much effort into BC.
Nintendo had nearly 100% BC with their last few systems and got shit on for worrying about it and offering controller BC at the time. Most people accept the Switch as a clean break due to controller and architecture differences. They also are trying to bring their old libraries to the Switch in one way or another and have clearly made strides in making emulators of their old machines for Switch.
 

Ninja_Hawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
915
Eh, I don't think this article is really seeing it from both sides. Sony doesn't care, because the market hasn't shown that they care. This article is making it about shaping the views of the consumers, when that also works both ways. Obviously they benefit more by selling you new boxes and games. But if they had evidence that there was a huge market dedicated to legacy gaming, I wouldn't put it past them to cater to it. Since one of Sony's strengths is their ability to check off the proverbial boxes of their competitors. PS5 is backwards compatible so that whole idea of them only wanting to sell you new things is moot.

They are doing what is cost effective, while catering directly to what their base buys, otherwise they could just make PS5 a PS5 only platform. Again they are still selling you cheap PS4 games so I don't think this is some campaign they have against old games, nor is this some focused campaign to make you think otherwise. They are focusing on their strengths and what the market has very much dictated as being of importance. The preservation of legacy gaming is a novel idea (one that Microsoft invested in for an advantage and point of differentiation) and I don't doubt they'll invest in it, from now forward, because everything is already in place for them to do so without much extra investment. To put it blunty, they just don't think it's that valuable and the market has not shown them otherwise. Maybe they'll change their tone and make a huge investment in it at some point, but it's always gonna be a risk/reward kind of thing and they've made it very difficult on themselves with their previous hardware decisions.
 

Steiner_Zi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,345
It's not just that. Pretty much all PS generations are based on wildly different architectures. As a result, they are very difficult to emulate. The PS5 is the first time it's possible to achieve 100% BC and they are doing it.
Come on, that argument only holds true for PS3 games and even then PS5 should be able to brute force it by now. As for PS1/PS2 there's no excuse. They have the software emulators already. I can even emulate PS1 games on my phone.
 

Shock32

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,680
The reality is that the broader market doesn't care for these games, they care for the next release. If you care about gaming preservation, emulation is the way to go.

Not to mention the huge increase in streaming and online games. The millions of people playing/ watching the new cod or fortnite is what the market reacts too. Not some ps2 game.

The ps5 being bc with the ps4 and going forward is all that really matters .
 

ChuckXL

Banned
May 3, 2018
2,448
I would revisit (or play for the first time) SO MANY PS1 and PS2 games if Sony could figure out how to do it. It makes me sad that they can't, or won't.
 

BeeDog

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
Sony should try to find a good way to emulate old games, no reason why they can't create decent emulators and bake them into the OS. On the other hand, I have full respect towards the fact that the old consoles, PS3 especially, cannot easily be managed with proper BC due to their wacky architectures.

And I generally think Era members overstate the importance of backwards compatibility, especially for older console generations.
 

Deleted member 57361

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 2, 2019
1,360
I think this is actually one of the best points the article raises though, that this approach to BC drives the market to think of games in this way, which is an overall toxic effect on games as an art form. Think of the comparison to film, it's perfectly acceptable to like both new films and old ones, and the effort put into keeping old films alive or restoring them nurtures both a market for them and a sense of history that benefits both understanding and production of new films.

Games could do this too, but sadly we are stuck with having our consoles being proprietary platforms. Right now, Microsoft is promoting BC, but only because Game Pass provides them an incentive to do so.
Films are different because they are not a interactive media. There are some games that simply doesn't age well for current standards unlike movies. Those who age well, gets re-releases, like RE4, Mario, Zelda, etc. And honestly? Not even gaming media treats games as an art form, asking this from players is too much.
 

TheRealTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,487
Well I am also fine with them being uber harsh to Sony.

Since if we get a lot of articles about this, most likely Sony will do something about it since they actually respond to popular critic.
 

MekaMachine

Banned
Sep 17, 2020
241
I guess even stated a simple fact about the lack of BC on Sony's part is too much for some. Guess this one will be another VICE article into he ignore list, but at least this one isn't because of death threats and the like. That is refreshing, I guess
acting like it's the end of the world and framing Sony as a cartoonish villainous conglomerate that hates video games is a bit much.
 

HammerOfThor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,860
Because Nintendo has an amazing track record for BC.
Switch is their only console since N64 without it, and it's for hardware issues.
They most certainly don't have an "amazing" track record, or it's comparable to Sony at best.

Gamecube was playable on early Wiis. Wii was playable on WiiU.

Ps1 was playable on PS2. PS1 and PS2 were playable on early PS3. PS5 will play PS4 games.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,200
Nintendo killed their online stores for all their old platforms and I think most people don't care.

As much as I think supporting an old catalogue is a nice to have, the fact that there's a lot of software that is forever lost to time and that's just the way it is.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,932
Austin, TX
Why does Sony keep getting dragged for their lack of BC?

Last I checked, I can't play any of my N64 and Gamecube games on my Switch, and there seems to be no plans to be able to.

Lets be honest, how often are we going to be playing old games from PS3 era and earlier? I think those who really want to and will do it often enough are in the small minority, and because of that you can't blame Sony for not wanting to spend money on something they won't profit off of at all.

We also have PS Now.
If they aren't going to respect their own legacy with serious efforts toward BC, then they shouldn't make their legacy a pillar of of their marketing
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,896
My point isn't to make fun of Bluepoint, it's to make fun of Sony as a publisher for only valuing legacy content when they can pretend it's not legacy content at all and charge for it like it's a new game.

I am never going to be able to play Folklore or Wild ARMs again because Jim Ryan doesn't care about old games and they aren't important enough to him to pay someone to remake.
Your problem was the amount of hyperbole you put in your original post just to make that point. I think everyone get's it but bluepoint does an incredible job with their remakes, suggesting otherwise only muddies your argument.