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DPB

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,849
Yes and no. While CDPR does ensure a game runs on modern systems when preparing it for release, post-release support rests with the publisher, which can and has lead to cases of incompatibility. Worms 2, for example, doesn't work on Windows 10 at all without workarounds.

Yeah, I bought The Testament of Sherlock Holmes recently and the GOG version has exactly the same problem on modern systems as the Steam version. There's high chance that it'll crash when saving, taking all your progress up to that point with it. This game isn't even that old either, it was released six years ago.
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
So you think they should still offer a broken version? I mean, how is this even defensible? This feels like some sort of bizarro world, I swear. I get you guys are fans of Steam, so I am. But I can also call out poor buniness practices as well. And this is one, hands down. I really can't even think of an old game I own on Steam that works right.

GOG do not guarantee products work. They only check before release, and they'll check key games and their own personal ports on major OS updates. Third party post-release support comes from the publisher, just like it does on Steam. The fact that Fallout 3 GOG works and Steam does not is simply down to DRM differences.

As a result, there are many games on GOG which do not work on latest windows without community patching, and there are even more Linux releases which require effort to get working on newer distros, because GOG expects old libraries which are often no longer packaged.

Just like how code on GitHub is purely the responsibility of the repository admins, the games on Steam are purely the responsibility of the publisher in control of their own repositories. Valve do not have access, or the publishing rights to bring the GOG version of the game over to Steam. That is Bethesda's duty.

That last line is massive hyperbole. I own plenty of old games and many still work great. A lot of the ones which do work are DRM free, which helps.
 

XDevil666

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,985
it's understandable that valve doesn't want to support steam on such old OSes anymore, but at the same time, it sucks that - from the way they phrase it - this means you also won't be able to access any of the games you own that would run on those OSes either.

i feel like they should at least offer a stripped down client to download and install playable games on those platforms, even if they don't support doing anything else.
Well doesn't 7/8/10 run XP compatibility modes?
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
"Old games not working on Steam is the norm"

Bullshit. A few games here and there does not make a norm. I still play plenty of games pre-2008 and most of the time they still work fine.

I like and support GOG, but this is ridiculous hyperbole.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
The vast majority of GoG's old games do work on modern platforms. They also make the effort to offer products compatible to current operating systems. If some games do not work, that is not the norm. Where old games not working on Steam is the norm. Apples to oranges.

So no, I am happy with GoG.
Fallout 3 works on Steam the same way many games "work" on GOG though. Again, factually, many of GOG games require tinkering and community fixes to not have major issues.
So if you're not a hypocrite you shouldn't be happy with GOG.
 

mindatlarge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,926
PA, USA
GOG do not guarantee products work. They only check before release, and they'll check key games and their own personal ports on major OS updates. Third party post-release support comes from the publisher, just like it does on Steam. The fact that Fallout 3 GOG works and Steam does not is simply down to DRM differences.

As a result, there are many games on GOG which do not work on latest windows without community patching, and there are even more Linux releases which require effort to get working on newer distros, because GOG expects old libraries which are often no longer packaged.

Just like how code on GitHub is purely the responsibility of the repository admins, the games on Steam are purely the responsibility of the publisher in control of their own repositories. Valve do not have access, or the publishing rights to bring the GOG version of the game over to Steam. That is Bethesda's duty.

That last line is massive hyperbole. I own plenty of old games and many still work great. A lot of the ones which do work are DRM free, which helps.
Believe me, I am not arguing that there is an extreme complexity in offering old content when operating systems are ever changing. I am a reasonable person. My point is simply that I am not a fan of offering content if it is useless to the consumer. This would go for any company. My point is also that if a company does not have accesss to a working version, do not offer it at all. It comes off as disingenuous to me.
 

mindatlarge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,926
PA, USA
Fallout 3 works on Steam the same way many games "work" on GOG though. Again, factually, many of GOG games require tinkering and community fixes to not have major issues.
So if you're not a hypocrite you shouldn't be happy with GOG.
Well, like I said, comparing Steam to GoG when it comes to old games is apples to oranges. I mean, show me even 4 or 5 old games that work out of the box on Steam. The fact that we can't just rattle some games off quickly is telling. Where you, for the most part, can be confident in the majority of GoG's old games to work.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,676
USA USA USA
The vast majority of GoG's old games do work on modern platforms. They also make the effort to offer products compatible to current operating systems. If some games do not work, that is not the norm. Where old games not working on Steam is the norm. Apples to oranges.

So no, I am happy with GoG.
And where do you get the numbers of old working games or not working games? I would love to know them.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
"GOG's programmers" is a bit of a misnomer. Lots of times they just preapply community fixes and little ele.

GOG doesn't do a particularly good job either way, mind you. Saints Row 2, for example, is still fucked, the only thing they did was capping the fps to 30 to diminish a bit of its unstability, but it's still a complete mess and will crash constantly unless you use community made mods.

not the only game either.

which is why i find mindatlarge posts quite a bit disengenious. There's a shitload of old games on GOG that don't really work all that great out of the box. This isn't exclusive to steam.
I can second this with KKND 1 and 2 both were broken back then , official patches have been made by the devellopers back then and GOG couldn't be arsed to have the patched exectuables up on their platform.
Vampire Bloodlines is also unpatched and provides nothing but the Day 1 vanilla binary

And so on and so on and so on ...

So if anything my dear mindatlarge GOG's track reccord ain't exactly stellar either indeed ...
 
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Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,405
California
Wow, end of an era. Though to be fair, I haven't used steam on xp in years. I've been meaning to try some of those old games I have in steam (that don't run on modern windows) through proton.
 

RionaaM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,852
Well, like I said, comparing Steam to GoG when it comes to old games is apples to oranges. I mean, show me even 4 or 5 old games that work out of the box on Steam. The fact that we can't just rattle some games off quickly is telling. Where you, for the most part, can be confident in the majority of GoG's old games to work.
OK, I'll bite. Off the top of my head, and all natively (so no DOSBox):
- Jedi Knight (1997)
- Rogue Squadron (1998)
- Star Wars Episode 1: Racer (1999)
- Deus Ex (2000)
- Hitman (2000)
- Red Faction (2001)

Also, from your posts you seem to be fine about broken games, since you said that you don't blame publishers for them being broken. So according to your logic, I don't see what's the problem with Steam selling those games.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
Well, like I said, comparing Steam to GoG when it comes to old games is apples to oranges. I mean, show me even 4 or 5 old games that work out of the box on Steam. The fact that we can't just rattle some games off quickly is telling. Where you, for the most part, can be confident in the majority of GoG's old games to work.
i mean i played a bunch of old star wars games this year and they worked fine
 

Lork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
843
Well, like I said, comparing Steam to GoG when it comes to old games is apples to oranges. I mean, show me even 4 or 5 old games that work out of the box on Steam. The fact that we can't just rattle some games off quickly is telling. Where you, for the most part, can be confident in the majority of GoG's old games to work.
Fucking lol. DId it just not occur to you that there might be people who actually play old games sometimes who could call this absurd bluff?
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,997
"GOG's programmers" is a bit of a misnomer. Lots of times they just preapply community fixes and little ele.

GOG doesn't do a particularly good job either way, mind you. Saints Row 2, for example, is still fucked, the only thing they did was capping the fps to 30 to diminish a bit of its unstability, but it's still a complete mess and will crash constantly unless you use community made mods.
I have generally stopped buying games from GOG for a number of reasons, but the state in which they deliver old games, and how they support them is awful.
Many games have community patches of some sort applied, but GOG don't document this or actively maintain their releases, so you may have a pre-patched version of a game that does not work correctly with newer fixes, rather than the original unpatched game.
Many of the older games, such as DOS titles, do ship with the ISO so those are fine, but I've had trouble with a lot of earlier Windows-based titles, and their refund process is awful if you can't make it work.

I'd much rather have a clean version of the game and fix it up using PC Gaming Wiki myself than the unknown and undocumented state of GOG games.
GOG should have an option to just download the untouched ISO for any of the games that it sells.
 

Deleted member 1055

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
770
If you are not savvy enough to access your Windows XP only games after this, then you are not savvy enough to safely run an outdated and increasingly unsafe OS like Windows XP. Upgrade or get off the internet, don't host the digital equivalent of plague carrying vermin.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Windows 10 is amazing, no idea why anyone wouldn't wanna upgrade to it tbh... and I used to absolutely j'adore XP.
It's not a question of not wanting to upgrade but of bein able to make legacy games run all over again. And yes some titles availble on Steam are Win XP only compatible , and plain just don't work at all on modern day versions of Windows .
 

Civilstrife

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,286
Windows 10 is amazing, no idea why anyone wouldn't wanna upgrade to it tbh... and I used to absolutely j'adore XP.

I wish I could go back to an operating system that didn't force updates on you.

There is literally no way to prevent it in Windows 10 short of keeping your system offline.

Microsoft is uncomfortably aggressive about it. Windows 10 literally compressed the entire contents of my C drive to squeeze in the update when there wasn't enough space for it, breaking a ton of things. One day, every game I owned that stored save files on the drive just could no longer load those files.

When you have your system exactly the way you want, having it constantly change without your permission is infuriating.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
I wish I could go back to an operating system that didn't force updates on you.

There is literally no way to prevent it in Windows 10 short of keeping your system offline.

Microsoft is uncomfortably aggressive about it. Windows 10 literally compressed the entire contents of my C drive to squeeze in the update when there wasn't enough space for it, breaking a ton of things. One day, every game I owned that stored save files on the drive just could no longer load those files.

When you have your system exactly the way you want, having it constantly change without your permission is infuriating.
They were already agressive about it in certain companies with some older versions of their OS.
That is legit the reason why I switched to Linux full time (before that I was merely dual booting ) but since the introduction of some policies during XP Pro Service Pack 3 for companies on the "Full cycle edition" of Windows XP pro (basically it was a pricing deal that landed you a slightly modified version of XP pro that forced updates on your ass ) every single machine I owned has been full Linux with maybe a windows version in a VM if I feel like being generous that day ...
 

Lkr

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,510
The fact that there is fake outrage over the 0.22% and what ifs about XP concern is the same reason Windows sucks. It's 2018, time to move on.
 

AlanOC91

Owner of YGOPRODeck.com
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
960
I wonder what are the chances of a new surprise Steam UI tomorrow with the end of the XP support?
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,264
I wish I could go back to an operating system that didn't force updates on you.

There is literally no way to prevent it in Windows 10 short of keeping your system offline.

Microsoft is uncomfortably aggressive about it. Windows 10 literally compressed the entire contents of my C drive to squeeze in the update when there wasn't enough space for it, breaking a ton of things. One day, every game I owned that stored save files on the drive just could no longer load those files.

When you have your system exactly the way you want, having it constantly change without your permission is infuriating.

You need a Education or Enterprise version to stop automatic updates.
 

Sabercrusader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,189
It is not Steam's responsibility to support Operating Systems far past their end of life and support from the official developer. Where running said OS' is literally a huge security threat to yourself and your network.

However, I do wish that Steam would place an alert or something on the pages for games that are known to have issues running on modern hardware. As a forewarning to new buyers. I think that would be a happy medium, at least to me.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
It is not Steam's responsibility to support Operating Systems far past their end of life and support from the official developer. Where running said OS' is literally a huge security threat to yourself and your network.

However, I do wish that Steam would place an alert or something on the pages for games that are known to have issues running on modern hardware. As a forewarning to new buyers. I think that would be a happy medium, at least to me.

This'd make sense, but I think Valve would say that it's the dev's/pub's responsibility to keep their store pages updated with all relevant information. :/
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,767
This is obviously because the coming of the Mini PC with Windows XP as OS so Valve can sell Half-Life 1 and 2 again.
 

c0Zm1c

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,202
Windows 10 literally compressed the entire contents of my C drive to squeeze in the update when there wasn't enough space for it, breaking a ton of things. One day, every game I owned that stored save files on the drive just could no longer load those files.
Wow, and here was me thinking Windows 10 periodically uninstalling my 360 controller driver was bad. :\
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,997
Holy shit that was a fucking hassle. Fuck Windows 10. Thanks for the tip.
You don't need to touch Group Policy unless you actually mean to entirely stop automatic updates, as Pro lets you defer security updates up to 30 days and feature updates for 365 days right in the settings app. You can also switch to the business branch for updates which will add another ~3 months to that.
I would use group policy to disable automatic restarts if a user is logged in though.
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
You don't need to touch Group Policy unless you actually mean to entirely stop automatic updates, as Pro lets you defer security updates up to 30 days and feature updates for 365 days right in the settings app. You can also switch to the business branch for updates which will add another ~3 months to that.
I would use group policy to disable automatic restarts if a user is logged in though.
I do mean to. Thank you.