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VG24/7: Developers making Xbox Series X games will learn to address PS5’s SSD advantage, says ex-Xbox lead
- Thread starter chris 1515
- Start date
Video game developers and engineers are extremely smart I have no doubt they'll figure out how to work around console quirks, they always have. We're getting Doom Eternal on Switch for crying out loud.
VRS saves compute (and other GPU resources - sampler resources, memory bandwidth etc), but it doesn't compensate for data that's not in memory. If you're memory bound - if the higher quality data isn't in memory - you can't draw/sample it.
This is already a thing on PC. For instance with Rainbow Six Siege the game waits until all players have loaded the game assets, but that time vary a lot.
We will probably see a minimum SSD speed specs for PC games as next-gen progresses (the design of games will require them). The time to enter a multiplayer game might vary, and games can approach it more like Battlefield where you don't have to wait for others to load in.
I don't think they will be all that different.
Either because they will find creative ways around technical deficiencies or they won't make full use of features if it means causing problems for other platforms.
The games that are really going to take advantage of the tech you won't be playing on other platforms anyway.
Either because they will find creative ways around technical deficiencies or they won't make full use of features if it means causing problems for other platforms.
The games that are really going to take advantage of the tech you won't be playing on other platforms anyway.
He says:
Alright cool, if it's something devs can work-around and adjust themselves with then I have faith in them. These machines are way different than the PS4 and Xbox one were as a baseline and I did not even expect them to have some cutting edge stuff (i.e. bespoke storage solutions).
As a consumer, you just don't want a large parity to make you feel like you got the "lesser" product. I think we should just let the games and their results speak for themselves and not just freak out about it for now. Because honestly right now, I can't imagine what tangible differences can exist as a consumer.
Alright cool, if it's something devs can work-around and adjust themselves with then I have faith in them. These machines are way different than the PS4 and Xbox one were as a baseline and I did not even expect them to have some cutting edge stuff (i.e. bespoke storage solutions).
As a consumer, you just don't want a large parity to make you feel like you got the "lesser" product. I think we should just let the games and their results speak for themselves and not just freak out about it for now. Because honestly right now, I can't imagine what tangible differences can exist as a consumer.
User Banned (3 days): Console wars
Well the TF debate has been decided. Some tried to defend PS5's power shifting mess for while, but have since move on to greener pastures. The SSD is the great hope, but also the great unknown.
The lowest common denominator on PC is still HDD / lower speed SATA SSD though, so unless you specifically rule out HDD / SATA SSD owner, if you just go for lowest common denominator it's just gonna be same as this gen :P
Dudes a manager. His example is terrible but the point that devs can just work around any hardware limitation is valid.
XSX has 13.5 GB of RAM available to games with SSD's speed with compression being just under 5 GB/s, so we're looking more at RAM being filled on XSX in roughly 3 seconds, and assuming a similar RAM set up on PS5 we're looking at 1-1.5 seconds there. At worst some games that really run the SSD hard might have a bit of pop-in or a second long stutter on XSX when completely changing the environment.
It's not though is it? or we'd be playing gta5 / rdr2 with the switch in mind.
There's been a couple of gens where two of the three consoles have been similar.
before that, there were big differences between games on platforms that had different power advantages.
Thank you someone that actually can see his comments in the context of the discussion being had and not OPs attempt at a console war thread.
Yes, the elevator ride is a joke, he surely isn't a game designer.
Yeah the TF difference wont really matter too much in the end, the power gap is pretty small in the end. But the huge SSD gap has really gotten people talking huh, especially after the Unreal Engine 5 demo.
Man people are running wild with this stuff. The majority of games you'll play (3rd party) will have minimal differences.
Pretty much.
Pretty much.
To be honest I think the more typical situation is you aim for the middle, scale up to the high end, and see what you can bodge to make it work on the low end. If developers actually targetted the lowest common denominator, games wouldn't consistently perform poorly on the base Xbox One.
And by memory bound you mean that the PS5's SSD removes the concern for memory restrictions?
Good that the director of moon studios is saying this nonsense in this very thread.
Well, any multiplatform game that also comes to PC will have this issue not because PS5 SSD is faster than XSX SSD, but cause PCs still are built with hard drives (not SSD) so those will always be the bottleneck. The XSX also having an SSD if anything will make even more developers think from the start how to best use SSD loading speeds to improve their games.
As for the PS5 vs XSX SSD speed difference, it probably will not be that much noticeable overall IMO. I feel like it may just end up being a minor (and I do mean minor) difference at best. Like if a game takes 1-2 seconds to load something such as a fast travel or faster draw distance textures on PS5, it may take 3-4 seconds on XSX, which after that extra 1-2 second wait, will be the same experience. After seeing the loading of Outer Worlds on Switch taking 50+ seconds to load the map, I will survive any 1-2 second difference to load a texture/draw distance or something and look forward to both next gen systems.
As for the PS5 vs XSX SSD speed difference, it probably will not be that much noticeable overall IMO. I feel like it may just end up being a minor (and I do mean minor) difference at best. Like if a game takes 1-2 seconds to load something such as a fast travel or faster draw distance textures on PS5, it may take 3-4 seconds on XSX, which after that extra 1-2 second wait, will be the same experience. After seeing the loading of Outer Worlds on Switch taking 50+ seconds to load the map, I will survive any 1-2 second difference to load a texture/draw distance or something and look forward to both next gen systems.
Devs will actually go that far to add elevators to certain versions of the games but not others? I would think they would just put elevators in both versions and one will just have a shorter ride than the other
I am sure a game could be made seamlessly around 62.5 MB/s if it was designed in such a way.
Someone should tell these developers that they should have consulted with you before running their mouth off to Cerny and his equivalent at MS with their desired/required next gen specs in a console.
Talking out of my ass here (at least i have the honesty to say so on that case), but wouldn't PS5 need an elevator too if SX needs it ?
Let me explain it:
The premise here is that the PS5 version would require no loading (or more like, the loading would be near instant). The PS5 is loading 2.5 times faster than SX. Which means the SX would need 2.5 more times to load the scene. But that's the tricky part.
If it's "instantly" (well, more like near instantly), that'd means it'd be like under a second. If it was like 0.1 second, that'd mean 0.25 seconds on SX. How do you fit an elevator or something in such a short time.
In any case, the point of that dev is that when needed, tricks will be done to compensate the difference in time.
Now how will that translate is a complete different matter. But I highly doubt a 2.5 times difference makes you go from "instant" to "more than a second".
Let me explain it:
The premise here is that the PS5 version would require no loading (or more like, the loading would be near instant). The PS5 is loading 2.5 times faster than SX. Which means the SX would need 2.5 more times to load the scene. But that's the tricky part.
If it's "instantly" (well, more like near instantly), that'd means it'd be like under a second. If it was like 0.1 second, that'd mean 0.25 seconds on SX. How do you fit an elevator or something in such a short time.
In any case, the point of that dev is that when needed, tricks will be done to compensate the difference in time.
Now how will that translate is a complete different matter. But I highly doubt a 2.5 times difference makes you go from "instant" to "more than a second".
I'm interested to see just how noticeable the SSD advantage will be. Will it be a stark difference like 1080p vs 4k? Or will it be more difficult to differentiate while playing like 4k checkboard vs native 4k? Many people have mentioned that higher SSD speeds will allow higher quality assets to be loaded while the player moves at high speeds. How much of an impression will that leave on the player though? Usually the faster you're moving, the harder it is to notice fine detail. Will a high-res pigeon flying in the corner of your screen while you're swinging at 100+mph in Spiderman really make that much of a difference?
This is all very exciting to me. GPU Power matters, CPU power matters, SSD speed matters. Now all we are waiting on are the results. If I had to guess both will have very impressive results that differ. The big dividing factor will be the SSD speeds and how that changes developer decisions. The Xbox will almost certainly have higher frame rates and resolution but the PS5 could be a paradigm shift. The question is whether the PS5 SSD outclasses the XBSX SSD in a way that I the development pipeline is hampered to result less ambitious games on XBSX.
I'm not saying he isn't to be trusted, I'm just saying it's not an "official MS statement" lol.
Understandably as you know it's not like it's right before the bolded part... Oh wait.
Its call the Illusory Truth Effect.
The tendency to believe false information to be correct after repeated exposure.
They have the numbers to drive the narrative.
Right, MS do have a solution for this other problem on SFS. We'll need to see how well it works in practice though.
No, it is not an official statement.
And surely he doesn't understand game design, because bringing up an elevator ride specially designed just for one platform is a kinda dumb idea.
But i think he isn't paid by Mark Cerny and knows about the gains that the specialised IO of the PS5 brings.
Yea and it really doesn't matter how fast your theorical pc ssd speed is, when it's not close to actually reaching its potential. We need something like the ps5 storage architecture on pc.
You'd think the Xbox was shipping with a floppy drive or something the way people keep hyping up the PS5 's drive.
I mean that's what I think, developers are not going to change whole levels just for the PS5 that sounds like a crazy amount of work to me just for one console, and it might annoy gamers with the differences. Both games will have the lifts or the corridors and crawlspaces(they will be a shorter than last gen though), and PS5 will be idle and twiddling its thumbs in these moments.
The difference could perhaps be open world games though. Faster fast travel, and no stuttering or hiccups, less pop in when running around, less effort and work to get the PS5 running and optimised(although I think that could mean the PS5 runs worse in some ways as its ease of developing works against it as it means the developers can just half arse it and leave as is while they work more on optimising the more challenging Xbox or PC versions). Or maybe the developers will not like the differences in fast travel being instant on 1 console vs 10 seconds on the other so they artificially slow the PS5 for parity purposes? I can imagine Rockstar doing something like that, or many developers not allowing so much disparity between versions, so they keep the same pop in and problems of the base for the PS5 version.
Its disappointing but I don't see 3rd party taking advantage of PS5's IO and SSD at all.