Vice: Reporters and Activists Are Being Harassed for Saying Kobe Bryant Was Credibly Accused of Rape (Read Staff Posts)

[SlickShoesRUCRazy]

I debated posting or not, but decided I would. This is my opinion only. It's not meant to diminish the opinion of others.

What Kobe did to that woman was a horrendous act. It was rape. Just because he was not convicted of it, does not mean it was not rape. It was un-consensual sex. That's rape. There is no hiding the fact. There is no diminishing this act. It will always be a part of Kobe's legacy whether or not he was convicted for it.
Unfortunately we live in a country where being white and/or wealthy generally makes you immune to facing repercussions for criminal acts outside of murder, and even then, it is very likely that people walk if they are white and/or wealthy. Kobe should have faced more serious punishment, but likely because of his fame/wealth, he got a slap on the wrist.

That being said, I think though Kobe knew what he did was unconscionable. I don't know Kobe personally. I'm not even basketball fan. All I can go off of is what we see of him in the public eye. But coming into a thread literally an hour after he died along with his 13 year-old daughter to simply say he is a rapist is cold.

I think he appreciated his luck when so many black men/other minorities do not get the same slap on the wrist after being accused of rape. I think ever since he has tried to do right by his daughters and other girls/women through what he knows, basketball. Again, I don't know Kobe personally. I don't know him other what we see in the public eye. But from what I have seen, he loved his daughters and wanted to do right by them. He wanted to empower them. Even creating an entire org meant to empower girl/women athletes(Yes, I know his org is for everybody).

Some people change, some people don't. We see many people escape punishment for their heinous acts without any self re-evaluation and attempt to do better. I personally don't think Kobe was one of those.

I think Kobe's lasting legacy will end up doing more to empower women/women athletes than 99.9% of of the people in this forum will do in their lifetime simply sitting behind a keyboard calling him a rapist while never actually lifting a finger to empower women.

Again, I am not trying to diminish others opinions, just my 2 cents.

 

[Darksol]

I don't have a problem with people bringing it up when discussing his life and career as a whole, as you would when any celebrity dies. It was seeing people's immediate reaction to his and his daughter's death being "He's a rapist but he can put a ball in a hope so he's a hero hur dur" on twitter which was kind of infuriating, like give it a day maybe, it was single digit hours from when it happened and I was seeing stuff like that.

A person isn't the summation of the worst things they've ever done, that doesn't mean you sweep it under the rug, but I'm willing to accept that a person can do a terrible thing give an apology, take action in their lives, and 17 years later after being a father of four girls be a changed person. Your hot takes about your indifference to a tragedy doesn't serve anyone, including the victim. Definitely understand showing support for the victim when doing the same for Bryant's family this is probably a very hard time for them so I understand that.

Click to shrink...

You're not in the memorial thread, you're in the Kobe is a rapist thread.

Nobody is obliged to hold off on calling a rapist a rapist.

 

[Darksol]

That being said, I think though Kobe knew what he did was unconscionable. I don't know Kobe personally. I'm not even basketball fan. All I can go off of is what we see of him in the public eye. But coming into a thread literally an hour after he died along with his 13 year-old daughter to simply say he is a rapist is cold.

Click to shrink...

Colder than being a rapist? He seemed to live fine after raping, I think I can have a clear conscience calling him a rapist shortly after his death.

 

[Distantmantra]

Did Kobe ever do anything for organizations that dealt with sexual violence or violence toward women? Or push for teaching young people about the importance of consent? It's those kind of actions that are really meaningful following that kind of behavior, especially based off his apology statement from back in the day.

 

[GYODX]

The fact that he raped someone should not be glossed over, but that doesn't mean his death isn't worth being grieved or that people should feel guilty or be shamed for for grieving his death. If you believe in a rehabilitative rather than punitive justice system, then you should be receptive to this idea as well.

In the sense that we could consider a person who was sentenced to prison for murder "rehabilitated" if they don't go on to commit any more violent crimes upon release, then someone who accepts responsibility for having committed rape, turns their life around, and doesn't commit more violent sexual crimes could also be considered "rehabilitated". By all accounts, Kobe accepted responsibility for his actions, turned his life around, did a lot of good for his community, and was never again accused of rape.

 

[SlickShoesRUCRazy]

Colder than being a rapist? He seemed to live fine after raping, I think I can have a clear conscience calling him a rapist shortly after his death.

Click to shrink...

You're entitled to your opinion. Like I stated, my intent was not to change others opinions.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

In the sense that we could consider a person who was sentenced to prison for murder "rehabilitated" if they don't go on to commit any more violent crimes upon release, then someone who accepts responsibility for having committed rape, turns their life around, and doesn't commit more violent sexual crimes could also be considered "rehabilitated". By all accounts, Kobe accepted responsibility for his actions, turned his life around, and did a lot of good for his community.

Click to shrink...

So exactly what sentence did Kobe serve in this alternate universe where he accepted responsibility? I'm very curious, because in this reality he dragged his victim through the mud until she accepted a settlement to make him stop, avoided accepting responsibility, silenced her to this very day, and moved on as if it never happened.

 

[Mekanos]

I know this is a predominantly white forum, so I'm sure this will go over like a lead balloon but we know why it's different. It's ridiculous that people don't seem to be able to even consider why some black people may take a sideways glance at this shit. It's not like there isn't a history in America of black men being completely fucked over and railroaded for even looking at white women. It's not like there is not real historical context for that shit even up to the present. So am I saying he was innocent? Of course not. I don't know I wasn't there, but I know about America's history when it comes to this kind of thing.

So yeah while this may be part of his legacy, Kobe meant a lot to the black community and black families, he did a lot for us, and so yeah we will mourn him and feel for him and his family. It has nothing to do with not caring about victims. So keep that white liberal talking point to yourself.

Click to shrink...

So... what is the takeaway here? Because of the history of racism we should be nicer when talking about black rapists? Kobe admitted to it and effectively got a slap on the wrist, and continued to play and live his life as a beloved icon around the world. He's getting an outpouring of love around the media. Don't act like his legacy is being buried.

There's a whole thread dedicated to mourning and celebrating Kobe if you don't like that people are discussing this aspect.

 

[NineConsonants]

I think it's important to realize that Kobe's public forgiveness was not the product of him doing amazing work to help the public. Kobe being forgiven by the public is because of his status and the fact that this took place during the early 2000s.

imagine if an equivalent young star to him like Giannis was accused of rape and he made the same defense of "I honestly thought she consented, but I understand now that she did not". If that happened in 2020, it would not be forgiven as easily as it was for Kobe. So it's better to not rewrite history by pretending Kobe somehow redeemed himself through his good deeds

 

[Deception]

I think it's important to realize that Kobe's public forgiveness was not the product of him doing amazing work to help the public. Kobe being forgiven by the public is because of his status and the fact that this took place during the early 2000s.

imagine if an equivalent young star to him like Giannis was accused of rape and he made the same defense of "I honestly thought she consented, but I understand now that she did not". If that happened in 2020, it would not be forgiven as easily as it was for Kobe. So it's better to not rewrite history by pretending Kobe somehow redeemed himself through his good deeds

Click to shrink...

Well, Cristiano Ronaldo just had the same thing happen to him last year and has pretty much came out of the situation unscathed. Truth is, extremely popular/talented people will also come out situations like that easier than people who aren't.

 

[Precious Tritium]

You're not in the memorial thread, you're in the Kobe is a rapist thread.

Nobody is obliged to hold off on calling a rapist a rapist.

Click to shrink...

I'm talking about hours after they died on twitter not posters in this thread.

 

[RedMercury]

The fact that he raped someone should not be glossed over, but that doesn't mean his death isn't worth being grieved or that people should feel guilty or be shamed for for grieving his death. If you believe in a rehabilitative rather than punitive justice system, then you should be receptive to this idea as well.

Click to shrink...

Keep in mind that people have different perspectives of what rehabilitation is or to what extent it plays a role in supporting a person. Everyone has their own personal line depending on a multitude of factors. If you are a rape victim or an advocate against rape or know a rape victim for example, of course you may be of the mind that there *is* no rehabilitation, and that is a reasonable position because who has the right to tell a victim otherwise? Also remember that nobody is entitled to support, nobody is entitled to be grieved for, or forgiveness. And, I don't think comparing it to the justice system when we're talking about a social lens is really a solid argument, people can have different opinions on those things without being hypocritical.

 

[Falchion]

Yeah Kobe's legacy isn't spotless for sure.

 

[Zaiven]

The problem with Kobe's case is that it combines two extremely emotional issues--sports fanaticism and sexual trauma--along with a dose of good, old-fashioned racism. Some people are simply not gonna want to talk about anything bad regarding Kobe 'cause they're too emotionally invested in him as a basketball player. Similarly, some people are gonna have a tough time saying anything good about him because of his 2003 rape case. There're also people who hate Kobe as a basketball player and don't care beans about the rape. And then there's some who are simply nettled that a high-profile black man is getting so much attention in death.

All of these issues are very emotional and strike deep in the hearts of many people. So it's going to be difficult to have a good conversation about this.

 

[@dedmunk]

the first thought that popped into my head when i saw the story was "thats the rape guy", sad about his daughter, he was not a legend in my eyes.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I think Kobe's lasting legacy will end up doing more to empower women/women athletes than 99.9% of of the people in this forum will do in their lifetime simply sitting behind a keyboard calling him a rapist while never actually lifting a finger to empower women.

Again, I am not trying to diminish others opinions, just my 2 cents

Click to shrink...

Are you sure you're not trying to diminish others opinions here?

 

[Deleted member 18502]

Treating Kobe as a deity is a just too much for me. So interesting who is forgiven and who isn't. Other rapists won't have the red carpet rolled out for them here. And let's be clear, we do not know if there are other victims, I hope not.

 

[Powdered Egg]

I debated posting or not, but decided I would. This is my opinion only. It's not meant to diminish the opinion of others.

What Kobe did to that woman was a horrendous act. It was rape. Just because he was not convicted of it, does not mean it was not rape. It was un-consensual sex. That's rape. There is no hiding the fact. There is no diminishing this act. It will always be a part of Kobe's legacy whether or not he was convicted for it.
Unfortunately we live in a country where being white and/or wealthy generally makes you immune to facing repercussions for criminal acts outside of murder, and even then, it is very likely that people walk if they are white and/or wealthy. Kobe should have faced more serious punishment, but likely because of his fame/wealth, he got a slap on the wrist.

That being said, I think though Kobe knew what he did was unconscionable. I don't know Kobe personally. I'm not even basketball fan. All I can go off of is what we see of him in the public eye. But coming into a thread literally an hour after he died along with his 13 year-old daughter to simply say he is a rapist is cold.

I think he appreciated his luck when so many black men/other minorities do not get the same slap on the wrist after being accused of rape. I think ever since he has tried to do right by his daughters and other girls/women through what he knows, basketball. Again, I don't know Kobe personally. I don't know him other what we see in the public eye. But from what I have seen, he loved his daughters and wanted to do right by them. He wanted to empower them. Even creating an entire org meant to empower girl/women athletes(Yes, I know his org is for everybody).

Some people change, some people don't. We see many people escape punishment for their heinous acts without any self re-evaluation and attempt to do better. I personally don't think Kobe was one of those.

I think Kobe's lasting legacy will end up doing more to empower women/women athletes than 99.9% of of the people in this forum will do in their lifetime simply sitting behind a keyboard calling him a rapist while never actually lifting a finger to empower women.

Again, I am not trying to diminish others opinions, just my 2 cents.

Click to shrink...

Kobe had the talent and the net worth to empower more women than folks here. That's the main difference. If he was not a celebrity, he would probably have been a bitter ex-felon complaining about "bitches these days".

 

[ShortNasty]

Kobe had the talent and the net worth to empower more women than folks here. That's the main difference. If he was not a celebrity, he would probably have been a bitter ex-felon complaining about "bitches these days".

Click to shrink...

It's always very strange to see people absolutely sure that the anonymous people they yell at on the internet are "not" attempting to do anything to improve society.

 

[Uncivilized Elk]

I don't follow sports and knew nothing of Kobe beyond he played basketball.

Only learned he was a rapist after he died.

 

[Syriel]

The Washington Post has rescinded the suspension of its reporter for posting a tweet about Bryant's past rape.

 

[Blackie]

His life should be remembered in full, the good and bad. We cannot re-write history. I was hoping he wanted to be redeemed. Becoming an advocate for his daughters, community organizations, arguing for women as equal athletes, etc. I was rooting for Gianna to become his basketball heir, and his daughters to outshine him :(

 

[clearacell]

Him doing many great things on and off the court and being an accused rapist can both be true...dont let his life be focused on one or the other to form your entire opinion of him. just like any other human.

 

[Netherscourge]

He was never punished for his crime.

That's what is holding so many people back from celebrating his life. He did something unforgivable and got away with it.

That shouldn't be ignored and it absolutely should stain his legacy.

 

[Spinluck]

Kobe had the talent and the net worth to empower more women than folks here. That's the main difference. If he was not a celebrity, he would probably have been a bitter ex-felon complaining about "bitches these days".

Click to shrink...

It's amazing the kind of whataboutism that is allowed on here.

A lot of you are full of shit.

 

[Spinluck]

The problem with Kobe's case is that it combines two extremely emotional issues--sports fanaticism and sexual trauma--along with a dose of good, old-fashioned racism. Some people are simply not gonna want to talk about anything bad regarding Kobe 'cause they're too emotionally invested in him as a basketball player. Similarly, some people are gonna have a tough time saying anything good about him because of his 2003 rape case. There're also people who hate Kobe as a basketball player and don't care beans about the rape. And then there's some who are simply nettled that a high-profile black man is getting so much attention in death.

All of these issues are very emotional and strike deep in the hearts of many people. So it's going to be difficult to have a good conversation about this.

Click to shrink...

Great post.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

It's amazing the kind of whataboutism that is allowed on here.

A lot of you are full of shit.

Click to shrink...

When the guy admitted it, that's pretty much all you got left to stan for him.
Same shit with cristiano ronaldo.

 

[Kitsunebaby]

It's 5 in the morning and I'm exhausted so apologies if this post seems jumbled, but I've been frustrated as hell since reading the Kobe memorial thread yesterday.

I have absolutely no problem with people who enjoy and appreciate Kobe's lifetime of achievements, and want to celebrate him. I've enjoyed plenty of artists who are guilty of rape or other heinous crimes. Hell, Jimmy Page is one of my favorite guitarists. But much as I love his art and his work, I would never in a million years seek to downplay his crime.

People didn't just downplay Kobe's rape in the memorial thread. There were a ton of posters who reacted with absolute rage at anyone who brought it up. People who demanded that anyone who mentioned it be banned. People who clearly felt they were morally right to do so. And that is supremely fucked up.

How the fuck can you get that angry at people for being "disrespectful" after a celebrity's death by bringing up their past, but you have no anger to spare towards the person who violated a woman's body and then used his wealth and rabid fan base to harass her into silence in order to avoid paying for his crime? If you have more anger towards Kobe's detractors than you do towards the rape he committed, you are helping to enable our culture of rape and misogyny. How fucking dare you claim that you care about women, that you care about victims of sexual violence, when your empathy goes out the window the moment it gets in the way of your hero worship.

 

[Deleted member 12224]

It's 5 in the morning and I'm exhausted so apologies if this post seems jumbled, but I've been frustrated as hell since reading the Kobe memorial thread yesterday.

I have absolutely no problem with people who enjoy and appreciate Kobe's lifetime of achievements, and want to celebrate him. I've enjoyed plenty of artists who are guilty of rape or other heinous crimes. Hell, Jimmy Page is one of my favorite guitarists. But much as I love his art and his work, I would never in a million years seek to downplay his crime.

People didn't just downplay Kobe's rape in the memorial thread. There were a ton of posters who reacted with absolute rage at anyone who brought it up. People who demanded that anyone who mentioned it be banned. People who clearly felt they were morally right to do so. And that is supremely fucked up.

How the fuck can you get that angry at people for being "disrespectful" after a celebrity's death by bringing up their past, but you have no anger to spare towards the person who violated a woman's body and then used his wealth and rabid fan base to harass her into silence in order to avoid paying for his crime? If you have more anger towards Kobe's detractors than you do towards the rape he committed, you are helping to enable our culture of rape and misogyny. How fucking dare you claim that you care about women, that you care about victims of sexual violence, when your empathy goes out the window the moment it gets in the way of your hero worship.

Click to shrink...

https://slate.com/podcasts/hang-up-...-and-off-court-legacies-on-hang-up-and-listen

You would enjoy the last discussion segment that starts around ~37 minutes or so with regards to your last paragraph.

 

[Spinluck]

https://slate.com/podcasts/hang-up-...-and-off-court-legacies-on-hang-up-and-listen

You would enjoy the last discussion segment that starts around ~37 minutes or so with regards to your last paragraph.

Click to shrink...

This was a great listen and had a ton of perspective on the matter.

To be blunt, Kobe did rape this woman. To follow up on that, he mistook certain things he saw as "signs" as consent. Listening to his statement that was also seemingly a confession, it is pretty clear how ignorant he was on the matter of what consent actually is.

It's a shame because I would've really wanted to see him rectify or address this situation while he was alive instead of essentially saying, "yeah, I can see how just because I wanted to do it doesn't mean she did." Even up to that point he doesn't really see that he is completely in the wrong and I get the, "she lead me on" vibe from it.

Also, him saying all that, "I should've done what Shaq does and buy them things to keep quiet" is a pretty shitty thing to say at the time. Like dude they ain't investigating Shaq they investigating you. Anyway, just wanted to say my piece on it even though I don't really feel bad for people having their integrity questioned for bringing this up less than 24hrs after and comparing him up serial offenders like Trump, Cosby, or Weinstein.

 

[Surfinn]

This was a great listen and had a ton of perspective on the matter.

To be blunt, Kobe did rape this woman. To follow up on that, he mistook certain things he saw as "signs" as consent. Listening to his statement that was also seemingly a confession, it is pretty clear how ignorant he was on the matter of what consent actually is.

It's a shame because I would've really wanted to see him rectify or address this situation while he was alive instead of essentially saying, "yeah, I can see how just because I wanted to do it doesn't mean she did." Even up to that point he doesn't really see that he is completely in the wrong and I get the, "she lead me on" vibe from it.

Also, him saying all that, "I should've done what Shaq does and buy them things to keep quiet" is a pretty shitty thing to say at the time. Like dude they ain't investigating Shaq they investigating you. Anyway, just wanted to say my piece on it even though I don't really feel bad for people having their integrity questioned for bringing this up less than 24hrs after and comparing him up serial offenders like Trump, Cosby, or Weinstein.

Click to shrink...

Wait what

 

[Spinluck]

Wait what

Click to shrink...

And in another supplemental report in Bryant's case file, he chose to invoke Shaquille O'Neal's name during the investigation—for reasons unclear.

According to the police report, while he was being questioned by the officers about the alleged sexual assault, Bryant said, "I should have done what Shaq does," adding, "Shaq gives them money or buys them cars, he has already spent one million dollars." The report added, "Kobe stated that Shaq does this to keep the girls quiet."

Click to shrink...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-...ce-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession

 

[Surfinn]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-...ce-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession

Click to shrink...

Wow uh.. I must have missed this one

 

[Deleted member 12224]

This was a great listen and had a ton of perspective on the matter.

To be blunt, Kobe did rape this woman. To follow up on that, he mistook certain things he saw as "signs" as consent. Listening to his statement that was also seemingly a confession, it is pretty clear how ignorant he was on the matter of what consent actually is.

It's a shame because I would've really wanted to see him rectify or address this situation while he was alive instead of essentially saying, "yeah, I can see how just because I wanted to do it doesn't mean she did." Even up to that point he doesn't really see that he is completely in the wrong and I get the, "she lead me on" vibe from it.

Also, him saying all that, "I should've done what Shaq does and buy them things to keep quiet" is a pretty shitty thing to say at the time.

Click to shrink...

Agreed on all fronts.

I'm grappling with this topic because of conversations I've had in my household, and listening to that episode of Hang Up & Listen this morning was eye-opening because the last guest put into words a lot that I've wrestled with but couldn't say as eloquently.

To me, Kobe is first and foremost a legendary athlete, meme'd mythological shot taker, famously asshole-ish teammate, etc. I see him second as being a rapist, an auteur, a seemingly cool dad to his daughters, etc. This is because I'm a sports obsessive, and while I'm not deifying athletes (I'll talk about LT like the god he was on-field; but off-field, fuck him), I'm going to think of most athletes as athletes first, off-field stuff second.

For my wife, pop culture obsessive but not much of sports fan, Kobe is, first and foremost, a rapist. For her, she sees him second as the guy who spent $4 million on an apology ring for his wife when he was found to have raped a 19 year old and it went public, and last he's the guy who helped crush her Nets in 2002.

She's not wrong. I'm not wrong.

Initially our conversations about his death the second the news broke, besides the shock of the plane crash, were wild. I was upset! I'm a sports fan. Kobe's gone? Kobe?! Mamba just retired a minute ago. My wife was annoyed at my reaction. She largely didn't give a fuck about him. The others that perished, sure, but not Kobe. Why, I asked. He's a rapist. I found her reaction annoying, too. My immediate response was to say "well, yeah, but he's also a lot more than a rapist." And after I talked about Kobe for a few minutes, I stopped and said "...it's kinda ridiculous that I just said 'well yeah he's a rapist but...' like it's nothing, isn't it."

I can't begrudge or get annoyed at someone who views Kobe Bryant's life and death largely through the prism of his sexual assault. Like that woman said at the end of the podcast episode, to do so is to say that someone's concern about him raping a woman is inconvenient to me, and that making me inconvenienced in my celebrating/mourning the man is more important than the other person's legitimate opinions on Kobe Bryant as a rapist.

 

[Spinluck]

Agreed on all fronts.

I'm grappling with this topic because of conversations I've had in my household, and listening to that episode of Hang Up & Listen this morning was eye-opening because the last guest put into words a lot that I've wrestled with but couldn't say as eloquently.

To me, Kobe is first and foremost a legendary athlete, meme'd mythological shot taker, famously asshole-ish teammate, etc. I see him second as being a rapist, an auteur, a seemingly cool dad to his daughters, etc. This is because I'm a sports obsessive, and while I'm not deifying athletes (I'll talk about LT like the god he was on-field; but off-field, fuck him), I'm going to think of most athletes as athletes first, off-field stuff second.

For my wife, pop culture obsessive but not much of sports fan, Kobe is, first and foremost, a rapist. For her, she sees him second as the guy who spent $4 million on an apology ring for his wife when he was found to have raped a 19 year old and it went public, and last he's the guy who helped crush her Nets in 2002.

She's not wrong. I'm not wrong.

Initially our conversations about his death the second the news broke, besides the shock of the plane crash, were wild. I was upset! I'm a sports fan. Kobe's gone? Kobe?! Mamba just retired a minute ago. My wife was annoyed at my reaction. She largely didn't give a fuck about him. The others that perished, sure, but not Kobe. Why, I asked. He's a rapist. I found her reaction annoying, too. My immediate response was to say "well, yeah, but he's also a lot more than a rapist." And after I talked about Kobe for a few minutes, I stopped and said "...it's kinda ridiculous that I just said 'well yeah he's a rapist but...' like it's nothing, isn't it."

I can't begrudge or get annoyed at someone who views Kobe Bryant's life and death largely through the prism of his sexual assault. Like that woman said at the end of the podcast episode, to do so is to say that someone's concern about him raping a woman is inconvenient to me, and that making me inconvenienced in my celebrating/mourning the man is more important than the other person's legitimate opinions on Kobe Bryant as a rapist.

Click to shrink...

Very very well put.

Huge sports here as well, and I admire Bryant for his career and ungodly work ethic. I became more and more likeable towards the end of his career and was full on dad mode after retirement. It was great to see him flourishing after basketball.

But the ugly side of his legacy is still part of his legacy. Who am I to be upset about how people decide to remember him? Many different things are intersecting in wake of this, maybe in time these discussions won't be as messy or muddled as they are now.

 

[ShortNasty]

Very very well put.

Huge sports here as well, and I admire Bryant for his career and ungodly work ethic. I became more and more likeable towards the end of his career and was full on dad mode after retirement. It was great to see him flourishing after basketball.

But the ugly side of his legacy is still part of his legacy. Who am I to be upset about how people decide to remember him? Many different things are intersecting in wake of this, maybe in time these discussions won't be as messy or muddled as they are now.

Click to shrink...

The problem I have with his legacy, or at least the part I keep thinking about, is that the 24/Mamba portion was a rebrand to move perception past the "Ugly" side. I know more about the personal life and activity of his accuser/victim than I do of most of my friends from that time. In order for Kobe to be clean someone had to get dragged through the absolute dirt, which is essentially what happened to Ms. Sonmez as well.

 

[Sacul64]

I find it telling that people in the memorial topic almost only mention the other victims as the reason you cant mention Kobe's rape.

 

[TheOMan]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-...ce-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession

Click to shrink...

Woooooooooooooow.

 

[Adventureracing]

I debated posting or not, but decided I would. This is my opinion only. It's not meant to diminish the opinion of others.

What Kobe did to that woman was a horrendous act. It was rape. Just because he was not convicted of it, does not mean it was not rape. It was un-consensual sex. That's rape. There is no hiding the fact. There is no diminishing this act. It will always be a part of Kobe's legacy whether or not he was convicted for it.
Unfortunately we live in a country where being white and/or wealthy generally makes you immune to facing repercussions for criminal acts outside of murder, and even then, it is very likely that people walk if they are white and/or wealthy. Kobe should have faced more serious punishment, but likely because of his fame/wealth, he got a slap on the wrist.

That being said, I think though Kobe knew what he did was unconscionable. I don't know Kobe personally. I'm not even basketball fan. All I can go off of is what we see of him in the public eye. But coming into a thread literally an hour after he died along with his 13 year-old daughter to simply say he is a rapist is cold.

I think he appreciated his luck when so many black men/other minorities do not get the same slap on the wrist after being accused of rape. I think ever since he has tried to do right by his daughters and other girls/women through what he knows, basketball. Again, I don't know Kobe personally. I don't know him other what we see in the public eye. But from what I have seen, he loved his daughters and wanted to do right by them. He wanted to empower them. Even creating an entire org meant to empower girl/women athletes(Yes, I know his org is for everybody).

Some people change, some people don't. We see many people escape punishment for their heinous acts without any self re-evaluation and attempt to do better. I personally don't think Kobe was one of those.

I think Kobe's lasting legacy will end up doing more to empower women/women athletes than 99.9% of of the people in this forum will do in their lifetime simply sitting behind a keyboard calling him a rapist while never actually lifting a finger to empower women.

Again, I am not trying to diminish others opinions, just my 2 cents.

Click to shrink...

I know you were banned for this but what a fucking awful post this is. I hope you actually take the time to reflect and appreciate how stupid this take is.

It's 5 in the morning and I'm exhausted so apologies if this post seems jumbled, but I've been frustrated as hell since reading the Kobe memorial thread yesterday.

I have absolutely no problem with people who enjoy and appreciate Kobe's lifetime of achievements, and want to celebrate him. I've enjoyed plenty of artists who are guilty of rape or other heinous crimes. Hell, Jimmy Page is one of my favorite guitarists. But much as I love his art and his work, I would never in a million years seek to downplay his crime.

People didn't just downplay Kobe's rape in the memorial thread. There were a ton of posters who reacted with absolute rage at anyone who brought it up. People who demanded that anyone who mentioned it be banned. People who clearly felt they were morally right to do so. And that is supremely fucked up.

How the fuck can you get that angry at people for being "disrespectful" after a celebrity's death by bringing up their past, but you have no anger to spare towards the person who violated a woman's body and then used his wealth and rabid fan base to harass her into silence in order to avoid paying for his crime? If you have more anger towards Kobe's detractors than you do towards the rape he committed, you are helping to enable our culture of rape and misogyny. How fucking dare you claim that you care about women, that you care about victims of sexual violence, when your empathy goes out the window the moment it gets in the way of your hero worship.

Click to shrink...

Spot fucking on.

 

[Deleted member 23850]

Nevermind. Pretty obvious that this dude's argument was bad, but the bias of it being posted in the R/lakers subreddit was obvious.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

https://old.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/evtov3/because_of_the_recent_flooding_of_kobes_rape/

Click to shrink...

Good luck with that one.

 

[Muffin]

https://old.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/evtov3/because_of_the_recent_flooding_of_kobes_rape/

Click to shrink...

A reddit post full of slutshaming and so on, while we have Kobe admitting to it. Shameful.

 

[Dynedom]

https://old.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/evtov3/because_of_the_recent_flooding_of_kobes_rape/

Thoughts on this post?

Click to shrink...

Disgusting

 

[chandlerbing55]

https://old.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/evtov3/because_of_the_recent_flooding_of_kobes_rape/

Thoughts on this post?

Click to shrink...

"Kobe's lawyers were allowed, by the judge, to bring up Faber's name. "
wrong, they were not allowed to mention her by name, and were repeatedly scolded by the judge whenever they kept saying it (check the court transcript)

"The accuser had sex hours after her encounter with Kobe Bryant."
wrong, she had sex with someone before the encounter. kobe's team tried to claim because she had another mans semen on her panties that if it was a previous encounter it would have to show up on kobe's clothing too (which they found none). but that seems dubious, if kobe's shirt or pants dont touch the panties how is any dna transferred, i mean im no dna scientist but the claim sounds weak

"The accuser lied and changed her story multiple times."
she lied about why she came to work late (slept in instead of car trouble), and lied that kobe forced her to wash her face (she wiped her mascara instead). hardly trial-changing facts here

and then the post has like a bunch of articles that have shoddy sources like all the "friend saw her do this, said this, looked normal" stuff is kind of suspect.

 

[Deleted member 8166]

A reddit post full of slutshaming and so on, while we have Kobe admitting to it. Shameful.

Click to shrink...

Exactly.
disgusting.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

https://old.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/evtov3/because_of_the_recent_flooding_of_kobes_rape/

Thoughts on this post?

Click to shrink...

Disgusting misogynist reddit post that I'm not even sure why you'd share that here?

 

[Deleted member 2809]

Disgusting misogynist reddit post that I'm not even sure why you'd share that here?

Click to shrink...

Dude has a lakers banner and this post is on the lakers sub
Not hard to grasp
Btw his post originally didn't have "thoughts on this post?". He pretty much agrees with the takes in there.

What i noticed in the past 5 days on social media feeds.

1) it started off with several women on my timeline stating "don't forget he was a rapist" and of course they were met with the same remarks you had here.

2) 5 days later the "Kobe was a rapist and shouldn't be worshipped" memes are being peddled by people who are definitely right wing / trump supporting people because .....he is black? That's what I'm assuming. So it's been weaponized by the right and you see it a lot more on social media now.

Click to shrink...

The right must be so fucking torn rn because they love stanning rapists

 

[TheGhost]

What i noticed in the past 5 days on social media feeds.

1) it started off with several women on my timeline stating "don't forget he was a rapist" and of course they were met with the same remarks you had here.

2) 5 days later the "Kobe was a rapist and shouldn't be worshipped" memes are being peddled by people who are definitely right wing / trump supporting people because .....he is black? That's what I'm assuming. So it's been weaponized by the right and you see it a lot more on social media now.

 

[16bits]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-...ce-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession

Click to shrink...

I've never seen that report before, absolutely shocking.


I understand that many fans idolize this sportsman, but i will never able to get past what he did to that young woman.

Bryant is not the last and will not be the last person to be in this situation. A rapist who gets a bye just because of who they are. Who fans will continue to idolize and actively ignore or worse, dismiss, their crimes.

I imagine its because of who they are that they think they can treat, and violate, another human in such a way.

What is interesting, and probably for another topic, is who gets a bye and who doesn't.

Jackson
Bryant
Ronaldo
Bowie
Polanski
Allen
Andrew Windsor
Bill Wyman
et al

 

[Deleted member 23850]

Dude has a lakers banner and this post is on the lakers sub
Not hard to grasp
Btw his post originally didn't have "thoughts on this post?". He pretty much agrees with the takes in there.

The right must be so fucking torn rn because they love stanning rapists

Click to shrink...

I only put that on there because I realized that my original post didn't really reflect what I thought about the post...which was I wasn't sure what to think about it to begin with. I wouldn't post something like this here without realizing that it's open to interpretation and I would be inviting people to give their honest opinions and viewpoints, especially when it concerns something as serious and sensitive as the topic at hand.