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Oct 26, 2017
13,653
Because they have tons of merchandizing, new animes, and etc to pump out. Pokemon ain't just about the games to them.

Easy answer; extend the anime. They did this with the Orange Islands season to bridge the gap between the 1st and 2nd gen. They could just do an original season as a sequel to the Sun & Moon anime. Hell they're already sort of doing that with the new series not being tied directly to Sword & Shield's story.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
Don't forget BN and KT both worked on Pokemon before with Pokken and Conquest respectively. Hell the Conquest team should be the same that worked on Three Houses, as that's their strategy game team. IRONICALLY the Fire Emblem folks wanted I think to work with Pokemon after Conquest but the idea didn't mesh so they went to Atlus instead or something?

Woah.
We will never live in the universe where Game Freak publicly acknowledges that they aren't interested in the hardcore fans anymore and so are working with Atlus to make a more engaging RPG spin-off series. 😞 😞 😞
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,653
What they need is to license an Engine, because Japan has an increasingly large pool of people experienced with UE4, but is otherwise quite limited in the number of available, highly skilled engine programmers.

Agreed. I remember hoping they would've jumped onto UE4 on Switch but for reasons unknown they chose whatever they had from 3DS. Not the brightest idea, especially as you said as a LOT of folks in Japan are experienced in it. Monolith Soft spend YEARS crafting their tech for Xenoblade Chronicles X on Wii U. It's why they somehow got XB2 out in just two years and largely outsourced.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,465
Monolith is a good option, but just for the record Nintendo has also worked with Platinum (Starfox Zero), Bandai Namco (Smash 4 and Ultimate), and Koei Techmo (Three Houses) for these exact reasons in the past.

So take your pick Game Freak. Nintendo has great relationships with all these world-class studios (and even owns Monolith). I'm sure at least one of them could find time to help with, I don't know, the biggest media franchise in human history?

saying "take your pick, Game Freak" is really disingenuous as it probably isn't their call. I dunno, it feels like this sort of thing feeds into this notion that GF is this stubborn goat that's making this harder on everyone so they don't have to okay with others based on... what, exactly? What evidence is thers for this other than situations that certain parts of the fandom have tried to paint in the worst possible light, and dubious-sounding rumors coming out of the dregs of the Internet?

Nintendo as a company still prefers to have games produced on a tidy budget and TPC like most companies would likely prefer similar arrangements. And they're the publishers, not GF. I'm not sure why everyone thinks they'd suddenly be inclined to put up more money and time and also invest in bringing on more devs. Yeah, GF could expand for "their own sake", but that's a long expensive process and those employees would need to be accounted for by an individual game's budget once they joined the Pokémon project anyway.
 

GJ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,854
The Netherlands
Why can't TPCi let them have more time to develop and adjust to hardware? Don't they care about how the product turns out?
Pokémon is a different beast compared to other games. The new anime just started today (they are going to Galar in episode 4), the new TCG set will launch in December, there's a lot of new merch that needs to be in the Pokémon centers and other retailers around the world in time for the holdays, there's most likely a Galar movie coming out next summer etc. You can't launch all that stuff and then launch your games (pretty much the thing your franchise revolves around) a year later. Yeah, they could've postponed all that stuff a year but that would mean another year in Alola without new Pokémon to make merch and cards of. By now everyone who wants it already owns a Mimikyu plushie, Pokémon have been on the cards a million times in the Sun & Moon sets, it's just time for new stuff, so that means new games.
 

Paz

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,162
Brisbane, Australia
This seems totally normal? The games share a large amount of tech and assets, and presumably, they have periods where they need to roll on or off a lot of staff as production needs change.

Artists, for example, are almost always put on to other projects or DLC after certain milestones are met because you shouldn't be making new assets when you're in the pre-production phase of whatever your next project is.
 

Scarlet Spider

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,769
Brooklyn, NY
Pokémon is a different beast compared to other games. The new anime just started today (they are going to Galar in episode 4), the new TCG set will launch in December, there's a lot of new merch that needs to be in the Pokémon centers and other retailers around the world in time for the holdays, there's most likely a Galar movie coming out next summer etc. You can't launch all that stuff and then launch your games (pretty much the thing your franchise revolves around) a year later. Yeah, they could've postponed all that stuff a year but that would mean another year in Alola without new Pokémon to make merch and cards of. By now everyone who wants it already owns a Mimikyu plushie, Pokémon have been on the cards a million times in the Sun & Moon sets, it's just time for new stuff, so that means new games.
It just feels the games are becoming more and more lacking, and I can't truly blame Gamefreak for it when they have such an unreasonable schedule. Like I don't give a shit about the TCG, anime and merch since I have yet to get significant merch of my favorites. Of course I'm the minority but the games are the only thing I truly look forward to with this series. Can't we get some kind of filler for the anime at least so GF can have more time to develop? Would it really kill sales of toys, figures, and TCG if there were no new species of Pokemon?
 

Ryengeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,671
Georgia, US
Pokémon is a different beast compared to other games. The new anime just started today (they are going to Galar in episode 4), the new TCG set will launch in December, there's a lot of new merch that needs to be in the Pokémon centers and other retailers around the world in time for the holdays, there's most likely a Galar movie coming out next summer etc. You can't launch all that stuff and then launch your games (pretty much the thing your franchise revolves around) a year later. Yeah, they could've postponed all that stuff a year but that would mean another year in Alola without new Pokémon to make merch and cards of. By now everyone who wants it already owns a Mimikyu plushie, Pokémon have been on the cards a million times in the Sun & Moon sets, it's just time for new stuff, so that means new games.
The anime could precede the game. Something like..."Enjoyed the new season of Pokemon? Then you'll enjoy the new gen game where you control the outcome of becoming champion".
And then release the totally polished game that won't receive any backlash for being rushed from a studio that's already being stretched thin, while entering into the HD landscape.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,465
Easy answer; extend the anime. They did this with the Orange Islands season to bridge the gap between the 1st and 2nd gen. They could just do an original season as a sequel to the Sun & Moon anime. Hell they're already sort of doing that with the new series not being tied directly to Sword & Shield's story.

The extension on the Orange Islands was made at a very different time, and mostly was allowed to happen because the anime got extended past it's original run into a perpetually running ongoing series. Also the show was still called Pocket Monsters and the production continued more or less the same. These days, each transition from one series to the next is done as if it were a new series and, while staff does carry over, it's production is based on a roadmap to coincide with TPC's plans for the generation, with production also overlapping with the end of the previous series.

The people who work in the anime industry are worked hard enough. Throwing out thousands of dollars on reproduction work just to have someone say "oh hey, we're extending the old show for a few months, everyone come back later" isn't really feasible.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
saying "take your pick, Game Freak" is really disingenuous as it probably isn't their call. I dunno, it feels like this sort of thing feeds into this notion that GF is this stubborn goat that's making this harder on everyone so they don't have to okay with others based on... what, exactly? What evidence is thers for this other than situations that certain parts of the fandom have tried to paint in the worst possible light, and dubious-sounding rumors coming out of the dregs of the Internet?

Nintendo as a company still prefers to have games produced on a tidy budget and TPC like most companies would likely prefer similar arrangements. And they're the publishers, not GF. I'm not sure why everyone thinks they'd suddenly be inclined to put up more money and time and also invest in bringing on more devs. Yeah, GF could expand for "their own sake", but that's a long expensive process and those employees would need to be accounted for by an individual game's budget once they joined the Pokémon project anyway.
What percentage does Game Freak own of TPC again?

At some level when you're looking at Nintendo which entered the HD-era quite gracefully by frequently partnering with other developers, and then look over to Game Freak which just released a game in which the second half is a bunch of gyms stapled together despite costing 50% more... it just doesn't seem likely to me that Nintendo is the partner in this relationship that's hogging the Monolith Soft. They clearly have no philosophical or financial issue with contracting out asset creation. If there's evidence otherwise, I'll definitely change my tune, but until then that argument just doesn't make any sense.
 

GJ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,854
The Netherlands
It just feels the games are becoming more and more lacking, and I can't truly blame Gamefreak for it when they have such an unreasonable schedule. Like I don't give a shit about the TCG, anime and merch since I have yet to get significant merch of my favorites. Of course I'm the minority but the games are the only thing I truly look forward to with this series. Can't we get some kind of filler for the anime at least so GF can have more time to develop? Would it really kill sales of toys, figures, and TCG if there were no new species of Pokemon?
The new anime already kind of is. They're revisiting all of the old regions (and Galar). The first episode is Pikachu's origin story and Ash is barely in it. But these things are planned way in advance. Of course, now Sword and Shield are out they can change their plans for future generations and maybe stretch this one out a bit, but these new episodes, card designs, plans for merch etc were made months ago. You can't really change things like that mid development for a franchise like Pokémon.

 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,465
What percentage does Game Freak own of TPC again?

At some level when you're looking at Nintendo which entered the HD-era quite gracefully by frequently partnering with other developers, and then look over to Game Freak which just released a game in which the second half is a bunch of gyms stapled together despite costing 50% more... it just doesn't seem likely to me that Nintendo is the partner in this relationship that's hogging the Monolith Soft. They clearly have no issue with contracting out asset creation. If there's evidence otherwise, I'll definitely change my tune, but until then that argument just doesn't make any sense.

They own part of the company, but I don't think that's how it works. TPC was set up at its inception to manage the Pokémon franchise and thus has the authority to set things like budgets. GF can certainly make NOISE and hope it leads to a decision in their favor but even Nintendo doesn't really have any actual input on what TCP does or doesn't decide to do. Even they more or less only have the ability to weigh in on things and offer advice, when it comes to things beyond their responsibilities of publishing the games outside of Japan.

And Nintendo's entrance into the HD era was... the Wii U. Yes, that's it. Quite graceful, that whole thing. Regardless, you do realize that from Nintendo's perspective, GF is *already* akin to Monoliftsoft or some outside contractor, right?
 

Syrenne

Producer of Manifold Garden
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
131
Everything in the OP sounds completely normal.

Popping in to agree and to say that my reaction was "only?," not "wow, so many!" in regards to devs that worked on two simultaneously developed projects in the same franchise at the same time.

Go ask an environment artist at Ubisoft how many games they touch in a year. I'm actually really impressed that given the small-ish size of Game Freak as a studio (in terms of employed staff, not including development contractors,) how many developers were able to work on just one project considering they've shipped five projects in the last 18 months (Giga Wrecker Alt, Let's Go, Sword/Shield, Quest, and Little Town Hero.)
 

Lwill

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,629
Is this usual, like how the Zelda teams for WWHD and LBTW joined the development of BOTW?
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
so people saying this "Explains a lot"

when you are done with your projects in your work, once you are done you do nothing like for months until the next project comes around?

of fucking course there is overlap on the teams

wth does this explain at all?
 

Deleted member 1238

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,070
so people saying this "Explains a lot"

when you are done with your projects in your work, once you are done you do nothing like for months until the next project comes around?

of fucking course there is overlap on the teams

wth does this explain at all?
The only thing this thread explains is that there are a lot of people on this forum who don't understand how game development works.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,895
Because they have tons of merchandizing, new animes, and etc to pump out. Pokemon ain't just about the games to them.
You guys keep saying this. You realize the pokemon are 100% designed by Gamefreak and the rest of the company can't even start on their work until Gamefreak is done with the concepts and model sheets, right? Like people keeping putting the blame of tight deadlines on TPCi, but I don't think that's entirely the case

saying "take your pick, Game Freak" is really disingenuous as it probably isn't their call. I dunno, it feels like this sort of thing feeds into this notion that GF is this stubborn goat that's making this harder on everyone so they don't have to okay with others based on... what, exactly? What evidence is thers for this other than situations that certain parts of the fandom have tried to paint in the worst possible light, and dubious-sounding rumors coming out of the dregs of the Internet?

Nintendo as a company still prefers to have games produced on a tidy budget and TPC like most companies would likely prefer similar arrangements. And they're the publishers, not GF. I'm not sure why everyone thinks they'd suddenly be inclined to put up more money and time and also invest in bringing on more devs. Yeah, GF could expand for "their own sake", but that's a long expensive process and those employees would need to be accounted for by an individual game's budget once they joined the Pokémon project anyway.
What's disingenuous is anytime any sort of responsibility is put on Gamefreak, someone brings up the mysterious boogeyman that is TPC. Gamefreak's small size is entirely on them not from a lack of funding to hire more people.
nintendoeverything.com

Masuda on why Game Freak doesn't expand and keeps team sizes relatively small

Compared to the some of the big developers out there, Game Freak is relatively small. Companies like Ubisoft, Activision, and EA have massive amounts of staffers working on their projects. Meanwhile, the core team at Game Freak has only around 180-200 people working on Pokemon Sword/Shield...
 

AzureFlame

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,255
Kuwait
GameFreak.. please Pokemon is not Fifa or Pes, i know business wise it's good to release a yearly game that will sells over 10 million copies even if it is half baked or rushed, but that's just bad for us fans and the development team.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,365
Not surprising, but still frustrating that GameFreak seems adamant to not expand their staff significantly.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
You guys keep saying this. You realize the pokemon are 100% designed by Gamefreak and the rest of the company can't even start on their work until Gamefreak is done with the concepts and model sheets, right? Like people keeping putting the blame of tight deadlines on TPCi, but I don't think that's entirely the case


What's disingenuous is anytime any sort of responsibility is put on Gamefreak, someone brings up the mysterious boogeyman that is TPC. Gamefreak's small size is entirely on them not from a lack of funding to hire more people.
nintendoeverything.com

Masuda on why Game Freak doesn't expand and keeps team sizes relatively small

Compared to the some of the big developers out there, Game Freak is relatively small. Companies like Ubisoft, Activision, and EA have massive amounts of staffers working on their projects. Meanwhile, the core team at Game Freak has only around 180-200 people working on Pokemon Sword/Shield...
You still have to think about the other companies, and the anime studio needs to be notified far in advance for extensions to a series if you plan on delaying the next game. Everything is on a tight schedule, that is the nature of multimedia. And if there's nothing to replace the current season of Pokemon then they could easily lose their time slot, and early morning time slots aimed at kids are hyper competitive.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,465
You guys keep saying this. You realize the pokemon are 100% designed by Gamefreak and the rest of the company can't even start on their work until Gamefreak is done with the concepts and model sheets, right? Like people keeping putting the blame of tight deadlines on TPCi, but I don't think that's entirely the case


What's disingenuous is anytime any sort of responsibility is put on Gamefreak, someone brings up the mysterious boogeyman that is TPC. Gamefreak's small size is entirely on them not from a lack of funding to hire more people.
nintendoeverything.com

Masuda on why Game Freak doesn't expand and keeps team sizes relatively small

Compared to the some of the big developers out there, Game Freak is relatively small. Companies like Ubisoft, Activision, and EA have massive amounts of staffers working on their projects. Meanwhile, the core team at Game Freak has only around 180-200 people working on Pokemon Sword/Shield...

I'm bringing this up in the context of how much money the publisher would put up to spend on a project. Yeah, I suppose they could expand personally but the using of those resources will still relate to how much TPC would be willing to spend in relation to a new Pokémon product.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
Wait a minute...theres 300 team members on this game? And people are complaining.....

That's a large staff.

With all the complaining I thought gamefreak was like 100 to 150 staff and they refuse to grow.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,200
There is a reason why non sports annual games go between different studios each year. A large amount of Game Freak's staff wasn't able to focus on SwSh until after Let's Go was finished, and it shows.

Popping in to agree and to say that my reaction was "only?," not "wow, so many!" in regards to devs that worked on two simultaneously developed projects in the same franchise at the same time.

Go ask an environment artist at Ubisoft how many games they touch in a year. I'm actually really impressed that given the small-ish size of Game Freak as a studio (in terms of employed staff, not including development contractors,) how many developers were able to work on just one project considering they've shipped five projects in the last 18 months (Giga Wrecker Alt, Let's Go, Sword/Shield, Quest, and Little Town Hero.)
Ubisoft has a very different development structure.
Game Freak is a tiny studio working on annual HD releases, not a mega publisher with studios around the globe.
 

catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
lmao this thread is fucking wild. Of course a portion of gamefreak's staff worked on multiple projects over a portion of like 2-3 years or whatever. This means nothing. This could be true or false in almost any budget/team layout.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,200
so people saying this "Explains a lot"

when you are done with your projects in your work, once you are done you do nothing like for months until the next project comes around?

of fucking course there is overlap on the teams

wth does this explain at all?
Game Freak is a tiny studio doing yearly releases, one would hope they would be staffed well enough that a major game doesn't have to wait till its final year to get a massive chunk of its team.
Don't forget that they also are likely working on DP remakes at the same time. Ideally most of the Let's Go staff would have gone on to that right away, instead Game Freak's games are competing with each other for staff.
There is a reason franchises like CoD have different studios leading each year's game.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
Game Freak is a tiny studio doing yearly releases, one would hope they would be staffed well enough that a major game doesn't have to wait till its final year to get a massive chunk of its team.
Don't forget that they also are likely working on DP remakes at the same time. Ideally most of the Let's Go staff would have gone on to that right away, instead Game Freak's games are competing with each other for staff.
There is a reason franchises like CoD have different studios leading each year's game.

tiny? didnt over 700 people work on sword and shield?
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,341
so people saying this "Explains a lot"

when you are done with your projects in your work, once you are done you do nothing like for months until the next project comes around?

of fucking course there is overlap on the teams

wth does this explain at all?
It explains how armchair devs know nothing of game development
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,641
6 years for a gen feels more like it. I mean that's when we get mainline 3D Mario and Zelda games (it was closer between 3D World and Odyssey but still), but the same between Skyward Sword and BOTW (2011 to 2017).
Since EAD Tokyo was a thing, 3D Marios have come out at a far quicker cadence (Galaxy - 2007, Galaxy 2 - 2010, 3D Land - 2011, 3D World - 2013, Odyssey - 2017), and Zelda's been an annualized product for years now.

I agree that Game Freak needs to slow down, and a return to a four-year generation cycle doesn't sound unreasonable, but 6 years is lunacy. That's long enough for kids to age into and out of the target age range of the series, breaking the constant churn which has made it a success for over two decades. Frankly four years seems a little long to me (we only really had that with Gen III and IV, and the first of those was because of a big delay to Diamond and Pearl).

I mean, for goodness' sake, the schedule you propose has a span of four years where the only core RPG release is a third version. That's crazy.
 
Last edited:

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,200
Since EAD Tokyo was a thing, 3D Marios have come out at a far quicker cadence (Galaxy - 2007, Galaxy 2 - 2010, 3D Land - 2011, 3D World - 2013, Odyssey - 2017), and Zelda's been an annualized product for years now.

I agree that Game Freak needs to slow down, and a return to a four-year generation cycle doesn't sound unreasonable, but 6 years is lunacy. That's long enough for kids to age into and out of the target age range of the series, breaking the constant churn which has made it a success for over two decades. Frankly four years seems a little long to me (we only really had that with Gen III and IV, and the first of those was because of a big delay to Diamond and Pearl).
Ultimately 3 years is fine, they just need 2 300 person internal teams working on games simultaneously and outsource most of the work on sequels/third versions and Let's Go games. Hell, Let's Go games seem like perfect candidates to just give to another studio.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Not surprising. And I'm not gonna say it has TOO much of an impct because we have no idea if this staff is also in marketing and QA or what not. Now if this 1/3rd of staff is strictly from gamefreak internally who make the bulk of the games, then yeah the annualization has fucked em big time.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,200
It explains how armchair devs know nothing of game development
Not really, it's pretty misguided to compare Game Freak development to Ubisoft. Game Freak is an independent studio, not a publisher with studios all around the globe and thousands of employees. The reason Ubisoft employees work on so many games in a short period of time is because Ubisoft has a fuck load of employees and they have gargantuan staff lists for games, this is not the case for Pokemon. Game Freak is a pretty small studio for HD games, and tiny for HD annual releases + all the other little projects they do.
Call of Duty has 3 distinct studios making games in a rotation and then multiple other studios supporting those games, this is pretty much the model Game Freak should try to follow, though with it being internal teams instead of 3 separate main studios.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,319
Wow Pokemon discussion is poisoned.

Now everyone is talking past each other and missing points.

Love the game but I think almost everyone is left wondering how much better it could have turned out if GF didn't work on Let's Go and had full staff and an extra year
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,341
Wow Pokemon discussion is poisoned.

Now everyone is talking past each other and missing points.

Love the game but I think almost everyone is left wondering how much better it could have turned out if GF didn't work on Let's Go and had full staff and an extra year
Well apparently they only added overworld Pokémon to SWSH because of the overwhelmingly positive reception of the feature in Let's Go, so the game would have been worse without it :p
 

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,613
Add me on the "give gf more time" boat. Maybe let someone like monolithsoft help with technical stuff since that is not gf's strong suit.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,319
Well apparently they only added overworld Pokémon to SWSH because of the overwhelmingly positive reception of the feature in Let's Go, so the game would have been worse without it :p

Only reason I dont really believe that is because all the routes are extremely basic....

They clearly designed the game around the Wild Area and I highly doubt they envisioned it without roaming mons.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,341
Only reason I dont really believe that is because all the routes are extremely basic....

They clearly designed the game around the Wild Area and I highly doubt they envisioned it without roaming mons.
Well they said so in interviews, but yeah the wild area without them would have been weird, unless it was originally restricted to it? But then they could have said so
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
Yep, called it. By not committing more resources and more time to these games they are doing both their fans and their employees a massive disservice.
 

Hampig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,704
This could mean nothing, we don't know how their teams work internally and we don't know what their credit on this game means. It would be nice if things were as black and white as headlines like this lead us to believe, but they're just not.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
I would like
2020: Giga Sword & Shield
2022: Diamond Pearl Remakes
2024: Gen 9

it can be as spaced out as that. I don't need a new gen every couple of years. Take your flipping time.