• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

MauroNL

What Are Ya' Buying?
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,253
The Netherlands
Some of the people I spoke to were anxious about a video game industry they perceive to be in flux. Apple Arcade and Xbox Game Pass are ushering in a new subscription model, similar to Netflix and Spotify, which could profoundly alter how we value games, despite offering a short-term cash injection for those it supports. Elsewhere, changes to Steam's discoverability algorithms have significantly impacted some game makers' incomes. The burden arguably falls greatest on indie's new wave, which has emerged as a result of the increasing accessibility of video game tools. More people are making stranger, cooler games than ever before, but it's seemingly never been harder to make a living.
Some of the testimonies:

DOC BURFORD, MAKER OF PARATOPIC
Being disabled and living in Kansas, a state that is super red, isn't great because they don't really have the financial support for disabled people. For most of Paratopic's development, I was doing freelance games writing, and I had a Patreon for other esoteric games writing. I was living with family, paying them $250 a month in rent — that's half of what I pay now — and I didn't have to pay utilities. Could I have made it without living there? Probably not. But at the same time, I was not getting by. I was eating a meal a day. I ended up getting diabetes. I was working 20-hour days in February 2018, and that's how I discovered I had a congenital heart defect. The physical cost of poverty and untreated disability is enormous, especially in the United States.
We thought we were going to make a few grand on Paratopic, and we ended up making enough that I could justify moving out for an entire year to get my own place. I wouldn't have to worry about food and rent. Did it make a lot? No, we priced it five bucks. [Since GDC this year], I've had a funding deal, which enables me to make a game at over the poverty line. That's stable for a year or two. I also now have people hitting me up for freelance narrative design work. The freelance gigs individually pay a lot more, but the stability I have from funding is a huge [peace] of mind. Right now, for the kinds of games I'm making and the scale at which I'm making them, it's enough to live on. It's not enough to get medical insurance.
JASON ROBERTS, MAKER OF GOROGOA
I was a software engineer from 1997 to 2012. When I quit my job in 2012, I'd been tinkering with Gorogoa for a while. Crucially, I'd managed to save up a bunch of money. This is kind of my secret: work as a software engineer for 15 years living relatively frugally. I didn't have a car, and I have a rent-controlled apartment in the Bay Area, so I was able to save a few years' worth of living expenses. I spent all of that plus all of my retirement savings. This is why I'm cautious about telling my story. I don't think I made good decisions.
After I ran out of money, I got some more from Indie Fund, and I got some personal loans from friends and family, and then finally got picked up by Annapurna. The game was successful financially because I get most of the royalties after the publisher and platforms, but I'm still rebuilding my retirement and savings so I can survive the next project failing. If it had been a four-person team, it would have been different. Having no dependents also helped. I had no one's life to blow up except mine.
There's a lot of self-deception, which goes into working on a project like this. I didn't have a plan B. I would sometimes wake up in a panic during the middle of the night. I haven't thought about it in a while because I guess once Annapurna came along, I had more security. But looking back, I was worried a lot of the time. The possibility of a real disaster was always looming. You just kind of yo-yo between too much confidence and panic.

Lots more in the full article. Interesting and often hard to read for sure.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
It's really an interesting article, I also as a person making little niche games can relate a lot to a number of their struggles and thoughts so I can tell they're being open-hearted here and genuine.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,307
Things are definitely getting tougher, even in the last year. With the newer changes in the Steam algorithms, there's no traffic on the platform anymore. The sales were something we all looked forward to consistently because we knew we didn't necessarily have to do marketing around them, but now the sales don't have the numbers they used to have. I live on around $2,000 a month, and in good Steam sales, I've made close to five or six thousand, total, but the last sale I made that much was in December last year, and that was the biggest one, too. Ever since, it's been maybe a thousand dollars in a sale. It was a substantial drop. [Steam] really changed something, and it hurt everybody.

Part of the reason I'm living in Connecticut is because I couldn't afford to live in a city anymore. It's in the middle of the woods, and I'm 15 minutes from the town. You need a car to do anything. If you want to do this for a living, you have to readjust your entire life. Thankfully, the economic situation has changed now, though. Contract work has started picking up this year.
Damn. Never realized how much smaller devs relied on steam sales.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,122
UK
"It's not enough to get medical insurance." - Doc Burford, Paratopic

"I've not made enough money on Rosa's Garden to live on yet." - Charlotte Madelon, Rosa's Garden

"Contract work has started picking up this year." - Max Arocena, Becalm

Some intense stories. Thanks to Alex Gordon for covering indie devs who aren't just the big success stories.
 

anaa

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Jun 30, 2019
1,555
Pretty depressing to read, the baba is you one is particularly shocking. I thought that game would have been fairly successful, having a truly brilliant concept and cute marketing.
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,577
Market is saturated and people have limited amounts of money and more importantly time. It is almost impossible to be successful in that kind of environment. Just look at Tizoc monthly hilight threads. There are 100s of great games releasing each month. It hurts to say but there are too many indie developers there and nobody can do anything until that number stops growing and actually goes down.
 
Last edited:

IamFlying

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 6, 2019
765
Pretty depressing to read, the baba is you one is particularly shocking. I thought that game would have been fairly successful, having a truly brilliant concept and cute marketing.

Its a niche game for sure, and visually not something that appeals at first glance.
 

Englebert3rd

Member
Oct 31, 2017
376
I've been trying to give indie developers more recognition on Twitter.
They deserve way more than what they make.
 

5taquitos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,874
OR
Market is saturated and people have limited amounts of money and more importantly time. It is almost impossible to be successful in that kind of environment. Just look at Tizoc monthly hilight threads. There are 100s of great games releasing each month. It hurts to say but there are too many indie developers there and nobody can do anything until that number grows.
Yep, there are more games than ever before, and old games don't really go bad, so those compete for time too. Oh and I can watch virtually any TV show or movie I want with the push of a button. Oh and I still have a stack of books to get through. Oh and I have a family now.
 

Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
It is so incredibly hard to be an independent developer, and realistically just as hard to be in the big league as well because they typically siphon out of those that make a name for themselves in the indie scene. I graduated in 2016 with a Bachelor of Game Development here in Australia, and just my uni cohort alone that graduated alongside me there were at least 100 people. Two that I know of are game developers. Two. And those two struggled hard to get their game to where it is but thankfully it is making money, albeit not as much as would be livable income worthy.

Indie development is just too big now with access to engines and creation kits easier than ever. You also then have things like Steam's curation causing ripples because someone has to lose else there is no way to realistically balance, hence why I don't get the anger towards their system when there is no other system. Hell look at Epic, it hand picks titles and it is already causing issues with titles being pushed to the bottom with barely any spotlight. There is no winning hand for indie games to all get equal showcasing because there is just too much.

I absolutely feel for those still sticking it through, I try to support you where I can. I myself want to one day get back into game development but for now I'm enjoying a more stable career as teacher aide in rural school setting. Though funny enough it actually seems like indie developers could easily transition their skillset to education/government setting and make far more than the actual game scene would ever because of contract payments.
 

Croc Man

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,546
Market is saturated and people have limited amounts of money and more importantly time.
Gaas games wanting more of that time has to be having an effect too.

They mention steam sales being less lucrative. I assume there must be people out there that would have bought Indies between big releases that now rarely stop playing their game of choice.
 
Last edited:

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,577
Gaas games wanting more that time has to be having van effect too.

They mention steam sales being less lucrative. I assume there must be people out there that would have bought Indies between big releases that now rarely stop playing their game of choice.

Yes people sticking to one game longer and spending money on MTX impacted sales too. Fortnite alone costed indie developers a lot of money because kids are willing to spend more money there than to buy indie games that they consider boring.
 

Pororoka

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,210
MX
I just play tested with some friends a small game I'm developing and I'm on the same train as how am I gonna sell it. It's more of a side project from my main job and seeing some histories like those makes me nervous in quitting and pursuing my dream. :/
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
This is why my blood boils when I hear someone talk about how an indie dev is "greedy" for taking a deal.

Even as someone who hotly dislikes the EGS (I promise I'm not trying to derail into that discussion, just giving some perspective), this is seriously an issue of putting food in people's mouths, literally. It's not being dramatic. Heck in some instances for those with health care needs, it literally can be an issue of life and death. And it isn't really always self imposed. I know in Doc's case, this is just about the only thing he is able to actually do to make money.

This is not to say you have to buy every indie game out there, or support every curiosity you see, but perhaps, hey, if you seen an indie game you're into, try to pick it up at launch if you're able.

Wishlist it. Recommend it to friends. That does so much.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,798
This is why my blood boils when I hear someone talk about how an indie dev is "greedy" for taking a deal.

Most of those people are either kids who don't know shit about life or adults who don't know shit about running a business. Just ignore them. :)

"Contract work has started picking up this year." - Max Arocena, Becalm

This is normal for every independent studio that does not have the needed financial backing.
 

Darkstorne

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,813
England
Yep, it's an insanely tough gig, and I have nothing but respect for anyone who manages to release a game, regardless of how it sells. The hours you have to put into creating these things, no matter how small the games seem to most players... I can't even begin to count how many hours I've invested into mine.

I paused development a couple of years ago because the financial fears got to me. I'm lucky enough to have an amazing job that I really enjoy doing (ecology - surveying wildlife for a living), and I'm now married to an amazing wife. In my early 30s so life has hit that "shit is getting serious" stage, and the thought of putting my time into a game that may or may not make much money, over a job I love doing anyway that reliably makes me money, when I have a family now... it's really hard to justify, and it doesn't help that neither my wife nor in-laws see video games as a mature hobby =P "You're taking time of work to do what!?"

With Steam's recent trend of less spotlight for Indie games during sales, and the fear that the two-hour refund policy is heavily exploitable for shorter Indie games, I lost motivation. And that really depresses me =( My game is a 2D city-builder, where you build an arcology - a self-sufficient city inside a mega structure - and have to balance sustainability and land management with the needs and demands of an ever-growing population. You get to choose the type of environment to build on, the visual design of the arcology, and then build inside it in a grid system kinda like XCOM bases, with adjacency bonuses etc. I feel like it would sell, I just... don't know how well. And I'm so clueless when it comes to marketing that without Steam's help I feel like the game might go completely unnoticed, even by gamers who would love the concept.

Forest.png
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,577
This is why my blood boils when I hear someone talk about how an indie dev is "greedy" for taking a deal.

Even as someone who hotly dislikes the EGS (I promise I'm not trying to derail into that discussion, just giving some perspective), this is seriously an issue of putting food in people's mouths, literally. It's not being dramatic. Heck in some instances for those with health care needs, it literally can be an issue of life and death. And it isn't really always self imposed. I know in Doc's case, this is just about the only thing he is able to actually do to make money.

This is not to say you have to buy every indie game out there, or support every curiosity you see, but perhaps, hey, if you seen an indie game you're into, try to pick it up at launch if you're able.

Wishlist it. Recommend it to friends. That does so much.

They can take deals as much as they want but that doesn't solve any issues in long term. Epic won't pay them forever and if sales are not good on Epic store they don't have any constant income. They will survive one release but they still don't know what will happen next time.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
They can take deals as much as they want but that doesn't solve any issues in long term. Epic won't pay them forever and if sales are not good on Epic store they don't have any constant income. They will survive one release but they still don't know what will happen next time.

But that's kind of the thing, sometimes that's the deal they have to take. If you could take a sizeable chunk that guarantees you will make back the costs you make in case it's a failure, vs. getting...nothing at all, wouldn't you? If you had to literally spend your life savings and take out loans and were barely making paycheck to paycheck and could not afford a single emergency, wouldn't you take that just to be able to make that cost back and keep on? Because the all-too-common reality that you don't make anything at all back is just too dangerous to some people's personal lives. It's that serious.

It sucks that they only get assurance still for that one title, but it's still their money back.

I maybe won't be supporting a game on EGS, because I'd rather not support the store, but if I know a developer took that deal to survive and will be bringing their game elsewhere later, you bet if I have any interest in it I'll pick it up when it does so. This obviously isn't any kind of self-congratulations since I'm still waiting, but personally I think that's perfectly fine stance to take.

I think some have taken the stance that if any indie dev takes some sort of deal they have sold their lives to Epic, or EA, or whoever, when the reality is they already sold their lives when they made the game. That's how they get made, so often.

Idk, I'm just trying to help promote sympathy here I guess.

Most of those people are either kids who don't know shit about life or adults who don't know shit about running a business. Just ignore them. :)

Absolutely, but hey, I was once a long time ago one of those shitty kids.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
But that's kind of the thing, sometimes that's the deal they have to take. If you could take a sizeable chunk that guarantees you will make back the costs you make in case it's a failure, vs. getting...nothing at all, wouldn't you? If you had to literally spend your life savings and take out loans and were barely making paycheck to paycheck and could not afford a single emergency, wouldn't you take that just to be able to make that cost back and keep on? Because the all-too-common reality that you don't make anything at all back is just too dangerous to some people's personal lives. It's that serious.

I maybe won't be supporting a game on EGS, because I'd rather not support the store, but if I know a developer took that deal to survive and will be bringing their game elsewhere later, you bet if I have any interest in it I'll pick it up when it does so. This obviously isn't any kind of self-congratulations since I'm still waiting, but personally I think that's perfectly fine stance to take.

I think some have taken the stance that if any indie dev takes some sort of deal they have sold their lives to Epic, or EA, or whoever, when the reality is they already sold their lives when they made the game. That's how they get made, so often.

Idk, I'm just trying to help promote sympathy here I guess.



Absolutely, but hey, I was once a long time ago one of those shitty kids.
The issue is also that most of the indie devs that get the guaranteed money are not the same indie devs that are barely scrapping by in here. They are devs that have already had succesful games in the past or that had enough resources to also tackle console developer (or were backed by major indie publishers, reducing the overall risk).
I am also not against them accepting the money, they should just come out and say that, not try to lie to me in my face.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,154
Indonesia
This is why my blood boils when I hear someone talk about how an indie dev is "greedy" for taking a deal.

Even as someone who hotly dislikes the EGS (I promise I'm not trying to derail into that discussion, just giving some perspective), this is seriously an issue of putting food in people's mouths, literally. It's not being dramatic. Heck in some instances for those with health care needs, it literally can be an issue of life and death. And it isn't really always self imposed. I know in Doc's case, this is just about the only thing he is able to actually do to make money.

This is not to say you have to buy every indie game out there, or support every curiosity you see, but perhaps, hey, if you seen an indie game you're into, try to pick it up at launch if you're able.

Wishlist it. Recommend it to friends. That does so much.
The indie devs that this article are talking about, and the ones that took Epic's deal are on a completely different levels. They're all indies, but there are super popular with million seller games, and there are super obscure ones too like the ones that this article mentions. The former are not in a condition of "scrapping by". They also have no chance of being offered an exclusive deal by Epic.
 

Catshade

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,198
I wonder how much they get from bundle sites, because that's where I got 99% of my indie games (all 3000+ of them) on Steam.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,712
I've got to ask, what's the point of a masters degree as a game dev? What skills/knowledge are you gaining that will make you a more valuable employee?

I just saw that a couple of those people were getting there masters degrees and I am curious to know why, outside of personal fufilment of course.


More on topic, the struggle is real. In blood sweat and pixels the stardew valley creator had a similar story to these. Even after the massive success of that game he was still living a very modest life.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
The indie devs that this article are talking about, and the ones that took Epic's deal are on a completely different levels. They're all indies, but there are super popular with million seller games, and there are super obscure ones too like the ones that this article mentions. The former are not in a condition of "scrapping by". They also have no chance of being offered an exclusive deal by Epic.

While these are the most extreme examples, the essential point of scraping by very much applies to a lot of devs that get these deals.

The issue is also that most of the indie devs that get the guaranteed money are not the same indie devs that are barely scrapping by in here. They are devs that have already had succesful games in the past or that had enough resources to also tackle console developer (or were backed by major indie publishers, reducing the overall risk).
I am also not against them accepting the money, they should just come out and say that, not try to lie to me in my face.

Absolutely agree. Didn't want to get too derailed here but I was pretty annoyed by the ooblets situation, where even kind of saying it, they still did not handle it very well at all.

Explain the situation honestly, and I think that any vitriol that happens beyond that is not your responsibility. It's then on the part of games to not be awful about it.
 

Deleted member 15447

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,728
Definitely some depressing stories there.

It is the same in any industry though. I used to be a personal lender at a bank and over the years met lots of people who quit their day jobs to pursue their dream. Most failed within the first 12 months.

And the goodness in you obviously wishes them success but that's not life. Not everyone can make a living doing something they love. So in that sense I don't feel sorry for them, because there's those of us who stand up holding traffic signs 12 hours a day, clean toilets 6 days a week. One of my close friends worked in retail for almost 3 years after getting his law degree because there weren't enough jobs for graduates.

It's tough anywhere.

And I know I'll get a bunch of notifications for replies attacking me but it's the truth.
 

Nabs

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,692
Pretty depressing to read, the baba is you one is particularly shocking. I thought that game would have been fairly successful, having a truly brilliant concept and cute marketing.
The Baba dev was talking about the success of Environmental Station Alpha. Both Baba and Noita seem to doing well.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,154
Indonesia
While these are the most extreme examples, the essential point of scraping by very much applies to a lot of devs that get these deals.
Those indie devs received an exclusive deal because their previous games were successful. They're all high profile indie studios. They already made their own audience from their previous work, who will gladly buy their next game and even promote it. They will definitely get more money by taking the deal, but they're in no position of scrapping by at all. Meanwhile, the games this article talking about, are not so fortunate. They sold poorly to begin with and not in the same scope as those successful games in the first place, in terms of production value and whatnot.

Anyway, I do agree with your last remark. We as costumers can help them. Even if you don't buy them, you can at least help promote them in your circles, or maybe here in Era.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
Those indie devs received an exclusive deal because their previous games were successful. They're all high profile indie studios. They already made their own audience from their previous work, who will gladly buy their next game and even promote it. They will definitely get more money by taking the deal, but they're in no position of scrapping by at all. Meanwhile, the games this article talking about, are not so fortunate. They sold poorly to begin with and not in the same scope as those successful games in the first place, in terms of production value and whatnot.

Anyway, I do agree with your last remark. We as costumers can help them. Even if you don't buy them, you can at least help promote them in your circles, or maybe here in Era.

Still not true of all of them. Darq's developer was offered an exclusivity deal of the same nature as all Epic's games. That's one guy who had never made anything before.
 

m0dus

Truant Pixel
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,034
Good article.

I would say, for us, marketing has been by far the most frustrating element of the development struggle, because whereas we are able to chip away at our games until they provide an ideal experience, getting them into the channel has been incredibly difficult and out of our control. We just released on 3 platforms (PS4, Switch and PC) and despite dozens of emails, tons of media codes, and going so far as to hire a professional to reach out To individual editors and help with PR, we've been unable to get any major sites (Kotaku, IGN) to give us any coverage or even a response...we realize people are busy, but it's incredibly disheartening the small-to-nonexistent coverage your efforts will reap, whereas somebody puts a bunny in Destiny 2 and it get a 2 page article. 😅
 

hrœrekr

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 3, 2019
1,655
Interesting read for those defending Steam's 30% cut.
 

Cosmonaut X

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,947
Still not true of all of them. Darq's developer was offered an exclusivity deal of the same nature as all Epic's games. That's one guy who had never made anything before.

From memory, didn't Darq have a reasonable amount of pre-release buzz (which was at least partly why Epic reached out to the dev in the first place)?

I think the difficulty many (most?) indie devs have right now could probably be covered like this:

-- Getting attention in a super-crowded marketplace (on all platforms) is incredibly difficult and/or expensive, and striking on the concept that gets media and enthusiast interest is at least part-luck.

-- Steam has very low barriers to entry, but changes in discovery algorithms and other back-end updates, as well as the overwhelming stream of new content means that Steam generally, and Steam Sales particularly, can't be relied on in the way they used to be. Part of this is a Steam-specific issue, part of it is a wider games industry issue, where GaaS titles suck up a lot of energy and money, and you're competing against a vast number of other games on every platform.

-- Epic's money-up-front deals can eliminate a great deal of the risk for an indie dev, with guaranteed income and - because of the way the Epic store is set up right now - better visibility. Unfortunately, many of the deals are being struck with the indie devs who already have good visibility and an engaged customer base - Epic aren't going to pull their "descend-like-the-hand-of-God" routine on titles they don't already believe will attract users to their store, after all. So, the indie devs who would previously have launched on Steam with little fanfare and eventually, through Steam Sales and Steam's previous discovery setup, have made a reasonable return are the ones who are losing out on both fronts. Steam no longer works the way it did, and Epic are passing over them in favour of the indies who are arguably in a better position to release on Steam and make a return.

For the devs who are lucky enough to be picked up by Epic, that secured income and attention may be enough to help them succeed and prepare for their next title - though whether Epic pay out for that is up in the air, so it may be that that cash injection is simply a stay of execution. For the devs who aren't lucky enough, we have the stories in the OP. I don't know how you square the circle here, as part of this feels like a natural market correction - there simply isn't room for *everyone* who wants to make a game - but I think we're going to hear many more of these stories before long, and I suspect that after the initial cash injection for certain indies from Epic there might be quite a few sophomore release tales of woe there too. Really tough times to be an independent dev working on a game.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,780
Interesting read for those defending Steam's 30% cut.

Not cool. Clearly Gabe needs another yatch or maybe a castle.

(wikipedia)
In December 2010, Forbes named Newell as "A Name You Should Know", primarily for his work on Steam having partnerships with multiple major developers.[14] In March 2013, Newell received the BAFTA Fellowship award for his contributions to the video game industry.[15] In October 2017, Forbes listed him among the 100 richest people in the United States, with an estimated net worth of US$5.5 billion.[16][17]
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,745
Are we making another Steam bashing thread? Because the majority of these platforms charge 30%

Do we look up what Sony, Epic, MS, Nintendo's CEOS net worths are?
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
Are we making another Steam bashing thread? Because the majority of these platforms charge 30%

Do we look up what Sony, Epic, MS, Nintendo's CEOS net worths are?
I'm hoping it doesn't become one as Steam isn't the problem here. I know there's similar struggles for indies on consoles or indies that try to go truly independent (like use Itch.io, Patreon, GameJolt, or their own website and the like). It's just hard to be an indie for a number of factors all around.
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
Is this not a good reason why things like Gamepass (maybe) a good idea?

They don't have to fret about sales, they get the money up front, and it takes the pressure off and increases the visibility and footfall of the product without people having to buy the product.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
Is this not a good reason why things like Gamepass (maybe) a good idea?

They don't have to fret about sales, they get the money up front, and it takes the pressure off and increases the visibility and footfall of the product without people having to buy the product.

The problem with having to rely on Gamepass is that now MS needs content so they're offerring interesting deal, but when GP is entrenched everywhere the power balance changes and now it's indie devs who need GP to survive.
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
The problem with having to rely on Gamepass is that now MS needs content so they're offerring interesting deal, but when GP is entrenched everywhere the power balance changes and now it's indie devs who need GP to survive.
It's always a moving market, you just have to ride the wave of where that market is at the current time.

I don't envy them, for every indie darling, there are loads of others that get overlooked, discoverability, at least on console (without gamepass) is awful.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
It's always a moving market, you just have to ride the wave of where that market is at the current time.

I don't envy them, for every indie darling, there are loads of others that get overlooked, discoverability, at least on console (without gamepass) is awful.

It really is a conundrum.

Secure your short term future in a way that can jeopardise long term sustainability, or try to go at it on your own and risk to get fucked right now in the hopes that you'll fall through the cracks and be a breakout success.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,745
Is this not a good reason why things like Gamepass (maybe) a good idea?

They don't have to fret about sales, they get the money up front, and it takes the pressure off and increases the visibility and footfall of the product without people having to buy the product.

The way Gamepass metrics work (hours played) means a lot of these game experiences might end up being throwaway with little financial incentive for an indiedev to pursue. GaaS type games (which are rarely an endproduct of indie) stand the most to gain.