You mean the guy who essentially beat the drum for marketing after the Cerny PS5 reveal? The one that associated a discless PS5 with lockheart and how Sony "beat them to the punch"? That guy?
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Verge: Lockhart has 7.5GB of usable RAM, the same CPU speed as Series X, about 4 teraflops of GPU performance. [Up: TW - Won't hold back Next-gen]
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
You mean the guy who essentially beat the drum for marketing after the Cerny PS5 reveal? The one that associated a discless PS5 with lockheart and how Sony "beat them to the punch"? That guy?
Gonna be a 1080p60 powerhouse. Games running at 1/4th the resolution but have 1/3rd of the gpu power and the same ssd. Nice. If they can hit $299 it'll be a knockout.
Yeah, using the Switch as an argument is not the best thing to do.
Especially because alot of times for the high profile games it's a port. And not all that great.
That's supposed to be different than what MS is supposed to be doing. So if we gonna use the Switch for comparisons, that means LH games will be ports?
Or games designed specifically for LH?
This is true.
Ok, now what's the minimum requirement for the game....because when I see PC get bought up in these topics, no one really talks about every PC game having a minimum requirement.
So, what's gonna be the minimum requirement for Xbox games?
I expect something slightly worst than a 5500XT, and VRS, mesh shaders and directML is going boost the performance even more.
You might want to calculate those again, though memory bandwidth isn't taken into account with those numbers.
If the XSX is pushing a 4K asset and the Lockhart is pushing a 1/4 quality version of the same asset, the Lockhart wouldnt need as much RAM to do the job within the same time constraints.
People always forget this. 80% of the PC gaming market has a PC with weaker specs than a PS4 Pro. Multiplatform games (especially in modern engines) are made to be scaled across a multitude of hardware configurations. There are also a multitude of tricks like dynamic resolution scaling that didn't exist just a few years ago.
Next gen games will run absolutely fine on Lockheart. MS hardware and software engineers aren't stupid.
Nintendo also understood that much of the computing power was spent simply to reach HD, with most people playing on a CRT TV. And that much of the public cared little or nothing for that. The reading is exactly the same.
Of course, there is a difference in relation to the number of third-party releases that any Nintendo platform receives, but the idea of a lower version of current games for those who care little is a Nintendo concept. It comes from the Wii and is on the Switch too.
And I think it is a very interesting strategy if well constructed. We've already seen that it works. Just don't see all this news that a lot of people preach.
Lol. Imagine comparing Lockhart to Switch specs.
BTW, for all the people looking at the raw TF number, 4TF of RDNA 2 is better than 6TF of GCN. Plus the cpu is way better than the jaguars in the One X (the biggest bottleneck).
Xbox Series X games are going to scale quite nicely to Lockhart.
More people like you should be posting on these threads.
Yeah
Yeah much better with the improvements through the architecture changes. I realize Lockhart will run games better than the One X overall.
I am speaking specifically about back compat Xbox One X enhanced titles. Do we know if it will run an unpatched game like RDR2 in 4K like it was on my One X.
If back compat mode doesn't require any extra resources to run, you would still need the 4TF RDNA to consistently hit a 1.5x performance improvement to reach 6TF of GCN. I don't know if that was the case with the current RDNA 1.0 cards.
Yeah much better with the improvements through the architecture changes. I realize Lockhart will run games better than the One X overall.
I am speaking specifically about back compat Xbox One X enhanced titles. Do we know if it will run an unpatched game like RDR2 in 4K like it was on my One X.
If back compat mode doesn't require any extra resources to run, you would still need the 4TF RDNA to consistently hit a 1.5x performance improvement to reach 6TF of GCN. I don't know if that was the case with the current RDNA 1.0 cards.
Won't MS and 3rd parties putting their games on PC potentially limit themselves more than Lockhart?
There's a lot of concern trolling and FUD in this thread regarding Lockhart "holding back" next gen, but let's not drag Jason's name through the mud. He's a fantastic journalist and one of, if not the best, in the gaming industry.
There's no catch all answer to this but the general rule of thumb is that it *should* be easier for this machine to hit a 1080p target than the Series X to hit a 4k target, and so I would be surprised if it had frame rate issues. Fidelity is obviously a game by game basis. There is some obvious concern about what if a game is only 1080p on the Series X, and for that, I have no actual answer. That's a possible situation for a game to be in, as its not mandated the games MUST be 4k on Series X. In that case, they would certainly need to butcher the game somewhat to work on the Series S.
But we are talking games VERY few and far between for that. I would imagine that games will be 1440p/1600p on PS5 and then 4k on Series X for the same title, and in that case, the Series S would happily play them at 1080p. If a multiplatform game hits 4k on PS5, it will easily hit 1080p on a Series S.
So those situations where it would have to go below 1080p should be very, very rare.
I'd think the difference is the hard drive, in which case next gen games should require an ssd.
To play devil's advocate though, I think devs are much more willing to drop support for older PC configs than they would weaker console hardware. That said, I think the hypothetical Lockhart was carefully designed so as not to impair any aspect of new games aside from rendering resolution and texture quality. Hence the same SSD and overall architecture. It's a strategy we haven't seen yet in the console space, but definitely have in the mobile space
Yeah, I literally said ooooh when reading that, lol.
There are some interesting takes in here, no doubt.
Lockheart is not the one who will hold back the development of the generation. Absolutely.
Those responsible for this will be the PlayStation 4, PlayStation 4 Pro, Xbox One X, PC and especially the Xbox One S.
Microsoft's idea that games will have to be available on all of its platforms (at least for the next 2 years) is clear that the Xbox One HDD and 1.2TFlops will determine the limit of all games in that period.
Most of what you say is just iwata making excuses as to why they never chose 2 of the other possible skus they had as potential Wii skus.
Wii was saved by it's core concepts more than gc/dolphin architecture performance abilities.
Gameplay matters more than graphcis you'd think minecraft and gta would be permanent reminders of that.
Devs making certain PS5 ports won't really be considering non spec compliant machines if we are talking pc
3rd parties making next gen ports aren't ditching current audience capable of some titles just because they lack SSD
3rd parties in some big titles will eventually give no fucks about ancient platter hard drive users.
Titles built for current and next gen were never going to advantage of next gen Io features so you're stuck in the same boat as high end pc users are, welcome to the club
Even then there is a huge difference between SATA and NVMe based drives.
If it has less ram then it won't be able to run One X games, just One S :(
That's a good question. The CPU is going to be leaps and bounds better than the Xbox One X though, so perhaps that will aid in 360 emulation?
Oh, that will definitely happen, and probably sooner rather than later, now that console games are being built specifically for SSD.
As for Lockhart, I'm still not convinced that it is what people think it is. Wake me up when they actually announce something.
yeah you know what, I retract that. It gets away from the discussion at hand. Apologies all and to jason
reduced resolution i'm expecting to be the biggest thing, lower fidelity or frame rates may happen too (but likely in fairly minor ways)
Fanboys love to follow an ignorant narrative when it suits their bias. This won't have an impact on next gen games just like pc's with lower specs don't. Series S users will play at 1080p. It's not that hard to understand. The price is the point we should be talking about. It needs to be at least $50 to $100 cheaper than the all digital PS to have an impact. Parents will eat it up around Christmas time.
"Gameplay matters more than graphcis". For a lot of people this is absolutely true.
So that strategy worked for the Wii and has the potential to work for Lockheart.
In a lot of ways, I don't see that even as a bad thing. Gives PC a chance to get around to upgrading, gives hardware a chance to mature, and gives developers a chance to get to grips with the machine for real experiences.
Certainly, I think Samsung are about to release an ssd that's faster than the ps5 ssd but many people will be on the early ssds still. I'd assume loading screens will be a thing dependant on what ssd is installed.
I wonder how much better Halo Infinite could be if they had the guts to release it only on their next-gen consoles.
Still think it's a big assumption. I don't think most PC gamers think of their hard drive as a limiting factor on whether or not they can play a game.
Isn't the Medium dev out there touting the power of the XSX SSD? That would require an even faster subclass of SSD.
I'd say Multiplaform Publishers are all mostly targeting PC with consoles anyway so it's not even a question. Most of the PC's today have far less capabilities than the Lockhart rumored Specs.
One interesting thing is that Microsoft's First Party Studios will have for at least 2 years to release their games on Xbox One S, One X, (maybe Lockhart), Xbox Series X and PC.
When Sony's internal Studios will only have to target the PS5.
When this things come out, it will be interesting how well MSFT markets the two boxes. Technically, both are excellent on paper for their targetted TV's, but how that is communicated to the public will be an interesting story to follow.
I've worked on games that released at retail, yes, and understand the core concepts of things in this regard. But now I'm an indie dev with no access to any of these consoles, so everything I say is pure speculation.
However, I do have contacts with people I worked with previously. Sadly I can't post anything concrete about Lockhart, as my contacts are all on Sony products.
I don't believe in '2' years. I think we'll see the first next gen only games in late 2021.
I would think the SSD would be slower as it only has to fill 8gb in the same time XSX has to fill 16.
No problems. Insights from people who make games are always good to see here.
Yup. Great post. Based on what devs have said in private their biggest concerns are increasing the QA testing for two profiles of the same game. Nobody has said a peep about Lockhart holding things back with the Series X.
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