• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Vanity Fair Reporter: Benioff and Weiss Were Out from Star Wars Before Netflix Deal [UPDATE: Variety Reports That It Was After]

Reader mode
Halbrand

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,615
The results have been good but the amount of major production issues with these movies is insane
 
Rob

Rob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,079
SATX
But why? Was it a result of the ending of GoT? Or was their pre-production stuff not quite up to quality?
 
Surfinn

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
There is so much goddamn conflicting reporting. Making Star Wars said D&D leaving was mutual and that it was the most "amicable" of all the departures.. then we get a HWR reporter saying Netflix planned around D&D's SW projects (implying there was no conflicting scheduling), now we have a Vanity Fair reporter saying "no, actually, they got canned before Netflix"

Which is it

Also, at the end of the day, the Disney SW movies are 1.1 billion WW on average, even with Solo
 
Gustaf

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
Surfinn said:
There is so much goddamn conflicting reporting. Making Star Wars said D&D leaving was mutual and that it was the most "amicable" of all the departures.. then we get a HWR reporter saying Netflix planned around D&D's SW projects (implying there was no conflicting scheduling), now we have a Vanity Fair reporter saying "no, actually, they got canned before Netflix"

Which is it

Also, at the end of the day, the Disney SW movies are 1.1 billion WW on average, even with Solo
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


love the last part of this post, so non sequitur
 
krazen

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,123
Gentrified Brooklyn
While Feige can 'right' this ship into making money, more and more I don't know if he's the right person for this job. Honestly they need new and different takes on the Universe, not someone who knows how to wrangle disparate storylines into a whole. I have no doubt under his stewardship you will have a consistent number of good movies, but you probably won't have GREAT ones.

I blame the fanbases. While comic nerds are as insane, it seems they've been more open with risks as long as it ends up in a quality product and captures the spirit of the source material (probably because those dark decades of mediocre movies has tempered their expectations and taught them to think outside of the box). Star wars nerds? KEEP TO THE CANON OR DIE IN A FUCKING FIRE, SKYWALKERS 4 EVA
 
Gustaf

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
Surfinn said:
.. I didn't imply it had anything to do with the other part of my posts. It was in regard to people suggesting Disney SW hasn't been doing well. The fuck
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

chill man, is not an attack or anything, it's just that i love non sequiturs, and that one was great,

like, whatever the circumstances of the departing of these two, star wars movies have been very sucesfull
 
spootime

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,429
krazen said:
While Feige can 'right' this ship into making money, more and more I don't know if he's the right person for this job. Honestly they need new and different takes on the Universe, not someone who knows how to wrangle disparate storylines into a whole. I have no doubt under his stewardship you will have a consistent number of good movies, but you probably won't have GREAT ones.

I blame the fanbases. While comic nerds are as insane, it seems they've been more open with risks as long as it ends up in a quality product and captures the spirit of the source material (probably because those dark decades of mediocre movies has tempered their expectations and taught them to think outside of the box). Star wars nerds? KEEP TO THE CANON OR DIE IN A FUCKING FIRE, SKYWALKERS 4 EVA
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yup, I don't want feige anywhere near it and I don't want a unified storyline. Let rian make a trilogy 400 years in the past or something.
 
HardTimesFamilyPride

HardTimesFamilyPride

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
Gustaf said:
if all they care is money, the empire would have payed up more handsomely

so still doesn't makes sense, why would they have issues with the empire? the empire is their employer!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And Rome employed the mercenary groups who ended up sacking it

Hell the fourth crusade ended up basically being one huge clusterfuck of mercenaries attacking the people who paid them and/or the groups they were supposed to be protecting

IIRC Solo featured Woody Harrelson's crew being mercenaries who were employed by the Empire, and then... taking a job against the Empire

We don't know the plot of that version of R1 though so it's not like we can accurately gauge what they were going for anyway. What was stated implied they were doing one thing and happened to find the Death Star plans somehow. We just don't know (unless you know, then I want a link!!).
 
Last edited:
Joeytj

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,673
BDS said:
Assorted issues and troubles under Lucasfilm in the last seven years
Movies
  • With one exception (TLJ), every single film produced has had significant production issues:
    • The Force Awakens had a very rushed, rocky production. Multiple script drafts were written and thrown out. The final script was written just weeks before filming. The film's planned May 2015 release date was so tight that JJ Abrams practically threatened to quit if it wasn't delayed (to Kennedy's credit, she supposedly backed him on this when they demanded a delay from Iger). The decision was made to make a film that very closely echoes the original trilogy, abandoning any creative worldbuilding to instead create what is essentially the same foundation the OT was built on, leaving limited opportunity for follow-up storytelling. Because the movie was a huge success, Lucasfilm learned nothing from the mistakes they made and ended up repeating them several more times
    • Rogue One was rewritten like fifteen times, including during post-production. Massive reshoots resulted in a third of the movie (or more) being reshot just months before release. The original director was effectively fired and replaced during editing. The original premise (bounty hunters and mercenaries must work together on an espionage mission that leads to the discovery of the Death Star plans) was scrapped in favor of a more traditional, OT-friendly, creatively stagnant Rebels vs Empire plot
    • Solo existed essentially as a contractual requirement for Lawrence Kasdan's involvement in TFA. Despite overwhelming lack of interest apparent as early as the film's announcement in 2015, Lucasfilm bored full-steam ahead with production on a very misguided film. An actor who does not resemble Harrison Ford at all was cast as the iconic Han Solo character. Two improvisational comedy directors were hired and then fired (for being behind schedule and too improvisational) after two thirds of the film had already been shot, necessitating one of the biggest reshoot operations in Hollywood blockbuster history as Ron Howard came in to reshoot nearly the entire film. Despite the terrible PR around the film, extremely rushed schedule, and controversy around TLJ, Lucasfilm made the hilariously misguided decision to release the film in May instead of December, where it was promptly creamed at the box office in one of the biggest financial flops ever
    • The Rise of Skywalker was in full pre-production mode when the decision was suddenly made to release director Colin Trevorrow, necessitating a complete rewrite, from scratch, of the film's script just months before production was set to begin. Abrams was brought back in at the last minute to direct. Actual production, once it got underway, seems to have gone generally smoothly
  • Numerous other directors have been hired and fired, and their projects cancelled, sometimes after significant pre-production work had already been completed. These include Josh Trank's Boba Fett film, James Mangold's Boba Fett film, Stephen Daldry's Obi-Wan movie, and now David Benioff and DB Weiss's entire trilogy. Rian Johnson's announced films remain MIA
  • Despite a commitment to diversity, every single person hired (and/or fired) to write or direct a Disney-era Star Wars film under Kennedy has been a white man. Many of these white men had never directed a blockbuster before. Some hires -- most notably Trank, Trevorrow, and D&D -- were particularly controversial due to their poor critical track records, indicating that they were hired for "star power" and not quality
  • The Last Jedi made a lot of money. Disney probably wanted it to make more money. That's where I'll leave that endless discussion
Television
  • Almost immediately after the Disney purchase, the decision was made to cancel The Clone Wars, a critically acclaimed and generally popular animated show, leaving all of its storylines unfinished. It was replaced with Star Wars Rebels, a show that had obviously inferior production values, indicating the decision-making was based on cost and not quality
  • Following the end of Rebels (which ended up winning people over), Lucasfilm followed it up with Star Wars Resistance, a very child-friendly series with even lower quality animation and production values. The series was universally criticized and appears not to have found much of an audience. It is being concluded after only two seasons
Wider expanded universe in general
  • It is generally agreed that the current "expanded universe" is significantly more stagnant creatively than the old EU. The vast majority of stories take place in the OT era. Every single story is required to be overseen by the Lucasfilm Story Group, who provide notes and guidance and result in a committee-created feel to much of the EU. Most of the novels and comics feature existing Star Wars characters instead of original storylines and plots, preventing full creativity
Video games
  • The disastrous decision was made to give the entire Star Wars IP license to a single company for ten years. That company, EA, has only released three games in the span of 2013-2021, two of which were critical and commercial underperformers and the third has yet to be released. Several games in development have been cancelled after years of work had already been put into them
  • Industry gossip suggests that the Lucasfilm Story Group's close watch over these stories and games has played a significant role in the problems EA has experienced
Merchandising
  • Toy sales in general are down (kids and their damn vidya games) but Star Wars merchandise in particular has suffered from a lack of interesting and creative designs from the new films
  • Various assorted controversies regarding toys of female and PoC characters (#WheresRey during TFA, #WheresRose during TROS, etc)
Star Wars is still in a decent place; we've got creative stories featuring original characters like the Mandalorian and some of the books and comics, but there is obviously some serious cracks in Lucasfilm's production strategy across all fronts, and the buck stops at Kennedy's desk. I didn't include Galaxy's Edge because those issues are mostly from Disney Parks & Resorts and not Lucasfilm.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

A lot of this criticism is fair, although as you say, not everything is because of decisions from Lucasfilm, especially the video games and the parks. And I don't agree with criticism of the the new canon EU. I personally find it overall great, as there has been some very good to excellent new stories and characters pop up, at a very good pace even compared to the old non-centralized EU. To a lot of fans, like me, having a centralized and mostly consistent canon helps fans to dive easier into the comics and novels and makes me care more about them than the old EU, where things were contradicted all by the movies and other EU material all the time.
 
Jexhius

Jexhius

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
965
This always seemed likely, so it's not too surprising to read this report.

For the record, Joanna Robinson is an excellent reporter who covered GoT extremely closely for years, I trust her on this.
 
CrichtonKicks

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,183
Yerba_Sutra said:
I heard Kasdan wasn't a fan of doing much of any of this stuff (thus why he got to do Solo for jumping on TFA) and was ornery about it all from the start. And not surprising that L&M got behind schedule but man Lucasfilm had a really tight schedule for this stretch of films. I'd be interested in reading about the Kasdan/L&M struggles if you got a link!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Two different schedules. L&M were behind on filming schedule- filming is incredibly expensive per day so when a director goes too slow it results in huge unbudgeted cost overruns. And can create other issues if their top level talent had follow on projects waiting for filming to complete (hence Bettany having to step in for Michael K Williams).

The actual production schedule for Solo was just fine, even given the accelerated franchise release slate. It was so good that there was time for Ron Howard to remake almost the entire movie and they still hit the original release date and no visible seems on the post production from being rushed.

Lifejumper said:
Wonder if this dude is being fed with fake information.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think both can be true. I've felt for a long time that D&D have been having second thoughts anyway. Most creators probably don't want to finish something as time consuming as GoT just to jump into an equally high profile franchise where they will still be under incredible scrutiny. On top of that, they are far more valuable on TV than movies. Disney wasn't going to give them remotely close to $200 million for a series of Star Wars movies.

I doubt they protested in the slightest when given even a gentle shove (especially since they likely still got paid to an extent).
 
ryutaro's mama

ryutaro's mama

Member
Dec 12, 2017
9,686
BDS said:
Assorted issues and troubles under Lucasfilm in the last seven years
Movies
  • With one exception (TLJ), every single film produced has had significant production issues:
    • The Force Awakens had a very rushed, rocky production. Multiple script drafts were written and thrown out. The final script was written just weeks before filming. The film's planned May 2015 release date was so tight that JJ Abrams practically threatened to quit if it wasn't delayed (to Kennedy's credit, she supposedly backed him on this when they demanded a delay from Iger). The decision was made to make a film that very closely echoes the original trilogy, abandoning any creative worldbuilding to instead create what is essentially the same foundation the OT was built on, leaving limited opportunity for follow-up storytelling. Because the movie was a huge success, Lucasfilm learned nothing from the mistakes they made and ended up repeating them several more times
    • Rogue One was rewritten like fifteen times, including during post-production. Massive reshoots resulted in a third of the movie (or more) being reshot just months before release. The original director was effectively fired and replaced during editing. The original premise (bounty hunters and mercenaries must work together on an espionage mission that leads to the discovery of the Death Star plans) was scrapped in favor of a more traditional, OT-friendly, creatively stagnant Rebels vs Empire plot
    • Solo existed essentially as a contractual requirement for Lawrence Kasdan's involvement in TFA. Despite overwhelming lack of interest apparent as early as the film's announcement in 2015, Lucasfilm bored full-steam ahead with production on a very misguided film. An actor who does not resemble Harrison Ford at all was cast as the iconic Han Solo character. Two improvisational comedy directors were hired and then fired (for being behind schedule and too improvisational) after two thirds of the film had already been shot, necessitating one of the biggest reshoot operations in Hollywood blockbuster history as Ron Howard came in to reshoot nearly the entire film. Despite the terrible PR around the film, extremely rushed schedule, and controversy around TLJ, Lucasfilm made the hilariously misguided decision to release the film in May instead of December, where it was promptly creamed at the box office in one of the biggest financial flops ever
    • The Rise of Skywalker was in full pre-production mode when the decision was suddenly made to release director Colin Trevorrow, necessitating a complete rewrite, from scratch, of the film's script just months before production was set to begin. Abrams was brought back in at the last minute to direct. Actual production, once it got underway, seems to have gone generally smoothly
  • Numerous other directors have been hired and fired, and their projects cancelled, sometimes after significant pre-production work had already been completed. These include Josh Trank's Boba Fett film, James Mangold's Boba Fett film, Stephen Daldry's Obi-Wan movie, and now David Benioff and DB Weiss's entire trilogy. Rian Johnson's announced films remain MIA
  • Despite a commitment to diversity, every single person hired (and/or fired) to write or direct a Disney-era Star Wars film under Kennedy has been a white man. Many of these white men had never directed a blockbuster before. Some hires -- most notably Trank, Trevorrow, and D&D -- were particularly controversial due to their poor critical track records, indicating that they were hired for "star power" and not quality
  • The Last Jedi made a lot of money. Disney probably wanted it to make more money. That's where I'll leave that endless discussion
Television
  • Almost immediately after the Disney purchase, the decision was made to cancel The Clone Wars, a critically acclaimed and generally popular animated show, leaving all of its storylines unfinished. It was replaced with Star Wars Rebels, a show that had obviously inferior production values, indicating the decision-making was based on cost and not quality
  • Following the end of Rebels (which ended up winning people over), Lucasfilm followed it up with Star Wars Resistance, a very child-friendly series with even lower quality animation and production values. The series was universally criticized and appears not to have found much of an audience. It is being concluded after only two seasons
Wider expanded universe in general
  • It is generally agreed that the current "expanded universe" is significantly more stagnant creatively than the old EU. The vast majority of stories take place in the OT era. Every single story is required to be overseen by the Lucasfilm Story Group, who provide notes and guidance and result in a committee-created feel to much of the EU. Most of the novels and comics feature existing Star Wars characters instead of original storylines and plots, preventing full creativity
Video games
  • The disastrous decision was made to give the entire Star Wars IP license to a single company for ten years. That company, EA, has only released three games in the span of 2013-2021, two of which were critical and commercial underperformers and the third has yet to be released. Several games in development have been cancelled after years of work had already been put into them
  • Industry gossip suggests that the Lucasfilm Story Group's close watch over these stories and games has played a significant role in the problems EA has experienced
Merchandising
  • Toy sales in general are down (kids and their damn vidya games) but Star Wars merchandise in particular has suffered from a lack of interesting and creative designs from the new films
  • Various assorted controversies regarding toys of female and PoC characters (#WheresRey during TFA, #WheresRose during TROS, etc)
Star Wars is still in a decent place; we've got creative stories featuring original characters like the Mandalorian and some of the books and comics, but there is obviously some serious cracks in Lucasfilm's production strategy across all fronts, and the buck stops at Kennedy's desk. I didn't include Galaxy's Edge because those issues are mostly from Disney Parks & Resorts and not Lucasfilm.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thanks for this post. I forgot about a lot of it.
 
El Bombastico

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,033
BDS said:
Assorted issues and troubles under Lucasfilm in the last seven years
Movies
  • With one exception (TLJ), every single film produced has had significant production issues:
    • The Force Awakens had a very rushed, rocky production. Multiple script drafts were written and thrown out. The final script was written just weeks before filming. The film's planned May 2015 release date was so tight that JJ Abrams practically threatened to quit if it wasn't delayed (to Kennedy's credit, she supposedly backed him on this when they demanded a delay from Iger). The decision was made to make a film that very closely echoes the original trilogy, abandoning any creative worldbuilding to instead create what is essentially the same foundation the OT was built on, leaving limited opportunity for follow-up storytelling. Because the movie was a huge success, Lucasfilm learned nothing from the mistakes they made and ended up repeating them several more times
    • Rogue One was rewritten like fifteen times, including during post-production. Massive reshoots resulted in a third of the movie (or more) being reshot just months before release. The original director was effectively fired and replaced during editing. The original premise (bounty hunters and mercenaries must work together on an espionage mission that leads to the discovery of the Death Star plans) was scrapped in favor of a more traditional, OT-friendly, creatively stagnant Rebels vs Empire plot
    • Solo existed essentially as a contractual requirement for Lawrence Kasdan's involvement in TFA. Despite overwhelming lack of interest apparent as early as the film's announcement in 2015, Lucasfilm bored full-steam ahead with production on a very misguided film. An actor who does not resemble Harrison Ford at all was cast as the iconic Han Solo character. Two improvisational comedy directors were hired and then fired (for being behind schedule and too improvisational) after two thirds of the film had already been shot, necessitating one of the biggest reshoot operations in Hollywood blockbuster history as Ron Howard came in to reshoot nearly the entire film. Despite the terrible PR around the film, extremely rushed schedule, and controversy around TLJ, Lucasfilm made the hilariously misguided decision to release the film in May instead of December, where it was promptly creamed at the box office in one of the biggest financial flops ever
    • The Rise of Skywalker was in full pre-production mode when the decision was suddenly made to release director Colin Trevorrow, necessitating a complete rewrite, from scratch, of the film's script just months before production was set to begin. Abrams was brought back in at the last minute to direct. Actual production, once it got underway, seems to have gone generally smoothly
  • Numerous other directors have been hired and fired, and their projects cancelled, sometimes after significant pre-production work had already been completed. These include Josh Trank's Boba Fett film, James Mangold's Boba Fett film, Stephen Daldry's Obi-Wan movie, and now David Benioff and DB Weiss's entire trilogy. Rian Johnson's announced films remain MIA
  • Despite a commitment to diversity, every single person hired (and/or fired) to write or direct a Disney-era Star Wars film under Kennedy has been a white man. Many of these white men had never directed a blockbuster before. Some hires -- most notably Trank, Trevorrow, and D&D -- were particularly controversial due to their poor critical track records, indicating that they were hired for "star power" and not quality
  • The Last Jedi made a lot of money. Disney probably wanted it to make more money. That's where I'll leave that endless discussion
Television
  • Almost immediately after the Disney purchase, the decision was made to cancel The Clone Wars, a critically acclaimed and generally popular animated show, leaving all of its storylines unfinished. It was replaced with Star Wars Rebels, a show that had obviously inferior production values, indicating the decision-making was based on cost and not quality
  • Following the end of Rebels (which ended up winning people over), Lucasfilm followed it up with Star Wars Resistance, a very child-friendly series with even lower quality animation and production values. The series was universally criticized and appears not to have found much of an audience. It is being concluded after only two seasons
Wider expanded universe in general
  • It is generally agreed that the current "expanded universe" is significantly more stagnant creatively than the old EU. The vast majority of stories take place in the OT era. Every single story is required to be overseen by the Lucasfilm Story Group, who provide notes and guidance and result in a committee-created feel to much of the EU. Most of the novels and comics feature existing Star Wars characters instead of original storylines and plots, preventing full creativity
Video games
  • The disastrous decision was made to give the entire Star Wars IP license to a single company for ten years. That company, EA, has only released three games in the span of 2013-2021, two of which were critical and commercial underperformers and the third has yet to be released. Several games in development have been cancelled after years of work had already been put into them
  • Industry gossip suggests that the Lucasfilm Story Group's close watch over these stories and games has played a significant role in the problems EA has experienced
Merchandising
  • Toy sales in general are down (kids and their damn vidya games) but Star Wars merchandise in particular has suffered from a lack of interesting and creative designs from the new films
  • Various assorted controversies regarding toys of female and PoC characters (#WheresRey during TFA, #WheresRose during TROS, etc)
Star Wars is still in a decent place; we've got creative stories featuring original characters like the Mandalorian and some of the books and comics, but there is obviously some serious cracks in Lucasfilm's production strategy across all fronts, and the buck stops at Kennedy's desk. I didn't include Galaxy's Edge because those issues are mostly from Disney Parks & Resorts and not Lucasfilm.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I didn't realize it was that bad, wow.
 
Tace

Tace

Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
35,471
The Rapscallion
I wouldn't be surprised if this ended up be true. GoT died for nothing. I am so curious to see what Feige's project ends up looking like. I think/hope he'll make a conscious effort to still have it feel like Star Wars
 
Surfinn

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
CrichtonKicks said:
Two different schedules. L&M were behind on filming schedule- filming is incredibly expensive per day so when a director goes too slow it results in huge unbudgeted cost overruns. And can create other issues if their top level talent had follow on projects waiting for filming to complete (hence Bettany having to step in for Michael K Williams).

The actual production schedule for Solo was just fine, even given the accelerated franchise release slate. It was so good that there was time for Ron Howard to remake almost the entire movie and they still hit the original release date and no visible seems on the post production from being rushed.



I think both can be true. I've felt for a long time that D&D have been having second thoughts anyway. Most creators probably don't want to finish something as time consuming as GoT just to jump into an equally high profile franchise where they will still be under incredible scrutiny. On top of that, they are far more valuable on TV than movies. Disney wasn't going to give them remotely close to $200 million for a series of Star Wars movies.

I doubt they protested in the slightest when given even a gentle shove (especially since they likely still got paid to an extent).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
MSW said it was just competing corporations that forced the departure. How can that be true if they left in May?
MSW said:
A source says the Benioff and Weiss situation was the most amicable of the departures and the bad blood is between the corporations with this one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Vanity Fair reporter claims reactions and commentary in regard to GoT was a factor in D&D being dropped.

So who got it wrong?
 
CrichtonKicks

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,183
GoT didn't die for anything. I think D&D wanted off that train no matter what. That's a long time for any showrunners with a production that complex and no writer's room.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,304
BDS said:
Assorted issues and troubles under Lucasfilm in the last seven years
Movies
  • With one exception (TLJ), every single film produced has had significant production issues:
    • The Force Awakens had a very rushed, rocky production. Multiple script drafts were written and thrown out. The final script was written just weeks before filming. The film's planned May 2015 release date was so tight that JJ Abrams practically threatened to quit if it wasn't delayed (to Kennedy's credit, she supposedly backed him on this when they demanded a delay from Iger). The decision was made to make a film that very closely echoes the original trilogy, abandoning any creative worldbuilding to instead create what is essentially the same foundation the OT was built on, leaving limited opportunity for follow-up storytelling. Because the movie was a huge success, Lucasfilm learned nothing from the mistakes they made and ended up repeating them several more times
    • Rogue One was rewritten like fifteen times, including during post-production. Massive reshoots resulted in a third of the movie (or more) being reshot just months before release. The original director was effectively fired and replaced during editing. The original premise (bounty hunters and mercenaries must work together on an espionage mission that leads to the discovery of the Death Star plans) was scrapped in favor of a more traditional, OT-friendly, creatively stagnant Rebels vs Empire plot
    • Solo existed essentially as a contractual requirement for Lawrence Kasdan's involvement in TFA. Despite overwhelming lack of interest apparent as early as the film's announcement in 2015, Lucasfilm bored full-steam ahead with production on a very misguided film. An actor who does not resemble Harrison Ford at all was cast as the iconic Han Solo character. Two improvisational comedy directors were hired and then fired (for being behind schedule and too improvisational) after two thirds of the film had already been shot, necessitating one of the biggest reshoot operations in Hollywood blockbuster history as Ron Howard came in to reshoot nearly the entire film. Despite the terrible PR around the film, extremely rushed schedule, and controversy around TLJ, Lucasfilm made the hilariously misguided decision to release the film in May instead of December, where it was promptly creamed at the box office in one of the biggest financial flops ever
    • The Rise of Skywalker was in full pre-production mode when the decision was suddenly made to release director Colin Trevorrow, necessitating a complete rewrite, from scratch, of the film's script just months before production was set to begin. Abrams was brought back in at the last minute to direct. Actual production, once it got underway, seems to have gone generally smoothly
  • Numerous other directors have been hired and fired, and their projects cancelled, sometimes after significant pre-production work had already been completed. These include Josh Trank's Boba Fett film, James Mangold's Boba Fett film, Stephen Daldry's Obi-Wan movie, and now David Benioff and DB Weiss's entire trilogy. Rian Johnson's announced films remain MIA
  • Despite a commitment to diversity, every single person hired (and/or fired) to write or direct a Disney-era Star Wars film under Kennedy has been a white man. Many of these white men had never directed a blockbuster before. Some hires -- most notably Trank, Trevorrow, and D&D -- were particularly controversial due to their poor critical track records, indicating that they were hired for "star power" and not quality
  • The Last Jedi made a lot of money. Disney probably wanted it to make more money. That's where I'll leave that endless discussion
Television
  • Almost immediately after the Disney purchase, the decision was made to cancel The Clone Wars, a critically acclaimed and generally popular animated show, leaving all of its storylines unfinished. It was replaced with Star Wars Rebels, a show that had obviously inferior production values, indicating the decision-making was based on cost and not quality
  • Following the end of Rebels (which ended up winning people over), Lucasfilm followed it up with Star Wars Resistance, a very child-friendly series with even lower quality animation and production values. The series was universally criticized and appears not to have found much of an audience. It is being concluded after only two seasons
Wider expanded universe in general
  • It is generally agreed that the current "expanded universe" is significantly more stagnant creatively than the old EU. The vast majority of stories take place in the OT era. Every single story is required to be overseen by the Lucasfilm Story Group, who provide notes and guidance and result in a committee-created feel to much of the EU. Most of the novels and comics feature existing Star Wars characters instead of original storylines and plots, preventing full creativity
Video games
  • The disastrous decision was made to give the entire Star Wars IP license to a single company for ten years. That company, EA, has only released three games in the span of 2013-2021, two of which were critical and commercial underperformers and the third has yet to be released. Several games in development have been cancelled after years of work had already been put into them
  • Industry gossip suggests that the Lucasfilm Story Group's close watch over these stories and games has played a significant role in the problems EA has experienced
Merchandising
  • Toy sales in general are down (kids and their damn vidya games) but Star Wars merchandise in particular has suffered from a lack of interesting and creative designs from the new films
  • Various assorted controversies regarding toys of female and PoC characters (#WheresRey during TFA, #WheresRose during TROS, etc)
Star Wars is still in a decent place; we've got creative stories featuring original characters like the Mandalorian and some of the books and comics, but there is obviously some serious cracks in Lucasfilm's production strategy across all fronts, and the buck stops at Kennedy's desk. I didn't include Galaxy's Edge because those issues are mostly from Disney Parks & Resorts and not Lucasfilm.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Your issue isn't framing "it's not complete yet oringinal and unique" as an inherent objective negative and indication of problems. That's a completely subjective thing being framed as a production issue.
 
Ignatz Mouse

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
BDS said:
Assorted issues and troubles under Lucasfilm in the last seven years
Movies
  • With one exception (TLJ), every single film produced has had significant production issues:
    • The Force Awakens had a very rushed, rocky production. Multiple script drafts were written and thrown out. The final script was written just weeks before filming. The film's planned May 2015 release date was so tight that JJ Abrams practically threatened to quit if it wasn't delayed (to Kennedy's credit, she supposedly backed him on this when they demanded a delay from Iger). The decision was made to make a film that very closely echoes the original trilogy, abandoning any creative worldbuilding to instead create what is essentially the same foundation the OT was built on, leaving limited opportunity for follow-up storytelling. Because the movie was a huge success, Lucasfilm learned nothing from the mistakes they made and ended up repeating them several more times
    • Rogue One was rewritten like fifteen times, including during post-production. Massive reshoots resulted in a third of the movie (or more) being reshot just months before release. The original director was effectively fired and replaced during editing. The original premise (bounty hunters and mercenaries must work together on an espionage mission that leads to the discovery of the Death Star plans) was scrapped in favor of a more traditional, OT-friendly, creatively stagnant Rebels vs Empire plot
    • Solo existed essentially as a contractual requirement for Lawrence Kasdan's involvement in TFA. Despite overwhelming lack of interest apparent as early as the film's announcement in 2015, Lucasfilm bored full-steam ahead with production on a very misguided film. An actor who does not resemble Harrison Ford at all was cast as the iconic Han Solo character. Two improvisational comedy directors were hired and then fired (for being behind schedule and too improvisational) after two thirds of the film had already been shot, necessitating one of the biggest reshoot operations in Hollywood blockbuster history as Ron Howard came in to reshoot nearly the entire film. Despite the terrible PR around the film, extremely rushed schedule, and controversy around TLJ, Lucasfilm made the hilariously misguided decision to release the film in May instead of December, where it was promptly creamed at the box office in one of the biggest financial flops ever
    • The Rise of Skywalker was in full pre-production mode when the decision was suddenly made to release director Colin Trevorrow, necessitating a complete rewrite, from scratch, of the film's script just months before production was set to begin. Abrams was brought back in at the last minute to direct. Actual production, once it got underway, seems to have gone generally smoothly
  • Numerous other directors have been hired and fired, and their projects cancelled, sometimes after significant pre-production work had already been completed. These include Josh Trank's Boba Fett film, James Mangold's Boba Fett film, Stephen Daldry's Obi-Wan movie, and now David Benioff and DB Weiss's entire trilogy. Rian Johnson's announced films remain MIA
  • Despite a commitment to diversity, every single person hired (and/or fired) to write or direct a Disney-era Star Wars film under Kennedy has been a white man. Many of these white men had never directed a blockbuster before. Some hires -- most notably Trank, Trevorrow, and D&D -- were particularly controversial due to their poor critical track records, indicating that they were hired for "star power" and not quality
  • The Last Jedi made a lot of money. Disney probably wanted it to make more money. That's where I'll leave that endless discussion
Television
  • Almost immediately after the Disney purchase, the decision was made to cancel The Clone Wars, a critically acclaimed and generally popular animated show, leaving all of its storylines unfinished. It was replaced with Star Wars Rebels, a show that had obviously inferior production values, indicating the decision-making was based on cost and not quality
  • Following the end of Rebels (which ended up winning people over), Lucasfilm followed it up with Star Wars Resistance, a very child-friendly series with even lower quality animation and production values. The series was universally criticized and appears not to have found much of an audience. It is being concluded after only two seasons
Wider expanded universe in general
  • It is generally agreed that the current "expanded universe" is significantly more stagnant creatively than the old EU. The vast majority of stories take place in the OT era. Every single story is required to be overseen by the Lucasfilm Story Group, who provide notes and guidance and result in a committee-created feel to much of the EU. Most of the novels and comics feature existing Star Wars characters instead of original storylines and plots, preventing full creativity
Video games
  • The disastrous decision was made to give the entire Star Wars IP license to a single company for ten years. That company, EA, has only released three games in the span of 2013-2021, two of which were critical and commercial underperformers and the third has yet to be released. Several games in development have been cancelled after years of work had already been put into them
  • Industry gossip suggests that the Lucasfilm Story Group's close watch over these stories and games has played a significant role in the problems EA has experienced
Merchandising
  • Toy sales in general are down (kids and their damn vidya games) but Star Wars merchandise in particular has suffered from a lack of interesting and creative designs from the new films
  • Various assorted controversies regarding toys of female and PoC characters (#WheresRey during TFA, #WheresRose during TROS, etc)
Star Wars is still in a decent place; we've got creative stories featuring original characters like the Mandalorian and some of the books and comics, but there is obviously some serious cracks in Lucasfilm's production strategy across all fronts, and the buck stops at Kennedy's desk. I didn't include Galaxy's Edge because those issues are mostly from Disney Parks & Resorts and not Lucasfilm.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is a lot more informative and grounded than "Kennedy is ruining muh Star Wars" that you usually hear. Thanks for this.

I think TLJ is the best of the new batch, so it's interesting that it had no big production issues. I think Solo and R1 turned out just fine though, but obviously the productions were a mess. TFA is just fun, shallow fare.
 
Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
WillyFive said:
I would argue the movie was already a bit too heavy on fan service, even down to the way John Williams was directed. I think fans don't know what they want; the movie gave them Luke fighting Rey, Rey and Kylo Ren fighting together, Luke fighting Kylo Ren, both Leia and Luke using the force in an all new OP way, and more (even one of the goat Yoda scenes). Oh well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Eeeh, I don't really call Luke v Ben a fight. Ben tried to hit him twice and that's about it.

The Star Wars base is fragmented between many groups where each group wants something different. It's not a monolith.
 
Last edited:
Dennis8K

Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
Final episode of GoT airs.

Benioff and Weiss: "Well, off to make Star Wars!"

Daenerys Targaryen, First of Her Name: "Dracarys"

Couldn't have happened to a nicer pair of hacks.
 
DSP

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
That Q/A was real? holy shit these two guys are really huge idiots. How they could even get to this level. With the recent moves to give SW to Marvel basically and all the firing and cancellations, I imagine internal reviews of RoS must be pretty negative. I'm ok with Star War being managed by Feige and Favreau from now on.
 
Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
BDS said:
Assorted issues and troubles under Lucasfilm in the last seven years
Movies
  • With one exception (TLJ), every single film produced has had significant production issues:
    • The Force Awakens had a very rushed, rocky production. Multiple script drafts were written and thrown out. The final script was written just weeks before filming. The film's planned May 2015 release date was so tight that JJ Abrams practically threatened to quit if it wasn't delayed (to Kennedy's credit, she supposedly backed him on this when they demanded a delay from Iger). The decision was made to make a film that very closely echoes the original trilogy, abandoning any creative worldbuilding to instead create what is essentially the same foundation the OT was built on, leaving limited opportunity for follow-up storytelling. Because the movie was a huge success, Lucasfilm learned nothing from the mistakes they made and ended up repeating them several more times
    • Rogue One was rewritten like fifteen times, including during post-production. Massive reshoots resulted in a third of the movie (or more) being reshot just months before release. The original director was effectively fired and replaced during editing. The original premise (bounty hunters and mercenaries must work together on an espionage mission that leads to the discovery of the Death Star plans) was scrapped in favor of a more traditional, OT-friendly, creatively stagnant Rebels vs Empire plot
    • Solo existed essentially as a contractual requirement for Lawrence Kasdan's involvement in TFA. Despite overwhelming lack of interest apparent as early as the film's announcement in 2015, Lucasfilm bored full-steam ahead with production on a very misguided film. An actor who does not resemble Harrison Ford at all was cast as the iconic Han Solo character. Two improvisational comedy directors were hired and then fired (for being behind schedule and too improvisational) after two thirds of the film had already been shot, necessitating one of the biggest reshoot operations in Hollywood blockbuster history as Ron Howard came in to reshoot nearly the entire film. Despite the terrible PR around the film, extremely rushed schedule, and controversy around TLJ, Lucasfilm made the hilariously misguided decision to release the film in May instead of December, where it was promptly creamed at the box office in one of the biggest financial flops ever
    • The Rise of Skywalker was in full pre-production mode when the decision was suddenly made to release director Colin Trevorrow, necessitating a complete rewrite, from scratch, of the film's script just months before production was set to begin. Abrams was brought back in at the last minute to direct. Actual production, once it got underway, seems to have gone generally smoothly
  • Numerous other directors have been hired and fired, and their projects cancelled, sometimes after significant pre-production work had already been completed. These include Josh Trank's Boba Fett film, James Mangold's Boba Fett film, Stephen Daldry's Obi-Wan movie, and now David Benioff and DB Weiss's entire trilogy. Rian Johnson's announced films remain MIA
  • Despite a commitment to diversity, every single person hired (and/or fired) to write or direct a Disney-era Star Wars film under Kennedy has been a white man. Many of these white men had never directed a blockbuster before. Some hires -- most notably Trank, Trevorrow, and D&D -- were particularly controversial due to their poor critical track records, indicating that they were hired for "star power" and not quality
  • The Last Jedi made a lot of money. Disney probably wanted it to make more money. That's where I'll leave that endless discussion
Television
  • Almost immediately after the Disney purchase, the decision was made to cancel The Clone Wars, a critically acclaimed and generally popular animated show, leaving all of its storylines unfinished. It was replaced with Star Wars Rebels, a show that had obviously inferior production values, indicating the decision-making was based on cost and not quality
  • Following the end of Rebels (which ended up winning people over), Lucasfilm followed it up with Star Wars Resistance, a very child-friendly series with even lower quality animation and production values. The series was universally criticized and appears not to have found much of an audience. It is being concluded after only two seasons
Wider expanded universe in general
  • It is generally agreed that the current "expanded universe" is significantly more stagnant creatively than the old EU. The vast majority of stories take place in the OT era. Every single story is required to be overseen by the Lucasfilm Story Group, who provide notes and guidance and result in a committee-created feel to much of the EU. Most of the novels and comics feature existing Star Wars characters instead of original storylines and plots, preventing full creativity
Video games
  • The disastrous decision was made to give the entire Star Wars IP license to a single company for ten years. That company, EA, has only released three games in the span of 2013-2021, two of which were critical and commercial underperformers and the third has yet to be released. Several games in development have been cancelled after years of work had already been put into them
  • Industry gossip suggests that the Lucasfilm Story Group's close watch over these stories and games has played a significant role in the problems EA has experienced
Merchandising
  • Toy sales in general are down (kids and their damn vidya games) but Star Wars merchandise in particular has suffered from a lack of interesting and creative designs from the new films
  • Various assorted controversies regarding toys of female and PoC characters (#WheresRey during TFA, #WheresRose during TROS, etc)
Star Wars is still in a decent place; we've got creative stories featuring original characters like the Mandalorian and some of the books and comics, but there is obviously some serious cracks in Lucasfilm's production strategy across all fronts, and the buck stops at Kennedy's desk. I didn't include Galaxy's Edge because those issues are mostly from Disney Parks & Resorts and not Lucasfilm.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Perfect. Thank you.
 
Jarmel

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,297
New York
Welp there are a lot of juicy rumor bits in there. I can imagine an exec watching the final GoT ep and a minute after it finishes calling someone to fire D&D. lol

The Feige bit is huge too. If he's reporting to Iger directly then yea Kennedy might be on the way out. Dude would be killing himself running SW and Marvel at the same time. The MCU is a well oiled machine now so he could be more hands off with that and delve more into SW.
 
Gustaf

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
Jarmel said:
Welp there are a lot of juicy rumor bits in there. I can imagine an exec watching the final GoT ep and a minute after it finishes calling someone to fire D&D. lol

The Feige bit is huge too. If he's reporting to Iger directly then yea Kennedy might be on the way out. Dude would be killing himself running SW and Marvel at the same time. The MCU is a well oiled machine now so he could be more hands off with that and delve more into SW.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Feige is equal to Kennedy on the Disney ladder, he is not under KK, it makes not sense for him to report to someone equal to him
 
Solo

Solo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,744
shaneo632 said:
As great as Kevin Feige is, do we really want the same guy creating the same broadly entertaining tone across two major franchises? (I know for many the answer will be yes).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What does Feige create exactly? I feel like I'm living in some kind of alternate reality 2019 in which people worship at the altar of a producer. The money man. The scheduling man. The distribution man. None of these are creative roles. I have to admit that this "Feige da gawd" thing is one of the stranger internet nerd things I've seen in ages. Like, no one talks about, let alone sings the praises of any other producer in any other film franchise, like ever. Y'all are weird as hell.

"Yo man, Joel Silver produced the shit out of Die Hard!"
 
Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,643
Costa Rica
BDS said:
Assorted issues and troubles under Lucasfilm in the last seven years
Movies
  • With one exception (TLJ), every single film produced has had significant production issues:
    • The Force Awakens had a very rushed, rocky production. Multiple script drafts were written and thrown out. The final script was written just weeks before filming. The film's planned May 2015 release date was so tight that JJ Abrams practically threatened to quit if it wasn't delayed (to Kennedy's credit, she supposedly backed him on this when they demanded a delay from Iger). The decision was made to make a film that very closely echoes the original trilogy, abandoning any creative worldbuilding to instead create what is essentially the same foundation the OT was built on, leaving limited opportunity for follow-up storytelling. Because the movie was a huge success, Lucasfilm learned nothing from the mistakes they made and ended up repeating them several more times
    • Rogue One was rewritten like fifteen times, including during post-production. Massive reshoots resulted in a third of the movie (or more) being reshot just months before release. The original director was effectively fired and replaced during editing. The original premise (bounty hunters and mercenaries must work together on an espionage mission that leads to the discovery of the Death Star plans) was scrapped in favor of a more traditional, OT-friendly, creatively stagnant Rebels vs Empire plot
    • Solo existed essentially as a contractual requirement for Lawrence Kasdan's involvement in TFA. Despite overwhelming lack of interest apparent as early as the film's announcement in 2015, Lucasfilm bored full-steam ahead with production on a very misguided film. An actor who does not resemble Harrison Ford at all was cast as the iconic Han Solo character. Two improvisational comedy directors were hired and then fired (for being behind schedule and too improvisational) after two thirds of the film had already been shot, necessitating one of the biggest reshoot operations in Hollywood blockbuster history as Ron Howard came in to reshoot nearly the entire film. Despite the terrible PR around the film, extremely rushed schedule, and controversy around TLJ, Lucasfilm made the hilariously misguided decision to release the film in May instead of December, where it was promptly creamed at the box office in one of the biggest financial flops ever
    • The Rise of Skywalker was in full pre-production mode when the decision was suddenly made to release director Colin Trevorrow, necessitating a complete rewrite, from scratch, of the film's script just months before production was set to begin. Abrams was brought back in at the last minute to direct. Actual production, once it got underway, seems to have gone generally smoothly
  • Numerous other directors have been hired and fired, and their projects cancelled, sometimes after significant pre-production work had already been completed. These include Josh Trank's Boba Fett film, James Mangold's Boba Fett film, Stephen Daldry's Obi-Wan movie, and now David Benioff and DB Weiss's entire trilogy. Rian Johnson's announced films remain MIA
  • Despite a commitment to diversity, every single person hired (and/or fired) to write or direct a Disney-era Star Wars film under Kennedy has been a white man. Many of these white men had never directed a blockbuster before. Some hires -- most notably Trank, Trevorrow, and D&D -- were particularly controversial due to their poor critical track records, indicating that they were hired for "star power" and not quality
  • The Last Jedi made a lot of money. Disney probably wanted it to make more money. That's where I'll leave that endless discussion
Television
  • Almost immediately after the Disney purchase, the decision was made to cancel The Clone Wars, a critically acclaimed and generally popular animated show, leaving all of its storylines unfinished. It was replaced with Star Wars Rebels, a show that had obviously inferior production values, indicating the decision-making was based on cost and not quality
  • Following the end of Rebels (which ended up winning people over), Lucasfilm followed it up with Star Wars Resistance, a very child-friendly series with even lower quality animation and production values. The series was universally criticized and appears not to have found much of an audience. It is being concluded after only two seasons
Wider expanded universe in general
  • It is generally agreed that the current "expanded universe" is significantly more stagnant creatively than the old EU. The vast majority of stories take place in the OT era. Every single story is required to be overseen by the Lucasfilm Story Group, who provide notes and guidance and result in a committee-created feel to much of the EU. Most of the novels and comics feature existing Star Wars characters instead of original storylines and plots, preventing full creativity
Video games
  • The disastrous decision was made to give the entire Star Wars IP license to a single company for ten years. That company, EA, has only released three games in the span of 2013-2021, two of which were critical and commercial underperformers and the third has yet to be released. Several games in development have been cancelled after years of work had already been put into them
  • Industry gossip suggests that the Lucasfilm Story Group's close watch over these stories and games has played a significant role in the problems EA has experienced
Merchandising
  • Toy sales in general are down (kids and their damn vidya games) but Star Wars merchandise in particular has suffered from a lack of interesting and creative designs from the new films
  • Various assorted controversies regarding toys of female and PoC characters (#WheresRey during TFA, #WheresRose during TROS, etc)
Star Wars is still in a decent place; we've got creative stories featuring original characters like the Mandalorian and some of the books and comics, but there is obviously some serious cracks in Lucasfilm's production strategy across all fronts, and the buck stops at Kennedy's desk. I didn't include Galaxy's Edge because those issues are mostly from Disney Parks & Resorts and not Lucasfilm.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Fantastic Post.
 
Ignatz Mouse

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Solo said:
What does Feige create exactly? I feel like I'm living in some kind of alternate reality 2019 in which people worship at the altar of a producer. The money man. The scheduling man. The distribution man. None of these are creative roles. I have to admit that this "Feige da gawd" thing is one of the stranger internet nerd things I've seen in ages. Like, no one talks about, let alone sings the praises of any other producer in any other film franchise, like ever. Y'all are weird as hell.

"Yo man, Joel Silver produced the shit out of Die Hard!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The worship is weird, but he's clearly deeply involved in the creative direction of the MCU. I'll guess his script notes are extensive.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.