Vice: Reporters and Activists Are Being Harassed for Saying Kobe Bryant Was Credibly Accused of Rape (Read Staff Posts)

[A real sad boy]

I found it weird that knowing when people like Woody Allen or Trump or Cosby or Weinstein die, they'll have their history brought up almost certainly -

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Serial abusers that have done nothing to own up to mistakes made vs someone that had an encounter that was deemed nonconsensual one time 17 years ago with zero issues since then and instead has a proven track record of community service and supporting and advocacy for women.

The civil suit against him lead to an agreement that he would issue a statement admitting fault. This statement was approved by the accuser and her representation. There was also reportedly no money involved

That doesn't sound like someone even CLOSE to the type of people that you mentioned. Woody Allen raped a child and groomed another for years before they got married. Cosby assaulted countless women. So did Weinstein. None of them showed any remorse, sympathy, or understanding.

Of course those people would get dragged mercilessly.

 

[MazeHaze]

Maybe its different on here, I avoided the post apart from the staff post cause I figured it would be the same as what I saw on twitter, his fans only caring about him and only bringing up the deaths of the others as a defense tactic. His daughter was the exception tbf, people were openly mourning her as well but that was about all I saw

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So, first his fans "only bring up and care about the other passengers when the rape is brought up" and now "people were openly mourning his daughter too tbf". Like, you don't gotta have some vendetta against kobe fans and make up stupid shit to try and paint them all as shitty internet troll , rape apologists. Him and his daughter are the passengers people were most familiar with, and also the first two confirmed. This is an immense tragedy and to try and use is as a reason to pick fights with people on the internet is fucking gross.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I found it weird that knowing when people like Woody Allen or Trump or Cosby or Weinstein die, they'll have their history brought up almost certainly - yet this situation led to censorship of anything by those willing to address his rape allegations. There's hundreds of posts about his random trophies or rapping that are no more on topic with the families dying than talking about his complicated history would be. But for some reason, those who care about the rape need to be quiet and let the clean and pure legacy rule the thread.

The message seems to be that if you want to boost his image or damage control, you're fine. If you have something to say about what you find complicated and disappointing about him, you are derailing. I can't imagine these rules in a thread for the men I listed above. I don't get why a popular athlete is an exception.

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So we're comparing Kobe to Trump, Cosby, and Weinstein. The latter two being serial abusers that have not shown themselves capable of doing any level of good or show any level of remorse. Allen, a child rapist. And Trump, who makes the lives of millions of people worse on a day to day basis and is a racist to boot. Who also has blood on his hands.

The problem is the same thing whenever there is a mass shooting. People who don't want to talk about it play the "can this wait?" card and continue to do so until everyone has forgotten about what happened and then it's not talked about.

Mourn for the person, share fond memories. Just remember that there are bad ones that may come to light that are just as valid and be ready for it.

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A mass shooting is a political problem and one that could be solved in part by effective legislation. And effective legislation needs popular support and activism. A murder victim also has zero shot at life.

Versus a rape accusation (and yes an encounter I believe happened and wasn't consensual) from 17 years ago that he didn't exactly escape scot free from and in the intervening time has appeared to stay out of trouble and reformed for the better by all accounts. Hell, his statement from 2003 or 2004 or whenever it was settled is still better than much of the stuff put out by people when they're accused or convicted today. At least he acknowledged that due to her not acknowledging it was consensual, it made it wrong.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

They don't like seeing a rapist lionized. It's a sad truth that whatever else he was: a legendary player, a philanthropist, a mentor to young players etc., he was also a rapist. People don't want to think that the person they looked up to was also a bad person at least once in his life. Whether he turned things around or not, doesn't change the damage that he and later his supporters, did to his victim.

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I can get that, but at that point, you're baiting backlash and also not achieving your goal.

Depending on what Kobe had done to remedy the situation afterwards (I have no idea if he did anything), then people may also feel he already redeemed himself by his other actions.

And that by itself is a trickier subject to navigate.

 

[Meows]

Context matters. You can hate him and think he is disgusting for what he did while also realizing that multiple innocent people died with him including children and that yesterday was not the time and place for people to be gleefully jumping at the chance to shout about his crime. We had posters saying shit like "there is a god" like it's totally okay for a bunch of innocents to die as long as one was a rapist.

I also think this could be potentially really shitty for the victim who now has a media target on her because people haven't given her any chance of speaking for herself and how she feels but I fucking bet she doesn't feel good knowing a bunch of people are dead like some would believe.

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agreed.

 

[QisTopTier]

There is a time, place, and way to deliver messages like this. The day of with other victims is some petty ass attention seeking shit.

Give people time to mourn, write up something constructive in the mean time about the positives if any and negatives the person has done and the impact they had.

 

[ZeroX]

I don't mean to sound insensitive or ignorant but what point is there in speculating on this 15+ year old situation? Is there that much uncertainty? I know the case was settled and I remember reading something about the accuser embellishing details and a bunch of other muddy stuff regarding the mishandling of evidence and such. I don't know where that stands today but in light of this terrible tragedy it seems awfully shady and falls under character assassination to me, especially when nobody's talked about it like that in the last decade.

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lmao character assassination? In his own words he's a rapist:

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."

 

[Haint]

Yeah, that topic has probably the most bans I've seen in any single topic on this forum yet.

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Bans for the people who called out the rape (under a guise of "derailing" or "off topic")? Or bans for the sports hero fans who were indirectly defending him or brushing it off?

 

[bionic77]

As a society, there is a very strong conditioning to "not speak ill of the departed." My pet theory is that it stems from the idea of "he's in God's hands now" and that us judging a dead man does no good to anyone.

However, as society becomes more secular, the onus of judgement has begun to shift back to us. Especially as we live in an era where it is becoming easier to expose people in their lifetimes, not just years after their death. Bill Cosby's death will probably a cultural turning point in this regard.

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Thats not secular. Thats humanity.

There is nothing wrong with saying anything about Kobe's life(good or bad), but f you are insensitive or clumsy in how you say things you should probably just not say anything about it at all. I have seen more than one article talking about his death bring up the rape charges. But when someone dies if you don't handle it properly then you are the asshole.

Kobe was loved by a lot of people. They are actually grieving at the moment. Thats real. Not just fans but a lot of friends and loved ones. Irregardless of how you feel about Kobe or what kind of person he was, it is insensitive to bring it up to them unless you do it in an appropriate manner.

My mom was not a perfect person (and neither am I). But if someone brought up one of her flaws right after she died I would kicked their ass in front of the casket if need be. You just have to know the time and place on how to handle these things. This is something the internet is really bad at and no one should get death threats for saying anything about Kobe, but when its emotional be smart about what you say. You don't have to get your take out on everything.

 

[Sanka]

I mean even this forum was guilty of it. I get that people want to mourn him but rape survivors should also be able to voice their concern that a rapist is being celebrated. This is part of the reason why rape culture still exists.

 

[Stoopkid]

There is a time, place, and way to deliver messages like this. The day of with other victims is some petty ass attention seeking shit.

Give people time to mourn, write up something constructive in the mean time about the positives if any and negatives the person has done and the impact they had.

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Yep.

 

[platocplx]

I found it weird that knowing when people like Woody Allen or Trump or Cosby or Weinstein die, they'll have their history brought up almost certainly - yet this situation led to censorship of anything by those willing to address his rape allegations. There's hundreds of posts about his random trophies or rapping that are no more on topic with the families dying than talking about his complicated history would be. But for some reason, those who care about the rape need to be quiet and let the clean and pure legacy rule the thread.

The message seems to be that if you want to boost his image or damage control, you're fine. If you have something to say about what you find complicated and disappointing about him, you are derailing. I can't imagine these rules in a thread for the men I listed above. I don't get why a popular athlete is an exception.

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The problem is that all those people you mentioned are all PROLIFIC predators. the kobe situation was far different from those men, and while it was a bad thing in its own right and even at the time the accuser got vitrol a lot of people lump all these situations and people as the same thing. you cannot tell there is a zero sum when it comes to these things, even in the eyes of the law there is nuance to sex assault cases. especially when the dude did everything else right in his life, and while i understand some people feel certain things are unforgivable there is no way you can tell me kobe was the same as any of those scumbags you mentioned who have zero remorse and are damn near defiant of the shit they were doing and had a history of these things.

 

[BAD]

I don't think other famous rapists and questionable figures like Michael Jackson or Harvey Weinstein or Woody Allen are gonna have the same staff post saying not to bring up wrongdoings and keep the thread nice and safe for the denials and damage control stans.

I encourage you to talk to friends and families of those who died and discuss their friend, mentor and relative's rape accusation less than 24 hours since they died. See how that goes.

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Nobody was personally addressing his friends and family here. This is a public board of people following news and entertainment who did not know him. It's ridiculous to protect people's chance to reminisce and say how cool his entertaining was but to tell those who care about his complicated history and assault that it's not allowed to muddy the farewells about his sports and fun personality.

 

[chandoog]

Bans for the people who called out the rape (under a guise of "derailing" or "off topic")? Or bans for the sports hero fans who were indirectly defending it or brushing it off?

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I think both but more for people calling it out.

 

[Rampage]

9 people died, there's a time and place.

but extra woke dudes want brownie points I guess.

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Nobody is calling the 8 other people that died rapist and disrespecting them.

They are pointing out one man, Kobe, is rapist. And that he should not get a free pass of his past actions just because he died.

Kobe's death is part of a larger pattern of society gives a free pass to rapists because power, fame, and being a man (and yes some women).

Yes, Kobe has had a complex life which he has done some good. But that doesn't erase the bad he has done.

Victims of rape world wide have very little voice- and are often ostracized, threaten or killed for speaking up. The time a place to talk about victims of rape is everyday.

 

[Altair]

Whether you think he was guilty or not, the hours and days after his death and his daughter along with 7 other people isn't the time to bring it up. There's something called human decency. There's a time and a place for shit like that.

 

[Cyanity]

Here are my 2 cents.

9 people ( many young children) dying in a tragic helicopter crash is not the same as a mass shooting. Meaning moments after it happens you tweeting about gun control isn't going to help because Kobe Bryant being accused of rape wasn't the cause of the crash. Like seriously no one has forgotten the case but have some decency.

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Basically this. Bringing up Kobe's history isn't wrong, imo. But doing it on the day he died is just pointless and solves nothing.

 

[Deleted member 5359]

Just leave the reporters alone, they can say what they want. Harassing them is asinine.

 

[Surfinn]

I wonder how his accuser feels, having his face everywhere right now.

 

[PennyStonks]

Are you insinuating that the allegations did not have an effect on his life and his career?

Because they very much did.

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he lost a few sponsorships boo hoo

 

[Deleted member 12224]

The problem is that all those people you mentioned are all PROLIFIC predators. the kobe situation was far different from those men, and while it was a bad thing in its own right and even at the time the accuser got vitrol a lot of people lump all these situations and people as the same thing. you cannot tell there is a zero sum when it comes to these things, even in the eyes of the law there is nuance to sex assault cases. especially when the dude did everything else right in his life, and while i understand some people feel certain things are unforgivable there is no way you can tell me kobe was the same as any of those scumbags you mentioned who have zero remorse and are damn near defiant of the shit they were doing and had a history of these things.

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Eh, let's be real. The difference is people loved Kobe Bryant the basketball legend, whereas Weinstein didn't have fans, Woody Allen and Bill Cosby are much older and weren't in situations where they'd have 1/100th the appeal and emotional resonance as a sports star.

The difference people are making isn't their respective rape counts.

 

[antonz]

I understand the idea that you don't want to shit on someones grave so to speak after they just died. But there has been a lot of hypocrisy in how it has been handled. A gaming company has an employee who says incredibly offensive things and it becomes acceptable until the end of time to post in threads about games that company makes about how awful said company is for x employee etc. even if it totally derails and destroys said thread.

 

[BossAttack]

1. Kobe Bryant was never convicted of rape. So, to claim he is definitively a "rapist" is not some fact. While you're entitled to your opinion and while it is a fact he was accused of rape, it's not an uncontroverted fact that he is a "rapist."

2. Kobe Bryant has spent much of his career since then doing nothing but good works for the public and aiding those within the NBA both on and off the court.

3. NINE PEOPLE died in the crash, including Kobe's little daughter as well as several other children and parents. NINE. PEOPLE. INCLUDING. CHILDREN.

So, maybe RIGHT AFTER THE CRASH WHERE CHILDREN DIED isn't the time for you to grab a microphone and tell "Kobe was a rapist!" Maybe you hold that take until after some people have had time to grieve.

 

[Mania]

I just find it so weird that most of the people bringing up the Kobe rape story never said a word about Bowie when he died. But a black man with allegations dies we're going to unload everything immediately. Almost like white feminism is.... nvm

 

[thecouncil]

deemed nonconsensual one time 17 years ago

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lol @ "deemed nonconsensual"

he only raped ONE person! and it was a long time ago!

 

[Coyote Starrk]

They don't like seeing a rapist lionized. It's a sad truth that whatever else he was: a legendary player, a philanthropist, a mentor to young players etc., he was also a rapist. People don't want to think that the person they looked up to was also a bad person at least once in his life. Whether he turned things around or not, doesn't change the damage that he and later his supporters, did to his victim.

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I think most people would agree with you. I know I do at least. The fact that Kobe changed his life for the better as time went on and bettered himself as a human being is great obviously but it doesn't change what happened.

I think the problem though is that people on Twitter and elsewhere are diving into conversations about how people looked up to Kobe or how they were inspired by him in their childhood and basically just saying yeah but he was accused of rape so you shouldn't care. It's just a really crappy way to go about things especially given the context of his death and everything surrounding it in my opinion. And I think a lot of other people have the same problem as me.

 

[janoGX]

About the bans and the past thread of the news: It's okay to put judgment in a person, I really respect when there's a separate view, but going to a mourning thread where everyone is putting condolences about him and the other people who were victims of a gruesome accident?

It's like going to someone's funeral and acting like the Westboro Baptist Church picketing anyone. Other people died there too, at least, don't participate, make a separate thread, it's not hard.

 

[FF Seraphim]

There is a time, place, and way to deliver messages like this. The day of with other victims is some petty ass attention seeking shit.

Give people time to mourn, write up something constructive in the mean time about the positives if any and negatives the person has done and the impact they had.

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This. No one is going to even listen until the mourning period is over anyway. So why bring up the topic when you know the discourse will be met with deaf ears and die out before anyone can full comprehend it.

 

[MarauderShields]

Bans for the people who called out the rape (under a guise of "derailing" or "off topic")? Or bans for the sports hero fans who were indirectly defending him or brushing it off?

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How about bans for people who were celebrating that the accident occurred?

 

[Psychonaut]

It is acceptable and even necessary to recognize that cultural icons, whether they are alive or dead, can be at fault. Maybe within a couple hours of his tragic unexpected death ain't the time to do it though?

It will always be a part of his legacy. My first reaction was shock and sadness. My second reaction was to recall his assault charges and spend the rest of the day very confused. People shouldn't be bullied into sweeping it under the rug just because of an unrelated event, but I don't know, it just doesn't feel like the right time yet. I get that that attitude just creates a scenario in which goal posts are shifted ad infinitum, but why can't people just be sad after someone dies? He was certainly more prolific as a baller than a rapist, so why not let people have that for, like, a day?

Obviously none of this is meant to condone harassing reporters. I'm just reflecting on how to deal with this sort of person and their legacy.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

We had posters saying shit like "there is a god" like it's totally okay for a bunch of innocents to die as long as one was a rapist.

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I will say this, while I don't think there is anything wrong with not feeling sad about him beind dead and pointing out he is a rapist when people started lionising him, anyone who said shit like this should be ashamed of themselves. And I'd like to think all of us here agree on that

 

[Abylim]

1. Kobe Bryant was never convicted of rape. So, to claim he is definitively a "rapist" is not some fact. While you're entitled to your opinion and while it is a fact he was accused of rape, it's not an uncontroverted fact that he is a "rapist."

2. Kobe Bryant has spent much of his career since then doing nothing but good works for the public and aiding those within the NBA both on and off the court.

3. NINE PEOPLE died in the crash, including Kobe's little daughter as well as several other children and parents. NINE. PEOPLE. INCLUDING. CHILDREN.

So, maybe RIGHT AFTER THE CRASH WHERE CHILDREN DIED isn't the time for you to grab a microphone and tell "Kobe was a rapist!" Maybe you hold that take until after some people have had time to grieve.

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He settled out of court and admitted he had non consensual sex with her. Stop trying to diminish what that poor woman went through

 

[Deleted member 12224]

I just find it so weird that most of the people bringing up the Kobe rape story never said a word about Bowie when he died. But a black man with allegations dies we're going to unload everything immediately. Almost like white feminism is.... nvm

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You think that has anything to do with the fact that Kobe Bryant's misconduct occurred after he was a 3 time champion, going for a 4th, in 2004 and had a resulting media frenzy, whereas most of us on this board weren't alive when the David Bowie misconduct occurred and it never reared up again in today's modern media climate, or would you like to plow ahead and make more accusations of racism.

 

[Banana Aeon]

I just find it so weird that most of the people bringing up the Kobe rape story never said a word about Bowie when he died. But a black man with allegations dies we're going to unload everything immediately. Almost like white feminism is.... nvm

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HMMMMMM

I wonder why? What could possibly be the difference?

 

[TAJ]

That guy who pointed out that none of the people attacking his posts had denied the rape went out like a boss.

 

[Mr Jones]

As I said in the other thread - my issue is when you just say trollish bullshit like Ari Shaffir tweeted. You want to talk about how an alleged rapist died? Fine. Go for it.

You say some raw shit about being glad that the helicopter crashed? Nah, man. That's so out of pocket that it's not even worth spending time being mad about it. Just write them off as an insignificant troll and move on.

There are people who are in pain about Kobe Bryant. Not because they were fans, but be cause they were negatively affected by him, and seeing him adored and revered, despite the bad things that he's done, can be isolating and painful. They deserve a voice.

Then there are others who are trolls. Don't feed 'em.

 

[Wazzy]

1. Kobe Bryant was never convicted of rape. So, to claim he is definitively a "rapist" is not some fact. While you're entitled to your opinion and while it is a fact he was accused of rape, it's not an uncontroverted fact that he is a "rapist."

2. Kobe Bryant has spent much of his career since then doing nothing but good works for the public and aiding those within the NBA both on and off the court.

3. NINE PEOPLE died in the crash, including Kobe's little daughter as well as several other children and parents. NINE. PEOPLE. INCLUDING. CHILDREN.

So, maybe RIGHT AFTER THE CRASH WHERE CHILDREN DIED isn't the time for you to grab a microphone and tell "Kobe was a rapist!" Maybe you hold that take until after some people have had time to grieve.

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While I agree with you on everything else he most definitely admitted to raping her and that isn't something that should be ignored.

What could be discussed is if he has the right to be forgiven for his actions and if he did enough. Personally thats up to the victim and I would feel most comfortable listening to her and not people gleeful about a tragedy.

 

[Heshinsi]

Crazy to think about the gymnastics to be okay with I thought it was consensual and she didn't. Like how does that kind of dissonance even happen?

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There's an article by the Daily Beast that I came across earlier today, that details the information that was taken from both the victim and Kobe by police. Reading through it reminded me of the C.Ronaldo rape accusation details that were published by Der Spiegel a few years back. Even the way in which they (Kobe & Ronaldo) both talk about the victims is similar.

Kobe Bryant’s Disturbing Rape Case: The DNA Evidence, the Accuser’s Story, and the Half-Confession

The NBA legend has received a hero’s sendoff during his final season. But there’s one incident that will always taint Bryant’s career.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Deleted member 21709]

What happened in Colorado?

 

[Doc Kelso]

1. Kobe Bryant was never convicted of rape. So, to claim he is definitively a "rapist" is not some fact. While you're entitled to your opinion and while it is a fact he was accused of rape, it's not an uncontroverted fact that he is a "rapist."

2. Kobe Bryant has spent much of his career since then doing nothing but good works for the public and aiding those within the NBA both on and off the court.

3. NINE PEOPLE died in the crash, including Kobe's little daughter as well as several other children and parents. NINE. PEOPLE. INCLUDING. CHILDREN.

So, maybe RIGHT AFTER THE CRASH WHERE CHILDREN DIED isn't the time for you to grab a microphone and tell "Kobe was a rapist!" Maybe you hold that take until after some people have had time to grieve.

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Why does it matter that other people died? I do not understand why you're able to use their deaths as a shield against the actions of Kobe Bryant.

There's a difference between calling out the actions of a single person and being gleeful that the helicopter went down. Not recognizing that fact is completely beyond my comprehension. Anyone who's pleased that he died in a helicopter crash that killed 9 other people? Fucked up! I don't think most people are celebrating that though.

 

[Kaah]

Reminds me of the mess of threads when XXXtentacion died

 

[Coyote Starrk]

he lost a few sponsorships boo hoo

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He lost several sponsorships, had to change his number, his wife nearly left him, and the allegations have followed him for the rest of his life and now after his death. So yeah I would say that that the allegations had quite the effect on his life beyond "losing a few sponsorships".

 

[DragonSJG]

I saw Tariq Nasheed share this:
Mod Edit: Inappropriate Tweet Removed

How accurate is it as I hear he's kinda sketchy?

 

[Deleted member 9932]

How Kobe was viewed, before his death, has always been kinda weird. He raped a 19 year old girl.
I understand why the mods did what they did yesterday tho. He still had a huge impact on many people. I kinda doubt they will be coherent in the future, and thats the thing with kobe. He was able to make others forget he raped a 19 year old. Today he would have been expelled from the league.

Banning people who said he was a rapist was disgusting tho. Warn the user and move on.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

So, first his fans "only bring up and care about the other passengers when the rape is brought up" and now "people were openly mourning his daughter too tbf". Like, you don't gotta have some vendetta against kobe fans and make up stupid shit to try and paint them all as shitty internet troll , rape apologists. Him and his daughter are the passengers people were most familiar with, and also the first two confirmed. This is an immense tragedy and to try and use is as a reason to pick fights with people on the internet is fucking gross.

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There were more passengers on that plane and just because people don't know them personally doesn't mean they should only care about the Bryants. And as I said, this was based off of what I saw on twitter, which is a cesspool and I shouldn't have tarred all his fans under the same brush as those I saw there. I'm not just trying to pick fights with people

I just find it so weird that most of the people bringing up the Kobe rape story never said a word about Bowie when he died. But a black man with allegations dies we're going to unload everything immediately. Almost like white feminism is.... nvm

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I mean I saw stuff about Bowie after his death, in fact its how I found out he was a rapist. Though it was brushed under the rug pretty quickly by the vast majority

 

[Vestal]

They're both rapists, it's a fitting comparison

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..........
No.. Fuck no....

There is ZERO evidence that outside of his altercation 15+ years ago that he has done anything other than being a basketball player, a husband, a father, a leader for his community and a role model. I am not trying to discard what happened 15+ years ago, but at the same time we can't discard what he has done since that time.

What happened in that thread yesterday was fucking disgusting because it was drive by posts of people trying to feel superior in a time were a lot of folks were in absolute shock.

 

[Elderly Parrot]

lmao character assassination? In his own words he's a rapist:

"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."

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That really does not admit guilt and is the perfectly curated statement that was probably agreed upon as a part of the settlement. I draft things like this all the time as a lawyer.

 

[Daysean]

I saw Tariq Nasheed share this:
Mod Edit: Inappropriate Tweet Removed

How accurate is it as I hear he's kinda sketchy?

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Tariq def be race baiting

 

[KartuneDX]

.

 

[Chrome Hyena]

This is where it gets tricky.

and this is why the previous poster so flippantly asked that question. How much good does one have to do before something like rape is washed away?

we as a society believe in reform and change, but it also seems like we don't. It's a subject that I am interested in myself.

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Lol because we don't. No one truly thinks so. Ask any ex con trying to get a job if society believes in second chances. Either you do think people can change their lives or you don't. A lot of progressive types talk the talk but never walk the walk. They just love to be "that guy".

Imo it's obvious the dude changed, acknowledged his mistakes and went about literally trying to make other people's lives better the rest of his life.

And we got people in this thread mentioning fucking Harvey Weinstein and Cosby. Total nonsense.