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Akronis

Prophet of Regret - Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,448
Not at all, it's normal to advise people to temper their expectations. What is weird is going into all the PS5 threads and telling people to temper their expectations. Ain't nobody paying you for that shit.

With how often the hype train gets insanely out of control especially with new platforms, I really don't see an issue with his statements in each thread. It's not like there's one master thread for PS5 discussion and his posts are not off-topic for the threads he posts in.

Okay, so what? Both Nvidia and AMD have made poor products in the past (guessing you didn't own a 480) but Zen chiplets are an excellent choice for PS5 and it's a highly regarded product. We don't know much about Navi yet, but the leaks look much more promising than Vega did. There isn't an Nvidia or Intel architecture suitable for PS5. Meanwhile there are two new AMD architectures available and they're both seen as being some of AMD's best for quite some time

You talking about the GTX 480? You could've probably chosen the FX series for NVIDIA as an example because it was probably the worst thing NVIDIA has ever done lol.

All I remember the 480 being awful about is the heat and power consumption, but I was less involved online those days so I don't remember what the general consensus was.
 

RavFiveFour

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
1,721
PC and consoles are different. Because casuals generally gravitated to consoles (not saying hardcore gamers don't) these details don't do any favors and obviously SONYs going with AMD again after the PS4's recent success.
 

Olaf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,419
"But by the time it comes out in a PlayStation 5, it will be less powerful and less expensive than what Intel and AMD can provide on a high-end PC by 2020."
Stupid point to keep repeating every time a new console is released. Of course the high-end PC market is going to be ahead, but a Zen 2 + Navi console is going to be a hell of a lot closer to top end PCs than the PS4 was at its release.
 

Deleted member 34239

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 24, 2017
1,154
With how often the hype train gets insanely out of control especially with new platforms, I really don't see an issue with his statements in each thread. It's not like there's one master thread for PS5 discussion and his posts are not off-topic for the threads he posts in.



You talking about the GTX 480? You could've probably chosen the FX series for NVIDIA as an example because it was probably the worst thing NVIDIA has ever done lol.

All I remember the 480 being awful about is the heat and power consumption, but I was less involved online those days so I don't remember what the general consensus was.
I didn't know Era hired a hype train conductor? I dunno man, it's SenjutsuSage(old forum) levels of weird man. I simply noticed something and pointed it out.
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,205
Hmm which is more relevant evidence here... your own PC or millions of consoles sold with no scandal regarding failure rates?

For me? I wonder haha.

Still, amd is inferior to both intel and nvidia so overall the news is disappointing, but not surprising since it'll be cheaper for both Sony and MS.
 

Akronis

Prophet of Regret - Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,448
I didn't know Era hired a hype train conductor? I dunno man, it's SenjutsuSage(old forum) levels of weird man. I simply noticed something and pointed it out.

The amount of insufferable console warring that is going to result from all of these threads and news is bad enough, I'd rather not have people's ridiculous assertions based on limited information as well. Dictator is also well known around here and is very knowledgeable so his word carries some weight.
 

shadowhaxor

EIC of Theouterhaven
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,728
Claymont, Delaware
Wait. Didn't Nvidia say a while ago they were done getting involved with consoles in the first place? It's more "Nvidia wasn't even an option" than AMD beats out Nvidia. I still found it strange that Nvidia ended up partnering with Nintendo on the Switch.
 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
If AMD is making the console chips, it means your -70+ series nvidia card from the last few years will remain viable a while longer.
 

Deleted member 34239

User requested account closure
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Nov 24, 2017
1,154
The amount of insufferable console warring that is going to result from all of these threads and news is bad enough, I'd rather not have people's ridiculous assertions based on limited information as well. Dictator is also well known around here and is very knowledgeable so his word carries some weight.
While you do raise a fair argument, some of his other colleagues from DF who post on here have opted not to participate in the speculation, which is wise. If you don't know, it's best not to comment. As it stands, a select group are privy to the ps5's hardware details. It's just like the next gen speculation thread.... People are predicting and asserting specs/services based on a foundation of assumptions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,084
For me? I wonder haha.

Still, amd is inferior to both intel and nvidia so overall the news is disappointing, but not surprising since it'll be cheaper for both Sony and MS.
"For you" isn't how it works. The claim that "AMD is worse" goes beyond you and as such it requires evidence beyond your experience. Like statistics.

What is it about the choice of AMD that is disappointing? You think NVIDIA would have provided better performance at the same price? Aren't they historically more expensive? Can't Sony work with whoever provides the hardware to craft their desired specs? Specs being equal, what's the downside to AMD?
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
I'm cool with AMD, I like their open source initiatives and I think they are pretty good bang for the buck. It should keep costs down for the most part.

But I anticipate a lot of complaints about how the PS5 sounds like a jet engine taking off due to thermals, haha. AMD stuff runs real hot.
 

ASaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,228
What it means is that the big consolemakers' partnership that started in 2013, is still ongoing? Because they are uniquely capable of delivering quality integrated APUs?

I wonder if Intel could try to make a play next next gen tho. If their GPU line succeeds, they could move into APUs as well.
 

Akronis

Prophet of Regret - Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,448
While you do raise a fair argument, some of his other colleagues from DF who post on here have opted not to participate in the speculation, which is wise. If you don't know, it's best not to comment. As it stands, a select group are privy to the ps5's hardware details. It's just like the next gen speculation thread.... People are predicting and asserting specs/services based on a foundation of assumptions.

I wouldn't say that he's obligated to avoid posting in these threads; he has a wealth of knowledge about this stuff and it's invaluable to people here that he cuts through bullshit. We can extrapolate based on current hardware trends since some people here have the knowledge to do so.

Is it still all guessing? I would say so. But I much prefer educated guesses from people that have a history of knowing their shit.
 

ZugZug123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,412
As a PC gamer, I'm happy AMD will have this lifeline to keep on going, since I use their GPU on my PC builds. I have a very strong dislike for NVidia based on a bad experience with one of their GPUs a while ago and I am not too fond of their in your face business practices. They would definitely suck a lot if they became a monopoly on PC GPUs.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,033
While you do raise a fair argument, some of his other colleagues from DF who post on here have opted not to participate in the speculation, which is wise. If you don't know, it's best not to comment. As it stands, a select group are privy to the ps5's hardware details. It's just like the next gen speculation thread.... People are predicting and asserting specs/services based on a foundation of assumptions.
The article in the OP started this though by making claims out of thin air about an AMD raytracing solution that's even supposedly more energy-efficient than Nvidia's, which would be quite astounding given AMD's track record in this regard.
 

Akronis

Prophet of Regret - Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,448
As a PC gamer, I'm happy AMD will have this lifeline to keep on going, since I use their GPU on my PC builds. I have a very strong dislike for NVidia based on a bad experience with one of their GPUs a while ago and I am not too fond of their in your face business practices. They would definitely suck a lot if they became a monopoly on PC GPUs.

Hopefully whenever Intel is ready to show off their discrete GPU it will shake things up and undercut NVIDIA. I've kind of given up hope that AMD will ever compete in the high end space again after the gains NVIDIA has consistently made.
 

Deleted member 35598

User requested account closure
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Dec 7, 2017
6,350
Spain
Nvidia are fine with Nintendo and the Switch. That system will sell 100 million units lifetime for sure.

A bit disappointed Sony didn't go with Nvidia. They did an outstanding job with the Switch. I would have been interested to see what they would have done on a high end console.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
Nvidia didn't want the consoles. Sony approached them for the PS4 but they turned it down because of the margins. Nvidia doesn't need the money either they're insanely rich off desktop GPU sales alone whereas AMD has barely 20% marketshare if we use Steam HW Survey as a ballpark source. I really, really doubt Nvidia cares about the consoles and I wouldn't say they were "beat out" by AMD. They were never in the running.
 

Deleted member 2171

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Oct 25, 2017
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Wait. Didn't Nvidia say a while ago they were done getting involved with consoles in the first place? It's more "Nvidia wasn't even an option" than AMD beats out Nvidia. I still found it strange that Nvidia ended up partnering with Nintendo on the Switch.

That's because they absolutely burned their bridges with both MS and Sony. I'm also surprised Nintendo partnered with NV, but maybe the company saw Nintendo as their last chance.

For all we know though, NV will just burn the third and final bridge into the console space.
 

Deleted member 36622

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Dec 21, 2017
6,639
I won't lie, I'm biased, I had AMD stuff in my PC and it wasn't a pleasant experience, never again.

Old AMD was terrible, they have improved a lot of things especially on the CPU side with the Ryzen series.

Anyway this was an obvious choice for both Microsoft and Sony: Nvidia has done an horrible job in the past with both the original Xbox and the PS3 which were their design wins, while AMD has always been very consistent with consoles.

Nvidia found their own space in the console industry only recently with the Switch, and it makes their Tegra division relevant (otherwise it would have been dead by now probably) so in a way they're covered even though it's definitely a smaller piece of the cake.
 

Deleted member 36622

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Dec 21, 2017
6,639
I don't think there was any alternative for Nintendo. AMD didn't have a chip as efficient as Tegra as far as I have seen. I still don't think they do even now but maybe someone can correct me.

What? there definitely was an alternative for Nintendo. Its name is Qualcomm, and they make chipsets for almost all smartphones.

Nvidia desperately needed partners for their Tegra series, and Nintendo probably found a good deal.
 

Deleted member 2533

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Oct 25, 2017
8,325
The article in the OP started this though by making claims out of thin air about an AMD raytracing solution that's even supposedly more energy-efficient than Nvidia's, which would be quite astounding given AMD's track record in this regard.

JaseC basically quit social media because he called out a website on what would be a later retracted 4chan rumour that RDR2 was EGS exclusive and someone on the forum went after him.

90% of the gaming press is just people reprinting press releases. It's valuable for people to call it out and remind posters here that we have not seen AMD's RT tech, that we have not seen Sony's SSD tech, and that all tech companies in the console and PC space have oversold their benchmarks in the lead-up to release since the beginning of time.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
While that is true, it must get tiring repeating yourself in all these ps5 threads? Absolutely no useful information was provided in the wired article as it relates to hardware but, your responses in the ps5 threads are interesting.... The fervor which you display when refuting amd's claims to raytracing is certainly interesting, especially since you have absolutely no information on it's capabilities like the rest of us.....

Why criticize someone trying to reasonably adjust expectations? Especially about something (ray tracing) about which they likely have superior knowledge?
 

Quad Lasers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,542
While that is true, it must get tiring repeating yourself in all these ps5 threads? Absolutely no useful information was provided in the wired article as it relates to hardware but, your responses in the ps5 threads are interesting.... The fervor which you display when refuting amd's claims to raytracing is certainly interesting, especially since you have absolutely no information on it's capabilities like the rest of us.....

Calling out shit reporting seems like a pretty good use of time to me.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
What? there definitely was an alternative for Nintendo. Its name is Qualcomm, and they make chipsets for almost all smartphones.
From what I understand Qualcomm's lack of API support would have made this very difficult.
Were Nvidia and Intel ever really in the running?
No, which is why it's a silly article
The word "standalone" caught my attention.
Yeah it's a strange word to use when they're clearly talking about APU but Intel doesn't have standalone GPUs at the moment and their APU isn't as good as AMD in terms of GPU
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
What? there definitely was an alternative for Nintendo. Its name is Qualcomm, and they make chipsets for almost all smartphones.

Nvidia desperately needed partners for their Tegra series, and Nintendo probably found a good deal.
Do you have any sources for what you claim? Of all the rumours about the Switch development I've never seen Qualcomm mentioned as an option once.
 

Deleted member 34239

User requested account closure
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Nov 24, 2017
1,154
Why criticize someone trying to reasonably adjust expectations? Especially about something (ray tracing) about which they likely have superior knowledge?
Boy, isn't this thread just full of assumptions.
Calling out shit reporting seems like a pretty good use of time to me.
It is a very good use of time. it's an even better use of time when you use evidence to back it up. Using the absence of evidence as an argument is never the foundation of a sound rebuttal.
 

Deleted member 25042

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Oct 29, 2017
2,077
How to make an article out of nothing.

NV was never in the race in the first place.
We have absolutely no information about the RT solution used by AMD, if it's even hardware based, and yet they assume that it's more power efficent...

Lots of articles/analyses when we know very little about the true specs of the console.
 

Deleted member 36622

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Dec 21, 2017
6,639
Do you have any sources for what you claim? Of all the rumours about the Switch development I've never seen Qualcomm mentioned as an option once.

Oh no its not a rumor or speculation, Qualcomm is just the leader on manufacturing mobile platforms, they're always the most obvious choice.

Another alternative could have been Samsung with their Exynos and a Mali GPU (unrealistic), or assembling some custom extremely cheap hardware like they did in the past with Wii U and 3DS.

On the other hand Nvidia Tegra before the Switch didn't have a great history on smartphone and tablets, it was well known they were struggling to find partners beyond IoT devices. In fact before launch i was worried this could have been another hardware ruined by a bad chipset, instead for the most part, things went well.

From what I understand Qualcomm's lack of API support would have made this very difficult.

They catched up with Nvidia in the past 2 years, they added Vulkan support on all their mid-high range Adreno 3 years ago.

I think there would have been some compromise given Qualcomm's lack of experience on gaming hardware, but it was possible.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
Boy, isn't this thread just full of assumptions.

It is a very good use of time. it's an even better use of time when you use evidence to back it up. Using the absence of evidence as an argument is never the foundation of a sound rebuttal.

What's the assumption? Managing expectations?

How are they assuming AMD's RT solution is more power efficient? Zero reason to think that's the case.

See, Barnabas points out an assumption.
 

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,879
While that is true, it must get tiring repeating yourself in all these ps5 threads? Absolutely no useful information was provided in the wired article as it relates to hardware but, your responses in the ps5 threads are interesting.... The fervor which you display when refuting amd's claims to raytracing is certainly interesting, especially since you have absolutely no information on it's capabilities like the rest of us.....
Fine, ignore him and keep getting your expectations up, but don't whine when you're disappointed.
 

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
455
Georgia
I doubt anyone uses desktop class parts from nVidia anymore. Iirc they screwed over Sony something fierce in the PS3. Not to mention if they use nVidia they have to get the CPU from somewhere and AMD is the only logical choice for APUs atm.

Sony/MS certainly will not use ARM in the foreseeable future so it's really their only option.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,905
I don't think there was any alternative for Nintendo. AMD didn't have a chip as efficient as Tegra as far as I have seen. I still don't think they do even now but maybe someone can correct me.
It was Nintendo's only real choice for a mobile/hyrbid console but Switch's success has also turned out to be something of a lifeline for the struggling Tegra. Both companies are benefitting from the partnership.

Nvidia as a whole doesn't need the console biz like AMD does though.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,970
I am guilty of not reading the whole article but this part made me read the sentence twice because I could not believe it the first time. Like... what. Better? According to what metric?
The metric is platform-warring bullshit, pulled from thin air.
Intel and NVIDIA hardware is more efficient than AMD's. NVIDIA have been beating AMD on GPU efficiency for a long time now, and this is unlikely to change when Navi is still GCN-based. NVIDIA have been ahead of AMD on efficiency even when being behind on the process node.

There's so much misinformation going around based on the Wired article that it's very frustrating if you're even slightly informed about this sort of PC-based hardware.
That's not to say these next-gen systems aren't going to be good - they will be a huge upgrade over current hardware and have me a little concerned as a PC gamer because devs are going to start targeting 30 FPS on that level of hardware.
But they're still going to be power-constrained devices built for a ~$500 price point - and AMD is likely the best choice for that kind of system. An Intel/NVIDIA box would either be more expensive or less powerful at the same price; but it would almost certainly be more efficient.

We don't even know if AMD have specific hardware for ray tracing in Navi.
I think it's likely, but that's pure speculation at this point. To say that they not only have RT hardware, but that it's more efficient than NVIDIA's RT Cores is a complete fabrication.
For all we know, it could be a compute-based solution. There was a GDC presentation about Ray-Traced Irradiance Fields this year, which demonstrated a solution that can scale down to running on Xbox One hardware: https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1026182/
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,989
Yeah, this makes it seem like Nvidia and Intel had a shot, I don't think that was the ever the case. Would be absolutely shocking if true.