I agree that this thread should be pinned at the game of the game's release so more people know about it. Hopefully the mainstream sites pick up on this story.
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[VGC] The former lead designer of Kena: Bridge of Spirits claims he was ‘maliciously forced out’
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
I feel like I've often seen him report things based on what just one dev has said. But also the Kena team is tiny so not like hundreds of devs would report an issue.
It just irritates me I suppose that only bigger devs get the spotlight. Makes one feel like it's only of interest to the media/journos if it gets clicks. That's why it's nice to discuss stuff like this and blast it on era, I guess. At least some people will know that way.
Aren't promises usually written down in a contract? I'd be sure to have that in my contract and wouldn't sign if not and would directly and personally question the sincerity of the promise in the same conversation if they don't want to put it down. Don't know about other countries' legal systems but in my country you could sue them over something like that.
That being said I've been working for five years for a small company without any written contract; it's a purely spoken contract we both agreed on. In case something is disputed either side is fucked. But it's a small contract with little money involved so we both are okay with how things are and it worked now for five years.
however, depending on the volume I'd advise to write everything down. Most contracts I've signed, if not all, has phrases that there are no spoken agreements beyond what is written in the contract so there won't be any dispute over something that was said but wasn't written down. So I make sure double that everything is in there.
That being said I've been working for five years for a small company without any written contract; it's a purely spoken contract we both agreed on. In case something is disputed either side is fucked. But it's a small contract with little money involved so we both are okay with how things are and it worked now for five years.
however, depending on the volume I'd advise to write everything down. Most contracts I've signed, if not all, has phrases that there are no spoken agreements beyond what is written in the contract so there won't be any dispute over something that was said but wasn't written down. So I make sure double that everything is in there.
He explained his methodology at some point and no.
Sharing stories (written by others) on the subject? Maybe.
And yes, when studio are small, it's more difficult to have multiple voices.
Man, I'm way lttp on the shitty dev thing. Guess I'll buy the game used.
oops, wrong thread. Sorry for the bump.
oops, wrong thread. Sorry for the bump.
Let's certainly get a full report first before jumping to conclusions
Sorry, I didn't mean to indicate the allegations are proven. Just that this forum is generally interested in being aware of allegations against companies.
It's an interesting developing situation for sure.
Having worked in the creative industry I know that in lieu of payment there does tend to be a "I'll do for you if you do for me" bartering of skills and resources and I'm curious if that happened here.
I just think less excited jumping to conclusions should be avoided and the court of public opinion should be decided more carefully.
Understood. Thanks for sharing your experience. I agree it's not useful to jump to conclusions.
I'll just say it is best to keep this in mind when talking about the game. I'm still somewhat excited about the game, but this will definitely somewhat reduce it in terms of my priorities for upcoming game purchases. And to the user that seems to be the lead designer in question, I'm so sorry that this had to happen to you, and I hope that whatever it is that you are doing today is going well. Things might seem tough but you have a bright future ahead with your own talents, I'm sure of it.
Worth bumping since the game releases tomorrow. I don't believe there was any resolution to this and discussion regarding the accusations has almost entirely disappeared.
Doesn't seem like we will get more information either, so I guess read into it yourself and decide if you personally feel the devs deserve your money or if there's other stuff you can play.
Doesn't seem like we will get more information either, so I guess read into it yourself and decide if you personally feel the devs deserve your money or if there's other stuff you can play.
It's been posted in multiple new Kena threads, they don't care and no one can force them to care.
I don't think we are getting more than this:
Designer accuses Ember Labs of underpayment, unfulfilled promises
Original story October 2, 2020: A former designer working on Kena: Bridge of Spirits has accused Ember Labs of not full…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Partly because there is no real resolution here. It's he said she said at the moment.
"VGC reports that it has seen email exchanges supporting Popovich's claims of unpaid work and being promised a better-paying role than he was ultimately offered. A second, anonymous source has claimed a similar situation occurred where they worked unpaid overtime on Kena and received promises of a full-time position that were ultimately withdrawn."
Sounds more like a pattern than just a one-off thing.
Sounds more like a pattern than just a one-off thing.
Glad this was bumped. Its why I'm not buying this game and it makes me side eye those who are hyped for it
Thanks for the bump. I feel like this gets buried a lot. Wish it was pinned somewhere in the OT.
As always, there are ways to enjoy a game produced under possibly problematic circumstances without directly supporting the developer as much. Second hand is great for this, or waiting for a deep discount/freebie further down the road.
Can't in good conscience support this game especially when the team is so small making it less likely that it is a case of a couple bad actors in a massive corporation.
As always, there are ways to enjoy a game produced under possibly problematic circumstances without directly supporting the developer as much. Second hand is great for this, or waiting for a deep discount/freebie further down the road.
Can't in good conscience support this game especially when the team is so small making it less likely that it is a case of a couple bad actors in a massive corporation.
The scummy kind abusing goodwill under promises they never intend to keep, just to throw people away when the job is done is so common in smaller operations. Particularly targeting people who are early in their career or fragile in their position.
I've been on the receiving end of that kind of behavior (not there).
You would think as they got more funding and scaled up the operations, better people would join in and correct course... but all in all, if foundations are rotten, there seldom can be something nice growing out of it.
Just be honest, if you can barely pay your own people because of the small budget, don t promise the moon to extract more work out of contractors, stay true to your friggin word.
I hope that, if they manage to make good profit out of their game, they will retroactively give good faith contribution thank you money to the people they neglected or worse, be it on Kena or whatever other games.
I've been on the receiving end of that kind of behavior (not there).
You would think as they got more funding and scaled up the operations, better people would join in and correct course... but all in all, if foundations are rotten, there seldom can be something nice growing out of it.
Just be honest, if you can barely pay your own people because of the small budget, don t promise the moon to extract more work out of contractors, stay true to your friggin word.
I hope that, if they manage to make good profit out of their game, they will retroactively give good faith contribution thank you money to the people they neglected or worse, be it on Kena or whatever other games.
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There really is a stink on this game on the heels of its release. It's troubling all around and the fact that people who busted their asses to create a game we're not full paid. Like WTF. Has this company made other games or are they new. Really weird shit surrounding all of this…
Kinda hard to buy secondhand when the physical edition is a limited edition with a late release.
It's a rare thing to know that a studio is acting like dog shit before they even release their first game.
I hope that you can recognize that their company spokesperson saying that they "never promised a certain salary" is just technically correct PR bullshit.
They can make as many empty promises as they want as long as they didn't ever say an exact specific amount right?
This whole situation makes me honestly quite furious. They took advantage of people's goodwill and hard work, and then to make it worse just because an empty promise isn't legally binding, they deny any wrongdoing.
They can make as many empty promises as they want as long as they didn't ever say an exact specific amount right?
This whole situation makes me honestly quite furious. They took advantage of people's goodwill and hard work, and then to make it worse just because an empty promise isn't legally binding, they deny any wrongdoing.
Threadmark
Since no one ever threadmarked these, I've gathered them all in one spot for people just reading this now.
Ach yeah that sucks. Forgot about that. Sale is still an option I guess.
Thank you for bumping this - I have been raising the issue when there have been threads but few care. Reading all the posts even in this thread from people involved which is collated above really highlights that this was likely a systemic problem with this organisation.
I just cancelled my order due to this bump. Thank you and I hope more people become aware of this
I wasn't aware of any of this until today. Thank you to all those who participated in and bumped this thread over the last year. And thank you, darktalon, for compiling all of those dev posts.
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It's worth noting that
What would be nice is if we got an investigative piece from someone like Jason Schreier, but the devs may be too small to uncover much other than what we've already heard.
Well that certainly sounds scummy. Sorry Brandon. Ember Labs should do the right thing and not screw over contributors to their big project.
Thank you for doing this, I hadn't seen this yet.
This is absolutely awful, but unfortunately these types of stories are nothing new.
At least I now know that I won't be supporting this studio.
If nothing else, may this serve as a lesson for us to not get too attached to our work, and focus on our family and personal life first.
Best wishes to you mavWolf
And ignoring regional pricing in most countries!
Kena went from my most hyped game when it was first announced, to something that I won't pick up even on a sale.
User Banned (2 Weeks) - Hostility towards members & dismissing concerns about workplace abuse
Most likely the guy was let go for other reasons but just wants to drum shit up cause he doesn't get the respect he wants. dude is probably an asshole in real life. Not everyone let go for unknown reasons is a saint.
In all seriousness, As a developer, never do anything for free. Also, you are not entitled to anything you developed working for a company. They own it, you do not. You are not entitled to anything.
This is why we need unions.
In all seriousness, As a developer, never do anything for free. Also, you are not entitled to anything you developed working for a company. They own it, you do not. You are not entitled to anything.
This is why we need unions.
Instead of assuming he's an idiot you can ask him yourself? He's in the forum. Might help rather than doing hot takes.
This is kind of uncalled for. Saying about another member on the forum that they are 'an asshole in real life' and 'wants to drum shit up cause he doesn't get the respect he wants', purely speculatively, is really quite horrible. We'll likely never know the full story. It's very much he-said she-said. VGC said they saw documentation and email exchanges alluding to some of the claims, a few others stepped forward, and everyone has to make up their own mind as to the credibility of those claims. But to assume that they are making unfounded accusations, and then doing a weird victim-blamey 'you're fault for working for free dude' (paraphrasing) take is just an awful way to engage. Don't take a side at all if the one you're gonna take is just needlessly accusatory, personal, and hurtful.
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Wage theft is one of the most common forms of theft, and workplace abuse is incredibly prevalent, especially in the gaming industry as we all know. I don't see why it's hard to believe Brandon, especially considering he showed emails to VGC, and Ember Labs, who is the party with the most to lose and gain, has simply put out an rather unconvincing statement.
You mean the side that has two separate people and VGC vetting things occurred as said?
You are right, it's a bit harsh. However, the other side is just as harsh. This site hears one side of the story and all of a sudden everyone is "cancel my pre order now!" Mentality. You won't know the full story, and I just gave an example of what it could be. What ever happened to true justice or innocent until proven guilty. You are proving my case but for the other guy with the outrage against what I said. What makes me different?