This is true. And this is why I will not chose between Xbox Series X and PS5, I will have both.
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VG24/7: Developers making Xbox Series X games will learn to address PS5’s SSD advantage, says ex-Xbox lead
- Thread starter chris 1515
- Start date
This is true. And this is why I will not chose between Xbox Series X and PS5, I will have both.
There won't be gameplay changes and this guy sounds like a clown with that elevator analogy. If a third party developer is making a game that they plan to release on PC, then that's what will be in mind when they develop it. Since most third party games are released on PC, you shouldn't expect to see anything more than faster load times.
To be fair it's not the SSD it's the IO and that's something PCs don't have at all, that's why their SSD speeds never hit what's promised unlike what's promised with the ps5 and series X.
This is sad and embarrassing and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
So your saying that secretly Microsoft have got an IO system as good as Sony. Everything the developers have been saying so far, all the presentation's and praise its had for its IO has been lying and Microsoft is secretly been doing all the below with specialised hardware as well? Cerny literally says in his presentation that the data cannot be used immediately when its in memory, are you an expert do you know better than Cerny?
I didn't say that anyone was lying. I'm just saying that we haven't had an SSD presentation from Microsoft detailing what features it has. I'm a computer engineer with many years of experience working on microprocessors.
It's likely that Cerny was talking about decompression. You can't use data that hasn't been decompressed yet, and a PC (or a current gen console) would need to use the CPU to decompress data after it was transferred from disk to memory. But we already know that both consoles have hardware decompression engines. Cerny was comparing the PS5 to current generation and PCs, not to the Xbox Series X.
Again, the absence of a similar presentation by Microsoft isn't evidence that the XSX doesn't have similar features.
Not even. Games will be designed around a HDD because publishers will not want to leave behind millions of potential customers on PC for several years at least.
How about developers stating PS5's I/O is leaps above anything currently available, including the XSX?
As an engineer, I would love to see a "leap" spreadsheet and graphs, please. :-)
No doubt it is faster, for sure.
We have had differences all the time why would it change now? X box one x runs games at higher res, load faster and look better and that's third party now all of a sudden that will stop for both?👀
No one is denying that PS5 drive is the fastest out there.
The problem is when ppl claim the difference between that and PC/XSX is so groundbreaking and such a game changer, that games will need to be changed and adapted to run on those platforms, producing 2 different versions of the game, as it was the case in the PS2/Xbox era.
Ah yes, snark, the tool of choice for useful conversation.
You're just being disingenuous or a troll at this point, our very own Matt said the PS5's I/O was far ahead of XSX, Sweeney talks about how insanely special it is compared to everything else on the market, and the best you have is snark.
The guy right above you, ShapeGSX, was literally just arguing the XSX may have the exact same custom hardware purely because MS hasn't said they don't.
Good luck smacking xboxes together to make fire while I'm riding the playstation pyramid to alpha centauri, you'll see! You'll all see! I'll have my new alien friend Ozmodiar send you a holocard through the intergalactic playstation network!
I think I'll be starting next gen with a series X but will likely eventually get a PS5 as well. I'm excited to see how PS5 utilizes its unique strengths for exclusives, and same goes for xbox.
It doesn't really matter the exact numbers are not exactly pertinent, its like the teraflops argument, its complicated and things don't exactly equate to the raw numbers. I think the max speed for PS5 is quoted as 9gbs and Microsoft's is 5.5gbs compressed. Cerny already explained that the raw bandwidth of say a 100 time faster hard drive doesn't equate to 100 times faster load times because of the IO issues. Everyone seems to think the raw bandwidth numbers somehow means that the Xbox Series X would only be half as slow as the PS5. Which if true would mean that all that work that Sony put into the special IO was for nothing, because Microsoft made something just as good with much less specialised hardware and less time and effort(it would seem). I haven't seen anything from Microsoft to say that they have the specialised hardware for Check in and Load Management for instance. Cerny explained they have specialised hardware to do all those things in the image that I posted. If PS5 was 1 second load times and Xbox was 2 or 3 seconds then I don't see how developers would be praising the PS5 IO so highly.
I guess we'll see though, but I'm betting the Xboxs load times will be noticeably higher and not really close to half the speed of PS5.
This is all just marketing anyway.
If you're seriously worried your favorite console brand is going extinct because the numbers are higher on the other console, maybe stop.
If you're seriously worried your favorite console brand is going extinct because the numbers are higher on the other console, maybe stop.
If PS5 IO advantage is as marginal as some people think then Sony made a big mistake focusing so much on custom hardware etc.
Having similar hardware is different from having the same speed/performance.
He's not wrong, we don't all details about what's inside XSX solution yet, we know some details are similar to PS5, and some are apparently handled by the software.
Which doesn't change the fact that Sony took it to the extreme and everything is as streamlined as possible, making it faster than Microsoft solution.
How much it'll matter in the pratical case, is yet to be seen.
None of those things can "close the gap". VRS has nothing to do with storage speed, and everything else is just a slower version of what the PS5 is doing.
SFS isn't a solution to anything. It's better described as a graceful failure state.
It's going to make it harder to pick between versions. Could imagine stuff like that one has better frame rate while the other has better drawdistance.
While the peak theoretical numbers are higher for SOny, unless you know exactly what MS has in Series X and how much Velocity changes up things, this seems like a stretch.
OK, so are we at secret second GPU again then? Even though Microsoft had a technical deep dive where they even went so far as to talk about API's in addition to hardware, they just happened to leave out details on an additional 3 or so processors and SRAM that would match what the PS5 has for some reason. And they decided not to mention it in the whole time since then even though it would be a quick and easy win for them to say "Hey we have that too!"
That seems likely.
Sony spent their money on the I/O, Microsoft spent it on the GPU. It's really not that hard to figure out.
Velocity is literally just the decompression chip and API's, it's not magic.
Stop putting words in my mouth and take it down a notch, jeez. What is with you guys? "Literally," I was not arguing that the XSX may have the same exact hardware. Nowhere did I say this. If I'm wrong, please post the quote.
I'm absolutely certain that the Sony SSD is faster, and that is likely the "leap" that the devs have been talking about. But I prefer data and results to "feelings" about these sorts of things, as people are prone to hyperbole.
I expect that Microsoft hasn't implemented all of the features that Sony has, for sure. But the biggest feature is the hardware decompression, and we know that both consoles have it. I'd be really surprised if both consoles didn't have DMA, as it is a standard feature these days (even my Amiga had DMA). After that, you start getting into features that are very nice to have, like additional priority levels (over the standard ones), but will not have as much of an impact on performance. After all, if you upgrade your PS5's SSD with an NVMe drive, you don't get those additional priority levels, but developers still need to guarantee that a game will run off of an NVMe drive.
Yeah who knows at this point. I vaguely remember someone from the Xbox team mentioning that they have a hardware based decompression system, so maybe that'll close the gap at bit? But no one will know until we can see it in action.
I'm taking the opposite position: I think Microsoft is being deliberately conservative with their SSD speed rating because they want to factor in I/O latency into their specs. I do think in practice it will be difficult to distinguish between the two outside of initial loads. It's the sort of thing that's going to be immediately obvious as well: if loading times for cross gen games is 2 secs for the PS5 version vs 4 seconds for the Series X version, then I think the I/O difference will wind up being a non-issue all gen.
At the end of the day, I suspect most third party devs will ensure that any asset the player sees in the next 10 seconds is in RAM, and call it a day.
Seems a little reductive but do you know how much of this decompression ship and API's have an effect on overall performance for the Series X, compared to PS5?
I disagree that decompression is the biggest deal, I think the two I/O coprocessors and DMA controller will be just as important ensuring data moves through the I/O pipeline efficiently, otherwise Sony could have easily done what Microsoft did and called it a day.
But yes, we will (hopefully) get some more information eventually into exactly what difference these individual pieces made.
I'm not trying to be reductive, but that is what they've marketed it as. It includes the decompression block, their SSD, SFS (which is an API that takes advantage of hardware that's native to multiple GPU's including RDNA2), and DirectStorage which is an I/O API that's better optimized for NVMe SSD's.
Not the same thing, they won't design a game to be seamless on PS5 but add an elevator for Xbox Series X I don't think.
Improving res or framerate on Xbox One X is just a minimal tweak compared to fundamentally altering entire levels or aspects of the game to be superior on PS5.
Whatever you're saying doesn't make any sense.
What secret GPU are you talking about? If anything ppl here talking about Sony SSD are celebrating it like that lol.
What we're saying is, while Sony went quite in depth with the SSD solution and detailed a lot of it, Microsoft didn't.
Which doesn't mean it doesn't have similar features, but simply that it didn't think they were important to detail at the time.
This doesn't meant Microsoft has a secret sauce. But that the speed they declared it achieves *is* what it is because of similar features to what Sony did.
Sony solution is just taken to the extreme.
Stop reading secret sauce claims everywhere please, on both sides.
This is a perfect example of what I was saying.
XSX has a DMA has well (in fact multiple of them). Every PC in the past 40 years or so had them as well.
I'm not sure why everyone is celebrating the DMA as the secret sauce that pushes Sony SSD over everything else.
Microsoft didn't talk about DMAs because they're not a special feature and it was pointless to mention them.
Sony did because they went through the entire I/O pipeline (something that Microsoft didn't) and they are part of it.
No mistakes were made. Even if the PS5's SSD wont be able to shine as much in third party titles, it will definitely get used to it's full potential in first party titles. Luckily for everyone Sony is known for it's stellar and many first party offerings.
Microsoft and Sony have honestly made consoles that are more alike than they are different with each having put their main focus in a different area and the difference in third party titles is going to be minor no matter which console you have.
Alot of people in this thread should take a step back because honestly they are too transparant in their attempts to downplay the box that they aren't pledging their allegiance to.
We know exactly their effect because MS has told us. It reduces CPU usage to 1/10th or one core and increases the read speed of compressed data to 5GB/s on average. That is directly comparable to the PS5's 9GB/s.
Come on, multiplats won't have a seemless world on one platform and elevators on the other platforms, it's disrespectful to think any dev would go that route. And XSX won't be the lowest speced platform for multiplats. I'm sure there will be differences but I fully expect to not see them without the help of Digital Foundry.
No but VRS has to do with helping optimize for the best fps possible. Considering xsx has a much better gpu and cpu i dont see the ssd magically making up fps?
Just remember that nothing will close the gap in the areas that XSX is superior in.
Well, the difference in GPU power between PS5 and SX is also marginal. Yet Microsoft decided to focus on that.
There are differences. But the game on ERA is for platform warriors to imagine a dramatic improvement between the two that'll make the other visually notably inferior.
I think it was more of a "closest comparison" sort of thing, because there's not really ever been more visible example to cover less than 10 seconds of loading, than elevator rides and squeezing through gaps.
Developers seem to think otherwise. Many of us have come to terms that the APU component gap between the two consoles is like 15-18%, thus not too large of an advantage there. PS5 on the other hand has an SSD and custom I/O optimisations that put it at a 129% advantage, which may not be as drastic a measure than on paper, but I mean come on.
It doesn't have a "much better" GPU and CPU.
It really wasn't a good choice, but I don't think he was serious. He said making stuff up beforehand.
He isn't console warrior, but if anyone expects major differences in third party games then I don't know what to tell you. You won't be getting elevators in PC/Xbox ports and no elevator in PS5 version. That's hilarious to even entertain the idea.
XSX has a slightly better GPU. PS5 has a much better SSD. It's likely PS5 has VRS as well, so that's not an advantage in any case.
This is far from a given due to the complexities of how clock speed will interact with real game code. In a number of ways the PS5 GPU is faster, while the XSX GPU is faster at others.
This is insanely exciting to hear.
Just like some experienced game developers said, TF doesn't mean a shit when it comes to the overall console architecture.
When it comes to the XOne and PS4, both used quiet similar architectures, so when boosting comparison in the same environment it seems reasonable.
But for the next gen, Sony managed to compete with less GPU power and more balanced architecture in the overall console.
I'm pretty sure Microsoft will boost much more resolution with its GPU, but the overall quality of assets and loading could be much more impressive on PS4.
And after a whole generation counting pixels with Digital Foundry.... we are going to see that pixels are not the main question anymore.
Sony did an amazing job with checkerboard rendering, and I'm pretty sure they keep evolving from that to output higher resolutions to compete against the powerful GPU from Series X. But everything else seems like the true "secret sauce" that we never get it last generation.
(Not saying that the Xbox is worse, by no means! But we are finally passed that stupidity of just counting pixels in comparisons).
Just like some experienced game developers said, TF doesn't mean a shit when it comes to the overall console architecture.
When it comes to the XOne and PS4, both used quiet similar architectures, so when boosting comparison in the same environment it seems reasonable.
But for the next gen, Sony managed to compete with less GPU power and more balanced architecture in the overall console.
I'm pretty sure Microsoft will boost much more resolution with its GPU, but the overall quality of assets and loading could be much more impressive on PS4.
And after a whole generation counting pixels with Digital Foundry.... we are going to see that pixels are not the main question anymore.
Sony did an amazing job with checkerboard rendering, and I'm pretty sure they keep evolving from that to output higher resolutions to compete against the powerful GPU from Series X. But everything else seems like the true "secret sauce" that we never get it last generation.
(Not saying that the Xbox is worse, by no means! But we are finally passed that stupidity of just counting pixels in comparisons).
I highly doubt we will see any multi platform games crippled by the Series X SSD, it is still super fast and matches well with what most people will have in a high end PC over the next couple of years.
Next gen will be really good, the machines are both great and future for game technology is bright.
Next gen will be really good, the machines are both great and future for game technology is bright.
I mean they are just using the industry standard for SSD speeds, going from SSD to Ram, but as has been explained so many times before it doesn't mean its usable, there's lots of extra work to make it usable. Cerny made clear in his presentation as to why its not directly comparable, If it was directly comparable then that would mean Microsoft would have comparable load speeds as in 1 or 2 seconds behind the PS5, except Microsoft has not made any claims like that at all. You would think developers would be shouting about that, but they haven't, an extra couple of seconds is negligible so why wouldn't Microsoft devs at least be shouting about it "yeah our load times are 2 or 3 seconds longer its no big deal" but they arent. It seems likely that extra IO overhead that the Microsoft console has to deal is a bit more than negligible. The below video is probably a good example for roughly what to expect for the Xbox.
How can it take roughly 10 seconds if it has an SSD speed of 5GBS, is it loading 50GBS of data?
I get mad everytime someone criticizes ME 1 elevators
You had some banter between your crew sometimes, and most importantly, it kept you in the game
ME 2 and 3 sollution was "throw some loading screens with a bunch of gibberish"
In what world that would be better than keeping you in the game? Ugh
Anyway, I doubt that we will see elevators on the Series X
Its SSD may be slower than PS5's, but not so much that we would have elevators, I believe