Vice: Reporters and Activists Are Being Harassed for Saying Kobe Bryant Was Credibly Accused of Rape (Read Staff Posts)

[msdstc]

A statement issued through his attorney:

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."

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This is NOT admitting he raped the woman at all. He proclaimed his innocence while saying she saw it as rape acknowledging that she may not have wanted it, but she didn't express that. Again this isn't me defending Kobe, but never once did he say he willfully raped a girl.

 

[TAJ]

I don't know how anyone can still think OJ was innocent.
(If) I Did It was one of the most shameless trolls ever.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

This right here. It's fine to acknowledge faults (there's an appropriate time for this), but I think one of the convictions causing people to say what they're saying about Kobe is deep down they feel people still over-glorify celebrities and they just want to always be a voice to speak out for the defenseless.

Now in this instance, I can't tell how much of the reactions are due to people not keeping up with Kobe after canceling him 15+ years ago and not recognizing everything that has happened with him since.

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Ok I'm genuinely curious, what did he do since the rape apart from play basketball and be a family man that makes him be considered such a hero? I was never big into sports so I didn't hear much about him most of the time

This is NOT admitting he raped the woman at all. He proclaimed his innocence while saying she saw it as rape acknowledging that she may not have wanted it, but she didn't express that. Again this isn't me defending Kobe, but never once did he say he willfully raped a girl.

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I mean he is admitting to the rape, just at the same time saying he still doesn't consider it rape from his perspective. Its a classic "I'm sorry, but I also didn't even do anything wrong"

 

[Agrizzlyadventure]

how you feel about OJ?

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Pretty sure he did it.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Yep it happened here yesterday with vitriol on both sides. But the person who got banned quickly in that thread was someone posting an NBA Courtside N64 gif lol

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That ban was reversed and the mod apologized for misinterpreting it. The others praising god, etc. were banned. There was also vitriol only one one side originally, and wasn't met with anything until those types of comments started being made.

 

[abellwillring]

All that being said, though, the Washington Post should NOT be suspending their reporter for that tweet. That's pretty inexcusable.

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Worth noting that they suspended her because she posted some screencaps of her email which showed people's names (presumably not just people making threats) which is apparently expressly against policy.

 

[WoahW]

Heroes don't rape women. Stop that crap.

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No matter how much you keep trying to get people to stop your words literally mean nothing to the thousands upon thousands of people who consider him a form of hero so maybe find a new line? You aren't even attempting to discuss the topic at hand just wave your opinion onto others

 

[BringBackSonics]

Calling rape 'fuzzy stuff' is probably not the best word choice considering the case against him and his published apology

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I meant criminally fuzzy. He was never charged or went to trial.

edit: he was charged, but charges were later dropped.

 

[Pelican]

Edit: ah, abellwillring beat me to it.

All that being said, though, the Washington Post should NOT be suspending their reporter for that tweet. That's pretty inexcusable.

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I may be out of date here, but I read yesterday it was due to a screenshot she posted that included emails and contact information from their business. An accidental mini dox or something of the like.

From The Hill

In her later tweets, Sonmez noted the death threats she was receiving over the initial post, and in one tweet she included the full names of some people who sent her emails, according to a report from Matthew Keys at The Desk.

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[Deepwater]

Pretty sure he did it.

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well too bad, he wasn't convicted

 

[Cess007]

Death doesn't automagically qualify you to receive unending respect and canonization. It's absolutely vital that we don't forget what someone's done--and don't silence people who want to discuss it--simply because people want you to "respect the dead".

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In the words of Voltaire: To the living we owe respect, but to the dead we owe only the truth

I wonder how his accuser feels, having his face everywhere right now.

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I can't imagine how must she feel reading/hearing about what great person Kobe was

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I just find it so weird that most of the people bringing up the Kobe rape story never said a word about Bowie when he died. But a black man with allegations dies we're going to unload everything immediately. Almost like white feminism is.... nvm

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It got mentioned after Bowie's death loads, but its probably different people. There were plenty of people using it to try and negate anything else he did in his life, and it comes up every time there's a mention of Bowie on several places I visit on the net including here. plus this is post me too so clearly some people are going to have a laser focus now.

 

[BAD]

This is NOT admitting he raped the woman at all. He proclaimed his innocence while saying she saw it as rape acknowledging that she may not have wanted it, but she didn't express that. Again this isn't me defending Kobe, but never once did he say he willfully raped a girl.

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What do you think it means when one person did not want you to have sex with them but you did it anyway? That's rape

 

[msdstc]

No matter how much you keep trying to get people to stop your words literally mean nothing to the thousands upon thousands of people who consider him a form of hero so maybe find a new line? You aren't even attempting to discuss the topic at hand just wave your opinion onto others

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I don't think they are LITERALLY saying Kobe can't be seen as a hero, more that he shouldn't be.

 

[voOsh]

This is NOT admitting he raped the woman at all. He proclaimed his innocence while saying she saw it as rape acknowledging that she may not have wanted it, but she didn't express that. Again this isn't me defending Kobe, but never once did he say he willfully raped a girl.

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That's a pretty fine line, dude. Couldn't every rapist just use this strategy and say "well I thought it was consensual but now I understand she did not."

 

[Deepwater]

I just find it so weird that most of the people bringing up the Kobe rape story never said a word about Bowie when he died. But a black man with allegations dies we're going to unload everything immediately. Almost like white feminism is.... nvm

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there was a Kobe thread Late last week and people brought it up.

 

[Mekanos]

Ultimately, I just don't think coming out guns blazing with the rape accusations a couple of hours after the news hits is going to lead to much productive conversation. People will get defensive and dig their heels in, right or wrong. Now that it's a little over 24 hours things have cooled off and I think we might be able to actually hold a discourse over it. I was more sad for the people whose lives were affected and touched by Kobe, like Shaq, than Kobe himself. I'll never know exactly what Kobe did to that woman, or if someone could truly redeem themselves after an event like that, but I hope it's not forgotten either. Turning Kobe into the NBA logo, like some suggested, feels in poor taste for this reason.

 

[Apathy]

Pointing out that Kobe is a rapist isn't disrespectful to the other 8 people on the helicopter, that's just an excuse to hide the fact that you don't care.

e: also mentioning that he's a rapist isn't the same as thinking he and his child should've died, for people trying to make that absurd connection



This sounds glib but sadly it's true. If you make tens of millions of people happy, society gives you a free pass on a few rapes. Kobe, Bowie, etc. Obviously you don't get to Cosby numbers but yeah. And if this makes you angry, it should. If it makes you defensive, it means you agree.

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Yeah I'm sitting here reading this thread trying to figure out why people are trying to make the connection that bringing up the rape charge is somehow disrespectful to the other 8 people on the helicopter. No one is saying you have to stop mourning the others, simply that you shouldn't forget the guy committed a rape

 

[msdstc]

What do you think it means when one person did not want you to have sex with them but you did it anyway? That's rape

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There's definitely a difference between what Kobe said happened and forced rape. While I agree with your point, he wasn't literally saying "she said no", his statement said "she never said no, she initiated, apparently she didn't want it, but she didn't make that clear". At least to me there is a world of difference between that statement and "she didn't want it but I did it anyway"

 

[cognizant]

Read the wiki page on the sexual assault case yesterday. Unpleasant to say the least.... The tone of some people bringing it up in the thread yesterday was out of line and deserved to be disciplined, but other people were dogpiled for merely mentioning it. It actually reminded me of how when there's a mass shooting some people complain about anyone mentioning gun reform, "now's not the time, we're grieving".

Anyway, I agree with the premise of the article, idolatry is rampant nowadays. Conversely, how are mods going to react when almost everyone will be celebrating Trump's exit one day?

 

[Surfinn]

In the words of Voltaire: To the living we owe respect, but to the dead we owe only the truth



I can't imagine how must she feel reading/hearing about how great person Kobe was

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Yup. But nah, we gotta stick our neck out for the sports deity, since he also did some good things, after the rape. Or are we now defining rape as needing to know you did said raping at the time

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Lots of people downplaying rape around here huh.

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Who is doing that?

 

[Altair]

I don't think minutes after his death was the best time to bring it up again, but neither do I like how his fans pounced on anyone who dared to and basically demanded that mods nuke them.

It didn't strike me as people who just wanted time to mourn. It felt like people who didn't want to hear about it, period.

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Some of those posts were straight up awful. One was somebody being happy that the helicopter went down because a rapist was on board. As if the 8 other people deserved to die just because Kobe happened to be on that chopper as well. That was absolutely out of line and people had every right to condemn it. There's a way to discuss Kobe's rape allegations without lacking any human decency whatsoever.

 

[TAJ]

He's definitely not in the same conversation as Cosby, or even the unconvicted Trump.
Those guys collected victims like baseball cards.

 

[MinusTydus]

I think there is a clear difference between wanting to discuss the allegations in a calm, respectful manner and posting things like,

"But wasn't he a RAPIST, tho?"

"Yeah, he was. I guess there really IS a God.~"

The bans that were handed out yesterday, were rightfully deserved. Those posts were only there to inflame people, not generate a good-faith conversation. It's like yelling, "FIRST!" on the YouTube comments section, everyone knows about it, you just wanted to be the one to bring it up as quickly as possible.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

well too bad, he wasn't convicted

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And as we all know, rapists always get convicted

 

[BAD]

There's definitely a difference between what Kobe said happened and forced rape. While I agree with your point, he wasn't literally saying "she said no", his statement said "she never said no, she initiated, apparently she didn't want it, but she didn't make that clear". At least to me there is a world of difference between that statement and "she didn't want it but I did it anyway"

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Him assuming a lack of consent meant she was ok was wrong on his part and it is rape

 

[Hippopuncher12]

A time and a place - lest people forget 8 other people (including a 13 year old child) died yesterday. I think think pieces on the man can wait, no?

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3 13 year old children unfortunately.

 

[MikeHattsu]

It got mentioned after Bowie's death loads, but its probably different people.

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People who mentioned it in the old place when it happened got permabanned.

 

[Deleted member 17289]

Even here mods were handing out bans because some users were remembering that. The double standard goes along fucking way for sure.

 

[BossAttack]

Interesting you use the other deaths as a shield when you quoted and trashed someone for bringing it up before we ever had confirmation of his daughter being there and well before we knew there were several others on board.

I hope his family is looked after in their grief. But let's not pretend people here knew Kobe. You clearly didn't even know the story you've decided to try and sweep away.

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First of all, I not only know the story I lived through that whole media blitz. I don't care one iota about Kobe's basketball accomplishments, the rape has always been a stain on his legacy. However, from the start of the story we knew others were in the helicopter were with him, hell there was even a false report his whole family was with him, so yes maybe right then isn't the time to bring up the "Kobe was a rapist" as if everyone forgot.

Me personally, I don't worship celebrities. They almost always have a skeleton in their closet. But, I can still respect a person's good works and know the time and place to bring up their faults. During the day of their death which killed other people and everyone is mourning is probably not that time. An article or tweet thread a week later detailing his messy past? Sure.

 

[msdstc]

Read the wiki page on the sexual assault case yesterday. Unpleasant to say the least.... The tone of some people bringing it up in the thread yesterday was out of line and deserved to be disciplined, but other people were dogpiled for merely mentioning it. It actually reminded me of how when there's a mass shooting some people complain about anyone mentioning gun reform, "now's not the time, we're grieving".

Anyway, I agree with the premise of the article, idolatry is rampant nowadays. Conversely, how are mods going to react when almost everyone will be celebrating Trump's exit one day?

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No matter how much we try to spin it, there IS hypocrisy in picking and choosing the deaths we celebrate. If a lesser liked celeb was accused of what Kobe was, it would be a wildly different tone than what he got. I feel the exact same way about David Bowie, who people still champion as a hero, when he had a very questionable history. A massive list of rock stars during that time period actually (unfortunately)- jimmy paige, Don Henley, Steven Tyler, etc.

 

[Ultimate Bear Cub]

I didn't even know about this stuff. Double whammy, holy crap.

 

[Volimar]

Even here mods were handing out bans because some users were remembering that. The double standard goes along fucking way for sure.

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There's not a double standard. The rules are posted for everyone to see.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

Who is doing that?

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There are people in this very thread saying it wasn't rape or dancing around saying it outright

People who mentioned it in the old place when it happened got permabanned.

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really? fucking hell heard the old place was bad but damn

 

[KartuneDX]

.

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

People who mentioned it in the old place when it happened got permabanned.

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In the actual death thread? Or in other circumstances? If it's just the former then thats consitient to whats happened here so far.

 

[BringBackSonics]

Read the wiki page on the sexual assault case yesterday. Unpleasant to say the least.... The tone of some people bringing it up in the thread yesterday was out of line and deserved to be disciplined, but other people were dogpiled for merely mentioning it. It actually reminded me of how when there's a mass shooting some people complain about anyone mentioning gun reform, "now's not the time, we're grieving".

Anyway, I agree with the premise of the article, idolatry is rampant nowadays. Conversely, how are mods going to react when almost everyone will be celebrating Trump's exit one day?

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My guess is they will just lock the thread as soon as it is posted.

 

[Deleted member 42055]

This element of his death is such a mess. If he had died by himself I could understand it… But his daughter, the other people who lost their lives. There's no need to sour the story by bringing this up immediately alongside his death.

 

[MikeHattsu]

In the actual death thread?

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Yes

 

[Darksol]

Who is doing that?

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Everyone claiming accusations of rape when Kobe admitted it? Everyone shaming the accuser?

Kobe was accused of rape and all the good he's done doesn't erase that. This thread will remain open to discuss the accusations against him and allow those affected by similar horrific events to speak their piece.

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He wasn't just accused. This isn't a he said she said. He admitted it. Cut the bullshit.

 

[Mansa Mufasa]

Im going to say this. There's a time and place for everything. Immediately after the untimely death of him and his child is NOT the place to do so. There's a conversation to be had certainly but come on. You can exercise a little self restraint especially considering the tragedy happened a little over 24hours ago.

There's no need to already put the SURVIVING family members who are all women through dragging that back up.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Even here mods were handing out bans because some users were remembering that. The double standard goes along fucking way for sure.

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This was not unique to Kobe. It's in the rules of Era that hot takes and celebrations of death are not allowed in those kinds of threads. They had the same kind of moderation when John McCain died and people wanted to dance on his grave and bring up his past as well. There is a time and place for that kind of stuff. The memorial thread for that person isn't it.

 

[ryseing]

I just find it so weird that most of the people bringing up the Kobe rape story never said a word about Bowie when he died. But a black man with allegations dies we're going to unload everything immediately. Almost like white feminism is.... nvm

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The 1987 allegation occurred before a good chunk of this board was born. I personally had no idea about it until reading thinkpieces after he died. Hell, his Wiki page doesn't really mention it. But yes, keep blaming "white feminism".

 

[CarbonCrush]

3 13 year old children unfortunately.

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Jesus that is awful.

 

[Volimar]

Read the wiki page on the sexual assault case yesterday. Unpleasant to say the least.... The tone of some people bringing it up in the thread yesterday was out of line and deserved to be disciplined, but other people were dogpiled for merely mentioning it. It actually reminded me of how when there's a mass shooting some people complain about anyone mentioning gun reform, "now's not the time, we're grieving".

Anyway, I agree with the premise of the article, idolatry is rampant nowadays. Conversely, how are mods going to react when almost everyone will be celebrating Trump's exit one day?

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The site will probably crash.

 

[msdstc]

Him assuming a lack of consent meant she was ok was wrong on his part and it is rape

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He said she initiated the act by grabbing his genitals and bending over. He interpreted that as consent and she didn't indicate otherwise until the end of the act where she refused to allow him to do a certain act. Point is, he felt she participated, but apparently she didn't see it that way. He's basically saying "agree to disagree" not sayin g"yes I raped her". There is a very real difference there that is extremely clear.

Again I want to point out that I'm not defending Kobe or saying he's telling the truth or that she is lying, I'm simply saying he did not admit to forceable violent rape.

 

[Oreiller]

Who is doing that?

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All those saying "he wasn't convicted" or that "he didn't intend to rape he so it's fine" for instance. You have some of them on this very page.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

Im going to say this. There's a time and place for everything. Immediately after the untimely death of him and his child is NOT the place to do so. There's a conversation to be had certainly but come on. You can exercise a little self restraint especially considering the tragedy happened a little over 24hours ago.

There's no need to already put the SURVIVING family members who are all women through dragging that back up.

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But we're not talking to his family? And we're talking about it here, in a forum where they would have to seek it out to find? Like if there's anyone whose directing the topic at his family they're shitheads but nobody talking about it here is putting them through anything

 

[Deleted member 12224]

This was not unique to Kobe. It's in the rules of Era that hot takes and celebrations of death are not allowed in those kinds of threads. They had the same kind of moderation when John McCain died and people wanted to dance on his grave and bring up his past as well.

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McCain's past was allowed in that thread. Celebration was not.

Kobe's thread was treated differently in that regard.