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VGC: “Since Sticker Star, it’s no longer possible to modify Mario characters or to create original characters" - Interview with Paper Mario developers

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From VideoGamesChronicle we get more details about the soon-to-be-released Paper Mario:

Risa Tabata: "Games are entertainment, so I want the people who play our games to say 'Wow!' My understanding is that if we want to give players these positive surprises, we can't do exactly the same thing that's been done before."
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The concept for the latest Paper Mario game was born from this process of challenging the development team to try something new, Tabata explains.
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"Nintendo's philosophy on game creation is that we don't ignore casual players in creating our games," he says. "This is also true for games such as those in the Metroid Prime series; games that at first glance look like they are only aimed at core gamers."
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Tanabe: Since Paper Mario: Sticker Star, it's no longer possible to modify Mario characters or to create original characters that touch on the Mario universe. That means that if we aren't using Mario characters for bosses, we need to create original characters with designs that don't involve the Mario universe at all, like we've done with Olly and the stationery bosses.

Whether a character becomes an all-time hit or not isn't up to us on the development side; I think it's more the case that characters that fans truly accept naturally end up that way. I hope that the origami siblings in Paper Mario: The Origami King will stay in players' memories, even if they do only end up appearing in this title.
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Please check out more interesting details in the development and behind the scenes in the interview at VideoGamesChronicle:
www.videogameschronicle.com

Interview: Paper Mario’s development team lays it all out | VGC

Nintendo and Intelligent Systems discuss the making of The Origami King and the challenge of reinventing the series.
www.videogameschronicle.com www.videogameschronicle.com
 
The Unsent

The Unsent

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Oct 25, 2017
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"But the old games were 16 years old, move on"/trying to shut down criticism.

Seriously, what a shame.
 
ClickyCal'

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Huge shame considering it was one of the best aspects of the first two games. Oh well, I'm over the series at this point anyway.
 
Joqu

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These restrictions don't appear to apply to Nintendo's in-house 3D Mario games, Odyssey's direction got me quite hopeful that we'd see changes in Paper Mario too, even if they didn't happen yet in ToK. Luigi's Mansion 3 went in a promising direction too, Nintendo should really loosen this stuff for Paper Mario but I guess they won't because it has Mario in the name? It wasn't an issue in the past though, it's stupid.

I like CS so going by the reviews I'm sure I'll like ToK too, but I can't help but feel like this stuff is holding the games back, to a frustrating degree. At least now we know it's official...
 
Zemst

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Yeah this was stated in a past interview too, in a way more painful way. Shame they decided to go with an iron grip rather than see what made people fall in love with the game.
 

Deleted member 9584

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Nintendo doesn't even let first party developed games mess around with the Mario formula? How is it that Ubisoft had more freedom with the Mario IP (donkey Kong rabbid etc) than the Paper Mario team? Ridiculous.
 
_zoipi

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I understand the protectiveness. But it's a pin off based on having different spins on a basic minion character.

I loved paper Mario's Lady Bow because she was a supersassy Boo, not because she was a Boo.
 
Weiss

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It's extra weird since Odyssey went all in on creating new characters and aspects for Mario's world, and that was the best Mario has been in like 30 years.

What's the point of a spinoff that's the same experience as a mainline game?
 
jdh96

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And this interview is exactly why they should just give the series to someone else at this point.
 
OP
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It's pretty interesting the detail about Super Paper Mario's story:
Tanabe: In Super Paper Mario, the elaborate story led the game away from the Mario universe, so since Paper Mario: Sticker Star I've refrained from using stories that are too complicated. Personally, though, I like games with stories. (...) in Paper Mario: Color Splash, I avoided having a complicated story so as not to veer too far away from the Mario universe, and instead aimed for a game with more memorable events. To create even more memorable experiences for players, in Paper Mario: The Origami King we've established some characters other than the partner character who will also journey with players through the game. In particular, I think that Bobby (Bob-omb) has turned out to be just as memorable a character as Olivia.
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Joqu

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It sounds like it's out of Tanabe's hands too. He clearly doesn't ignore feedback either, I guess Nintendo just doesn't see Intelligent Systems as being worthy of having a creative input on the world of their Mario games.

I can only hope people will continue to moan about it until Nintendo changes their stance on this, even if it might be annoying to people who're pleased by the current games. It's not just about XP.
 
Sho_Nuff82

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This sounds almost exactly like Disney's current "everything must be cannon" stipulation with all Star Wars media. It's unsustainable if you want to leverage an IP in multiple storytelling genres.
 
ned_ballad

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it's weird how inconsistent this policy seems to be

like it's hyper enforced on Paper Mario to the point of absurdity, but Luigi's Mansion and Rabbids can do whatever they want with the IP. Even Mario and Luigi seemed a bit more relaxed.

It's already been established that Paper Mario isn't in the same universe as the Mario series. It's a storybook in the "real" Mario world. So they should be able to do whatever they want, since it makes no changes to the "real" Mario world in any way.
 
Qikz

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This is so insane. IntSys are one of the best devs that work with Nintendo. What are Nintendo doing? wtf
 

Dark Cloud

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It's safer to post in here. The thing is Intelligent Systems is as close of a first party dev that a third party dev can be. To shutdown specific types of creativity is stupid from Nintendo
 
lexony

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Scrawnton said:
Nintendo doesn't even let first party developed games mess around with the Mario formula? How is it that Ubisoft had more freedom with the Mario IP (donkey Kong rabbid etc) than the Paper Mario team? Ridiculous.
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Read the full quote. He said they need to create new characters who have character designs that don't involve the Mario Universe. It sounds really weird, but I think it is ok for them as long these new original characters like Olly in Origami King are shown as not to be part of the Mario Universe. This would also apply to Mario and Rabbids. But it is a strange statement.
 
Wereroku

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This is really strange. Does it have something to do with character rights? Like how Nintendo can't use the SMRPG characters since Square technically own them? So they want to make sure they don't lose ownership of Mario Universe characters?

lexony said:
Read the full quote. He said they need to create new characters who have character designs that don't involve the Mario Universe. It sounds really weird, but I think it is ok for them as long these new original characters like Olly in Origami King are shown as not to be part of the Mario Universe. This would also apply to Mario and Rabbids. But it is a strange statement.
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It has to be an ownership thing right? Like if someone made a new toad design that became super popular.
 
Tuck

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What an absolute shame, and stupid considering Mario Odyssey had no problem shitting all over the established Mario asthetic with new donk city, and they did a fucking Rabbids crossover
 
Calamari41

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The opposite should be the case, tbh. Characters like Bobbery, Ms Mowz, the Pianta boss, etc, should be spread around in games like Mario Kart and Mario Party.

Though, it sounds like they could still be creating hit characters like Rawk Hawk, the X-nauts, or the Punies, right?
 
OP
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Joqu said:
These restrictions don't appear to apply to Nintendo's in-house 3D Mario games
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I guess there is some sort of approval chain for new characters in the Mario universe, easy to access to it when it's a new in-house 3D Mario because Miyamoto oversees completely those; but the developers at IS for this spin-off are too off-limit to reach that chain every single time they want a new original character, probably easier to send a sheet with "It's the Mario characters but origami" to get OK'ed.
 
JB2448

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SuperFakerBros

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That is such a pointless and needless restriction, especially when the same didn't or doesn't seem to apply for other Mario series, like the 3D Mario games, Mario and Luigi, and Mario Rabbids

Granted, it doesn't stop them from making completely new designs but it limits what they can do with current ones in a way that I'd perhaps expect for some small indie team, not a studio that's 1st party in all but name
 
Dymaxion

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Weiss said:
What's the point of a spinoff that's the same experience as a mainline game?
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Different gameplay and that's it. The tables have turned.

Now I'm more excited for the next internally developed 3D Mario game to come out because it's the only Mario franchise that can take risks with the IP in ways that I like. You win, Nintendo.
 
TheMoon

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Grunge_Hamster said:
From VideoGamesChronicle we get more details about the soon-to-be-released Paper Mario:









Please check out more interesting details in the development and behind the scenes in the interview at VideoGamesChronicle:
www.videogameschronicle.com

Interview: Paper Mario’s development team lays it all out | VGC

Nintendo and Intelligent Systems discuss the making of The Origami King and the challenge of reinventing the series.
www.videogameschronicle.com www.videogameschronicle.com
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
www.resetera.com

Tanabe: [Paper Mario] It’s no longer possible to modify Mario characters or to create original characters that touch on the Mario universe

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/paper-mario-origami-king/ So there we have it folks, official confirmation that Nintendo is mandating the Paper Mario games to no longer have original characters like the ones we saw in PM64/TTYD/SPM. What bullshit.
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
 
Please, go to the other thread; this is a duplicate
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    • ViperViking

    ViperViking

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    I definitely think it's important to note that he said that they can't modify Mario characters, which is a disappointing restriction set by Nintendo, but he also goes on to say that they can just create totally original characters. And what does it even mean to not be able to modify Mario characters? We've seen plenty of Mario characters in Origami King that have unique characteristics, but they still decided that there should be a bunch of generic toads spread around the world. That's just a bad game design choice.

    Joqu said:
    It's not just about XP.
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    Not just about XP, but it also is about XP. I think Origami King would be a game I could enjoy if a deep leveling system were in place.
     
    The Bear

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