Absolutely gorgeous. Excited for the raytracing as nextgen consoles gave the capability confirmed.
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Vampire: TM Bloodlines 2 - Gamescom RTX trailer
- Thread starter bear force one
- Start date
Absolutely gorgeous. Excited for the raytracing as nextgen consoles gave the capability confirmed.
A game at night like this in a City just looks so much better with RT reflections, especially on see through Windows like it has! Cubemap look garbo in comparison.
Water reflection that accurately reflects stuff from outside what is being rendered on screen is a bit beyond the kind of reflections that are in old games.
I dunno. I just don't see much of a difference, but I'm insensitive to this stuff in general. Also, that VA could have been much better.
Most games use screen space reflections which only reflect what's currently being rendered (with a slight delay), which becomes glaringly obvious when you rotate the camera while in the water (edges of the screen have no reflections). Using ray-tracing the reflections are rendered in real-time, even those not in screenspace.
Thats faked by having a flipped model underneath the character lol. This is real time raytraced reflections.
Edit: Scratch that. The characters are sprites, so literally all they're doing is flipping the sprite 180 degrees on one axis. (I guess they have a blue tinted version of every sprite, or a way to tint them blue)
Now that's just bragging lol, Metro crashed every few mins for me with RTX on.
Well in the video @ 0:39 and 0:44 you're telling me that sight (That you can see) isn't being rendered? What bout the shelves @ 0:44 of the video? Isn't all of that stuff within the scene that should be rendered?
It's gorgeous, but its already gorgeous without ray tracing. I don't know if I'm old or what, having seen massive leaps in graphics and crazy graphical tricks, but this is not doing it for me. Something where the beauty and visual construction of the game is already 99% there and then ray tracing just adds an accurately reflected 1% cherry on top. Like, ok... it's technically way more accurate, but is it as an entire gestalt of a visual image more impressive to the eye?
What it's gonna take are dynamically moving lights everywhere, reflections everywhere, and and bold color choices so the light bouncing off everything is obvious to really impress me.
What it's gonna take are dynamically moving lights everywhere, reflections everywhere, and and bold color choices so the light bouncing off everything is obvious to really impress me.
Looks good. Decently subdued use of ray tracing, as it probably should be in cases like this. Mainly loving the interior reflections on windows.
My concern is the voice work. Here it sounds like someone doing a decent job of reading a sheet, but that's not what you want in dialogue directed at the player. The demo they showed at E3 wasn't too flash either in a lot of the voice work.
I'm still very excited for this game but I'm tempering my expectations. Bloodline's characters and performances are just out of this world good, and I think this is inevitably going to feel a bit like a bootleg sequel.
Right, but I think that's the cost of improving modern video games. We're at a stage on current generation hardware where the quality of a complete image is already insanely detailed and gorgeous. I'm not entirely arguing diminishing returns, but the really hard, cohesive and obvious leaps in visual fidelity are getting lesser. We can render such spectacular things in real time. Now it's all in the details and nuances.
But those dynamics you're referring to are largely it, and what makes ray tracing so gorgeous. In actual play they often come alive, even if it's just reflections in windows and what not, because they highlight how faked other reflections are. You can see every little detail and movement in full dynamic glory in every single reflection. It's still little details, but there's something incredible about looking at the tiny little prop windshield on a Battlefield V jeep that is otherwise utterly non functional during standard play, and seeing with RTX on it accurately reflect everything in real time just as it should.
My guess is that they're only using RTX for reflections here, and not for lighting/shadows. With such careful detail required for the night and lighting they probably want to ensure they get it right on a standard pipeline and not have any RTX trickery fuck it up.
My concern is the voice work. Here it sounds like someone doing a decent job of reading a sheet, but that's not what you want in dialogue directed at the player. The demo they showed at E3 wasn't too flash either in a lot of the voice work.
I'm still very excited for this game but I'm tempering my expectations. Bloodline's characters and performances are just out of this world good, and I think this is inevitably going to feel a bit like a bootleg sequel.
Right, but I think that's the cost of improving modern video games. We're at a stage on current generation hardware where the quality of a complete image is already insanely detailed and gorgeous. I'm not entirely arguing diminishing returns, but the really hard, cohesive and obvious leaps in visual fidelity are getting lesser. We can render such spectacular things in real time. Now it's all in the details and nuances.
But those dynamics you're referring to are largely it, and what makes ray tracing so gorgeous. In actual play they often come alive, even if it's just reflections in windows and what not, because they highlight how faked other reflections are. You can see every little detail and movement in full dynamic glory in every single reflection. It's still little details, but there's something incredible about looking at the tiny little prop windshield on a Battlefield V jeep that is otherwise utterly non functional during standard play, and seeing with RTX on it accurately reflect everything in real time just as it should.
My guess is that they're only using RTX for reflections here, and not for lighting/shadows. With such careful detail required for the night and lighting they probably want to ensure they get it right on a standard pipeline and not have any RTX trickery fuck it up.
There are multiple ways to do reflections.
Sometimes, it's cubemap (think of an image inside the reflection, not real time but prebaked reflection).
Sometimes, it's screenspace reflection (real time reflection of elements only seen on screen and if an object appears in front of it, it breaks)
Heck, before all of that, there were clever yet expensive ways, such as mirroring the 3D models and environnement.
Haven't seen it yet but developers use simplified scenes to save on computation, ray-casting is still very expensive
Main benefit vs.faked reflections like in Myth is that they're fully dynamic and so reflect things like explosions.
The buildings (that are 3d) are reflected as well.
is it not possible for them to have a screenspace reflection option outside of raytracing then? So people without RTX cards can enjoy reflections even if it's not as good?
I think RTX ray tracing is going to be, for at least a good couple more years, something people who understand and identify the technology appreciate in trailers like this. More than people who are expecting some whimsical magic overhaul of the entire rendering engine.
What look superficial, trivial, and unimpressive to some is incredibly impressive to me. Real time ray tracing is absolutely a game changer, even if right now it's only used for reflections.
This entire conversation is super weird.
Reflections are old as shit. Nobody claims that Nvidia invented them with RTX. The thing about ray-tracing is that it allows them with a huge amount of detail that wasn't possible before while being easier to code/requiring less resources.
RT is also probably better enjoyed with uncompressed direct feed footage on a relatively high end monitor, not unlike HDR. Trashy streams from YouTube don't make it any favours.
Which brings me to my eternal penance of not finding any 23 inch gaming monitor worth a shit.
I know, which is why I found it weird that this video makes it seem like "RTX on = reflections" and "RTX off = no reflections."
It is. And they do. You can see it in many instances in the comparison like water puddles.
Generally the old way to do it is trickery/"cheats" because real-time raytracing that would provide accurate reflections from the surrounding space everywhere in any given environment has been too taxing to the hardware until more recently (we're still not getting anywhere near the best that raytracing can offer but we're taking the first significant steps of getting there). Like, my understanding of at least one way of doing it is for developers to put these invisible (to us) "spheres" around any space that has anything reflective that the engine will use as a reference point to what stuff like puddles will reflect of the surrounding environment. It doesn't actually reflect the objects/light sources around you but an approximation of it that is taken from the image attached to the sphere (the image itself can be a somewhat low-quality 360 degree snapshot/texture that has to be painstakingly taken from the surrounding area of every one of those invisible spheres).
Oh, that sucks. I didn't have any crash issues with the game. Although the fps was less than ideal haha. Had to turn off some graphical features.
yeah also i'm the type of guy who gives 2 fucks about shadow or illumination, i'm more for brutal detail, framerate or physics...
give me a pre-baked illumination and 4k60 frame with good detail instead of barely noticeable rtx at 1080p every day of the week.
i'm really sad that next gen console are gonna waste resources in rtx when the technology is clearly not ready or optimized enough...with a 400-500$ hardware rtx is bullshit.
They have to start somewhere. Tech doesn't go forward by holding back. Striving for 4K is much more useless than raytracing.
i'm not really a fanboy of 4k, i have a 4k tv but i play at 1080p because i like 60frame rock solid (i save 4k for when i buy a 3000 series)
but you don't have to see a comparison with 4k off and 4k on to see the immediate difference, so i don't know if 4k is more useless than raytracing right now...
yeah i know in some games rt is more noticeable, the fact is that 4k is like that but for every single game...
also they can start on pc, not on a 400$ hardware that probably is gonna melt to maintain basic rtx and 30 frames...
Good prebaked illumination requires a ton of effort that can go elsewhere if you free development resources with ray-tracing. And it will still look like ass in many instances. Proper RT support across the board could provide good illumination to pretty much all games, no matter their budget.
People are just unaware of the fact that ray-tracing (RTX or in any other form) has some significant intangible benefits. The key is to get there without ruining the frame rate or being able to allocate it in certain pipelines, but you have to start somewhere, as Famassu says.
Yup.
Myst looks to have classic simple inverted world behind transparent river trick.
This trick and the alternative of rendering view of inverted camera to a texture and using it are limited to more or less to a planar reflection surfaces and cost increases quite lot by having multiple planar surfaces in different oriations. (rasterization is awesome when you have single viewpoint and less so when you have multiple viewpoints. (Or like in case of complex reflective surfaces a viewpoint per pixel.))
It looks like they have SSR when RTX is disabled. (quite visible in that factory scene.)
When objects are not visible in main rasterized screen the reflections usually use cubemaps as fallback to SSR.
Next gen console/pc games will have visuals far ahead of any rtx game, you dont have to worry about that
please guerrilla, i like your dinobot even with fake reflections on the armour, keep it that way please :-)
In the warehouse shot at 0:42 you can see screen space reflections of the boxes where those 3 baseball bats are. But you can only see the lowest boxes, because that's where the screen ends.
Also if the was anything in the foreground blocking those boxes from view, the occluded parts couldn't be reflected (or the foreground object would be reflected, incorrectly).
Also also, compared to the actual reflection with RTX you can see the angle of the reflection with SSR is off since it just mirrors what's on screen. So for example the bottom of the shelf isn't (and can't be) reflected with SSR even though it should.
Ahhhhhh this game looks so good I cant wait to try out the ray tracing. I honestly still can't believe this game exists
