Vice: Reporters and Activists Are Being Harassed for Saying Kobe Bryant Was Credibly Accused of Rape (Read Staff Posts)

[Eeyore]

What? I literally said I don't care if people choose to forgive him. That's the first part of my post.

Click to shrink...

You went on to say that you don't like that other people on here shame people for forgiving Kobe. So it makes me wonder, why it matters that any of us forgive Kobe? I dunno, I just find it a really silly thing to complain about. We aren't the victim, we aren't the families, simply said we aren't involved. So forgiving him seems beyond and sort of irrelevant to any of us?

Gross generalizations. Ignorant assumptions. False equivalencies and shaky analogies.

Oof. 3 strikes you're out.

Click to shrink...

Not really. It's been seen in many cases over the years.

I wonder how people will feel when Kobe gets a statue outside the staples center? I mean people will be idolizing and memorializing an alleged rapist and do those same people feel the same about someone like for example Thomas Jefferson?

Click to shrink...

Not an alleged rapist, he admitted to it. I'm not sure what Thomas Jefferson has to do with Kobe Bryant and I think it's a pretty weird case to make considering Kobe's race and Jefferson's horrible treatment of slaves. Perhaps that was your point, I'm not sure.

 

[Fiction]

So how many lives does someone have to ruin before the fallout is acceptable?

Click to shrink...

If they are famous and well liked, its definitely a lot more than one measly woman.

 

[platocplx]

These two viewpoints aren't conflicting. It has nothing to do with "woke points". I think Kobe should have gone to prison and that also the prison he should have gone to was reformed such that the sentence was reasonable and focused on ensuring that he received an education on consent and rape culture such that he would be expertly poised not to be a piece of shit in the future. Since that remains a pipe dream in the contemporary political climate, I will settle for him going to prison since that is the closest approximation that we can currently obtain to justice for rape victims in 2020.

Click to shrink...

So I have a question about this more along the lines of what rehabilitation looks like. Is it where they confined and they rehab that way, or that they are court ordered to take education etc and pay restitution to the victim. More looking to understand what punishment would be the most ideal in your view.

 

[-PXG-]

Kobe's death and this topic is just an example of the point and question I'm proposing. I'm not surprised in the least be the replies.

For the record, I'm not follower of his, or a fan or follower of professional basketball. I don't have an opinion of that man, to be honest. I have plenty of friends who were victims of rape.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ASSAULT TOO

It's something I've only mentioned to a few people in my life. But despite all of that, as I've gotten older, I realized that I can't let a person or event rent space in my head. I can't be angry about it forever. For my own sanity, I have to move forward.

I'm not perfect. Far from it. Plenty of folks have wronged me too. But I hope that, whatever those terrible acts may be, that at some point, one should consider forgiveness and consider debts paid and that individual redeemed.

To be in perpetual contempt, with zero chance of ever correcting yourself and proving that you've learned and changed as a human being, isn't fair. We are better than that, right?

 

[fireflame]

One thing that I am not used to is the possibility to settle deals out of court. I hope the money helps victims, but at the same time, it leaves a grey area. In France you can't settle things this way with money

 

[Doomsayer]

You went on to say that you don't like that other people on here shame people for forgiving Kobe. So it makes me wonder, why it matters that any of us forgive Kobe? I dunno, I just find it a really silly thing to complain about. We aren't the victim, we aren't the families, simply said we aren't involved. So forgiving him seems beyond and sort of irrelevant to any of us?

Not really. It's been seen in many cases over the years.

Click to shrink...

So I'm not sure if I'm not articulating my point properly or if you're just being obtuse. I'm not even speaking about just this specific subject, I'm speaking in general. People making assumptions of ones character and automatically labeling them in a certain light because their opinions on a subject don't align bothers me.

There are obvious exceptions, though.

 

[DiceyRobot]

Gross generalizations. Ignorant assumptions. False equivalencies and shaky analogies.

Oof. 3 strikes you're out.

Click to shrink...

Sorry it makes you feel uneasy and want to get defensive. It's true though.

 

[Mekanos]

Kobe's death and this topic is just an example of the point and question I'm proposing. I'm not surprised in the least be the replies.

For the record, I'm not follower of his, or a fan or follower of professional basketball. I don't have an opinion of that man, to be honest. I have plenty of friends who were victims of rape.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ASSAULT TOO

It's something I've only mentioned to a few people in my life. But despite all of that, as I've gotten older, I realized that I can't let a person or event rent space in my head. I can't be angry about it forever. For my own sanity, I have to move forward.

I'm not perfect. Far from it. Plenty of folks have wronged me too. But I hope that, whatever those terrible acts may be, that at some point, one should consider forgiveness and consider debts paid and that individual redeemed.

To be in perpetual contempt, with zero chance of ever correcting yourself and proving that you've learned and changed as a human being, isn't fair. We are better than that, right?

Click to shrink...

The victim's opinion is the only one I'm interested in. And it's unlikely she will ever come forward to state her opinion.

So, people can think what they want. I am okay with talking about his legacy, as long as we don't forget what happened.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Oh, I absolutely agree. We should allow the discussion. I simply think this criticism of the discourse is coming from a pointed place, as if there is a conspiracy to surpress the negatives to Kobe Bryant. People will of course disagree on that point, but there are several well considered posts in the main thread that reconcile his rape accusation within the context of his death.

Click to shrink...

That's the one thing that gets me. Trying to shame people out of feeling grief for one of modern pop culture most famous and inspirational figures(whether you like him or not, I think his impact and influence is undeniable) is really not much better than the people shouting down any negative connotations towards Kobe Bryant's character. Everyone has their own perspective and deals with these things in their own way. To focus on one or the other does not mean everybody is turning a blind eye to the mans actions, for better or worse. People just process shit different. It's not invalidating anyone's feelings if you don't agree 100% with them.

 

[El Bombastico]

Kobe's death and this topic is just an example of the point and question I'm proposing. I'm not surprised in the least be the replies.

For the record, I'm not follower of his, or a fan or follower of professional basketball. I don't have an opinion of that man, to be honest. I have plenty of friends who were victims of rape.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ASSAULT TOO

It's something I've only mentioned to a few people in my life. But despite all of that, as I've gotten older, I realized that I can't let a person or event rent space in my head. I can't be angry about it forever. For my own sanity, I have to move forward.

I'm not perfect. Far from it. Plenty of folks have wronged me too. But I hope that, whatever those terrible acts may be, that at some point, one should consider forgiveness and consider debts paid and that individual redeemed.

To be in perpetual contempt, with zero chance of ever correcting yourself and proving that you've learned and changed as a human being, isn't fair. We are better than that, right?

Click to shrink...

Imagine think that just because you managed to get over your assault that everyone else should be able to as well. That is peak Bootstraps mentality, and it is disgusting.

 

[Fiction]

Still don't have to make a rapist your logo.... And my god he learned from it.

This is why women don't report. Raping us is just a learning experience

Click to shrink...

This entire thread is depressing the shit out of me.

 

[Doomsayer]

That's the one thing that gets me. Trying to shame people out of feeling grief for one of modern pop culture most famous and inspirational figures(whether you like him or not, I think his impact and influence is undeniable) is really not much better than the people shouting down any negative connotations towards Kobe Bryant's character. Everyone has their own perspective and deals with these things in their own way. To focus on one or the other does not mean everybody is turning a blind eye to the mans actions, for better or worse. People just process shit different. It's not invalidating anyone's feelings if you don't agree 100% with them.

Click to shrink...

This is basically what I was trying to convey but not as eloquently.

Eeyore

 

[Mars People]

Weren't people in the last thread getting banned for calling him out to be a rapist?
Now people in this thread seem to have been banned for defending his crimes.

What am I supposed to take from this?

 

[selo]

Spacey has lost most of his cultural inertia and likely will not act in anything notable again for the rest of his life. Nor has he made any indication of wanting to become a better person and help people like those that he hurt. If he's remembered fondly in passing, it will have been because of something he did between now and then to make up for it, and that seems unlikely.

Click to shrink...

Hopefully he does become a better person and tries to right his wrongs.

 

[Eeyore]

So I'm not sure if I'm not articulating my point properly or if you're just being obtuse. I'm not even speaking about just this specific subject, I'm speaking in general. People making assumptions of ones character and automatically labeling them in a certain light because their opinions on a subject don't align bothers me.

There are obvious exceptions, though.

Click to shrink...

This is what you said:

What I dislike immensely is people telling other people that because they chose to forgive they are a piece of shit for doing so. Like me making a personal decision automatically makes me a garbage human. That is the biggest issue I have with discussion on this forum.

Click to shrink...

I'm not being obtuse. Why does our forgiveness for a public figure matter? This is a question I'm asking you but I simply don't understand the relevance.

Weren't people in the last thread getting banned for calling him out to be a rapist?
Now people in this thread seem to have been banned for defending his crimes.

What am I supposed to take from this?

Click to shrink...

That timing is everything and perhaps you aren't accurately portraying what's happened.

 

[El Bombastico]

Hopefully he does become a better person and tries to right his wrongs.

Click to shrink...

Looking at the recent creepy as fuck vids he made, I don't see that happening.

 

[BAD]

Spacey has lost most of his cultural inertia and likely will not act in anything notable again for the rest of his life. Nor has he made any indication of wanting to become a better person and help people like those that he hurt. If he's remembered fondly in passing, it will have been because of something he did between now and then to make up for it, and that seems unlikely.

Click to shrink...

So people shouldn't mention it when a bunch of other random facts and legacy comments are being made? What has he done to "make up for it?" Please don't tell me that getting to keep his job and just issuing a statement through lawyers about it counts as addressing it.

Kobe's death and this topic is just an example of the point and question I'm proposing. I'm not surprised in the least be the replies.

For the record, I'm not follower of his, or a fan or follower of professional basketball. I don't have an opinion of that man, to be honest. I have plenty of friends who were victims of rape.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I AM A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ASSAULT TOO

It's something I've only mentioned to a few people in my life. But despite all of that, as I've gotten older, I realized that I can't let a person or event rent space in my head. I can't be angry about it forever. For my own sanity, I have to move forward.

I'm not perfect. Far from it. Plenty of folks have wronged me too. But I hope that, whatever those terrible acts may be, that at some point, one should consider forgiveness and consider debts paid and that individual redeemed.

To be in perpetual contempt, with zero chance of ever correcting yourself and proving that you've learned and changed as a human being, isn't fair. We are better than that, right?

Click to shrink...

First off, sorry for what you experienced.

But I'm confused as to what you think Kobe did for sexual assault victims to redeem himself? You keep alluding to it but the thread is about Kobe and I am not aware of him facing justice for his admissions or doing anything for those who are subjected to such violation.

 

[selo]

Looking at the recent creepy as fuck vids he made, I don't see that happening.

Click to shrink...

I agree, doesn't look to be anytime soon. Maybe in some years.

 

[Gentlemen]

Once again we're drowning out the stories of two women getting relentless death/rape threats because what's more important, apparently, is to stop making Kobe fans feel kind of bad.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Don't know if it matters, but according to Bryant his wife Vanessa miscarried a baby around the time period all this was going on and to his admission he blamed himself for bringing that stress unto his wife.

I do think the suffering his family is going through right now along with the other families affected by this crash must be among the worst kinds of personal hell one can go through.

 

[platocplx]

To be in perpetual contempt, with zero chance of ever correcting yourself and proving that you've learned and changed as a human being, isn't fair. We are better than that, right?

Click to shrink...

First I want to say. I am very sorry you had to deal with being assaulted and I see that your perspective Makes a lot of sense. I would think we are better than that because I mean hell our current system does nothing to try to break these cycles at all, I would like to see people be punished in some way so you can have some form of justice, but then also allow for the people who committed the acts to be able to have what you said. I feel like many people are at more extreme ends than just saying look, justice wasn't served in their view(we don't know what the victims perspective is here) but the level of how some people look at the death seems way to celebratory rather than nuanced.

 

[Alavard]

Weren't people in the last thread getting banned for calling him out to be a rapist?
Now people in this thread seem to have been banned for defending his crimes.

What am I supposed to take from this?

Click to shrink...

You could takeaway that you should read staff posts when they exist.

 

[-PXG-]

Imagine think that just because you managed to get over your assault that everyone else should be able to as well. That is peak Bootstraps mentality, and it is disgusting.

Click to shrink...

That's NOT what I'm saying. But I knew someone would accuse me of that, because people here just love to believe whatever suits the narrative in their own minds, despite how utterly clear someone is. Just injecting ridiculous subtext because, again, it suits your narrative.

Don't put fucking words in my mouth. Its why I typically don't ever engage in any serious discussions here. It's this bullshit or I'm terrified I'll just get banned without ever getting a chance to explain myself.

Anyway, I'll break this shit down to the molecular level for you since it's so goddamn hard to understand:

I'm not saying that everyone should be like me. I'm just saying to 1) CONSIDER redemption and 2) CONSIDER what lengths that person must go through in order to be redeemed.

THAT'S IT. Put me on ignore while you're at it. I don't give a shit.

 

[RedMercury]

To what lengths must one go through to redeem themselves? You can't undo the past. So again, it begs the question... What must one do to repent for past transgressions and to totally move forward?

Click to shrink...

That is a personal decision each person is entitled to make for themselves after they deliberate and come to a conclusion based on their own convictions. Just like I wouldn't say you are empirically wrong for supporting the guy, I wouldn't say people who don't are wrong either. There's isn't some scientific objective answer.

Click to shrink...

To add a bit, just remember nobody is entitled to redemption. Not everyone can be redeemed, what constitutes redemption is subjective, and it's entirely normal if someone is not interested in forgiving a rapist no matter what they do. -PXG- this answer may fit with what you were saying as well, but I'd be interested if you don't think it's a reasonable take, and I'm sorry for what you have been through.

 

[Eeyore]

That's NOT what I'm saying. But I knew someone would accuse me of that, because people here just love to believe whatever suits the narrative in their own minds, despite how utterly clear someone is. Just injecting ridiculous subtext because, again, it suits your narrative.

Don't put fucking words in my mouth. Its why I typically don't ever engage in any serious discussions here. It's this bullshit or I'm terrified I'll just get banned without ever getting a chance to explain myself.

Anyway, I'll break this shit down to the molecular level for you since it's so goddamn hard to understand:

I'm not saying that everyone should be like me. I'm just saying to 1) CONSIDER redemption and 2) CONSIDER what lengths that person must go through in order to be redeemed.

THAT'S IT. Put me on ignore while you're at it. I don't give a shit.

Click to shrink...

Why is any of this up to us and not the victim of the assault? Another poster brought up a similar point and I'm struggling to understand. To me Kobe Bryant is one of the best basketball players I've ever seen and a rapist. That's where he exists in my mind. I have seen no actions from him that change the latter or the former to be frank.

 

[Cess007]

I'm just saying to 1) CONSIDER redemption and 2) CONSIDER what lengths that person must go through in order to be redeemed.

Click to shrink...

I reply with my answer before:

Redemption is earned, not given. And it starts with paying justice to your original transgression.

Click to shrink...

Is that too much?

 

[Surfinn]

Once again we're drowning out the stories of two women getting relentless death/rape threats because what's more important, apparently, is to stop making Kobe fans feel kind of bad.

Click to shrink...

Par for the course

 

[El Bombastico]

Once again we're drowning out the stories of two women getting relentless death/rape threats because what's more important, apparently, is to stop making Kobe fans feel kind of bad.

Click to shrink...

We're just doing it to get "woke points" didn't ya know?

Oh, and we're all terrible human beings for not immediately forgiving all rapists, even the ones who never spent a day in jail.

 

[sabrina]

So people shouldn't mention it when a bunch of other random facts and legacy comments are being made? What has he done to "make up for it?" Please don't tell me that getting to keep his job and just issuing a statement through lawyers about it counts as addressing it.

Click to shrink...

Don't put words in my mouth. I have not and will not condemn people for bringing up the things he did. It remains an unresolved issue and is worth addressing. Your acting like I don't care about what he did is a gross mischaracterization of who I am and what I've said.

I was only commentating on why people in general have moved past the perception of Kobe as a rapist, compared to someone like Spacey.

 

[foggy]

I have all the sympathy in the world for his family and loved ones but Kobe was a piece of shit. The fact that the rape happened in 2003 and not 2018 is the only thing keeping him from being a pariah.

Even had posters "as a black man"-ing being accountable for rape and saying a rapist's image should be the league's logo. It's some nasty shit.

 

[Jmanunknown]

You went on to say that you don't like that other people on here shame people for forgiving Kobe. So it makes me wonder, why it matters that any of us forgive Kobe? I dunno, I just find it a really silly thing to complain about. We aren't the victim, we aren't the families, simply said we aren't involved. So forgiving him seems beyond and sort of irrelevant to any of us?



Not really. It's been seen in many cases over the years.



Not an alleged rapist, he admitted to it. I'm not sure what Thomas Jefferson has to do with Kobe Bryant and I think it's a pretty weird case to make considering Kobe's race and Jefferson's horrible treatment of slaves. Perhaps that was your point, I'm not sure.

Click to shrink...

First off Thomas Jefferson is a rapist full stop. Second he has been idolized and memorialized and Kobe too will have that happen to him just not on the same scale as someone like Thomas Jefferson.

 

[Just Progress]

Can't believe Obama applauded a rapist.

 

[Surfinn]

It's wild when your report simply says "dismissing rape"

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

This is the first time I've heard about the main details of the actual rape case and woof if there ever was a time to take the adage "believe women" moment to heart it's this. The fact they had to change the law right after the case speaks volumes. Mourn the lives that were lost, but sweeping his past under the rug hurts victims of rape everywhere.

 

[El Bombastico]

It's wild when your report simply says "dismissing rape"

Click to shrink...

There's been like 5 of those in the last two pages alone.

 

[Mekanos]

Can't believe Obama applauded a rapist.

Click to shrink...

Obama isn't more moral than the average American just because he was President.

 

[El Bombastico]

This is the first time I've heard about the main details of the actual rape case and woof if there ever was a time to take the adage "believe women" moment to heart it's this. The fact they had to change the law right after the case speaks volumes. Mourn the lives that were lost, but sweeping his past under the rug hurts victims of rape everywhere.

Click to shrink...

BELIEVE WOMEN*

*Unless they accuse a celebrity you actually like, then its "well..."

 

[ghostemoji]

When my father passes away, or some of my best friends pass away, if the first things I heard from others was about some terrible thing they did decades prior, I'd probably be upset. Very upset. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but there is a way to discuss topics constructively and not in a way to make people feel guilty for their grief.

Kobe's death has been very weird to me in that regard. I fully acknowledge that he did a reprehensible thing to another human being, but my heart still dropped when I saw the news, and my heart heart for his family and people who loved him and his daughter. I don't think this stuff has to be black and white.

 

[Fiction]

When my father passes away, or some of my best friends pass away, if the first things I heard from others was about some terrible thing they did decades prior, I'd probably be upset. Very upset. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but there is a way to discuss topics constructively and not in a way to make people feel guilty for their grief.

Kobe's death has been very weird to me in that regard. I fully acknowledge that he did a reprehensible thing to another human being, but my heart still dropped when I saw the news, and my heart heart for his family and people who loved him and his daughter. I don't think this stuff has to be black and white.

Click to shrink...

At the same time, my sister attended our rapists funeral and listening to everyone tell lies about his legacy was disgusting.

So yes, women and former victims might have similar feeling about the death of Kobe. Sorry

 

[Eeyore]

First off Thomas Jefferson is a rapist full stop. Second he has been idolized and memorialized and Kobe too will have that happen to him just not on the same scale as someone like Thomas Jefferson.

Click to shrink...

I'm still not understanding your point.

Can't believe Obama applauded a rapist.

Click to shrink...

Obama's sadly done much worse :/.

 

[RedMercury]

Can't believe Obama applauded a rapist.

Click to shrink...

What does this have to do with the discussion here

 

[Envelope]

When my father passes away, or some of my best friends pass away, if the first things I heard from others was about some terrible thing they did decades prior, I'd probably be upset. Very upset. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but there is a way to discuss topics constructively and not in a way to make people feel guilty for their grief.

Kobe's death has been very weird to me in that regard. I fully acknowledge that he did a reprehensible thing to another human being, but my heart still dropped when I saw the news, and my heart heart for his family and people who loved him and his daughter. I don't think this stuff has to be black and white.

Click to shrink...

The vast majority of people raising concerns about the lionization of Kobe and dismissal of him raping someone are not in a position where they could bother the deceased's family about it even if they wanted to.

 

[CharlesAznable]

Weren't people in the last thread getting banned for calling him out to be a rapist?
Now people in this thread seem to have been banned for defending his crimes.

What am I supposed to take from this?

Click to shrink...

I think it's fine to temporarily limit hot takes when his death literally just occurred and his daughter plus several others are dead as well, in a news thread about it. Conversely I think it's fine to call out and talk about his past as well, in a thread about how how reporters are getting harassed for talking about it.

 

[squeakywheel]

I was reading that Daily Beast article and holy cow. Kobe was even cocky to the cops.

Looking at the recent creepy as fuck vids he made, I don't see that happening.

Click to shrink...

i missed this. What creepy videos? I thought he kept his nose clean after the rape and adultery.

 

[BAD]

When my father passes away, or some of my best friends pass away, if the first things I heard from others was about some terrible thing they did decades prior, I'd probably be upset. Very upset. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but there is a way to discuss topics constructively and not in a way to make people feel guilty for their grief.

Kobe's death has been very weird to me in that regard. I fully acknowledge that he did a reprehensible thing to another human being, but my heart still dropped when I saw the news, and my heart heart for his family and people who loved him and his daughter. I don't think this stuff has to be black and white.

Click to shrink...

His family isn't here and aren't a reason to censor only the rape part of his history but not people talking about his random sports and entertainment ventures.

 

[-PXG-]

Why is any of this up to us and not the victim of the assault?

Click to shrink...

That's a very fair and excellent question. It isn't up to y'all or me. That's kind of my point. No one's opinions mean fuck all except for those effected, that being the accused and more so, the victim. Whether it's rape, theft, assault or any hostile or threatening act. Those involved should determine that amongst themselves. Let them come to terms, settle differences and possibly redeem themselves under their own conditions.

 

[El Bombastico]

What creepy videos are people talking about?
I was reading that Daily Beast article and holy cow. Kobe was even cocky to the cops.

i missed this. What creepy videos? I thought he kept his nose clean after the rape and adultery.

Click to shrink...

I'm not going to link to them and give him the clicks, just google "Recent Kevin Spacey Video" and it'll the first couple links.

 

[Trey]

Once again we're drowning out the stories of two women getting relentless death/rape threats because what's more important, apparently, is to stop making Kobe fans feel kind of bad.

Click to shrink...

Then talk about it then. Complaining about the meta is contributing only to said meta if you don't also talk about what is ostensibly the focus of this thread.

 

[crimsonECHIDNA]

Weren't people in the last thread getting banned for calling him out to be a rapist?
Now people in this thread seem to have been banned for defending his crimes.

What am I supposed to take from this?

Click to shrink...

It leaned more into people trying to bait others into arguments. Like there's bringing up his past misdeeds and then there's people making comments like thanking God he's dead, or backing shitty tweets making jokes about it. I'm sure some people who were legitimately just bringing attention to it got caught in the crossfire, but a lot of it was bad faith posting.

That said this thread is totally fair game. Like, not of these journalist should be harrassed over any of this.

 

[Darryl M R]

Harassing people for reporting facts? C'mon now.

And for Kobe's legacy, it includes the good and the bad.

Many people feel like it doesn't take away from his good. Okay.

Many people feel like it is the only part of his legacy that matters. Okay.

Trying to police how others should mourn, and yes people are mourning Kobe, will always come off as trying to score points. It doesn't feel like it's a whole lot of people doing this, but I definitely come across twitter personalities issuing apologies for their previous wording on this matter. Granted, it seems that Twitter-sphere is done with white women, in particular, dunking on black people; however, there are some notable women of color who voices are being championed surrounding why everyone should face Kobe's full legacy.

Trying to ensure that Kobe's full legacy is taken in consideration when discussing his death as a news event is 100% fair, and should not be ushered away.

Also, if you know someone who has been a victim of sexual assault, try to check in on them if you have the capacity to do so.