Vice: Reporters and Activists Are Being Harassed for Saying Kobe Bryant Was Credibly Accused of Rape (Read Staff Posts)

[DiK4]

He admitted he choked her, he admitted it wasn't consensual, he used his money and power to silence her. The rape was real, it happened.

As for the idea of court and public opinion, Al Capone was a gangster, not just a guy who didn't pay his taxes. Fact of the matter is that discussion around sexual consent was way more pre-historic in 2003 than it was today.

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Never said it didn't happen. Just that when cases are settled it tends to overshadow what actually happened, versus it going to trial and a judge saying you are guilty, you are going to jail.

The details of Kobe's case were overshadowed by the fact it was settled. You're saying things he said he did that I didn't even know about. I believe you.

But I feel like details like the ones you mentioned get lost because a lot of media groups at the time didn't make those things known, whereas if a judge had slammed the gavel down and sent him to jail we all would have known.

As for the Capone comparison I don't really get it. It's like bringing up that Bonnie and Clyde were murderous thugs that many of the public worshipped even after their deaths.

Though I agree that the way things were done in 2003 are definitely different than now. Not sure if its better or worse considering our president. Probably just more of the same, rich people getting away with devilish things. Some change, some never do.

 

[Syriel]

I have zero problems with the rape being brought up and it being a topic we're talking about now or any other time...

I mean last night and reading through this topic I really feel horrible and like an asshole for paying tribute to Kobe and being as upset as I was.

I don't know, always been a Lakers fan and I loved Kobe's game...the rape will always be there though and I'll never try to bury or dismiss it.

I just feel like a real dumbass.

Fuck off to those who made death threats towards that reporter, they should be arrested and charged.

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It is OK, normal even, to have conflicting feelings. It doesn't mean you are a bad person.

 

[foggy]

As for the Capone comparison I don't really get it. It's like bringing up that Bonnie and Clyde were murderous thugs that many of the public worshipped even after their deaths.

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It was mostly in response to you saying how public opinion is shaped by how things play out legally. It can often be the case but it's not an absolute rule when it comes to how people react.

Capone was a murderous gangster, but never convicted as one. Kobe raped someone but was never convicted for it. People can recognize people for what they've done regardless of legal fallout. People do have that in them to recognize it.

I'm not blind to why people compartmentalize Kobe but not Capone. Do the good things done justify the compartmentalization? For the folks that it does, I can only hope they can reckon with just how much good will and smiles and accolades it takes to sand off the edges of raping someone.

 

[Jerm411]

It is OK, normal even, to have conflicting feelings. It doesn't mean you are a bad person.

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Thanks, I appreciate that.

 

[M.J.]

Nightly News was so far up Kobe's ass this evening. They spent 15 minutes on him and about 2 minutes on the 75th anniversary of the liberation at Auschwitz. What the actual hell?

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Is it baffling or wrong for people to memorialize a public figure? Now if they went on in the middle of that 15 minutes and said "We must remind you, Kobe Bryant raped a 19 year old and settled the case out of court", and went back to the memorial, you'd have a problem on your hands, like the WaPo author in the OP. Timing and nuance matter.

Still, if the Nightly News did it that way, and the producer or anchor was fired, they wouldn't deserve to be harassed or threatened by the public, nor would the message be any less valid. That should be so clear, but people who would use their "fandom" as an excuse to make death threats are terrible humans.

 

[rycisko]

The MJ comparisons in this thread are fucking ridiculous. Kobe was slammed in the media for this one at the time, he did not look good even after the settlement. But I'd like to think in my heart the reason why we keep reading about all these great "dad stories" about Kobe is because he used that 2nd chance to become a better person, a better husband, a better dad.

Everyone deserves a chance at redemption. Just as every reserves their right to not forgive him, that's your choice as well. But 18 pages about the topic is kind of gross. Off for the night after this one....

 

[yurr]

I just don't understand how any message they are trying to send could be a good one? What I get from someone tweeting that during the immediate aftermath is "don't be sad he died, he was a rapist". I also have no idea how to feel about that that message. I guess at the end of the day I just find the timing to be in poor taste.

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That is the only message that comes from it. They didn't seek to remind us he was a rapist yesterday. Or when he retired. Or on the anniversary of the allegation. Or when he won an Oscar. They choose to bring it up when he died, I'm not blaming anyone for despising the man for what he did, but stop pretending your point is not "don't be sad he died, he was a rapist". That is your point/opinion and you are entitled to it. Lie to yourselves but you're not about to lie to me.

 

[BAD]

The obvious inference from that statement is that he FEELS she did consent. Regardless of your opinions of the case, it's written very quite unambiguously

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What in the world? Him feeling like she consented doesn't mean she consented, and he admits he knows her lack of consent. "I feel like you consent so I decided I can have sex with you" is braindead and not how consent works. If she knows she wasn't ok with where it went, and he admits that to be true, it's rape. He raped her.

 

[n00bs7ay3r]

That is the only message that comes from it. They didn't seek to remind us he was a rapist yesterday. Or when he retired. Or on the anniversary of the allegation. Or when he won an Oscar. They choose to bring it up when he died, I'm not blaming anyone for despising the man for what he did, but stop pretending your point is not "don't be sad he died, he was a rapist". That is your point/opinion and you are entitled to it. Lie to yourselves but you're not about to lie to me.

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The message is "be sad that he died if you want but just know you are glorifying a rapist."

 

[yurr]

The message is "be sad that he died if you want but just know you are glorifying a rapist."

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So then, conversely, "don't be sad that he died so you are not glorifying a rapist" which is the same thing as I stated but a play on words. I'm not here for a semantic argument just calling spades a spade. I know he fucked up and nobody can right what he did, I know It can be seen as f'd up to his victim that he is being remembered all over the media. Now why can some of y'all admit your "and nothing was lost" stand on the mans death instead of being disingenuous.

 

[Laughing Banana]

"He 'feels" she did consent."

Holy shit do some of you hear what you are saying.

You know how many rapist out there would feel really happy to use such a reasoning to defend their behavior?

"But your Honor, I feel like she's not rejecting me! So it isn't rape!"

 

[M.J.]

"He 'feels" she did consent."

Holy shit do some of you hear what you are saying.

You know how many rapist out there would feel really happy to use such a reasoning to defend their behavior?

"But your Honor, I feel like she's not rejecting me! So it isn't rape!"

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Who's saying this that isn't already banned?

 

[BringBackSonics]

Nightly News was so far up Kobe's ass this evening. They spent 15 minutes on him and about 2 minutes on the 75th anniversary of the liberation at Auschwitz. What the actual hell?

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Unfortunately, the media will only report on what most Americans will care about.

It's the reality.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Who's saying this that isn't already banned?

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So what, does that change the fact that someone was actually saying it in here?

The length that some people tried to defend such a thing is incredible.

I read someone in earlier pages also said "but he wasn't charged", WTF? As if rapist, especially rich and famous ones, not getting charged is equal to them being innocent in the matter.

 

[Doran]

So what, does that change the fact that someone was actually saying it in here?

The length that some people tried to defend such a thing is incredible.

I read someone in earlier pages also said "but he wasn't charged", WTF? As if rapist, especially rich and famous ones, not getting charged is equal to them being innocent in the matter.

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Unfortunately this is disgustingly common in professional athletics and there are many, many players in multiple sports who seemingly have "gotten away with it". As a fan of these sports I do find it disheartening to say the least. Everyone has a zero tolerance policy until it affects the amount they make at the gate.

 

[yurr]

Unfortunately, the media will only report on what most Americans will care about.

It's the reality.

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I guess it's actually important to some people. I was in the hospital yesterday and a cook in the cafe was crying. I wouldn't shed a tear, nor do I understand why some people do over someone they never met/knew. I know one thing though, just because something isn't important to me doesn't invalidate it's importance to others.

 

[Fiction]

That is the only message that comes from it. They didn't seek to remind us he was a rapist yesterday. Or when he retired. Or on the anniversary of the allegation. Or when he won an Oscar. They choose to bring it up when he died, I'm not blaming anyone for despising the man for what he did, but stop pretending your point is not "don't be sad he died, he was a rapist". That is your point/opinion and you are entitled to it. Lie to yourselves but you're not about to lie to me.

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Honestly if you can't understand why women and victims would being this up while watching him be canonized in the media and everywhere read the fucking thread. I've posted enough times already maybe I should just copy paste my shit.

 

[yurr]

Honestly if you can't understand why women and victims would being this up while watching him be canonized in the media and everywhere read the fucking thread. I've posted enough times already maybe I should just copy paste my shit.

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I understand why. I just wish we would be honest about why.

 

[M.J.]

So what, does that change the fact that someone was actually saying it in here?

The length that some people tried to defend such a thing is incredible.

I read someone in earlier pages also said "but he wasn't charged", WTF? As if rapist, especially rich and famous ones, not getting charged is equal to them being innocent in the matter.

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I'm just saying like, who actually is still saying this? Because you said "do some of you hear yourselves" and I didn't know who. Still, quote them and report them so they actually know its not okay to go to ANY length to defend rape.

edit: Apologies for coming off a little heated though. You're not wrong at all in case that wasnt clear.

 

[Surfinn]

I'm just saying like, who actually is still saying this? Because you said "do some of you hear yourselves" and I didn't know who. Still, quote them and report them so they actually know its not okay to go to ANY length to defend rape.

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There have been probably 40 bans in this thread. It's not like it's one or two people, I don't see the harm in generally responding to the dozens who have parroted the same bullshit. It's not like they're severed from the site after a ban anyway. And no doubt dozens more who just aren't saying what they feel despite lurking.

 

[BAD]

I just don't understand how any message they are trying to send could be a good one? What I get from someone tweeting that during the immediate aftermath is "don't be sad he died, he was a rapist". I also have no idea how to feel about that that message. I guess at the end of the day I just find the timing to be in poor taste.

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That is the only message that comes from it. They didn't seek to remind us he was a rapist yesterday. Or when he retired. Or on the anniversary of the allegation. Or when he won an Oscar. They choose to bring it up when he died, I'm not blaming anyone for despising the man for what he did, but stop pretending your point is not "don't be sad he died, he was a rapist". That is your point/opinion and you are entitled to it. Lie to yourselves but you're not about to lie to me.

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So then, conversely, "don't be sad that he died so you are not glorifying a rapist" which is the same thing as I stated but a play on words. I'm not here for a semantic argument just calling spades a spade. I know he fucked up and nobody can right what he did, I know It can be seen as f'd up to his victim that he is being remembered all over the media. Now why can some of y'all admit your "and nothing was lost" stand on the mans death instead of being disingenuous.

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People can understand he touched many lives, while also understanding he raped someone. What good reason is there to erase it? Why should sexual assault be deleted from the record to make him look perfect in these conversations? Have respect for the people who get hurt by sexual assault. If people decide to explain his history and talk about it, there's no respectable reason they get to talk through only positive lovely successes and the sexual assault is nothing and people who mention that are frowned upon or threatened. That's terrible censorship of victims and I'd say the same if the bullshit standard was applied to Kevin Spacey or Trump or Bill Clinton or whoever else gets a bunch of stans trying to do damage control against worthwhile victim's truths.

 

[M.J.]

There have been probably 40 bans in this thread. It's not like it's one or two people, I don't see the harm in generally responding to the dozens who have parroted the same bullshit. It's not like they're severed from the site after a ban anyway. And no doubt dozens more who just aren't saying what they feel.

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Definitely. In my haste to respond, I forgot theres like 9 pages of posts where a lot of people did say exactly that same shit. No harm in it at all! Apologies if it came off too reactive.

 

[Doran]

People can understand he touched many lives, while also understanding he raped someone. What good reason is there to erase it? Why should sexual assault be deleted from the record to make him look perfect in these conversations? Have respect for the people who get hurt by sexual assault. If people decide to explain his history and talk about it, there's no respectable reason they get to talk through only positive lovely successes and the sexual assault is nothing and people who mention that are frowned upon or threatened. That's terrible censorship of victims and I'd say the same if the bullshit standard was applied to Kevin Spacey or Trump or Bill Clinton or whoever else gets a bunch of stans trying to do damage control against worthwhile victim's truths.

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That's fair. That is why I said I have no idea how to feel about that message. I don't know what some of these people have experienced or how they feel and everyone is entitled to say what they need to say. There is no right answer here other than people are entitled to express their feelings and others are entitled to feel it is in poor taste because that is the father of the little girl who is also dead and the rest of the family will likely see the negative coverage as well. Definitely am not defending his actions or trying to cover them up in any way.

 

[Surfinn]

Definitely. In my haste to respond, I forgot theres like 9 pages of posts where a lot of people did say exactly that same shit. No harm in it at all! Apologies if it came off too reactive.

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No problem.

 

[base_two]

The MJ comparisons in this thread are fucking ridiculous. Kobe was slammed in the media for this one at the time, he did not look good even after the settlement. But I'd like to think in my heart the reason why we keep reading about all these great "dad stories" about Kobe is because he used that 2nd chance to become a better person, a better husband, a better dad.

Everyone deserves a chance at redemption. Just as every reserves their right to not forgive him, that's your choice as well. But 18 pages about the topic is kind of gross. Off for the night after this one....

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Thank you for saying this. This thread has me really questioning my participation in this forum. There is just an overwhelming sense of self righteousness and moral purity here that drives me insane.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I'm just saying like, who actually is still saying this? Because you said "do some of you hear yourselves" and I didn't know who. Still, quote them and report them so they actually know its not okay to go to ANY length to defend rape.

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For example, in the earlier pages:

Lots of people labeling a man that wasnt convicted of rape as a rapist... hrmm.

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This is NOT admitting he raped the woman at all. He proclaimed his innocence while saying she saw it as rape acknowledging that she may not have wanted it, but she didn't express that. Again this isn't me defending Kobe, but never once did he say he willfully raped a girl.

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I meant criminally fuzzy. He was never charged or went to trial.

edit: he was charged, but charges were later dropped.

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Oh no, a very famous and rich man who admitted that he had a non-consentual sex with a lady did not get charged as a rapist, that must mean that he did not in fact, rape her.

 

[Mekanos]

To me, I'm less interested in tearing down Kobe's legacy than saying "treating him like he walked on water can be potentially damaging for victims to see it." I have no interest in considering Kobe an evil awful person who should be branded a rapist forever and have that be the whole story. Like I said...there's already an 80 page thread praising him.

 

[M.J.]

For example, in the earlier pages:







Oh no, a very famous and rich man who admitted that he had a non-consentual sex with a lady did not get charged as a rapist, that must mean that he did not in fact, rape her.

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Saw those. Not sure if you saw my edit up there but definitely am not arguing that people have been doing exactly what you said. I'm 100% with you. My brain was stuck on the last page or so.

 

[Lothar]

I mean, just look at what happened on the Kobe thread yesterday with people who tried to bring this issue to light.

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Yeah. That was really pretty shocking and incredibly disappointing for this place. I really didn't think rape would get swept under the rug here.

 

[yurr]

People can understand he touched many lives, while also understanding he raped someone. What good reason is there to erase it? Why should sexual assault be deleted from the record to make him look perfect in these conversations? Have respect for the people who get hurt by sexual assault. If people decide to explain his history and talk about it, there's no respectable reason they get to talk through only positive lovely successes and the sexual assault is nothing and people who mention that are frowned upon or threatened. That's terrible censorship of victims and I'd say the same if the bullshit standard was applied to Kevin Spacey or Trump or Bill Clinton or whoever else gets a bunch of stans trying to do damage control against worthwhile victim's truths.

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I think you're missing my point. I understand what you're saying, and no bringing it the negativity doesn't invalidate his life. What I am expressing is that people choosing to bring this up be honest with themselves. He was a rapist, and anyone/people glossing over this fact annoy you. It's not being brought up because of some concern about if he was convicted or not, or if he changed for the better or not. It's being brought up because people are glorifying him despite this and this bothers you/others.

 

[Eeyore]

Thank you for saying this. This thread has me really questioning my participation in this forum. There is just an overwhelming sense of self righteousness and moral purity here that drives me insane.

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I feel like it's entirely appropriate to be self-righteous about rape.

I think you're missing my point. I understand what you're saying, and no bringing it the negativity doesn't invalidate his life. What I am expressing is that people choosing to bring this up be honest with themselves. He was a rapist, and anyone/people glossing over this fact annoy you. It's not being brought up because of some concern about if he was convicted or not, or if he changed for the better or not. It's being brought up because people are glorifying him despite this and this bothers you/others.

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No the worst part is, most of these people don't even mention it. It's been washed from history, as if it doesn't exist. Just like thousands upon thousands of rape victims throughout history.

Edit: So if this thread and this discussion are anything, it's at least discussing parts of a man that so many others refuse to acknowledge because it doesn't fit for them.

 

[Imran]

If the case was strong enough to convict, they could have proceeded without the accuser as many prosecutors do.

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fuckin' cite please

 

[Surfinn]

I think you're missing my point. I understand what you're saying, and no bringing it the negativity doesn't invalidate his life. What I am expressing is that people choosing to bring this up be honest with themselves. He was a rapist, and anyone/people glossing over this fact annoy you. It's not being brought up because of some concern about if he was convicted or not, or if he changed for the better or not. It's being brought up because people are glorifying him despite this and this bothers you/others.

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That's not what this thread is for, if you want to celebrate his life, the main one is on the front page. This thread is specifically about his rape, as stated in the thread marks.. and not forgetting to provide a voice for victims of sexual assault/rape/harassment, which is the reason why it's being brought up.

So I have no idea why you're here if you're not interested in discussing the subject of the OP and instead deflecting to whether or not people are bothered about a celebration of his life.

 

[Sean]

I think you're missing my point. I understand what you're saying, and no bringing it the negativity doesn't invalidate his life. What I am expressing is that people choosing to bring this up be honest with themselves. He was a rapist, and anyone/people glossing over this fact annoy you. It's not being brought up because of some concern about if he was convicted or not, or if he changed for the better or not. It's being brought up because people are glorifying him despite this and this bothers you/others.

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Wtf?

Yes, people glorifying a rapist bothers rape victims. No fucking shit sherlock. And when people say "shhhhh, don't talk about it" it hurts us and silences us and just makes sure we don't speak up.

That should be pretty damned obvious. Do you actually think it's okay to do that us?

There is a disgusting amount of bullshit in this thread.

 

[Instro]

Yeah. That was really pretty shocking and incredibly disappointing for this place. I really didn't think rape would get swept under the rug here.

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I don't think it was swept under the rug. There's a difference between talking about it, and literally posting shit like "Good, he's a rapist" or similar sentiments minutes after the story broke of his death, while we were still finding out who was on the plane.

 

[yurr]

Wtf?

Yes, people glorifying a rapist bothers rape victims. No fucking shit sherlock. And when people say "shhhhh, don't talk about it" it hurts us and silences us and just makes sure we don't speak up.

That should be pretty damned obvious. Do you actually think it's okay to do that us?

There is a disgusting amount of bullshit in this thread.

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I'm a rape victim too, but never mind. My point isn't getting across here

 

[Fiction]

I understand why. I just wish we would be honest about why.

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Okay, tell me why I'm upset about the attitude in this thread, including yours, regarding the fact that Kobe was a rapist. Why am I posting in this thread?

 

[Surfinn]

Wtf?

Yes, people glorifying a rapist bothers rape victims. No fucking shit sherlock. And when people say "shhhhh, don't talk about it" it hurts us and silences us and just makes sure we don't speak up.

That should be pretty damned obvious. Do you actually think it's okay to do that us?

There is a disgusting amount of bullshit in this thread.

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And folks wonder why victims don't speak out/bail out of the legal process

 

[Spawnsniper]

Im just seriously curious why a lot of people that were on the old place shitted on Micheal Jackson when he died, and that was "kinda ok" to some extent, but shitting on Kobe isn't accepted? And let's be real, a lot of users migrated from said place.

Dont wanna be that guy, and I probably am but I just dont see the fairness. They were both legally "innocent" or rather, not guilty.

 

[BAD]

That's fair. That is why I said I have no idea how to feel about that message. I don't know what some of these people have experienced or how they feel and everyone is entitled to say what they need to say. There is no right answer here other than people are entitled to express their feelings and others are entitled to feel it is in poor taste because that is the father of the little girl who is also dead and the rest of the family will likely see the negative coverage as well. Definitely am not defending his actions or trying to cover them up in any way.

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The deaths are tragic and I don't think people want his loved ones to suffer. But negative coverage is his fault. He did this, not the people who are voices for sexual assault and it's importance. No blame about his legacy should be on them for not being silenced.

I think you're missing my point. I understand what you're saying, and no bringing it the negativity doesn't invalidate his life. What I am expressing is that people choosing to bring this up be honest with themselves. He was a rapist, and anyone/people glossing over this fact annoy you. It's not being brought up because of some concern about if he was convicted or not, or if he changed for the better or not. It's being brought up because people are glorifying him despite this and this bothers you/others.

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nope. I have no issue with people pointing out the good. I don't need every outlet saying only negative and erasing his good either. Not every era comment needs to say negative stuff If they don't care about the victim. No need to take the good all away from people who saw those things from him and really knew him or want to honor him publicly. Just like I think Obama is inspiring in ways despite his war crimes. A figure can be meaningful and have done inspiring things much of their life. But I'd never think it ok Or accurate to color victims motives for not being silent as spiteful about hearing positive comments. Victims of wrongdoing have every right to not be missed in the shuffle of glowing commentary about a lost public figure.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

I think you're missing my point. I understand what you're saying, and no bringing it the negativity doesn't invalidate his life. What I am expressing is that people choosing to bring this up be honest with themselves. He was a rapist, and anyone/people glossing over this fact annoy you. It's not being brought up because of some concern about if he was convicted or not, or if he changed for the better or not. It's being brought up because people are glorifying him despite this and this bothers you/others.

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For clarity:

I just don't understand how any message they are trying to send could be a good one? What I get from someone tweeting that during the immediate aftermath is "don't be sad he died, he was a rapist". I also have no idea how to feel about that that message. I guess at the end of the day I just find the timing to be in poor taste.

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That is the only message that comes from it. They didn't seek to remind us he was a rapist yesterday. Or when he retired. Or on the anniversary of the allegation. Or when he won an Oscar. They choose to bring it up when he died, I'm not blaming anyone for despising the man for what he did, but stop pretending your point is not "don't be sad he died, he was a rapist". That is your point/opinion and you are entitled to it. Lie to yourselves but you're not about to lie to me.

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Your message was not "I want people to be honest with themselves that they're upset at the glorification" (as if that was a thing that would be denied), it was "I want people to be honest that their intention is 'you shouldn't feel bad that he's dead'" and that is crystal clear.

As a side note, if you think that there was no controversy around Kobe being nominated for and winning an Oscar, you were not paying attention.

 

[Surfinn]

I don't think it was swept under the rug. There's a difference between talking about it, and literally posting shit like "Good, he's a rapist" or similar sentiments minutes after the story broke, while we were still finding out who was on the plane.

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The vast majority of people calling out his rape are not praising the tragedy itself. They're making sure victims of sexual assault aren't being forgotten.

 

[Elderly Parrot]

This is NOT admitting he raped the woman at all. He proclaimed his innocence while saying she saw it as rape acknowledging that she may not have wanted it, but she didn't express that. Again this isn't me defending Kobe, but never once did he say he willfully raped a girl.

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.

 

[Syril]

But even with all of that, it feels like some sort of betrayal of my values to think someone should be let off the hook just because they were well-liked/advanced a good cause. Like I'm favoring the perpetrator over the victims. But I also sure as hell know that desiring death for others is a dirty, ugly thing—no matter how many people they've hurt. It just makes me a worse person... someone who can't live out the higher ideals of loving kindness for all beings because of this archaic form of justice my mind clings to. I don't know if it's my psychology creating an internal fiction to help me cope with the atrocities of the world ("At least in my mind they get what's coming to them!"), but it's something I've struggled with for a long time and I can't seem to make any progress on. Events like this just remind me of how much work I have left to do on myself. (Though, I can't figure out an acceptable alternative. Even if a rapist goes to jail for 30 years, for example, that punishment pales in comparison to the trauma of the victim... which brings my thinking back to square one about the waste of flesh sexual abusers are.)

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The criminal justice system in this country is deeply screwed up and doesn't care about rehabilitating people, just hurting them. At the same time rape and other sexual crimes are horridly dealt with, often putting so much abuse and public humiliation on the accuser that it's no wonder that so many people don't even bother coming forward, and in this case specifically we're talking about a person who let his legal team practically ruin his accuser's life. Personally, I'd rather see an offender helped to become a better person than have vengeance exacted upon them, but I also don't have the right to tell victims under what circumstances they should personally forgive people who harm them. Some people may never forgive them, and they'd be right to feel that way. It's okay to just have complicated feelings about it as long as you don't erase the feelings of people who were hurt more.

 

[BringBackSonics]

For example, in the earlier pages:







Oh no, a very famous and rich man who admitted that he had a non-consentual sex with a lady did not get charged as a rapist, that must mean that he did not in fact, rape her.

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Fuzzy was a bad choice of words, I'd admit that. Obviously something negative went down in hindsight. I'm not really wanting to get a 3 month ban. But it was a response to my original post about rehabilitation.

 

[Surfinn]

This is the correct take. Of course in a perfect world where a women is given a fair trial without harassment the standard used would be did the defendant have an honest and REASONABLE belief that the accuser consented to the act not what he feels like the other poster was saying. That statement does nothing to admit guilt or offer any facts one way or another that would affect the reasonable person standard. In translation super lawyer speak. I don't know if he did it or not but I hope the woman is healing/healed and able to still live a fulfilling great life.

I have to say Colorado has very progressive laws compared to most which are still backwards

https://apps.rainn.org/policy/policy-crime-definitions-export.cfm?state=Colorado&group=9

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Explain to me how you can simultaneously understand, after examining all the information presented (over months, as the statement says), how somehow could have felt like they were raped and also claim that said rape did not occur.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

To just generally address something that I think has a bit of an undercurrent here, I think it's important to not consider the context to be about just one incident. It's also about the entire process of dragging the victim through the mud in order to create an avenue to avoid responsibility for the offense he admits he committed and then shutting her up forever with a sum that's life-altering for her but not exactly significant to his fortune.

As a reminder, that's not just a thing that happened in the past. That settlement lives, it binds both parties to this day. That settlement isn't a thing that happened in the past, it's conditions on her life that she has to abide by now and into the future. If she decides that she's had enough of this lionization, if she goes and gives a statement to someone and talks about the painful thing he did and admits to having done, the lawyers whose behavior caused her to give up and accept the settlement are going to make her regret it.

Meanwhile, Kobe got to use the same settlement as a shield. He understands you have all these questions about the case, but so sorry, he can't say a word about it. Please just drop this line of questioning and lets talk about literally anything else so we can just go on as if it didn't happen. Unless of course you're willing to let him obliquely reference it as some sort of dark period that he had to overcome, then we can talk.

It's not just a thing that happened over a period of 2 years that ended 15 years ago, it's about behavior over a much longer timeline than that, including control that his estate is going to continue to exert even now that he's gone.

 

[Elderly Parrot]

Explain to me how you can simultaneously understand, after examining all the information presented (over months, as the statement says), how somehow could have felt like they were raped and also claim that said rape did not occur.

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[Surfinn]

Hes saying in that statement he can see how she subjectively believed she did not give consent without commenting on the objective standard . It supposed to come off compassionate I see what they are going for.
I also don't want to call you out but Surfinn you know I don't like arguing with you in particular after I gave you proof in another thread as requested and then you asked for more proof. I get that from other lawyers at work and that's enough

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If he could understand her perspective in regard to there not being consent, then he is indirectly acknowledging that he raped her, as she claimed. You can't have it both ways or present rape as if it were a matter of opinion.

Link? I have no idea what you're talking about. If you're gonna call me out then you might as well go all the way.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Not suprising, today has been the most rabid I've seen fans of a dead rapist get since the death of David Bowie

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Those were fun times. 🙃