Y'all sure do seem to want to fight about it before the bodies are even cold.
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Vice: Reporters and Activists Are Being Harassed for Saying Kobe Bryant Was Credibly Accused of Rape (Read Staff Posts)
- Thread starter Syriel
- Start date
this thread has literally just started and already people are saying its not the time and the place. Give it time, this thread is getting closed, I can feel it
Do you think the dead would appreciate being used as a shield for a rapist? And I can feel sad about their deaths and not want people to whitewash his deeds. Its awful they died and its a tragedy, especially the children, and that tragedy is worsened by the fact their deaths are considered less important by many than his
User Banned (1 Week): Threadwhining in a Serious Thread
What Kobe did was unfortunate. At the time, things looked pretty clear and he did mostly cop to it. Outside of being in jail, he didn't exactly get away with it. He has a permanent stain on his legacy and he did suffer a civil penalty. It seems some think that wasn't enough. Like jail is always the magic bullet here.
At the same time, I look at it like this. He did suffer some consequences. It was 17 years ago. And since then, I am not aware of any other incidents involving him. By all accounts, he grew up and learned from it and over those years greatly contributed to his community and sport. He's done a shitton more than so many others who have been accused or convicted. That shows me he greatly improved himself as a person and worked to do much more good than harm in general. If he continued to show himself as a shithead, then sure I would easily see jumping all over him. A one-time offender is different that a serial abuser, IMO.
So given all of that I can see why so many are like - can this wait? People running shouting rapist before the body was even cold. Like we all know the controversy. You yelling rapist isn't going to do anything other than piss off people grieving a shocking event.
At the same time, I look at it like this. He did suffer some consequences. It was 17 years ago. And since then, I am not aware of any other incidents involving him. By all accounts, he grew up and learned from it and over those years greatly contributed to his community and sport. He's done a shitton more than so many others who have been accused or convicted. That shows me he greatly improved himself as a person and worked to do much more good than harm in general. If he continued to show himself as a shithead, then sure I would easily see jumping all over him. A one-time offender is different that a serial abuser, IMO.
So given all of that I can see why so many are like - can this wait? People running shouting rapist before the body was even cold. Like we all know the controversy. You yelling rapist isn't going to do anything other than piss off people grieving a shocking event.
Fully agree.
Wouldn't see a staff post discouraging talk of Weinsteins transgressions in his announcement thread.
I don't think that's true at all. Everybody I see/hear talking about it is definitely mentioning the children.
well at least you've established that there is a threshold to get a free rape for you, so again; What does it take?
There's no hard cap on the number of threads we can have.
you can definitely discuss criminal allegations of a celebrity while letting people have a thread to mourn. Unless you just want to shit on mourners.
you can definitely discuss criminal allegations of a celebrity while letting people have a thread to mourn. Unless you just want to shit on mourners.
Not having ever followed sports, I'd say the number one thing I know about Kobe Bryant is that he raped a woman.
Hopefully when the dust settles and the horrible loss of 9 lives eases, the public will reflect better on his legacy specifically. He seemingly has been given a pass for some reason in general. There is no question that if he was accused of such things these days he would be roasted. Maybe because it was so long ago many people around here just didn't really understand the scope of what he did.
The problem is the same thing whenever there is a mass shooting. People who don't want to talk about it play the "can this wait?" card and continue to do so until everyone has forgotten about what happened and then it's not talked about.
Mourn for the person, share fond memories. Just remember that there are bad ones that may come to light that are just as valid and be ready for it.
Here are his actual words, so you guys can stop talking about "accusations" of rape:
"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."
"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter."
Pointing out that Kobe is a rapist isn't disrespectful to the other 8 people on the helicopter, that's just an excuse to hide the fact that you don't care.
e: also mentioning that he's a rapist isn't the same as thinking he and his child should've died, for people trying to make that absurd connection
This sounds glib but sadly it's true. If you make tens of millions of people happy, society gives you a free pass on a few rapes. Kobe, Bowie, etc. Obviously you don't get to Cosby numbers but yeah. And if this makes you angry, it should. If it makes you defensive, it means you agree.
e: also mentioning that he's a rapist isn't the same as thinking he and his child should've died, for people trying to make that absurd connection
This sounds glib but sadly it's true. If you make tens of millions of people happy, society gives you a free pass on a few rapes. Kobe, Bowie, etc. Obviously you don't get to Cosby numbers but yeah. And if this makes you angry, it should. If it makes you defensive, it means you agree.
This is where it gets tricky.
and this is why the previous poster so flippantly asked that question. How much good does one have to do before something like rape is washed away?
we as a society believe in reform and change, but it also seems like we don't. It's a subject that I am interested in myself.
Did someone do the first thing or are you just making a point? Cuz that'd be fucked up.
I dunno maybe actually being genuinely sorry for the pain you've inflicted on other people? FFS who would be all be if we were all defined by our worst moments? I don't know a whole lot about Kobe as I don't follow basketball but from what I've heard he spent the last few years especially putting a lot of good out in the world.
Thank you. People acting like posting on Era about this is the same as texting the wife and kids.
Maybe its different on here, I avoided the post apart from the staff post cause I figured it would be the same as what I saw on twitter, his fans only caring about him and only bringing up the deaths of the others as a defense tactic. His daughter was the exception tbf, people were openly mourning her as well but that was about all I saw
Again, I've seen plenty of people mention the others who died and are expressing sympathy for them all over the place. It seems that it's more folks like yourself trying to claim otherwise to boost your own anger. The only people using the dead here for their own benefit has been people like you.
Thinking someone can change themselves for the better if enough time has passed is not equal to "getting a free rape". You can think what happened was wrong and also believe that Kobe turned his life around and became a better person as time went on.
People need to stop talking down to others who mourn the loss of flawed individuals. A person doesn't need to be a saint in order to be missed or to have had an impact on someone's life.
No disrespect, but comparing Kobe to Trump is a pretty bad comparison to make. We can certainly have nuances about how we talk about controversial aspects of people's lives, but come one.
I just don't understand how any message they are trying to send could be a good one? What I get from someone tweeting that during the immediate aftermath is "don't be sad he died, he was a rapist". I also have no idea how to feel about that that message. I guess at the end of the day I just find the timing to be in poor taste.
Someone else on the web said it better than me, I've felt a ton of conflict for this reason, but while Kobe made press, there was a lot more here to mourn.
Agreed with this.
And also, one of these days I need y'all to explain who you're trying to get this message out to.
Are you trying to convince his fans he did a horrible thing? Congrats, you picked the absolute worst time to do it.
Are you trying to preach to people who feel the same as you? Congrats, you picked the worst time to do it.
Part of spreading any message to a larger audience is understanding how to deliver it and when. That's not tone policing; it's a basic fact of communication.
Crazy to think about the gymnastics to be okay with I thought it was consensual and she didn't. Like how does that kind of dissonance even happen?
its almost like.... and bear with me here, people, normal, celebrity or otherwise are not the sum of their best, or in this case worst behaviors. Its really strange to me how the world at large and even on this forum nuance is no longer allowed.
even in fucking chik fil a threads we have members calling other members "trash people" for eating at chik fil a. and it was largely allowed by mods.
even in fucking chik fil a threads we have members calling other members "trash people" for eating at chik fil a. and it was largely allowed by mods.
Oh I see a ticket requires a genuine apology.
Imagine thinking this was even a blip on the rader for Kobe that he had to turn his life around from.
High profile sports stars seem to get passes, See Cristiano Ronaldo getting out of a credible accusation unscathed. Mike Tyson has morphed into some figure of fun/National treasure, and he was convicted. There's loads of shit that have caused some people to be pariahs post October 2017 that isnowhere near as bad as his case.
Kobe genuinely seemed to have moved on and became a better man since, which is a good job as the facts of the case are pretty damning, beyond some he said she said stuff. Should he have been allowed to rehabilitate his image quite so soon? Of course not, and hopefully less and less high profile people are allowed to in future.
We've allowed public figures who have done reprehensible things in their private lives but great things in their punblic ones to thrive basically forever, and people will continue to do so in varying degrees in the future. Have to take the bad with the good, no use pretending neither things happened.
Kobe genuinely seemed to have moved on and became a better man since, which is a good job as the facts of the case are pretty damning, beyond some he said she said stuff. Should he have been allowed to rehabilitate his image quite so soon? Of course not, and hopefully less and less high profile people are allowed to in future.
We've allowed public figures who have done reprehensible things in their private lives but great things in their punblic ones to thrive basically forever, and people will continue to do so in varying degrees in the future. Have to take the bad with the good, no use pretending neither things happened.
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As a society, there is a very strong conditioning to "not speak ill of the departed." My pet theory is that it stems from the idea of "he's in God's hands now" and that us judging a dead man does no good to anyone.
However, as society becomes more secular, the onus of judgement has begun to shift back to us. Especially as we live in an era where it is becoming easier to expose people in their lifetimes, not just years after their death. Bill Cosby's death will probably a cultural turning point in this regard.
However, as society becomes more secular, the onus of judgement has begun to shift back to us. Especially as we live in an era where it is becoming easier to expose people in their lifetimes, not just years after their death. Bill Cosby's death will probably a cultural turning point in this regard.
I didn't say you were wrong about that, I've had a different experience but if thats what you saw then I'm not gonna call you a liar or something. I'm not using the dead to my benefit and already made it clear in the post you're responding to that I do care, I just see my gripes with him as separate with my caring about him being a rapist
User Banned (1 Week): Threadwhining in a Sensitive Thread
I ain't got shit to say about this or I'm gonna catch a ban. I just know who the people saying this type of shit are and spare no words for them.
Context matters. You can hate him and think he is disgusting for what he did while also realizing that multiple innocent people died with him including children and that yesterday was not the time and place for people to be gleefully jumping at the chance to shout about his crime. We had posters saying shit like "there is a god" like it's totally okay for a bunch of innocents to die as long as one was a rapist.
I also think this could be potentially really shitty for the victim who now has a media target on her because people haven't given her any chance of speaking for herself and how she feels but I fucking bet she doesn't feel good knowing a bunch of people are dead like some would believe.
I also think this could be potentially really shitty for the victim who now has a media target on her because people haven't given her any chance of speaking for herself and how she feels but I fucking bet she doesn't feel good knowing a bunch of people are dead like some would believe.
Yeah, emotions are going to be especially high when people are still shocked by the news. I don't really know what reaction can be expected other than anger.
They don't like seeing a rapist lionized. It's a sad truth that whatever else he was: a legendary player, a philanthropist, a mentor to young players etc., he was also a rapist. People don't want to think that the person they looked up to was also a bad person at least once in his life. Whether he turned things around or not, doesn't change the damage that he and later his supporters, did to his victim.
It's easy, tbh. This is why teaching men about consent is critical. There are tons of areas - not even grey areas - but areas of consensual sex that (for some reason) keep tripping men up.
That's why we need to - as a society - push more education about what consensual sex entails. For situations exactly like this one.
Speaking of tainted legacies.. we listened to quite a few episodes of The Dollop in a row during a long road trip to Big Bend a few years ago. I have not listened to their program after reading this Twitter thread though: https://twitter.com/josh_levin/status/1165614548289753090.
It apparently was not the first time they'd been outed for plagiarism.. here's a much older article https://www.damninteresting.com/a-special-note-to-the-writers-at-the-dollop/. Apparently they now source stuff at the end of the episode, but they're still wholesale making money off other people's efforts which is pretty gross when it's spelled out.
I think it is ok to say that had this happened after the Me Too movement he would not be being regarded as an icon..
He admitted he raped a women yet his money and power allowed him to circumvent justice,MJ being another.
also everyone needs to watch the latest episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm on how to deal with hook ups
He admitted he raped a women yet his money and power allowed him to circumvent justice,MJ being another.
also everyone needs to watch the latest episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm on how to deal with hook ups
One is a sociopath, war criminal, racist, sexist and political leader. You know exactly what I'm talking about. There are levels to evil acts being done. Next thing you know, Hitler was the same as Kobe. Come on.
My first thought when I heard the news was such complete shock that a I psychically recoiled, which I never do.
But my second thought was about the rape. He did it. There's nothing to really fight over. Pretty much admitted it in some very legally comfy ways.
But my second thought was about the rape. He did it. There's nothing to really fight over. Pretty much admitted it in some very legally comfy ways.
Are you insinuating that the allegations did not have an effect on his life and his career?
Because they very much did.
He isn't "credibly accused" he harassed his victim to the point of Colorado changing rape shield laws to better protect victims and then he admitted he raped her.
"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."
"Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."
That's fucked up.
I don't agree with that at all. but then again I don't think wishing death upon anyone is a good idea