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ChrisJSY

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,067
Good. It was always against the ToS, and these freeloaders contribute to everyone else paying higher prices.

Okay, so if they do this, will they decrease the prices at the same time?
LMAO like fuck they will, they already make over a billion in profit alone. (not revenue).

I share my account, but I can't remember the last time I used it, the people who share off of me use it almost daily.
This will just make me cancel it, because I'm doing it more for the other people than myself but I've told them this might happen.

They will just probably sub themselves, so it works, but for me I just don't need it.
 

Donepalace

Member
Mar 16, 2019
2,628
It's crazy that people who pirate get a better deal none of this jumping around services crap to find what you want to watch

what all these different streaming services are gonna end up doing is just driving people right back to torrents I could understand 2 sure but now there's like 6 different services
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Sorry, but expecting constant innovation in a pretty matured and "simple" market like streaming is unreasonable. And even then, Netflix has been innovating and adding features. There's free games included now (with no in app purchases), interactive films, and the Netflix mobile app is unparrelled in it's calendar features, fast laughs feature, and general really great UI functionality. I don't use a lot of that stuff but clearly a lot of their userbase does, but that doesn't mean they aren't "innovating".

Just because they're trying to stop some people leeching off other subscriptions doesn't mean they're done for. Netflix is a really good service and it's entirely reasonable to stop some people doing this.

I'm not the one who decided that companies need to show year over year growth and that simply remaining dominant isn't enough to be considered successful. The stock market did that. And it's not fully sustainable in such a simple market like streaming, as you say. Most of what they can do at this point is raise prices and do things that annoy some of the userbase while trying to rig the first week metrics to generate buzz that sounds like growth that isn't really possible anymore, cancelling two season old shows and swapping in new ones to generate new headlines.

Of course they can stop "leeches" and "freeloaders" but the reason they haven't done that thus far is because steps they take that make the process more inconvenient for the paying customer work against them in many ways, they're just taking the risk because they need growth. How many people that split the ever increasing cost by sharing it with friends will cancel if they have to each pay in full each month? How many older family members that had their account set up by someone younger will no longer be interested if the easy to use thing on their TV starts prompting for more verification? How many parents keep their account because they think their kid in college is probably the one using it and they don't bother to actually check? They could have done this years ago and they haven't because they know that they might actually lose subscribers through making their easy process more annoying and forcing the higher price on every single user, but this is the point they're at in the timeline of a company.

It's usually the part before things slowly fall apart, because they are no longer the only game in town. Netflix isn't going to disappear overnight or anything, but the value proposition of having an account is only going to get worse and worse.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,010
Era really does have a defense force for everything if password sharing has detractors lol.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,272
London
I'm not the one who decided that companies need to show year over year growth and that simply remaining dominant isn't enough to be considered successful. The stock market did that. And it's not fully sustainable in such a simple market like streaming, as you say. Most of what they can do at this point is raise prices and do things that annoy some of the userbase while trying to rig the first week metrics to generate buzz that sounds like growth that isn't really possible anymore, cancelling two season old shows and swapping in new ones to generate new headlines.

Netflix cannot sit still without literally going bust. It's spending and debt are both very high, and the business literally collapses if they do not increase ARPU and subscriber count.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,272
London
Okay, so if they do this, will they decrease the prices at the same time?
LMAO like fuck they will, they already make over a billion in profit alone. (not revenue).

Netflix is a cash negative business. It only declares a profit because US accounting law means you can borrow long term bonds and only need to consider the interest when working out your profit statement.

Netflix has been spending billions more than it brings in for years.
 

Surakian

Shinra Employee
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
10,987
Era really does have a defense force for everything if password sharing has detractors lol.
Somebody has to have a moral backbone about following anti-consumer Terms of Service written by greedy corporations or else society will collapse under the weight of giving my grandma my password.
 

darkwing

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,063
in my country, Netflix account sharing is sold by business minded people lol
 

Caped Baldy

Member
Dec 11, 2017
807
I'm only bitter about password sharing because we pay for an account in my house, and my older brother (who makes substantially more than me) uses his in-law's account.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,061
Houston
I think there is a pretty decent chunk of people who would not pay regardless, like Netflix would never see a dime from them in any scenario, for those people I don't know what not being able to access the content will accomplish really. If you were never going to get their money, locking them out of the content is more a symbolic gesture than anything that on one hand could be a bad enough look that it has a negative ripple effect, or it could have a positive effect by signaling to people whose money is on the table that they better keep paying. I don't know which it would be or if they would just cancel each other out.
the thing is, is it still costs money to run that infrastructure. Have you seen how much cloud egress costs are?
If they were never going to subscribe then fine dont subscribe, but they put extra use and burden on the service without paying for it.

But more to your point, people are mad because they are already paying for the content, they are paying for a subscription that includes multiple screens, it's even listed on their website as "Number of screens you can watch on at the same time".
and the counter to that is, the TOS specifically state that you're not allowed to share accounts with people that live outside your home.
 
May 14, 2021
16,731
the thing is, is it still costs money to run that infrastructure. Have you seen how much cloud egress costs are?
If they were never going to subscribe then fine dont subscribe, but they put extra use and burden on the service without paying for it.

and the counter to that is, the TOS specifically state that you're not allowed to share accounts with people that live outside your home.
A fact Netflix themselves openly mocked for years.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,163
It's funny seeing how people try to justify stealing.

Okay, so if they do this, will they decrease the prices at the same time?
Strawman.

It's crazy that people who pirate get a better deal none of this jumping around services crap to find what you want to watch

what all these different streaming services are gonna end up doing is just driving people right back to torrents I could understand 2 sure but now there's like 6 different services
Let's not pretend your argument has anything to do with convenience. It's purely about stealing to avoid paying.

Era really does have a defense force for everything if password sharing has detractors lol.
The more people who freeload, the more pressure it puts on those who pay.

Somebody has to have a moral backbone about following anti-consumer Terms of Service written by greedy corporations or else society will collapse under the weight of giving my grandma my password.
It's funny how a company expecting people not to consume their service for free apparently makes them greedy, but people expecting to consume a service for free is not about them being greedy.
 

Surakian

Shinra Employee
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
10,987
It's funny how a company expecting people not to consume their service for free apparently makes them greedy, but people expecting to consume a service for free is not about them being greedy.
And it's funny seeing people focus their morality on people literally paying for a service and letting their family use it. Netflix isn't getting these people's money. People would have just pirated their content or sought out other content without having access to these services. Imo pirating is worse than somebody lending their paid account out to somebody.

Next thing you're going to tell me is that people shouldn't borrow books from the library because it's not paying the publisher any money and it's a shared book.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,892
It's funny seeing how people try to justify stealing.

Odd how netflix isn't suddenly giving money back to accounts that bought upper tiers for multiple devices.

It's suddenly a leech argument despite the fact they have had how long to to put in a decent system yet never have. Justifying seems like a waste of time when pointing out their behavior the last decade is easier.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,163
And it's funny seeing people focus their morality on people literally paying for a service and letting their family use it. Netflix isn't getting these people's money. People would have just pirated their content or sought out other content without having access to these services. Imo pirating is worse than somebody lending their paid account out to somebody.

Next thing you're going to tell me is that people shouldn't borrow books from the library because it's not paying the publisher any money and it's a shared book.
Netflix is a public library now?

Your family can share the service... in your household. That's always been fine.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,437
Not following ToS and "stealing" are not the same thing.

Like... we pay for 4 streams. We are absolutely not stealing by watching those 4 streams. If the only way Netflix can become profitable is by piecemealing up those 4 streams in really arbitrary ways then maybe they shouldn't have spent so much venture capitalist money and loans to undercut and destroy movie rental businesses before figuring that shit out.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
Good. It was always against the ToS, and these freeloaders contribute to everyone else paying higher prices.
This isn't how it works, and corporate apologists in this thread are outright lying pretending that it is.

Netflix will do whatever they can to get more money out of customers without losing them. If they can limit account sharing, they'll do it. If they can raise the price, they'll do it. If they can limit account sharing AND raise the price, they'll do it.

When discussing stuff like this, no one at Netflix is going "oh great! We'll cut off account sharing and then we can cut the price of our service to compensate". No, they'll continue raising the sub price at the same rate they've always raised it at.

Saw the same shit when Sony raised the price of PS5 games to $70. Didn't stop them from putting scummy mtx practices in games like GT7
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Netflix cannot sit still without literally going bust. It's spending and debt are both very high, and the business literally collapses if they do not increase ARPU and subscriber count.

Netflix is a cash negative business. It only declares a profit because US accounting law means you can borrow long term bonds and only need to consider the interest when working out your profit statement.

Netflix has been spending billions more than it brings in for years.

And their problem is there simply aren't a lot of people left in the markets they serve who haven't already made the call on whether or not netflix is something they are willing to pay for. Their primary option is expansion to new markets, which is also going to cost an absurd amount.

This isn't how it works, and corporate apologists in this thread are outright lying pretending that it is.

Netflix will do whatever they can to get more money out of customers without losing them. If they can limit account sharing, they'll do it. If they can raise the price, they'll do it. If they can limit account sharing AND raise the price, they'll do it.

When discussing stuff like this, no one at Netflix is going "oh great! We'll cut off account sharing and then we can cut the price of our service to compensate". No, they'll continue raising the sub price at the same rate they've always raised it at.

You're going to be accused of strawmanning even though you're replying to the explicit implication that the high prices result from "freeloaders." But you're right, of course.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,163
This isn't how it works, and corporate apologists in this thread are outright lying pretending that it is.

Netflix will do whatever they can to get more money out of customers without losing them. If they can limit account sharing, they'll do it. If they can raise the price, they'll do it. If they can limit account sharing AND raise the price, they'll do it.

When discussing stuff like this, no one at Netflix is going "oh great! We'll cut off account sharing and then we can cut the price of our service to compensate". No, they'll continue raising the sub price at the same rate they've always raised it at.

Saw the same shit when Sony raised the price of PS5 games to $70. Didn't stop them from putting scummy mtx practices in games like GT7
Thanks for proving my point. You just said one of the ways they can make more money is limiting the "sharing" aka stealing. So when they're looking at ways to make more money, that's an option that doesn't harm those who aren't breaking the ToS. As I said, the freeloaders put more pressure on those who pay.
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,743
In all likelihood, it's going to work in a way where a home location will validate a device if you've signed in to that device from home which will avoid the need to verify outside the home and a verification is going to be needed for devices that have not signed in from home. The extra charge will come in to play to bypass that extra step verification. Make no mistake though that whatever Netflix does to curb this, there are going to be edge cases that are impacted, but those edge cases are going to be in such a minority that Netflix probably doesn't care about that as the impact will be insignificant in their eyes caused by losing the edge cases.
If the only fallout from this is that I need to verify (2FA) when we are using Netflix in our secondary property then I can live with that. I just hope that is all that comes from this for me.
 

Hrodulf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,348
I mean, sharing has existed for as long as home video formats have. I didn't do it personally because I had a bad experience of someone stealing some of my games the one time I did it, but people shared games, music, movies, etc. with friends and family outside of their household all the time in the past. I don't see why it's a bad thing now just because "Netflix said so."

Personally speaking, I am essentially all digital at this point, but this kind of stuff is why the idea of an all digital future fucking sucks. Frankly, it hurts people who pay more than it hurts anyone else, and it's pretty gross that people are always blaming consumers for companies making their products worse.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,437
Thanks for proving my point. You just said one of the ways they can make more money is limiting the "sharing" aka stealing. So when they're looking at ways to make more money, that's an option that doesn't harm those who aren't breaking the ToS. As I said, the freeloaders put more pressure on those who pay.
They used loans and capital venture investments to put out a service at an unsustainable price to undercut and put out of business thousands of local rental shops, with the dream of becoming a monopoly, and you think it's the freeloaders putting pressure on those who pay?

They even had their marketing teams promote sharing (oh, sorry, "stealing") to get themselves into this position in order to throw thousands of rental stores out of business. You don't think that maybe it's Netflix's unethical actions which are putting pressure on those who pay?
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,163
They used loans and capital venture investments to put out a service at an unsustainable price to undercut and put out of business thousands of local rental shops, with the dream of becoming a monopoly, and you think it's the freeloaders putting pressure on those who pay?

They even had their marketing teams promote sharing (oh, sorry, "stealing") to get themselves into this position in order to throw thousands of rental stores out of business. You don't think that maybe it's Netflix's unethical actions which are putting pressure on those who pay?
I think it's obvious physical rental stores would be long dead by now, whether or not Netflix existed.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,294
Dark Space
I would immediately switch to the Standard tier if Netflix made this official.
Let me pay for 4k and 1 screen at like 5 bucks a month. I'll pay that. I'm not paying 15 for 4 screens when I can't share. That's fuckin bullshit
Yeah that's my issue; Netflix knows DAMN WELL why they tacked the extra screens onto the Premium tier to boost the price, and it wasn't so an entire family could watch 4 shows n 4 different rooms of the same house.

I'd love to see the analytics for how often they record such an instance.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,313
This isn't how it works, and corporate apologists in this thread are outright lying pretending that it is.

Netflix will do whatever they can to get more money out of customers without losing them. If they can limit account sharing, they'll do it. If they can raise the price, they'll do it. If they can limit account sharing AND raise the price, they'll do it.

When discussing stuff like this, no one at Netflix is going "oh great! We'll cut off account sharing and then we can cut the price of our service to compensate". No, they'll continue raising the sub price at the same rate they've always raised it at.

Saw the same shit when Sony raised the price of PS5 games to $70. Didn't stop them from putting scummy mtx practices in games like GT7

But this is actually a good thing for them being able to gauge what consumers think their subscription is worth.

If, let's say, 75% of subscribers are only subscribing because they can get it for a third of the cost via sharing, and those all go away, Netflix will have to reevaluate the cost of their services and how they're structured. Yes, maybe they can continue raising prices if there are a core group that will just never cancel but that seems like a spiral into the abyss.


Not following ToS and "stealing" are not the same thing.

Like... we pay for 4 streams. We are absolutely not stealing by watching those 4 streams. If the only way Netflix can become profitable is by piecemealing up those 4 streams in really arbitrary ways then maybe they shouldn't have spent so much venture capitalist money and loans to undercut and destroy movie rental businesses before figuring that shit out.

Do they have the right to enforce their TOS, which state that it's 4 streams in the same household? Of course they do. And if they prevent you from violating that that's ok. Just because they were lax on it before doesn't mean that they can't enforce it now. This is not corporate bootlicking. Of course all of us have the right to complain about it and cancel if we feel like the services rendered aren't worth the cost, and again that's a good thing because that's what will pressure them to change their service, their pricing, their decisions, or perish.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,996
Somebody has to have a moral backbone about following anti-consumer Terms of Service written by greedy corporations or else society will collapse under the weight of giving my grandma my password.

Freeloader grandma! I'm sure she also has Steam on her PC just to artificially inflate numbers

(people actually think this is a thing)

The more people who freeload, the more pressure it puts on those who pay.

And locking HD video with 4 simultaneous screens is anti-consumer to people who don't live with 3 other people, so it evens out

People defending consoles is weird, but streaming services is a new one lol
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,606
I would immediately switch to the Standard tier if Netflix made this official.

Yeah that's my issue; Netflix knows DAMN WELL why they tacked the extra screens onto the Premium tier to boost the price, and it wasn't so an entire family could watch 4 shows n 4 different rooms of the same house.

I'd love to see the analytics for how often they record such an instance.
Streaming is the new drug game, the first hit is free. The profit is always on the comeback. Have you smoking grandma's tv just to see Stranger Things
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,996
What is it about this place that constantly incorrectly uses the term "anti-consumer"?

They are the ONLY service who charges extra for HD, how is that not anti-consumer?

The definition is:

not favorable to consumers : improperly favoring the interests of businesses over the interests of consumers

Streaming is the new drug game, the first hit is free. The profit is always on the comeback. Have you smoking grandma's tv just to see Stranger Things

"Oh, I'm so happy you came to visi..."
"QUIET, SQUID GAME SEASON 2 IS OUT"
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,774
Nobody watches 4 streams at the same time in the same household. Netflix knows exactly what that option is for.

I am not aware of any other company that charges an extra fee for family plan members not physically living in the same house. People have cell phone family plans with others not living together. I pay for Apple One Premier and share it with my sisters who don't live with me, that includes AppleTV. As far as I am aware, Apple doesn't care as long as they are listed under Family Sharing.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,437
But this is actually a good thing for them being able to gauge what consumers think their subscription is worth.

If, let's say, 75% of subscribers are only subscribing because they can get it for a third of the cost via sharing, and those all go away, Netflix will have to reevaluate the cost of their services and how they're structured. Yes, maybe they can continue raising prices if there are a core group that will just never cancel but that seems like a spiral into the abyss.




Do they have the right to enforce their TOS, which state that it's 4 streams in the same household? Of course they do. And if they prevent you from violating that that's ok. Just because they were lax on it before doesn't mean that they can't enforce it now. This is not corporate bootlicking. Of course all of us have the right to complain about it and cancel if we feel like the services rendered aren't worth the cost, and again that's a good thing because that's what will pressure them to change their service, their pricing, their decisions, or perish.
They do have that right, and we'll stop our subscription and that's just normal customer-service business. We also should have the right to complain without being accused of "stealing" by fellow users.

Especially when their marketing team advertised and promoted password sharing, and they used that plus their financial position to undercut and destroy our local rental businesses. Only now that they've accomplished destroying all competing small businesses we're called "thieves" for letting my mom use the fourth stream that we pay for? That's not right.

If they want to change their service so we can't do that, for better or for worse, that's just services in a nutshell. But a particular user blaming other users for "pressure they put on other paying people" when there's all the harm Netflix has caused to get to this point is particularly disconnected from reality and inappropriate.
 

thenexus6

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,381
UK
Pushing closer to cancelling. Netflix is wild man.

Prices increase, pathetic 480p standard plan should not exist. Having to pay a premium for HD and 4K when it comes standard from other streaming companies, and now this BS.

Looking like I might just do a month a few times a year to catch up on the latest then pull the plug. Rinse and repeat.
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,743
Nobody watches 4 streams at the same time in the same household. Netflix knows exactly what that option is for.
I don't disagree that Netflix knows exactly why they added that tier, but some people do have multiple streams in the same household. I wouldn't say we have 4 concurrent streams that often, but 3 happens frequently enough.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,272
London
Nobody watches 4 streams at the same time in the same household. Netflix knows exactly what that option is for.

There are several pay TV providers internationally who offer more than four steams if you're in your house (usually when they control the router as they're the ISP), because they found a surprising amount of people do, indeed, use four. Or even six. I. Their own house.
 

Jokerman

Member
May 16, 2020
6,997
There are several pay TV providers internationally who offer more than four steams if you're in your house (usually when they control the router as they're the ISP), because they found a surprising amount of people do, indeed, use four. Or even six. I. Their own house.
6 people use Netflix at the same time in one house?
 

Radd Redd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,078
Nobody watches 4 streams at the same time in the same household. Netflix knows exactly what that option is for.

I am not aware of any other company that charges an extra fee for family plan members not physically living in the same house. People have cell phone family plans with others not living together. I pay for Apple One Premier and share it with my sisters who don't live with me, that includes AppleTV. As far as I am aware, Apple doesn't care as long as they are listed under Family Sharing.
Maybe not 4 but definitely 3 in my household. 3 bedrooms with 3 different people watching different things. Might not be Netflix sometimes.
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,743
6 people use Netflix at the same time in one house?
Yes, why not? Maybe not Netflix, but my kids and their friends/cousins routinely are all watching something different, even when in the same room. Of course, in this scenario only my kids are using our family account and the others are only using my Internet connection, but it is still common to have that many streams going at once.
 

erlim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,524
London
Most of my fellow broke millennials that I know just share passwords so we can handle the ever expanding amount of streaming platforms. I mean I feel bad having made my mom subscribe to AMC+ because I acted in a show on there.