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Variety: Inside Joss Whedon's "cutting" and "toxic" world of #Buffy and #Angel (EXCLUSIVE)
- Thread starter IDontBeatGames
- Start date
Let's hope so. Yet somehow I feel the industry will welcome him back in 5-10 years where he'll put out some indie film or short-run series that gets some attention. And then we'll start seeing articles like, "Were we too hard on Joss Whedon?"
Dunno. Maybe 5 years ago. Not in this climate. Toxic personalities are finally expendable to Hollywood.
He was honestly never so talented despite popular stuff that he couldn't be replaced. Shame, I liked his X-Men a lot, thought he might have a future in writing comics but he's shitty.
I know that it's not presented as such, but what I am seeing is people becoming more numb by the day to news like this. It has the opposite effect after a long time, I just think it becomes a "Well, Hollywood is fucked up", and that's it.
It becomes another avenue at generating shocking titles that are just as violent, due to the subject they depict. It's like a vicious circle of violence, never ending.
I personally have a hard time with it, and I have been sexually assaulted, violently physically assaulted and harassed psychologically. I'm all for other people victim speaking out. WHAT I'M CRITICIZING IS THE COVERAGE OF THESE EVENTS AND THE "ENTERTAINMENT" MACHINE THAT IT FEEDS.
He could also be better to some actors because they are all more famous/have better clout than his victims. I don't think he tried similiar shit with Cavill or Affleck like he did with Fisher.
Sort of. People who were supposedly canceled even a couple years ago are either making their way back into the industry or have already done so.
Maybe there wasn't any problems? Shitload of oversight from the House of Mouse, and I don't think Feige would play with that shit. Joss was probably on his best behavior since that was a comic nerd's dream gig so we only got to see his shitty antics through his characterization of Black Widow in Ultron.
his work has all been shit flops outside of the Avengers in the last century. I doubt he'll get that big a comeback.
By most accounts, the Avengers cast enjoyed working with Joss. It might be as simple as him not being an ass on that particular set.
Which would make sense, given the opportunity he was handed.
I do remember a story about him not enjoying the filming of Ultron much so it will be interesting if anything comes out from that.
It could be a case of Whedon cleaning up his act for the "Disney years" and then reverting back to being garbage during Justice League.
I hope so, but I have a very low opinion of the industry. Shit, Mel Gibson is still around.
I'm sure I'll get shit for this, but to be fair, nobody ever said Gibson was toxic to work with. In fact, people generally liked working with him. It's when he's not at work or getting work when he's a complete piece of shit.
Erm, lest we forget, there was a fellow named Harvey Weinstein that was doing his thing over the course of near half a century that everyone (a hyperbole -- but basically) in the industry knew about buut...
And Cosby and Michael Jackson and Brian Singer and Kevin Spacey....
Maybe they did and they are the ones being quoted anonymously? I'd be surprised if they had talked to some of those names and not James Marsters.
For what it's worth, James Marsters was on Michael Rosenbaum's podcast a while back and had a pretty shocking story about Whedon... but defended him repeatedly. Rosenbaum was like "Holy shit", reacting like most of us would, but Marsters kept defending him. I don't know if he was afraid to say negative things or if Whedon is just a guy whose behavior is borderline and it clicks with some people and clashes with others, but it's clear the allegations against him are true, at least, when even people who defend him have similar stories.
You need to watch some more shows. There is so much better more thoughtful stuff out there.
You want to list some? They taught college classes on Buffy, it's far from brain dead
The Wire, Six Feet Under, Band of Brothers, This is England, The expanse, The leftovers, The Sorpanos, Legion, The shield, Boardwalk Empire, Euphoria, Carnivale, Hand Maiden's Tale...............
And there are a lot of college classes about stupid things.
https://www.ranker.com/list/stupidest-college-courses/samantha-dillinger
Ehhhh, I would not place Six Feet or Handmaid's particularly highly... Also, Carnivale being cancelled at end of season 2 (3 seasons too early) kinda hurts it.
But to add to the list, Counterpart, Halt and Catch Fire, Pushing Daisies, Hannibal, True Detective season 1, Little Drummer Girl.
I was just quickly listing shows more worth the person's time than Buffy/Angel or anything Whedonverse.
Agree with all your picks.
My running theory is this: Joss Whedon made a name for himself in the TV world, but TV has been historically been viewed as lower class than movies in Hollywood. So when the Avengers opportunity came, Whedon at least had enough self-awareness to know he could not fuck around (perhaps both literally and figuratively) on a big set like a Disney/Marvel production.
But then Avengers does gangbusters and Joss is hailed as King of TV and superhero movies so when he is brought onboard for the JLA movie, he thinks he now has the clout to be his asshole self again.
I would agree with this theory but add on that think Joss was an asshole before he even got into showbusiness.
Haha for real.
I'm curious how he would've pulled this same shit on Justice League since, like, you're not going to get away with pitting Ben Affleck and Gal Gadot against each other. Unless his behavior on JL was something else entirely.
I've seen a good chunk of those shows and I prefer Buffy/Angel by far to everything you listed, though I do love Sopranos and The Wire. I'm big into vampire and genre stuff
Fair enough. I'm not going to argue taste with anybody but... oy. There are at tons of Vampire focused shows better than Buffy and Angel.
EDIT: I will say Angel was a whole lot better structured and written then Buffy in the beginning. That was probably because David Greenwalt was running the writer's room.
Gotta highly disagree with that. The highs of Buffy and Angel are unmatched imo
I am not sure why we are surprised at him being an asshole and getting away with it. He's not stupid, he knows what he can pull on set with a resurgent Robert Downy Jr getting big Marvel bucks vs a CW show with the execs happy to have a show with any sort of following. It's not as if a writer who suffered working for him for two years runs in the same circle as the suits that hired him to work Justice League. Hell, its not surprising that Ray Fisher has these stories and Ben Affleck might have completely different experiences. And while he's had some misses in his career, a dude who gets to consistently direct Hollywood blockbusers has enourmous pull. These are sets with dozens and dozens of people walking around with multiple locations on set.
If you mention the Wire, it should be noted that Buffy was a big inspiration for that show. David Simon himself is on record saying it's the better show of the two. I don't agree, but I also don't think the gap between them is as wide as you imply.
Whedon is an absolute ass, but that doesn't mean his show is bad. That's part of what hurts about this. It's like how David Bowie made fantastic songs, but I can never not think of him actively picking up 14 year old girls when I hear them.
There are? Do tell. I can't think of any.
Yeah, same. Joss fucking sucks, and at this point I gotta believe the success and impact of those two shows were due to way more people than just him
A man who thinks being mean is funny and is described as "casually cruel"? Oh yeah, I know that type alright. Dirtbags that get off on being able to treat people with less authority than them like shit.
I can certainly appreciate why SMG doesn't want to talk about her experiences on Buffy. Sounds like the sort of thing you want to put behind you and never look back. Those 21 hour days would've hit her the hardest given she was on camera the most. I can't imagine Whedon made life easy for her at all, especially since she wasn't part of his inner circle despite being the star.
I can certainly appreciate why SMG doesn't want to talk about her experiences on Buffy. Sounds like the sort of thing you want to put behind you and never look back. Those 21 hour days would've hit her the hardest given she was on camera the most. I can't imagine Whedon made life easy for her at all, especially since she wasn't part of his inner circle despite being the star.
I saw him once at San Diego Comic Con and while the crowd was going crazy, I just could not get over the greasy, creepy vibe he gave off. Prior to this I was a big fan. I guess it all makes sense now. The more that this gets out, the better, so people won't enable fuckers like this anymore.
I'm not sure he could have. Pretty much everyone on that movie is a bigger deal in Hollywood than Whedon and much more influential than him regardless of the fact he wrote and directed Avengers.
The only person he could've made miserable was, you guessed it, Ray Fisher.
Moonlight only ran for one season, but it was by far my favorite vampire show that I had seen.
It seems on Justice League he had cover for his behaviour because of Geoff Johns and Jon Berg. Both of whom are also now pretty much persona non grata
Knowing what a tight leash Feige and his team have on MCU movies Whedon knew he couldn't fuck around on those sets. Neither could he pick out an actor to mess with.
Imagine this Gump trying to mess with someone like Samuel L Jackson.
joss whedon is disappointing as fuck.
I wonder if that buffy reboot or whatever is still happening. if so, his involvement, if any, needs to be dropped.
I wonder if that buffy reboot or whatever is still happening. if so, his involvement, if any, needs to be dropped.
Like I said I can't argue taste with people as Tase is allowed to like who they like. I watched Buffy, I watched Angel, I watched Firefly. Didn't watch Doll House. I am one of the few people who likes 'Alien Resurrection' which Joss wrote. I tried a rewatch of Buffe-verse stuff a few years back and found it didn't age well FOR ME at all. I don't like the way Joss writes as a 36 year old person and I'm sure my 14 year old self would argue otherwise so I'm not denying that as a kid i was into it, I don't erase history. It just isn't very good to me now, in 2021. Learning about what a piece of shit Joss was first hand years okay as a young writer I'm sure colored this opinion but still the writing still hasn't aged well.
Just going to cut you off here. Whedon did a lot of script doctoring for movies both good and bad. Just a quick search and he worked on Waterworld, Speed, Toy Story, X-Men, Titan AE, Twister, Alien Resurrection, Serenity (from a TV show that only ran one season). I mean, the guy was known in hollywood circles beyond TV.
He's still an utter piece of shit.
I don't disagree, but almost all of those were out after Buffy/Angel
Great article, although nothing really new, it links together everything we know and all the fishy stuff that has been made public about him(including Gadot's feedback which, to my knowledge, was avoided in discussions here in ERA or never really discussed)
Also , Whedon seems like the classic asshole in the workplace who kiss the boots of the people above him while he treats all below him in a miserable manner. Insecure fuck.
Also , Whedon seems like the classic asshole in the workplace who kiss the boots of the people above him while he treats all below him in a miserable manner. Insecure fuck.
