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Vice: Reporters and Activists Are Being Harassed for Saying Kobe Bryant Was Credibly Accused of Rape (Read Staff Posts)
- Thread starter Syriel
- Start date
I don't mind the thread happening right now but I personally think when it's a tragic situation like this that a week is most appropriate. Let people collect themselves and grieve so that they can discuss the crimes in a collected and rational manner. Not everyone will allow discussion because sometimes fans of celebrities are unreasonable and refuse to change their view of their icons but many are willing to acknowledge crimes after the fact. This applies to media so that families can have some time to heal and collect themselves rather than the media frenzy trying to stir up something right away.
I want it made very clear this is about context. Kobe dying alone changes how I feel about time and place discussion but when innocents are involved it's time to have some tact and realize making the discussions about his rape the focus is inappropriate. I'm not a fan of Kobe and I have gone after abusers before when they died such as XXXtentacion but situations are very different and easy to see why one is fine and the other is not.
He learned from it and moved on to be a better person and husband. Look at the contributions he has done after that incident. I believe it should be changed as well and it is fitting that he was a Laker just like Jerry West.
I honestly don't get what you're asking. Are you asking if ignoring, skipping, or forgetting to get consent is ok?
User banned (2 months): Hostility, community attacks, dismissing concerns over sexual assault over multiple posts
what's the point in bringing up Kobe's case today/yesterday? what a miserable website this is
I'll just ask; Is there ever a point where someone is forgiven for a mistake or a crime? Bryant apologized for what happened, he paid for it on multiple levels, made amends, and from all accounts became a dedicated family man and good human being after it happened.
Do we really compare someone like that to someone like Trump who has never apologized, repeatedly raped women (probably even young girls), and even bragged about doing it?
Do we really compare someone like that to someone like Trump who has never apologized, repeatedly raped women (probably even young girls), and even bragged about doing it?
Because it bothered me that there were 50 pages of "RIP KING WE MISS YOU FAM", continuing the whitewashing of Kobe's legacy that has been going on for years.
User Banned (1 Week): Threadwhining in a Serious Thread
Yeah, none of this means we should use his death as an opportunity to highlight a terrible situation 17 years ago, even though he's made amends and is remorseful for it. He devoted himself to his daughters and countless other children, he was not the same man that did that, trying to galvanise this moment to tear him down is disgusting. People change and grow, as long as they're repentant and have shown change we shouldn't let that crime define them.
funny how if you're Kobe you get to handwave away rape as just a lil oopsy woopsy
Did not know Kobe was a rapist so reading these kinds of reactions here is just fucking wild. "Character assassination?" The dude raped a girl and didn't spend a day in jail.
You mistakenly raped anyone lately?
Edit: Kobe was a piece of shit and he got away with it unlike Cosby or maybe Weinstein.
it bothered you that people were mourning someone who literally just died in a freak accident? what's wrong with you?
I am uncomfortable by the number of people going "let's wait and let people mourn" in a thread specifically about the harassment the victim's supporters received.
There's a larger conversation to be had about good acts making amends (or not) for bad ones and a mixed legacy and all that, but this part is specifically irksome. Feels pretty insulting to the victim and related harassment is brushed away with "let people mourn, don't talk about this".
There's a larger conversation to be had about good acts making amends (or not) for bad ones and a mixed legacy and all that, but this part is specifically irksome. Feels pretty insulting to the victim and related harassment is brushed away with "let people mourn, don't talk about this".
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So i want to understand the latter point about consent clearly here and lets look at it with the context of the times back then, Is this kind of why now affirmative consent is now what we look to have, because I think one nuance to consent in the past was many people viewed consent as solely no means no, which would wholly contribute to not doing enough for consent correct? or are you looking also at the power dynamics at hand that because of being in the presence of celebrity contributes to someone being unable to say no as well?
I starting to think people are loosing social cues or skills on the internet. People are white washing what was thread like it was innocent, it was not, it was used as a gotcha and bash people for grieving. Socially you seem like a mansplaner, while people are sad, you just have to bring it up, like you just can't handle youselfs. Like Neil Degrasse Tyson or any other losers on the internet. If your complaining that you can't wait one day to make a post about his rape, then you need help because you have more days to posts than Kobe.
No I guess I was just trying to reconcile the two different narratives of the rehabilitation posts about him, where some where suggesting he knew what he did wrong and did good to rectify it while others pointed out that he never actually thought he was a rapist just that the victim thought he was, which is weird mental gymnastics, as a way to defend him as a good person.
You are absolutely fucking right that people can learn from the past and change. It is very possible Kobe did. Fuck if I know.
But, you are absolutely wrong to act like rape is just a mistake like what we all make. Uhh, no, most of us will never make a "mistake" on the level of rape. Come on.
Im not attempting at being vauge im saying more that the individual in this case is more grey than just being cut and dry to be wholly condemned.
Funny how people only come out the woodwork in such numbers to discuss his accusations once he passed. It's like people mourning the dude riled people up and they gotta go "but he is a rapist" as we found out his child and seven others also died.
Michael Jackson died a decade ago and we still have people, even on this forum, that get mad whenever people bring up his crimes. There is NEVER going to be "a right time" to bring it up.
That's because they're not being sincere. "Nows not the time" is a way to shut people up, just like "innocent until proven guilty" and "he was never convicted"
That's because they're not being sincere. "Nows not the time" is a way to shut people up, just like "innocent until proven guilty" and "he was never convicted"
Yes, there is very much a point where people are seen beyond their "mistake". Just look at Kobe Bryant life, he was able to inspire many people and be a mentor to so many after the events. He positively affected the lives of other and that's what almost everyone is praising him and remembering him for.
But saying he paid for it is a stretch. He paid jack shit. He raped a girl and moved on with his life.
can you speak with confidence that the victim has moved on and found peace?
ok, so its not to get any kind of justice or anything for a victim, its purely masturbatory
There won't be an agreed upon "right time" to discuss Kobe Bryant's rape allegation. We'll go straight from "the bodies are still warm how dare you" to "that was almost 20 years ago and never proven, let it go," which is probably what most people would've said if you'd brought it up last week.
People are excellent at remembering only the things they liked about their heroes. It's more about belief in an idealized version of a person than knowledge of who that person actually was, since none of us actually knew them.
People are excellent at remembering only the things they liked about their heroes. It's more about belief in an idealized version of a person than knowledge of who that person actually was, since none of us actually knew them.
Fuck, had no idea he did rape someone when I posted in the thread yesterday, I should've read it a bit more thoroughly.
Damn you FFXIV for sapping my attention so much.
Damn you FFXIV for sapping my attention so much.
Still don't have to make a rapist your logo.... And my god he learned from it.
This is why women don't report. Raping us is just a learning experience
As someone with mental health issues, reading about how Kobe's defense used the victim's mental health issues to drag her through the mud has sat the wrong way with me for years. I've discussed this to this effect long before Kobe died. Obviously the man did not deserve to die, and only a psychopath would wish anything like that. Calling it "masturbatory" is insulting.
Kobe didn't went to jail. Saying he "paid" for his "mistake", it's frankly insulting to the accuser
Edit. Added quotations to "mistake" because fuck you if you -unironically- use the term mistake to refer to rape
Edit. Added quotations to "mistake" because fuck you if you -unironically- use the term mistake to refer to rape
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I've tried to read this but I genuinely can't find where they said this was done by his legal team. It seems this was done by a court clerk unaffiliated with them.
No, you're implying without evidence or reason that we all "sin" in some way that's worth being compared to rape.
I think so yeah, granted his apology was clearly trying to weasel out of responsibility even though he knew he had to admit what he did, but I think its also okay to think that while a person can be forgiven in the sense of being brought back into society, that doesn't mean we should lionise them. Also he only paid for his crimes in a financial sense
While it may not have been brought up in the most tactful of ways, it's part of the territory when it's a high-profile person who has done fucked up things. 17 years of being a good person in the community, father, etc., doesn't erase rape victims' pain, and it's not their responsibility to forgive him, it was his responsibility not to rape.
I tend to think if you've slept on it and you're still hyperdefensive about defending Kobe's legacy today it's probably with re-evaluating your priorities. I live in SoCal and saw people wearing 24 Jerseys last night. I posted some tidbits in the Kobe death thread. 24 hours should be enough time unless you personally knew him. If it's been 17 years, then you've had 17 years to rationalize his actions and still be a diehard fan.
Raping a woman is okay so long as you build a few community centers afterwards. At least, that's what it sounds like people are saying here...
....
Yeah, this wasn't a "learning experience".
I had a discussion with a friend of mine once what it would take for her rapist to be "forgiven" and be allowed to move on with their life. How much would he have to pay? How much public good would he need to do? How many apologies would be enough?
"All I wanted," she told me, "was for him to face actual justice. He didn't. So nothing he will ever do will ever be enough."
That has always stuck with me. To see someone be victimized, disbelieved, harassed, and ultimately not get justice, only to watch their abuser go on to live a normal life without consequences with a devoted family and future success while she spent years with trust issues and psychologist visits...
... No. These things should not be forgotten, and when the world proudly declares that someone like this is a role model, an icon, a HERO - a champion to be venerated and celebrated, then it's the right time to set the record straight.
"But think of his family!" "Think of his fans!" "Think of his legacy!"
... and as usual, nobody thinks of the victim.
I think this should be a compromise to start with. he raped her it was a text book date rape. Now who he was after all of that i think that is where this debate should start and if he is redeemed or not etc.
I'm sure he took a major hit with his wife, because she had him on a leash for their rest of their marriage. Also he had to undergo marriage and psychological counseling after this happened for years. So yeah, I wouldn't say he got off scott-free for any of this. In the 17 years after this happened by all accounts he was nothing but a model citizen.
well it wasnt my intention so either you can take that or believe thats what i was going for.
He acknowledged he fucked up and has done nothing but good since. I wonder is there a way to redemption or does a person who fucked up once always gonna be considered criminal?
It's fine to bring up his past but a lot of what you see on ERA or social media seems to be shitting on him for the sake of it.
If he was someone like Weinstein I would understand it but I think the context of what he has done since should be considered.
It's fine to bring up his past but a lot of what you see on ERA or social media seems to be shitting on him for the sake of it.
If he was someone like Weinstein I would understand it but I think the context of what he has done since should be considered.
It's wrong for people to be attacked because of this. When Kobe's accuser dies, the media will be silent, it will just pass in the wind. Nobody will be doing a story on the victim. What happened to her is a part of this story and deserves to have light shed on it to ensure what happened to her and what she went through is not forgotten.
It's more "it happened 17 years ago, he didn't get completely away with it, and in those 17 years he stayed out of trouble, and appeared to try to be better and do good work."
No you see he paid for it... look he went from a multi-millionaire baseketball superstar to a multi-millionaire basketball superstar.... Consequences
This thread isn't really about her tho. It's about backlash reporters are getting for bringing it up not even 24 hrs after him and others died.
Like dead. Crashed into a mountain dead. Might have been some fire, I dunno dead.