[VGC] The former lead designer of Kena: Bridge of Spirits claims he was ‘maliciously forced out’

[Baji Boxer]

Let's take one side of the story, thats fair right?

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You called the guy an asshole, and nothing indicates that's the case. In fact, the exact opposite is inferred by the other party. Why do you feel the need to make up shit about someone's character when they provided evidence to a journalist, is not the only one making similiar claims, and even the journalist was told by the company person that he was a good dude?

 

[Jakenbakin]

Let's take one side of the story, thats fair right?

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Which side of the story informed this take though?

Most likely the guy was let go for other reasons but just wants to drum shit up cause he doesn't get the respect he wants. dude is probably an asshole in real life. Not everyone let go for unknown reasons is a saint.

In all seriousness, As a developer, never do anything for free. Also, you are not entitled to anything you developed working for a company. They own it, you do not. You are not entitled to anything.

This is why we need unions.

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[mavWolf]

Most likely the guy was let go for other reasons but just wants to drum shit up cause he doesn't get the respect he wants. dude is probably an asshole in real life. Not everyone let go for unknown reasons is a saint.

In all seriousness, As a developer, never do anything for free. Also, you are not entitled to anything you developed working for a company. They own it, you do not. You are not entitled to anything.

This is why we need unions.

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It's really hard for me to see posts like this. Not that everything has to be positive. But I worked very hard to help Ember Labs obtain their dream. I crunched and struggled for months. And afterwards they just ghosted me after telling me that they are taking back all they promised.

Later on the reason given to me from someone who knows about the situation and had direct contact with them were "You were just expensive". The journalist while interviewing mentioned that Ember Lab reps said nothing but nice things about me. So even after all this time they had a good view about what I helped them to develop. So I don't know what else I would have to say.

 

[Azerth]

was very curious to know what happened sad that nothing has changed

 

[CloudsFromSpace]

You are right, it's a bit harsh. However, the other side is just as harsh. This site hears one side of the story and all of a sudden everyone is "cancel my pre order now!" Mentality. You won't know the full story, and I just gave an example of what it could be. What ever happened to true justice or innocent until proven guilty. You are proving my case but for the other guy with the outrage against what I said. What makes me different?

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I mean, it's fair to take reports of workplace controversy with a grain of salt, given that there could be any number of factors at play that aren't public. But we're talking about people making purchasing decisions here lol. Average Joe Gamer isn't obligated to apply the same standard of a court (when deciding whether or not to deprive someone of liberty) when they're doing shopping for a hobby. That's just silly.

 

[Atom]

You are right, it's a bit harsh. However, the other side is just as harsh. This site hears one side of the story and all of a sudden everyone is "cancel my pre order now!" Mentality. You won't know the full story, and I just gave an example of what it could be. What ever happened to true justice or innocent until proven guilty. You are proving my case but for the other guy with the outrage against what I said. What makes me different?

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Remember you're talking about a person and not a corporation. It is not harsh, nor personal, to say a company might be doing something bad. Nobody is digging up ember lab employee contact info or anything to make our grievances personal.
Popovich has been very open about how legally he wasn't entitled to anything. Legality is not morality and it's just a case of trying to empathize with his situation as someone who was pivotal in earlier stages.
Companies frequently treat employees like crap.
Nobody in this thread is saying 'go harass Ember Lab' or anything. Or trying to make a legal case or lawsuit. There is overwhelming interest in the game and the goal is just to provide context for potential customers who might want to know about this to make their own choice.
And it's a fucking product that will likely sell pretty well and none of this thread will likely have a material impact. A preorder for a luxury product and you're more concerned about hype not being as high as it could be instead of at least airing a potentially shitty workplace experience.

Like, look at this quote, look at yourself in the mirror and continue to rationalize your behavior please.

It's really hard for me to see posts like this. Not that everything has to be positive. But I worked very hard to help Ember Labs obtain their dream. I crunched and struggled for months. And afterwards they just ghosted me after telling me that they are taking back all they promised.

Later on the reason given to me from someone who knows about the situation and had direct contact with them were "You were just expensive". The journalist while interviewing mentioned that Ember Lab reps said nothing but nice things about me. So even after all this time they had a good view about what I helped them to develop. So I don't know what else I would have to say.

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[WetWaffle]

You are right, it's a bit harsh. However, the other side is just as harsh. This site hears one side of the story and all of a sudden everyone is "cancel my pre order now!" Mentality. You won't know the full story, and I just gave an example of what it could be. What ever happened to true justice or innocent until proven guilty. You are proving my case but for the other guy with the outrage against what I said. What makes me different?

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We are not in a court of law, innocent until proven guilty is not a thing outside that. The person who you so brazenly called an asshole who's sore about being let go with no evidence is in this thread if you want to talk to them

 

[Dr.Ifto]

Remember you're talking about a person and not a corporation. It is not harsh, nor personal, to say a company might be doing something bad. Nobody is digging up ember lab employee contact info or anything.
Popovich has been very open about how legally we wasn't entitled to anything. Legality is not morality and it's just a case of trying to empathize with his situation.
Companies frequently treat employees like crap.
Nobody in this thread is saying 'go harass Ember Lab' or anything. Or trying to make a legal case or lawsuit. There is overwhelming interest in the game and the goal is just to provide context for potential customers who might want to know about this to make their own choice.
And it's a fucking product that will likely sell pretty well.

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Oh for sure. That's why I said we need unions, and never do anything for free as well. As a dev manager, I always, always tell my developers to never do anything for free. It's not worth it in the end.

 

[AlexFlame116]

It's really hard for me to see posts like this. Not that everything has to be positive. But I worked very hard to help Ember Labs obtain their dream. I crunched and struggled for months. And afterwards they just ghosted me after telling me that they are taking back all they promised.

Later on the reason given to me from someone who knows about the situation and had direct contact with them were "You were just expensive". The journalist while interviewing mentioned that Ember Lab reps said nothing but nice things about me. So even after all this time they had a good view about what I helped them to develop. So I don't know what else I would have to say.

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Is this enough Dr.Ifto since this is the person you called an asshole or would you like him to dance for you and bow down in apology as well?

 

[ZeoVGM]

Most likely the guy was let go for other reasons but just wants to drum shit up cause he doesn't get the respect he wants. dude is probably an asshole in real life. Not everyone let go for unknown reasons is a saint.

In all seriousness, As a developer, never do anything for free. Also, you are not entitled to anything you developed working for a company. They own it, you do not. You are not entitled to anything.

This is why we need unions.

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What the fuck is this absolute garbage?

 

[Dr.Ifto]

Is this enough Dr.Ifto since this is the person you called an asshole or would you like him to dance for you and bow down in apology as well?

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Why is he bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's his goal?

 

[Atom]

Why is he bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's his goal?

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Why are Actiblizz Employees being public with their protests? Sounds malicious to me. What possible goal could they have.

Like if your definition of malicious is 'air grievance against employer when said employer did a scummy if technically legal thing', like idk.

 

[Baji Boxer]

It's really hard for me to see posts like this. Not that everything has to be positive. But I worked very hard to help Ember Labs obtain their dream. I crunched and struggled for months. And afterwards they just ghosted me after telling me that they are taking back all they promised.

Later on the reason given to me from someone who knows about the situation and had direct contact with them were "You were just expensive". The journalist while interviewing mentioned that Ember Lab reps said nothing but nice things about me. So even after all this time they had a good view about what I helped them to develop. So I don't know what else I would have to say.

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It sucks that this all went down the way it did. What you helped make looks great, and it's bonkers to me that the people in charge of the company would let their talent go before it even releases. Maybe it's "expensive" in the short term, but not sure I'd be optimistic for the company's future if it's burning bridges with talent before their first product even released.

 

[WetWaffle]

Why is he bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's his goal?

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Oh I don't know. Why would someone who was taken advantage of by their workplace air it out publicly? To warn others so they don't fall prey or to start a movement to make them change for the better. Obviously.

 

[Kupo Kupopo]

As I've learned in plenty of previous threads, I'm gonna sit back and wait for the full story before rushing to judgment.

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what!? how unreasonable can you get!?...

 

[IIFloodyII]

Why is he bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's his goal?

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What other option is there? They already shown they can't be trusted and a single person is pretty much powerless in a private conversation with a company in this situation.

 

[Imran]

Why is he bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's his goal?

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*looks through posts*

yeah that's about right

 

[CloudsFromSpace]

Why is he bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's his goal?

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Why raise a complaint about anything? Not every complaint must be driven by an ulterior motive for revenge or some other cynical reason.

Fundamentally, this is a situation where a contract fell apart because the parties couldn't come to terms that both sides could agree on. These situations often involve bad feelings on both sides that either party might feel strongly about. A counterparty (in this case, employee) who is lowballed, especially after putting immense effort into a project, might reasonably feel hurt and want to share their story.

 

[Dr.Ifto]

Oh I don't know. Why would someone who was taken advantage of by their workplace air it out publicly? To warn others so they don't fall prey or to start a movement to make them change for the better. Obviously.

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Name one company that doesn't exploit their employees in some way? They all do it. It's the nature of the beast until we unionize. Until then, we have to live with it, and not give work away for free.

But, they all coincidently come out when said company is about to release their product in an attempt to tarnish them. But that's ok, this forum will back them 100% and not question any motive, and ban any dissent. It's getting quite predictable.

 

[mavWolf]

My goal out of this is just to make people aware of the situation. I've been reached out to many people afterwards sharing what they had gone through somethin

Why is he bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's his goal?

Click to shrink...

At first I didn't want this to become public. It started as a facebook post, me reliving some steam. But then the story was shared around my close friends. And it eventually got out.

But mainly, I'm bringing this out publicly because I have heard so many stories similar to mine. Where people were scared, or threatened to not speak up about terrible times. I felt that it was my chance to tell a story of something that hurt me deeply as not only a warning, but as a way to heal from the scar that I had carried for all this time.

Afterwards, many people came out and thanked me for speaking out. Shared their stories with me and we had moments of positive healing. Many people don't want to come forward about stories like this. At the time of the interview I was told that I shouldn't speak up by a few. But many others said I should, for the betterment of this industry. So I had to. And so I did.

 

[Imran]

But, they all coincidently come out when said company is about to release their product in an attempt to tarnish them. But that's ok, this forum will back them 100% and not question any motive, and ban any dissent. It's getting quite predictable.

Click to shrink...

 

[dallow_bg]

Name one company that doesn't exploit their employees in some way? They all do it. It's the nature of the beast until we unionize. Until then, we have to live with it, and not give work away for free.

But, they all coincidently come out when said company is about to release their product in an attempt to tarnish them. But that's ok, this forum will back them 100% and not question any motive, and ban any dissent. It's getting quite predictable.

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Thread is a year old.

 

[ZeoVGM]

*looks through posts*

yeah that's about right

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* looks *

Ah, low post count since the day Era opened. Previously banned for complaining that there were too many threads about JK Rowling's transphobia.

Checks out.

 

[CloudsFromSpace]

My goal out of this is just to make people aware of the situation. I've been reached out to many people afterwards sharing what they had gone through somethin


At first I didn't want this to become public. It started as a facebook post, me reliving some steam. But then the story was shared around my close friends. And it eventually got out.

But mainly, I'm bringing this out publicly because I have heard so many stories similar to mine. Where people were scared, or threatened to not speak up about terrible times. I felt that it was my chance to tell a story of something that hurt me deeply as not only a warning, but as a way to heal from the scar that I had carried for all this time.

Afterwards, many people came out and thanked me for speaking out. Shared their stories with me and we had moments of positive healing. Many people don't want to come forward about stories like this. At the time of the interview I was told that I shouldn't speak up by a few. But many others said I should, for the betterment of this industry. So I had to. And so I did.

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Sorry that you're getting dragged back into this to defend yourself. Sounds like a rough time.

 

[WetWaffle]

Name one company that doesn't exploit their employees in some way? They all do it. It's the nature of the beast until we unionize. Until then, we have to live with it, and not give work away for free.

But, they all coincidently come out when said company is about to release their product in an attempt to tarnish them. But that's ok, this forum will back them 100% and not question any motive, and ban any dissent. It's getting quite predictable.

Click to shrink...

No, we do not live with it. If employees have a problem with how a business exploits or abuses them, it's their right to say it whenever they damn please.

 

[Atom]

Name one company that doesn't exploit their employees in some way? They all do it. It's the nature of the beast until we unionize. Until then, we have to live with it, and not give work away for free.

But, they all coincidently come out when said company is about to release their product in an attempt to tarnish them. But that's ok, this forum will back them 100% and not question any motive, and ban any dissent. It's getting quite predictable.

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Like jesus christ.

If this forum backed this 100%, there wouldn't be a fucking OT singing praises. this thread also started a fucking year ago.

You are literally doing the 'Society should be improved somewhat' 'Yet you participate in society. How curious!' bit and its kind of gross. Incremental airings of grievances are valid and we shouldn't have to wait for unions. Obviously the correct thing for Mr. Popovich to do was to not air his grievances, and instead start a union of course.

Do you hear yourself? Nobody is disparaging others or attacking others for looking forward to the game. Nobody is saying go harass Ember Lab. To the contrary there is a lot of positive buzz for the game.

 

[Baji Boxer]

Why is he bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's his goal?

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Are you a child? Have you not paid attention to any reports of company wrong doing ever made? This is exactly how company wrongdoing and abuse is exposed every single time. Mistreated employees go to journalists to get their story out, journalist investigates, determines credibility, finds more sources, then journalist publishes the article.

 

[Imran]

I kinda wanted to see how he responded to the date thing. Oh well.

 

[WetWaffle]

Like jesus christ.

If this forum backed this 100%, there wouldn't be a fucking OT singing praises. this thread also started a fucking year ago.

You are literally doing the 'Society should be improved somewhat' 'Yet you participate in society. How curious!' bit and its kind of gross.

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The sheer audacity of it all. Not only was this employee ignored by the majority of era but the game has an OT and following spearheaded by a mod(not complaints, pls don't ban me) What bs narrative is he spewing that the forum will back the employee 100% and turn on the game?

 

[I Must Not Tell Lies]

Wage theft is one of the most common forms of theft

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Not one of the most - the most. Well more than three times as much as all kinds of robberies combined, and that's only counting the wage theft that was successfully recovered (vs. all robberies, recovered or not).

 

[Deleted member 10119]

No, we do not live with it. If employees have a problem with how a business exploits or abuses them, it's their right to say it whenever they damn please.

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Well said

 

[HiLife]

Oh for sure. That's why I said we need unions, and never do anything for free as well. As a dev manager, I always, always tell my developers to never do anything for free. It's not worth it in the end.

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Not gonna lie, based off your posts and your mentality it sounds like it'd be terrible working under you if you're really a dev manager.

 

[IIFloodyII]

I really don't get why some people just have to bad faith post in threads like this, like if you wanna just be hyped, go on, literally no one is stopping you and the threads are easy to find, but always people who just have to jump to victim blaming instead, because they can't be 100% hyped now or something.

 

[Baji Boxer]

I really don't get why some people just have to bad faith post in threads like this, like if you wanna just be hyped, go on, literally no one is stopping you and the threads are easy to find, but always people who just have to jump to victim blaming instead, because they can't be 100% hyped now or something.

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Seriously. Go to related threads and you can see plenty of people just ignoring the issue, and being excited about the game without going out of their way to attack and harass victims.

 

[AlexFlame116]

The sheer audacity of it all. Not only was this employee ignored by the majority of era but the game has an OT and following spearheaded by a mod(not complaints, pls don't ban me) What bs narrative is he spewing that the forum will back the employee 100% and turn on the game?

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Yeah knowing that one of the mods is super hyped about this and even changed their tag to reflect it stings for me.

But hey its their choice. If they want to be hyped along with the others then I can't stop them. I just won't play it myself.

 

[Baji Boxer]

Oh for sure. That's why I said we need unions, and never do anything for free as well. As a dev manager, I always, always tell my developers to never do anything for free. It's not worth it in the end.

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I can't believe you're a manager, and are only banned for 2 weeks after attacking and lying about a victim that also happens to be a member of this forum.

 

[Deleted member 10119]

I really don't get why some people just have to bad faith post in threads like this, like if you wanna just be hyped, go on, literally no one is stopping you and the threads are easy to find, but always people who just have to jump to victim blaming instead, because they can't be 100% hyped now or something.

Click to shrink...

Acknowledging that there is a problem means you are morally obligated to do something about it.

Which is why some people would rather say "Nah, I don't believe this" or come up with some other excuse that makes them sleep better at night.
Classic human psychology of "I don't want to deal with this, so I am gonna pretend it does not exist".

 

[lemonade]

As a dev manager

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Can't imagine what working under a jackass like you must feel like.

 

[TheGhost]

Forgot about this, shady
Can't support the shade.

 

[Syriel]

My goal out of this is just to make people aware of the situation. I've been reached out to many people afterwards sharing what they had gone through somethin


At first I didn't want this to become public. It started as a facebook post, me reliving some steam. But then the story was shared around my close friends. And it eventually got out.

But mainly, I'm bringing this out publicly because I have heard so many stories similar to mine. Where people were scared, or threatened to not speak up about terrible times. I felt that it was my chance to tell a story of something that hurt me deeply as not only a warning, but as a way to heal from the scar that I had carried for all this time.

Afterwards, many people came out and thanked me for speaking out. Shared their stories with me and we had moments of positive healing. Many people don't want to come forward about stories like this. At the time of the interview I was told that I shouldn't speak up by a few. But many others said I should, for the betterment of this industry. So I had to. And so I did.

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I don't know if you are in the US or not, but if you are (and especially if you or the company is in CA) you can't really work for free.

It might be worth filing an unpaid wage claim with the state (or if you talk to a lawyer and the specifics of the case you might have either ownership of your code or an enforceable lien on the IP).

If you're outside the US, ignore this.

 

[Grazzt]

Most likely the guy was let go for other reasons but just wants to drum shit up cause he doesn't get the respect he wants. dude is probably an asshole in real life. Not everyone let go for unknown reasons is a saint.

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The only asshole I'm seeing here is certainly not him. Maybe you should take a look at yourself in the mirror

 

[mavWolf]

I'm based in California. I don't really have the energy to go after them, neither is it my intention to. In their press release they did manipulate the facts a bit about payment. One being they paid me back by doing animations for a game I worked on. Even though I have an email thanking me for working for free months after the indie game was released. The second being they paid all my invoices, which is true. But I have a few invoices that shows a major pay cut, to crunch for them during our GDC push. This was meant to be paid back after we got a deal and never had been.

But as I mentioned, It's more about telling the story. I had nothing really to gain, tons to lose. And made my choice.

 

[Atom]

Yeah knowing that one of the mods is super hyped about this and even changed their tag to reflect it stings for me.

But hey its their choice. If they want to be hyped along with the others then I can't stop them. I just won't play it myself.

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Kind of related (not mod specific or anything) but I always wonder what the best way to allow and facilitate discussion around problematic companies is. Like Ubisoft has well known issues, Quantic Dream has well known issues, to a lesser extent Insomniac and I guess Ember Lab too. It would be nice if these sorts of things could be publicized in OTs and hype threads, with the understanding that people are allowed to just discuss the game, but that they shouldn't be able to turn a blind eye to issues people might have grievances with and people should be allowed to discuss those things in said threads too instead of relegating them to a smaller, parceled off discussion. I'm glad at least this seems to have happened with Actiblizz.

Tbh I actually think the final Cyberpunk OT did a reasonable job of this as it was simple and plain, but allowed a fair amount of back and forth around elements of the game people enjoyed, hated, and would bring in the problematic elements in a constructive context with some posters linking to and discussing critiques of the game from various perspectives including those from marginalized groups.

Actually this probably risks derailing the current discussion so I probably won't elaborate further. I feel like it's a sort of elephant in the room kind of thing this forum has though and if I trusted myself to properly and eloquently articulate my thoughts I might post a thread but given I'm a bottom-tier englisher I kind of feel it would get blown up or locked or something and not really be a productive discussion for anyone.

 

[Arex]

I'm based in California. I don't really have the energy to go after them, neither is it my intention to. In their press release they did manipulate the facts a bit about payment. One being they paid me back by doing animations for a game I worked on. Even though I have an email thanking me for working for free months after the indie game was released. The second being they paid all my invoices, which is true. But I have a few invoices that shows a major pay cut, to crunch for them during our GDC push. This was meant to be paid back after we got a deal and never had been.

But as I mentioned, It's more about telling the story. I had nothing really to gain, tons to lose. And made my choice.

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This is why I don't work for free or promises anymore. Have everything in black and white on contract paper. Don't trust any company's words, especially the ones that you've never worked with before. No payment, no work.

Even then we can still get screwed lol, at least US have some kind of worker rights thing? Not so much in my country xD.

 

[G-X]

This thread turned sideways in a hurry. mavWolf your not at all in the wrong here for coming forward with your story. A corporation took money out of your you/family's hands for work you did by taking advantage of you as a worker. I don't care if it's gaming, factory, retail or even the damn military industrial complex, I will be in favor of the worker given these circumstances, I would think most of this forum would be too.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

It's really hard for me to see posts like this. Not that everything has to be positive. But I worked very hard to help Ember Labs obtain their dream. I crunched and struggled for months. And afterwards they just ghosted me after telling me that they are taking back all they promised.

Later on the reason given to me from someone who knows about the situation and had direct contact with them were "You were just expensive". The journalist while interviewing mentioned that Ember Lab reps said nothing but nice things about me. So even after all this time they had a good view about what I helped them to develop. So I don't know what else I would have to say.

Click to shrink...

Thats shitty to hear mate. Hopefully you're somewhere where you're talents are valued appropriately

 

[Meriadock]

Why is he bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's his goal?

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Why you're bringing this all out publically? Seems malicious to me? Otherwise, what's your goal?

 

[NateDrake]

I'm based in California. I don't really have the energy to go after them, neither is it my intention to. In their press release they did manipulate the facts a bit about payment. One being they paid me back by doing animations for a game I worked on. Even though I have an email thanking me for working for free months after the indie game was released. The second being they paid all my invoices, which is true. But I have a few invoices that shows a major pay cut, to crunch for them during our GDC push. This was meant to be paid back after we got a deal and never had been.

But as I mentioned, It's more about telling the story. I had nothing really to gain, tons to lose. And made my choice.

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Stories like yours need to be told & we thank you for sharing your story.

 

[Yueezy]

sorry to hear this kind of story. I am really getting a bitter taste in my mouth after realizing there are definitely a lot more cases like this throughout the industry.

 

[Gassy_N0va]

Ugh, disgusting. Thank you for telling your story, even if you didn't mean for it to spread as much as it did. These are stories we need to hear