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Vic Mignogna Lawsuit |OT| Hold My Beard (Update: Appeal lost, Mignogna must pay attorney fees to defendants)
- Thread starter Sibersk Esto
- Start date
Pointed out in the threadnaught... The TCPA with all its evidence and affidavits are public documents that can be sent to any convention or employer of Vic's so that they can be made aware of the liability they are shouldering by having him appear or employing him.
What?
Chuck drafted a letter that didn't just 'throw the victims of Vic's sexual assault under the bus', it attempted to placate the ENTIRE PURPOSE of the me too movement by denigrating the act of coming forward. Accusations of sexual assault are not 'things getting out of hand', as that asshole, Chuck, put it. Trying to handwave the controversy and allow Vic to remain in his current positions is just as bad as squelching the message, as it neuters the entire point of any consequent action.
Because he's playing both sides - the side of the sexually assaulted victims AND the side of the decades long sexual predator with a reputation for abusive behavior - may make him better than the average internet shitposter across anime forums or twitter, but that bar is so fucking low, it's subterranean and means nothing. Socializing with an asshole like Vic who is actively pursuing legal recourse against his victims is not excused by paying the most basic of lip-service expected of anyone with a conscience. The big mistake he made was JUST ABOUT MOST of the fucking shit he did in regards to this situation.
Being better than the vitriol found on twitter is not a defensible position, it's literally the minimum effort one could put forth beyond zero. That doesn't excuse his behavior at any step of this ordeal.
I've heard stories of people giving their phone numbers to Vic and Vic giving them his phone number which had me totally questioning that practice.
Anyone defending this guy needs to get out of this thread. You are not an ally.
Okay glad to see I wasn't the only one rubbed the wrong way 10x over by those messages people posted from Chuck.
The lukewarm reaction to them made me wonder if I was missing something, as they came across pretty gross to me.
The lukewarm reaction to them made me wonder if I was missing something, as they came across pretty gross to me.
Because apparently it's too hard to criticize someone you're a fan of, even if they're a victim-blaming piece of trash that literally said Monica and Jaime's coming out "did harm to victims of sexual assault by making it more difficult for them to come forward." That's full-on victim blaming, dissuades other victims from coming forward, and deserves no sympathetic consideration. Screw Chuck.
I think it's unfortunate that Chuck's name is at the bottom, given the possibility that he may not have actually written the statement, if, as some claim that rather it was a proposed statement from Vic's side, rather than a suggested middleground proposed by Chuck.
But it's not a good look as it stands alone.
He, as said above, owes no one an apology, or an explanation, however he should surely see the value in clearing that up properly rather than leaving such a one-sided, and IMO, horrific statement with his name attached to the bottom because without that clarification you can only draw the conclusion that the words in the statements come from the person named in the document.
But it's not a good look as it stands alone.
He, as said above, owes no one an apology, or an explanation, however he should surely see the value in clearing that up properly rather than leaving such a one-sided, and IMO, horrific statement with his name attached to the bottom because without that clarification you can only draw the conclusion that the words in the statements come from the person named in the document.
Okay, here's a question. Why was Chuck involved at all?
If Chuck was asked to mediate, then playing both sides is a necessary part of the role, since he'd be trying to find a compromise that would resolve the situation without having to resort to legal means. I don't know of the circumstances that caused him to be involved, but since he talks about his "legal and ethical obligations", I wonder if Texas might have adopted a mediation requirement in order to reduce the reliance on expensive court time. It did come up earlier in the case that Texas does require the plaintiff of a defamation case to demand a retraction, so at least that far I know that measures that demand an attempt at non-litigious resolution are known to in place.
A mediator in this case would be in a hopeless position, I think, because it's hard to imagine a compromise that would be satisfying to both parties. Vic wants to continue abusing others while they're kept silent. The victims want the truth to be acknowledged and the abuse behaviour to stop. You can't have both.
Having said that, I think Chuck's proposal was particularly bad even for that. Both Vic and his victims would have to lie in a way that was in Vic's favour, and the victims would get nothing. Even if Chuck was charmed by Vic and assumed that he was a good guy underneath, Ultimately the real issue lies entirely with Vic, and even if there was a redemptive path it should focus on Vic acknowledging what he's doing and doing enough to make up for it that the victims are satisfied. That compromise would never actually happen, but neither would the one Chuck proposed, of course.
But that's only if Chuck is put into the role of mediator. If he wasn't and he was just pressuring Monica into settling on Vic's behalf, that would be a significantly different situation.
I do think Chuck should be judged for the issues he does that are actually harmful and relevant to the case, though. The flat earth thing doesn't have anything to do with Vic, and asking Funimation to donate to relevant charities while Vic foots the legal bill isn't a malicious act. I think he's acted in a way that's clearly caused harm, I just don't know for certain why he did so.
If Chuck was asked to mediate, then playing both sides is a necessary part of the role, since he'd be trying to find a compromise that would resolve the situation without having to resort to legal means. I don't know of the circumstances that caused him to be involved, but since he talks about his "legal and ethical obligations", I wonder if Texas might have adopted a mediation requirement in order to reduce the reliance on expensive court time. It did come up earlier in the case that Texas does require the plaintiff of a defamation case to demand a retraction, so at least that far I know that measures that demand an attempt at non-litigious resolution are known to in place.
A mediator in this case would be in a hopeless position, I think, because it's hard to imagine a compromise that would be satisfying to both parties. Vic wants to continue abusing others while they're kept silent. The victims want the truth to be acknowledged and the abuse behaviour to stop. You can't have both.
Having said that, I think Chuck's proposal was particularly bad even for that. Both Vic and his victims would have to lie in a way that was in Vic's favour, and the victims would get nothing. Even if Chuck was charmed by Vic and assumed that he was a good guy underneath, Ultimately the real issue lies entirely with Vic, and even if there was a redemptive path it should focus on Vic acknowledging what he's doing and doing enough to make up for it that the victims are satisfied. That compromise would never actually happen, but neither would the one Chuck proposed, of course.
But that's only if Chuck is put into the role of mediator. If he wasn't and he was just pressuring Monica into settling on Vic's behalf, that would be a significantly different situation.
I do think Chuck should be judged for the issues he does that are actually harmful and relevant to the case, though. The flat earth thing doesn't have anything to do with Vic, and asking Funimation to donate to relevant charities while Vic foots the legal bill isn't a malicious act. I think he's acted in a way that's clearly caused harm, I just don't know for certain why he did so.
He's not a professional mediator, thus he should have fucked right off instead of writing a misogynist bullshit email. If he couldn't help himself being a misogynist, he should have shut his damn mouth instead of trying to insert himself into this.
Unreal that people in here who are explicitly KickVic are defending this asshole to the death. Are you people only an ally when it's a shitty voice actor who's doing this shit? And as soon as it's someone you like, THEY CAN'T POSSIBLY BE A BAD PERSON? Come on.
I didn't even know who Chuck Huber was at the start of this. I also never claimed that he wasn't in the wrong here. All I've been saying is that I don't know whether it's malice or incompetence - neither of which I think should be ignored - based on the information we have, which I'll stand by until I see better information.
Only a misogynist could have written an email like that. Straight up. I think it's malice AND incompetence.
Yeah ngl I'm side-eyeing anyone who thinks Chuck looks good or even "alright" after this. He's a "nice guy" misogynist and the language he uses in those emails and the "statements" he issued to both Monica/Jamie and Vic are a pretty good indicator of his true colours. Just because he himself isn't a rapist POS doesn't mean that he isn't a festering trash-man.
Given the type of people from the past I know who've gotten to casually hang out with Chuck at the cons, this doesn't surprise me.
fixed
fixed
Like I said, he's a "nice guy" misogynist--the kind that's rarely ~outwardly~ aggressive/sexist, yet harbours deeply bigoted views and prefers peace over justice when it comes to women's issues.
When faced with credible allegations that his friend was a serial sexual harasser, he tried to take the "both sides" approach and silence women for trying to speak up. That alone should be evidence that he's scum.
As someone who posted about Chuck, I just want to say that I wasn't trying to defend him.
Anyone defending this guy needs to get out of this thread. You are not an ally.
Someone asked why there was any debate about him at all, and I said that (because we don't know the context of that letter, or at least I don't) there's maybe a slightly more generous interpretation than the obviously-terrible face of it, which is that maybe he's an idiot, and a coward, and the kind of person who creates the environment needed for people lie Vic to thrive in the first place. On the asshole scale, maybe he's more of a Michael Scott-type.
Did he really want Vic to get off scott free? Does he still want to be friends with Vic after everything he's learned? I don't know, but if he does, he's trash.
But apparently he was and still is friends with Monica? I feel like that should maybe skew things towards a more generous assessment of him as a person. She obviously knows him better than I do (I googled his name and the only thing I recognized is that he voiced Emperor Pilaf in Dragonball, and that guy who chimera'ed his wife and daughter in FMA, so yeah, I don't know him).
Eh, no. This isn't really how this works.
People are all allowed to make their own judgments about each other, and they can all set whatever criteria they want for people to meet to earn their friendship/acquaintanceship/business/support/etc.... In this case, people are certainly able to say "I'm not a fan of this guy, seems like an asshole for this statement. I won't consider him a decent person until he apologizes for it, and retracts it."
He doesn't owe anyone an apology, but nobody else owes him their support or their sword.
If we're already at the point where we're making snap judgements about the moral status of other users I want to say for the record I don't even know who Chuck is and was just offering my 2 cents on how the message came off. I have no stake in the game when it comes to this guy, but I stand by what I said that he seems more ignorant to me than deliberately malicious. Not that it ultimately matters, as after all the result is the same. I do think people hounding him to apologize on Twitter will probably make him double down though since that's generally what happens when people ignorant of their own biases are accused.
"Maybe Chuck is just ignorant/dumb/doesn't know better/is actually a nice guy"
Sounds like the defense people used in Vic as well.
I already wrote my opinion but because apparently it wasn't 100% clear let me show you what my opinion is based on.
What he wanted Vic to write:
"I'm a sex-addict. I need help. I will get help. I will not go to Conventions until i got help. I'm sorry for everybody i hurt."
What he wanted Monica and Jamie to write. (Here i'll quote and add my personal thoughts in red).
This is LITERALLY saying "We are not actual victims and to blame for the behaviour of those incel assholes surrounding people like Nick who attack victims who dare to speak out. Vic was only being friendly and everything we said about him were lies or overreactions."
This basically says. "If you have stories about Vic... shut the fuck up"
What he wanted Funimation to say:
"We reconsidered and Vic will get ALL his old roles back and while we don't plan to use him in future projects we can always discuss. We added 3 times more money to the Crowdfunding and donate it to RAINN."
The WHOLE thing basically lets Vic get away Scot-free while his victims take the fall.
And to make sure they accept this bullshit. He hammers it down by threats.
"You will be on your own. Anyone egging you on toward the suit does not have your best interest at heart nor your financial responsibility."
"If you are talking to attorneys, then legally and ethically my job is done" (How dare you talk to professionals?)
He basically tells them that they either accept his "generous offer" or they will suffer for it. They will be alone and helpless. And please remember. He is using these implications on victims of sexual assault. He's basically threatening them with an emotion they already experienced and fear.
Threatening victims, accusing them of lying and protecting a predator. The fact that he is a flatearther speaks for him, that he actually might just be an ignorant idiot. But i agree with others in here. He's a "nice guy"-Misogynist who tries to act friendly but in his core is just another piece of shit.
Sounds like the defense people used in Vic as well.
I already wrote my opinion but because apparently it wasn't 100% clear let me show you what my opinion is based on.
What he wanted Vic to write:
"I'm a sex-addict. I need help. I will get help. I will not go to Conventions until i got help. I'm sorry for everybody i hurt."
What he wanted Monica and Jamie to write. (Here i'll quote and add my personal thoughts in red).
This is LITERALLY saying "We are not actual victims and to blame for the behaviour of those incel assholes surrounding people like Nick who attack victims who dare to speak out. Vic was only being friendly and everything we said about him were lies or overreactions."
This basically says. "If you have stories about Vic... shut the fuck up"
What he wanted Funimation to say:
"We reconsidered and Vic will get ALL his old roles back and while we don't plan to use him in future projects we can always discuss. We added 3 times more money to the Crowdfunding and donate it to RAINN."
The WHOLE thing basically lets Vic get away Scot-free while his victims take the fall.
And to make sure they accept this bullshit. He hammers it down by threats.
"You will be on your own. Anyone egging you on toward the suit does not have your best interest at heart nor your financial responsibility."
"If you are talking to attorneys, then legally and ethically my job is done" (How dare you talk to professionals?)
He basically tells them that they either accept his "generous offer" or they will suffer for it. They will be alone and helpless. And please remember. He is using these implications on victims of sexual assault. He's basically threatening them with an emotion they already experienced and fear.
Threatening victims, accusing them of lying and protecting a predator. The fact that he is a flatearther speaks for him, that he actually might just be an ignorant idiot. But i agree with others in here. He's a "nice guy"-Misogynist who tries to act friendly but in his core is just another piece of shit.
Nick is the guy who's been streaming Vic's lawsuit against funimation and former co-workers
Chuck is another VA(?) who also seems like a rape apologist
I suppose since I have talked to Chuck beyond a few minutes at a signing I'm letting my own personal feelings get in the way. When it's narrowed down that way, Doctor Y, it is more than shitty. I had to take a moment and reflect because if how I feel aligns even remotely to Vic's army, I need to re-evaluate myself. I think anyone defending Chuck should also re-evaluate themselves. You can still like his work and look back fondly on any memories you have of him. But he's dead wrong on this. He definitely favored Vic over the women in that email. And now everyone knows it. He should apologize.
I am greatly disappointed in him. To be honest i felt pretty sick to my stomach when he was first named in the deposition. Maybe I was rationalizing his behavior because I didn't want to believe it.
I am sincerely hoping he apologized to Monica and Jamie considering they're still friends.
I am greatly disappointed in him. To be honest i felt pretty sick to my stomach when he was first named in the deposition. Maybe I was rationalizing his behavior because I didn't want to believe it.
I am sincerely hoping he apologized to Monica and Jamie considering they're still friends.
Anime News Network article on the motion to dismiss.
I think you guys should try to ask Jamie on twitter what she makes of the situation regarding Chuck.
She doesn't hesitate to call out hypocrites so I'm sure she would if asked and she felt like Chuck deserves it.
That'd share some light on the missing context (what did he know, did he apologize etc...).
Also just for the record, Vic's private behavior with young impressionable fans was not widespread knowledge. What was known was his public inappropriate behavior. Monica and Jamie were still friends with Vic right before the scandal regarding his public behavior broke, so they clearly did not know of Vic's atrocious actions in private. (Which includes all the horrors found in the TCPA)
I don't think we should assume Chuck knew at the time he tried to help Vic. If he did, I agree he is 100% irredeemable.
He never said the allegations did not happen, and wanted Vic to admit he hurt people. Also called Jamie truthful publicly. So it's a strike contrast with the typical Vic stans. He just foolishly thought Vic deserved a second chance because they're both Christians and I guess he believes in redemption and there was no talk of actual rape. (at least not beyond twitter chatters)
I absolutely don't agree with that, but I can understand how a guy like Chuck stepped into this mess.
That's a very bad look, regardless.
Hopefully Jamie can speak up. Her words would be extremely helpful.
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Now on another hand, I think this will make you guys' day because this is so perfect it's ... haunting
She doesn't hesitate to call out hypocrites so I'm sure she would if asked and she felt like Chuck deserves it.
That'd share some light on the missing context (what did he know, did he apologize etc...).
Also just for the record, Vic's private behavior with young impressionable fans was not widespread knowledge. What was known was his public inappropriate behavior. Monica and Jamie were still friends with Vic right before the scandal regarding his public behavior broke, so they clearly did not know of Vic's atrocious actions in private. (Which includes all the horrors found in the TCPA)
I don't think we should assume Chuck knew at the time he tried to help Vic. If he did, I agree he is 100% irredeemable.
He never said the allegations did not happen, and wanted Vic to admit he hurt people. Also called Jamie truthful publicly. So it's a strike contrast with the typical Vic stans. He just foolishly thought Vic deserved a second chance because they're both Christians and I guess he believes in redemption and there was no talk of actual rape. (at least not beyond twitter chatters)
I absolutely don't agree with that, but I can understand how a guy like Chuck stepped into this mess.
That's a very bad look, regardless.
Hopefully Jamie can speak up. Her words would be extremely helpful.
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Now on another hand, I think this will make you guys' day because this is so perfect it's ... haunting
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Maybe you can ask Jamie? I rather not.
I don't doubt Chuck wasn't aware of most that was revealed in the deposition. What he's being judged on here are the emails alone. Even if he only knew just Jamie's and Monica's experiences, still doesn't change the fact he is at fault for what he wanted these brave women to say. He also wanted Funimation to continue employing Vic anyway after decade long abuse of their employees. He threw all his colleagues under the bus by doing that.. not just Monica and Jamie but anyone else Vic was mistreating. I wonder if Chuck would be singing the same tune if it was his wife or children Vic was abusing or harassing? I highly doubt it. Intentionally or not, he minimized the experiences of these two women and in turn minimized the experience of Vic's other victims. It isn't fair and he should be called out on it. That's not what a friend would do. What if the women agreed? By some.. I don't want to say "miracle" but... What if that email actually worked out the way Chuck intended? What if the emails did it's job and created fear for the women? That would have been an awful situation to continue letting Vic get away with everything and if Chuck was the reason Vic was STILL working like nothing happened... I'm not sure if I could forgive Chuck honestly.
Even if things have smoothed over between Chuck and Jamie and Monica, (which I positively hope for and wouldn't be surprised if that's the case since he mutually follows the women on Twitter, and like you said nothing bad had been said about him) that still doesn't excuse his poor behavior in that email. He wanted to silence them and not let Vic feel the repercussions of his mistakes.
Don't get me wrong..I still would like to think Chuck meant well, he wanted both parties to be okay but as Doctor Y said that can't happen.
I've said it before that Chuck likes to see both sides of every story. He really does see redemption for everyone which is quite refreshing and uplifting. Chuck can feel like a beacon of hope if you've ever conversed with him enough. But there can be no redemption if Vic doesn't suffer the consequences of his YEARS of harassment and abuse. And Chuck can't be Devil's Advocate AND be an ally for victims. He may not be scum like Nick but he can and should be better.
And oh god. *uncomfortable Kif sounds*
I've seen him dressed as Brannigan but didn't know he played him for a fan film. His impression isn't even that good. I wouldn't be surprised if that was his idea to cast himself as Brannigan specifically.
I've seen him dressed as Brannigan but didn't know he played him for a fan film. His impression isn't even that good. I wouldn't be surprised if that was his idea to cast himself as Brannigan specifically.
Oh fuck's sake. Let me guess, it's full of ''I'm a liar'' garbage?
I know I've seen a few "Tee hee! Gonna ruin some careers now..." comments from parody accounts here and there.
A few things here:
1. Him supporting Jamie means little, since that e-mail was to Monica (and Ron?), with Monica being the one to CC in Jamie right before he dropped the proposed statements. Maybe Jamie's ok with him, but that doesn't mean the others are, and it's weird to want to bring her into it besides. Cause frankly maybe they're all ok with him, but it doesn't make it any less shitty.
2. That tweet supporting Jamie looks like it was about a month before he sent these e-mails, so that also doesn't help much given that he was apparently willing to support Vic like this even after it.
3. What I've bolded is very wrong. My impression of him from stories of him I read - maybe 5+ years ago now - was not "rude to con staff". It was "a creep". That stuff was already out there in general. Hell, even Vic's admitted as much in his deposition, the "rumor panel" stuff, etc. The rumors they talk about in those cases were not "he's a diva".
4. I think you mean well, but "Monica and Jamie were still friends with Vic" is buying into the same misunderstandings he's been claiming as reality and his supporters are using as evidence of hypocrisy. Professionalism and getting along for work purposes (or to not have your career hurt by his influence) are not the same as being actually friendly or wanting to be around someone. Similarly, I don't know how they "clearly did not know of Vic's atrocious actions in private" when some of those actions were directed at them...? Maybe they didn't hear the stories about who else he was targeting, but it's not like they thought he was just a diva after stuff, y'know, happened to them?
I don't have any problem thinking the worst of Chuck because I barely know of the guy, but I think this is along my thinking. I only have two relevant data points with which to understand Chuck - his initial defense of Jamie on Twitter and his e-mails. I don't think that's enough to judge his intent. For example, in his proposed "solution", only Vic and Funimation lost money, and donations were made to a charity against sexual violence. Maybe that was because he's allied with Vic and wants a smokescreen to make everything look above board. Maybe he genuinely thought that having Monica pay nothing while charities receive donations would be helpful enough. I don't really know, and so I don't have any problem with anyone taking the harshest read.
But what's clear is that his efforts were harmful regardless of that intent. It was a horrendous solution that provided nothing to the victims. I don't know if it's specifically a public apology that he needs to do because it's not like he failed most of us viewing in the peanut gallery - if he does, it's more important that he addresses how he failed women that speak out about their abuse than trying to win back his fans - but he needs to do something to make up for what he did. He can't just walk away after proposing to essentially sweep everything under the rug and call it a compromise. If he did have good intentions, I'm sure he'd see the issue with what he did once it's pointed out to him. If he didn't, well, fuck him too.
Vic made his own Star Trek fan series while casting himself as Captain Kirk. Zap Brannigan's shtick is that he's Captain Kirk, but without being portrayed as cool. It's easy to imagine that he has some connection with the character.
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Christ, these people are truly pathetic.
If you have that much time on your hands why not find something to actually better yourselves you freaking morons.
I don't know why I misremembered the emails. I thought it was a proposal for Monica AND Jamie. My apologies for that error.
But yeah I agree with you Thammy. My own bias towards Chuck just makes it hard. I'm at least aware of it, thanks to you guys on here. I'm a rape and sexual harassment victim so these topics are very important to me. It's just hard seeing someone you thought was safe turn out not to be =(
But yeah I agree with you Thammy. My own bias towards Chuck just makes it hard. I'm at least aware of it, thanks to you guys on here. I'm a rape and sexual harassment victim so these topics are very important to me. It's just hard seeing someone you thought was safe turn out not to be =(
Saw it linked in the Threadnought earlier. Seems only Vicstans are falling for it. Surprisingly* enough.
* Not surprising. Whatsoever.
No, you were right, it was meant for Monica, Jamie, and Ron. I'm just a bit bad with names so Monica's the one that I consistently remember. I think it was Monica and Jamie in the e-mail chain with Chuck.