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ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,546
For lovers
I love how Era gets on it's high horse about "emulation isn't piracy" when it's about the Switch, but I've gotten temp bans multiple times for discussing emulation as a solution to playing out of print retro games.

Like if you're going to love emulation, fine, but I'd appreciate not being banned for casual mentions of it, lmao.

I obviously don't know the posts you were banned for, but the line here has always been "if you're discussing emulation, you need to at least try in good faith to say that you own the copy of the game you're emulating and ripping it yourself".

I assume the out of print thing means that you were pirating it, which, yeah that's always been banworthy.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,002
UK
Oh I know, but is that a good premise for an article? Seem alarmists for alarmists sake.

I don't think any argument that conflates piracy with emulation is a good article lol, it just gives people the wrong idea about emulation and signal boosts that you can just steal these games if you really want to
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,182
I mean, haven't you guys seen thousands of posts of "can't wait to see it optimised on Ryujinx" or "I'm playing this on my Deck" or "did they fix Xenoblade 2 on Yuzu in the end?" and all that stuff?
The issue is that everyone can just say 'I bought this and ripped it legit, I'm just playing it elsewhere for better fidelity' and the discussion basically ends there. There's no stats afaik on how many people playing current gen things on emulators are doing so after having bought the software vs. just pirating it. Kind of why these discussions are a bit bland. They always end pretty much the same way. "emulation isn't piracy" "yeah but some of it is" "I guess but no way to tell how much 🤷"

I guess as long as the industry isn't collapsing then the amount of damage is negligible though.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,626
Canada
PSP and DS literally right there.
It also most likely impacted 3rd parties willingness to consider 3DS as a viable platform.
I said Emulation, not piracy. both the DS and PSP were top selling consoles, and to even consider the DS underperforming due to Emulation is wild considering how long it was before no$gba was even viable for playing DS titles.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,085
I love how Era gets on it's high horse about "emulation isn't piracy" when it's about the Switch, but I've gotten temp bans multiple times for discussing emulation as a solution to playing out of print retro games.

Like if you're going to love emulation, fine, but I'd appreciate not being banned for casual mentions of it, lmao.
It's the difference between playing games you own vs games you don't own, isn't it? One is emulation, one is emulation and piracy.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,002
UK
Oh God why are we even here then?

This is the section

Such is the case with Xenoblade Chronicles 3. This is a game with plenty of labyrinthine quests, heroes to unlock, a class system to navigate, and more. Over its opening week there was one notable staple to the search traffic around the game, however: piracy.

It's all anecdotal, of course, but as I tried to see where people were getting hung up on elements of Xenoblade 3's design, every other search query felt like it was about emulation. Or obtaining the game illegally. Or tweaking emulator settings. Or downloading new shaders to get the best possible appearance out of the game.

"Now, it's all anecdotal of course, but there are indeed lots of Hot Singles in my area that are desperate to talk to me"
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,598
User banned (3 days): Admitting to Piracy
I'm going to be real with you, games running like absolute fucking dogshit was a huge reason for getting rid of my switch. Emulating these games is the way to go. You get a better experience than you could ever get on the switch. Its a fucking no-brainer. I highly doubt piracy is eating into switch that much.

When your games drop to crt resolutions and 15 fps you got a damn problem and can't blame people for trying to fix it
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,950
Has any 3rd party complained about it? Because I doubt they'd all keep quiet if it was wide spread and they'd probably have some good data to back up their claim.
 
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Xwing

Xwing

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
9,873
I obviously don't know the posts you were banned for, but the line here has always been "if you're discussing emulation, you need to at least try in good faith to say that you own the copy of the game you're emulating and ripping it yourself".

I assume the out of print thing means that you were pirating it, which, yeah that's always been banworthy.

It's the difference between playing games you own vs games you don't own, isn't it? One is emulation, one is emulation and piracy.

Why is playing an out of print game on an emulator considered "piracy" if it is literally impossible to buy the game? Would it somehow be more ethical for a person to spend $300.00 on a secondhand SNES cartridge from Japan and then dump the rom themselves?

Where Era draws the line is completely fucking arbitrary.
 

empo

Member
Jan 27, 2018
3,102
I'm sure people are stealing the game, and those people suck, but a lot of people will own the game and just want to play it somewhere it will run better

It's another case of pretending emulation and piracy are the same thing, which they're not



It literally admits most of the evidence is anecdotal
based on nothing except what I pull from my ass it feels naive to think that it is more than a small fraction that spend like $300+ on a dumping device to play their legitimate games somewhere else

like what happened to "make a good and cheap store and people will buy your games instead of pirating"?

but I also don't really give a shit, so whatever lols

I'm going to be real with you, games running like absolute fucking dogshit was a huge reason for getting rid of my switch. Emulating these games is the way to go. You get a better experience than you could ever get on the switch. Its a fucking no-brainer. I highly doubt piracy is eating into switch that much.

When your games drop to crt resolutions and 15 fps you got a damn problem and can't blame people for trying to fix it
so how are you getting your legitimate dumps?
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,182
Why is playing an out of print game on an emulator considered "piracy" if it is literally impossible to buy the game? Would it somehow be more ethical for a person to spend $300.00 on a secondhand SNES cartridge from Japan and then dump the rom themselves?

Where Era draws the line is completely fucking arbitrary.
It's not arbitrary, just in one scenario you literally have to admit to piracy where in other scenarios there is plausible deniability (or just a real situation) because you can claim you ripped the game yourself.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,890
I'm going to be real with you, games running like absolute fucking dogshit was a huge reason for getting rid of my switch. Emulating these games is the way to go. You get a better experience than you could ever get on the switch. Its a fucking no-brainer. I highly doubt piracy is eating into switch that much.

When your games drop to crt resolutions and 15 fps you got a damn problem and can't blame people for trying to fix it
Right here officer
 
Mar 8, 2018
1,161
It's not arbitrary, just in one scenario you literally have to admit to piracy where in other scenarios there is plausible deniability because you can claim you ripped the game yourself.
This is a very silly fiction, because everyone knows that no one is doing the latter (at least with respect to obscure or expensive old games). We all just tacitly agree to look the other way. I mean, just look at the "Retro Handhelds are neat" thread. We honestly believe that people are filling those handhelds with ripped ROMs from their personal collections?
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,151
It's all anecdotal, of course, but as I tried to see where people were getting hung up on elements of Xenoblade 3's design, every other search query felt like it was about emulation. Or obtaining the game illegally. Or tweaking emulator settings. Or downloading new shaders to get the best possible appearance out of the game.

Writing an article based on the replies to a viral tweet is worse but doing it based on the vibes of search trends is not much better.
 

Yeona

Banned
Jan 19, 2021
2,065
User Warned: Inflammatory Point of Comparison
dumb article. emulation is not piracy.

It is astonishingly naive to decouple emulation from piracy.

Era can try to pretend otherwise all they want, but emulation is not and will never be piracy. Ripping your own purchased content for your own enjoyment in a better state is not piracy.

The emulation scene of the 3DS and Switch were mature from week one and both consoles managed just fine. Don't worry the evil pirates are not going to kill the switch.

This is literally gun control debate, only about videogames. "Does emulation hurt or IS IT THE PERSON BEHIND IT", I mean come on.

Emulation is literally the fastest and most efficient way to enable piracy. You can defend all of its fair uses -- and as someone who uses emulation myself for older consoles like the GBA, I do think there's a lot of innocuous ways to use emulation -- but to even remotely deny that the vast majority by a huge margin of people who use emulators aren't exactly playing copies of games they own themselves, is just ridiculous.

It's impossible to have a serious conversation about that until people (primarily emulation enthusiasts or emulator users themselves -- go figure eh?) come to terms with the basic facts of reality.

And while we grapple with that, publishers will keep making studios user harsher and harsher forms of DRM because they've realized by now asking us nicely isn't gonna cut it.

What consoles have been decimated by piracy? As far as I know, the current sold models of both Switch and Switch Lite cannot be hacked. And the models that can be hacked can be through a complicated process.

It's easy to stop piracy: have a better user experience, and have a better product.

This works for small transactions, not consoles. This is the Steam excuse. Steam became popular because of sales, and because of very small prices comparatively. If Steam cost 300 bucks, you bet it wouldn't have turned the PC gaming market around lmao.

Also to respond to the question more directly: The Vita had such a hilariously poor third party support because a lot of PSP's third party developers quickly realized how much their games were being pirated especially in the west, to such an extent where even just porting them would be a massive loss, so they abandoned the hardware entirely and moved to another platform. To this day there is no western release of games like Monster Hunter Portable 3rd or its HD PS3 port, despite it being the fourth best selling game in the entire franchise (and especially considering it only came out in Japan and Korea).

The Dreamcast was also notoriously easy to pirate to such a pathetic extent that it basically didn't even require any additional hardware or software and I have never in my entire life met anyone who had a Dreamcast collection of legal games that's bigger than the huge CD folder filled with burned CDs. I know people like to say that it was Shenmue's development that nearly fucked SEGA over, but anyone with a hint of reason can say it likely cost SEGA far more money to research, develop and manufacture Dreamcasts than the 70 million they paid to make Shenmue.

Piracy fucked the Dreamcast, not Shenmue.
 
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Xwing

Xwing

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
9,873
It's not arbitrary, just in one scenario you literally have to admit to piracy where in other scenarios there is plausible deniability (or just a real situation) because you can claim you ripped the game yourself.

Fine then, if people want to make emulation threads about Switch on Era, they should have to upload a video of them dumping their cartridge. Shouldn't be a problem right?
 

cvbas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,164
Brazil
All I will say is that I deeply regret purchasing Xenoblade 3 because it looks so much worse than I had anticipated, to the point where I can't really play it on a 4K TV without actually straining my eyes.

No wonder people will want to play it at a decent resolution, but you also need to be extremely naive (and frankly pretty financially privileged) to truly believe most people are legally dumping their games. Though that's a discussion I rather not get into.

Eb8YoSYUwAAeugO.jpg
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,002
UK
Why is playing an out of print game on an emulator considered "piracy" if it is literally impossible to buy the game? Would it somehow be more ethical for a person to spend $300.00 on a secondhand SNES cartridge from Japan and then dump the rom themselves?

Where Era draws the line is completely fucking arbitrary.

It's piracy because you don't have any legal right to own/play the game

Is it unethical? That's more of a grey area

I'd say it's 100% wrong to steal Xeno 3, or any modern game still being sold on a storefront, but if someone downloads an out of print game you can't buy anywhere legally, it's hard to get too upset about that, even if I still wouldn't endorse that
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,312
It's bullshit clickbait. You can do the searches for yourself right now, go ahead and try and do some searches for terms involving people getting stuck in the game or having trouble with it's designs. Tell me if all of your searches are flooded with threads about emulator settings. "It's all anecdotal", uh huh sure thing.

They got what they wanted. It sparked the usual debate in places like this and we all talked about their article.

Anyway, Nintendo should probably make a console strong enough to properly run the kinds of games it's developers want to make sometime in the future.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,182
Fine then, if people want to make emulation threads about Switch on Era, they should have to upload a video of them dumping their cartridge. Shouldn't be a problem right?
This is why I said earlier that these discussions always go nowhere, because what you're asking about will never happen (honestly, thankfully, since that would be absurd) so the convo basically ends at 'yeah I ripped it myself'.

We can all just admit some amount of piracy exists, a lot of emulation is NOT piracy, and companies don't appear to be losing an insane amount of money on it. Asking for video proof of timestamps of the process of people ripping individual games or whatever just so they can most 4k Switch screenshots is pointless.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,100
Why is playing an out of print game on an emulator considered "piracy" if it is literally impossible to buy the game? Would it somehow be more ethical for a person to spend $300.00 on a secondhand SNES cartridge from Japan and then dump the rom themselves?

Where Era draws the line is completely fucking arbitrary.

its technically considered "piracy" by legal standards, I can understand why say, moderators on a forum need to have a more cut and dry stance on it, but should anyone actually give a shit in a scenario like that? Seems like getting mad at someone for jaywalking tbh.
 

Edward

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
5,100
I switched no pun intended from Switch to PC after spending $60 on Hyrule Warriors and it running like a goddamn viewmaster slide show and Xenoblade 3 physically hurt my eyes trying to play that game on my monitor and TV. I have absolutely no qualms emulating games that i or anyone else paid for.

Emulation of course breeds outright piracy and we could debate on the morality of that until the end of the time and my personal stance is i will never download and pirate games i don't own and leave it at that. Emulation by nature IMO isn't bad, it's like homebrewing. There are a lot of bad eggs but at the end of the day people should be allowed to do whatever they want with the stuff they own.
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
This is literally gun control debate, only about videogames. "Does emulation hurt or IS IT THE PERSON BEHIND IT", I mean come on.

Emulation is literally the fastest and most efficient way to enable piracy. You can defend all of its fair uses -- and as someone who uses emulation myself for older consoles like the GBA, I do think there's a lot of innocuous ways to use emulation -- but to even remotely deny that the vast majority by a huge margin of people who use emulators aren't exactly playing copies of games they own themselves, is just ridiculous.

What a horrible comparison.
Guns are actually meant to kill people.
Emulation is meant to make games playable on other platforms. Enabling piracy is a mere sideeffect.
And condemning emulation and the free use of legally bought soft- and hardware because it *might* lead someone to piracy is childish at best.
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,598
Give me a break guys, I don't have this one and won't. I couldn't even get halfway through xeno 2. I backed up fire emblem, xeno 2 in case I changed my mind some day and zelda then got rid of that junk. I've no interest in Nintendo anymore.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,362
It's impossible to have a serious conversation about that until people (primarily emulation enthusiasts or emulator users themselves -- go figure eh?) come to terms with the basic facts of reality.

Ah, sorry, we're the ones that need to grasp reality, not the people intentionally muddling the waters between emulation and piracy every time (your gun control analogy is asinine and the dumbest thing ive read on this forum - the only purpose and end result of a gun is its negative, emulation has a lot of positives that the companies themselves use and one negative use that people explore on their own) and maintaining to this day the ludicrous idea that every pirated copy was a lost sale. Here, a mirror for you.
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,312
This is literally gun control debate, only about videogames. "Does emulation hurt or IS IT THE PERSON BEHIND IT", I mean come on.

I'm glad that it didn't take long after I got yelled at in a thread for jokingly warning/referencing that Era tends to not like discussion about Switch emulation for us to get a thread where someone unironically compares it to FUCKING GUNS AND MASS SHOOTINGS.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,570
If anything, I hope it means less 2nd/3rd party Switch-only exclusives. I'd love to buy XCX/XC2/XC3 and Live-A-Live on Steam.

I'd love for Ninty to get smart like Sony and starting dropping PC releases but Switch prints much money
....why do people keep thinking xenoblade isnt 1st party. Its a bonafide nintendo franchise. Heck Nintendo owns more of kt than they do kirby, fire emblem or pokemon
 
Sep 29, 2019
1,488
There really is a number of things that could've caused this, doesn't necessarily mean the game is being pirated to hell. Mind you, there was something like a 2-week time frame where the game had leaked early and gaming outlets caught up on it. Of course that would drive a lot of attention and cause people to search it up. The other titles mentioned there, Arceus and Metroid Dread had similar fates.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,199
That's a damn shame, I wonder if there is a market for some kind of hardware that is built with higher specs or something that could play all the Switch games but at a modern resolution for TVs with acceptable or even enhanced performance. I guess we'll never know

I'm seriousness, I can understand the logic here. "I want to play Switch my games at acceptable perf"... "hmm I could rip my games and emulate on PC" .... "hmm do I even need the Switch if I can just find and download copies of the games I already own?" ... "heck, all of the games are here, might as well just grab all of the ones i want."
 

logash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,706
Xenoblade is selling better than ever right? Seems like it's just manufactured concern.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,477
This works for small transactions, not consoles. This is the Steam excuse. Steam became popular because of sales, and because of very small prices comparatively. If Steam cost 300 bucks, you bet it wouldn't have turned the PC gaming market around lmao.

I paid much more than $300 for literally only using Steam because to me it's the best gaming platform. Piracy doesn't even enter my mind because of how good it is.

And I grew up in Brazil, where I didn't saw a original game until the PS3 gen

Xenoblade is selling better than ever right? Seems like it's just manufactured concern.

Yep...
 

Exposure

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,654
I generally think concerns about emulation enabled piracy are overblown because even "good enough" emulation of systems like the Switch still requires a pretty good machine, which naturally limits how widespread it can be compared to being able to play pirated copies on an actual console ala the PSP or DS, much less the whole seperate argument about how piracy works and what not.

I do think we can acknowledge that at the very least there's definitely a decent chunk of people who are pirating because I've seen all the guides for how to dump your own copy of the game for various systems, I will straight up tell you there's not that many people actually doing that even if they actually do own the game and in theory have the setup required to do so. In fact I'm willing to bet there's a serious chunk of people in that category who instead opt to just download an already dumped copy on the internet because it's just way, way faster than going through a guide and potentially having to acquire peripherals for it.

fake edit:

ok whoever compared to emulation to having a lack of gun control as I was typing this post wins the crown for the worst take I've seen today.
 

Yesterday

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,285
User Banned (3 Days): Advocating Piracy
I dont really care if people pirate and I pirate myself for retro stuff but I find a lot of posters here to be overly sanctimonious about how obviously they rip their own cart for every game like its the norm and its totally not a problem that huge swaths of the internet are playing a big release a week early and casually spoiling things.

Emulation is meant to make games playable on other platforms. Enabling piracy is a mere sideeffect.
And condemning emulation and the free use of legally bought soft- and hardware because it *might* lead someone to piracy is childish at best.
lmao come off it, no one with a shred of common sense believes that the primary users of emulators are by people using legit copies they ripped themselves
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,820
To convert your own cartridges into roms do you need to have never updated the switch or will any launch model work?
 

Grimmjow

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,543
This is literally gun control debate, only about videogames. "Does emulation hurt or IS IT THE PERSON BEHIND IT", I mean come on.

Emulation is literally the fastest and most efficient way to enable piracy. You can defend all of its fair uses -- and as someone who uses emulation myself for older consoles like the GBA, I do think there's a lot of innocuous ways to use emulation -- but to even remotely deny that the vast majority by a huge margin of people who use emulators aren't exactly playing copies of games they own themselves, is just ridiculous.

It's impossible to have a serious conversation about that until people (primarily emulation enthusiasts or emulator users themselves -- go figure eh?) come to terms with the basic facts of reality.

And while we grapple with that, publishers will keep making studios user harsher and harsher forms of DRM because they've realized by now asking us nicely isn't gonna cut it.

Congrats! This is probably the dumbest shit I've read all day.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
Just to add a quote from the article-
It's all anecdotal, of course, but as I tried to see where people were getting hung up on elements of Xenoblade 3's design, every other search query felt like it was about emulation. Or obtaining the game illegally. Or tweaking emulator settings. Or downloading new shaders to get the best possible appearance out of the game.

It's all a bit vague. Why not state exactly how many search queries were about obtaining it illegally rather that just emulation? Otherwise the whole thing is 'anecdotally, gut feeling, maybe, thin end of the wedge' with nothing to actually back it up. Switch is 5 years old. I'm not surprised some people interested enough to rpgs to play them on day one are searching for ways for have better performance through emulation. I'm also not surprised that some queries are about blatant piracy with a flagship big release. But there's nothing concrete in this article, that does a lot to conflate emulation with piracy while also acknowledging that it isn't. Some talk about Steam Deck doesnt mean much of anything when there's so few of them out there and, for all the article talks about SEO etc, it does nothing to pinpoint how many queries were actually about piracy while waving the spectre of DS R4 cards around.

Maybe there's a story there, maybe there isn't, but it's a bit rich to talk about journalistic practice behind the curtain while ignoring the one thing they could have done to actually stand up their story.
 
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mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,756
I said Emulation, not piracy. both the DS and PSP were top selling consoles, and to even consider the DS underperforming due to Emulation is wild considering how long it was before no$gba was even viable for playing DS titles.
We have DS emulators as old as 2010 out there so let's not claim like it wasn't there at all.
DS didn't underperformed but DS software did
The biggest software out there like NSMB had minimal impact but the lesser software that no one would go to bat for like Soul Bubbles certain felt it.

What a horrible comparison.
Guns are actually meant to kill people.
Emulation is meant to make games playable on other platforms. Enabling piracy is a mere sideeffect.
And condemning emulation and the free use of legally bought soft- and hardware because it *might* lead someone to piracy is childish at best.
there's all type of emulation, some are used in commercial software.
No one bats an eye when Capcom, Square Enix or Konami use it to sell their back catalog.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,362
I'm glad that it didn't take long after I got yelled at in a thread for warning someone that Era tends to not like discussion about Switch emulation for us to get a thread where someone unironically compares it to FUCKING GUNS AND MASS SHOOTINGS.

Hey, mass shooters kill a bunch of people every now and then, but you know how many thousands suffer every hour due to pirates? Get some perspective, sheesh.

lmao come off it, no one with a shred of common sense believes that the primary users of emulators are by people using legit copies they ripped themselves

You can lmao all you want, that's still the primary function of any emulator. Which is why they don't come with system files or roms themselves.
 

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,811
Fine then, if people want to make emulation threads about Switch on Era, they should have to upload a video of them dumping their cartridge. Shouldn't be a problem right?

🤣

Dude relax, when it comes down to it, it's about personal responsibility. There isn't a doubt in my mind some of the people in this very thread that are like "piracy is the devil" is sitting on some contraband as we speak. But there isn't a need to antagonise people for the possibility of being a goon. Judge not lest ye be judged.

Just don't lock yourself in with your own words next time if you do practice such tendencies is all.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,362
No, they don't come with system files or ROMS because they don't want to be slapped with a copyright lawsuit and need to maintain legitimacy.

So they're legitimate in order to maintain legitimacy, but i'm still going to say its just because they can't get away with it because i pulled that from my ass. Gotcha
 
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