Valve Index - Impressions Thread

[Waffle]

I'm really happy to hear the off the ear speakers are good. Using my Vive pro, I sometimes have the headphones slightly off my ears and that makes a huge difference in comfort because of airflow but I was sacrificing audio quality quite a bit from the already bad sound quality of the Vive pro headphones. I have this preordered and can't wait to try it.

 

[samred]

We've moved on from "impressions" to full-length previews. I have lived with Valve Index for the past seven days and wrote the heck out of it here, in what we're calling a preview, not a review.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/...-a-vr-game-changer-with-a-few-question-marks/

This engineer was on to something that couldn't be sold in a whirlwind press event: the Index difference in the home. I've been testing that angle for nearly a week thanks to an early Index shipment that Valve is letting press discuss in a "preview" capacity—meaning, this is not a fully fledged review ahead of the system's June 28 launch ($999 for the full Index system, $499 for just the headset without its required "lighthouse" tracking boxes or any controllers). A lot could change in a month.

Instead, this piece revolves around that Valve engineer's implied suggestion: strap into a Valve Index for hours at a time, make it part of my workday, and see the resulting difference. These tests (which include typing the majority of this preview with an Index as my "monitor") have been telling. Valve Index isn't perfect by any stretch, but it is absolutely the first VR system I can use for long periods of time without feeling "VR swimminess." Until someone else shows up with a system that exceeds Index's weaknesses and capitalizes on its best improvements, I do not see myself switching back to another PC VR headset.

Click to shrink...

 

[I KILL PXLS]

We've moved on from "impressions" to full-length previews. I have lived with Valve Index for the past seven days and wrote the heck out of it here, in what we're calling a preview, not a review.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/...-a-vr-game-changer-with-a-few-question-marks/

Click to shrink...

Oh snap! I guess the press embargo ends today. Very detailed write up. I'm a little confused about the trackpad to joystick translation for some games though. It sounds like Valve is doing some translating on their side for games that don't have support and it sounds like you were able to customize the controls a bit. Is that something they're adding in the options (or was that always there for the wands)?

 

[samred]

Oh snap! I guess the press embargo ends today. Very detailed write up. I'm a little confused about the trackpad to joystick translation for some games though. It sounds like Valve is doing some translating on their side for games that don't have support and it sounds like you were able to customize the controls a bit. Is that something they're adding in the options (or was that always there for the wands)?

Click to shrink...

Valve announced a whole SteamVR control binding system a while back. It's been live within SteamVR for some time, more noticeable if you, say, use an Oculus Rift/Rift S to play a game that was designed around Vive wands. Right now, you can go into the system settings (but only within the SteamVR interface, I believe, not on a PC monitor), then "control bindings," and you can tweak how the Oculus Touch controllers' buttons/functions map to what the game expects from a Vive wand. You can then upload your custom mapping so that members of the community can take advantage of it, and Valve has uploaded a bunch of its own custom mappings for various games (but not all of them, not by a longshot).

Same thing for the Knuckles.

 

[Durante]

Tested:


Quick notes:

• FoV difference larger than expected.
  Can see panel edge at maximum FoV setting (lowest eye relief distance) -- this is a good sign for panel utilization, actually.
• The rave a lot about the refresh rate.
  What's very reassuring for me is that it seems like 144 Hz is perfectly usable.
  Also they were surprised at how big of a difference it makes, and that you can easily tell the difference even between 120 and 144 Hz.
• Audio quality is best in class (to be expected)
• Fit and ergonomics are also really good, they particularly note the very comfortable materials.
• Cable is apparently even longer than Vive.

 

[Aztechnology]

Oh awesome. Thanks for this.

Polygon posted there's as well it seems. Gotta finish the Ars article first though

 

[MrBob]

We've moved on from "impressions" to full-length previews. I have lived with Valve Index for the past seven days and wrote the heck out of it here, in what we're calling a preview, not a review.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/...-a-vr-game-changer-with-a-few-question-marks/

Click to shrink...

The headset sounds so legit.
I hope valve can fix the controller issues soon. I have the headset controller bundle on reserve for end of July but may cancel and just get the headset for now and buy the controllers when all games are fully supported. Don't want to spend 250+ on controllers and run into issues playing games.

 

[I KILL PXLS]

The headset sounds so legit.
I hope valve can fix the controller issues soon. I have the headset controller bundle on reserve for end of July but may cancel and just get the headset for now and buy the controllers when all games are fully supported. Don't want to spend 250+ on controllers and run into issues playing games.

Click to shrink...

With the current wait times for preorders, makes a lot more sense to hold on to that order and sell the controllers (for probably a profit).

 

[thebishop]

Valve's whole VR trajectory is so weird. It's dope that they continue pressing for a higher level of realism/fidelity, etc. But at some point they need to be willing to settle on a standard bar of performance and work toward a mass market price/package.

Even if I had the PC hardware, physical space, and the money to burn on an Index, I wouldn't buy it because I know it's not going to bring the kind of mass developer support VR really needs. At best this is something I'd pay to try at Dave and Busters.

 

[gabdeg]

This thing sounds so rad. The audio solution, increased FOV, higher refresh rate, the controllers. Kicking myself in the ass for not reserving one straight away but waiting a couple of days. Still gotta wait till August.

 

[Deleted member 3897]

You know what would be nice? It being available in my country.

 

[Arulan]

Valve's whole VR trajectory is so weird. It's dope that they continue pressing for a higher level of realism/fidelity, etc. But at some point they need to be willing to settle on a standard bar of performance and work toward a mass market price/package.

Even if I had the PC hardware, physical space, and the money to burn on an Index, I wouldn't buy it because I know it's not going to bring the kind of mass developer support VR really needs. At best this is something I'd pay to try at Dave and Busters.

Click to shrink...

Valve doesn't need to design for the mainstream market. That's what everyone else is already doing. They clearly see a lot of value in pushing the boundaries of the high-end before a standard settles in.

I don't understand this thought-process at all. SteamVR is the most well-supported VR software platform available, and it supports all PC VR hardware. The Valve Index at launch will automatically become one of the most well-supported HMDs by virtue of SteamVR. And the abstracted nature of SteamVR's input also means you don't need explicit Index Controller support either (though support can add some additional features).

 

[MrBob]

With the current wait times for preorders, makes a lot more sense to hold on to that order and sell the controllers (for probably a profit).

Click to shrink...

Good point. I'll probably keep the controllers anyway though and deal with the growing pains as I don't like the Vive wands.

 

[Teiresias]

FoV is definitely my personal Achilles heel when it comes to VR right now. Goggle-vision and no peripheral vision (even so far out that it's not "usable") definitely takes me way out of world on the VR implementations I've tried (not too many to be fair). The wider they can get that the better.

 

[Laser Man]

Nice OP... now counting the days (months... maybe years?) until I can get my hands on the controllers myself!

 

[Ionic]

From Tested it seems like the only knocks against it are the LCD's lose the super deep blacks, there are still god rays, stereo overlap isn't as large as the Vive, and the default binding of the Index controllers to Vive wand games isn't optimal. Everything else looks stellar. I'm super excited to try games at the higher refresh rate. However, I was a bit surprised at the amount of ghosting they showed in their 90Hz to 144Hz comparison image. I thought I read the response times on the LCD's being quoted as below half a millisecond so I was really hoping for as little blur as possible. Well anyway, I'm excited for mine. Hopefully some of these design points become standard moving forward. I admire Facebook's attempts at making VR cheaper, but I hate to see regressions in performance.

I wonder when we get to see Index videos from devs. A few were saying tomorrow was the break of their NDA date so I'm surprised to see journalists already putting material out.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

Damn. I want this bad. But I cant justify the price.

 

[abracadaver]

edit

 

[atom519]

Glad to finally see some more in-depth impressions than what we got from the initial closed doors demo. Really hope Valve is able to work out the kinks of the knuckle tracking before launch, sounds like they have a lot of work to do adding support for existing games.

Everything else sounds amazing, going to be a loooong June waiting for this to show up on my doorstep.

 

[Ionic]

I'm interested in the difference between the Tested and Ars impressions of the speakers. Tested says they can get loud enough to where they needed to lower the volume whereas Ars said they were not able to get very loud and in fact can be drowned out by light ambient noise.

 

[pezzie]

It's certainly priced out of my range that I'm willing to plunk down to get into VR, but I love that Valve is pushing these boundaries.

 

[grendelrt]

I'm interested in the difference between the Tested and Ars impressions of the speakers. Tested says they can get loud enough to where they needed to lower the volume whereas Ars said they were not able to get very loud and in fact can be drowned out by light ambient noise.

Click to shrink...

Uploadvr's opinion mirrored with tested, "The new off-ear speakers on Index provide easily the loudest audio I've heard directly from a VR headset. "

 

[1-D_FE]

Tested:


Quick notes:

• FoV difference larger than expected.
  Can see panel edge at maximum FoV setting (lowest eye relief distance) -- this is a good sign for panel utilization, actually.
• The rave a lot about the refresh rate.
  What's very reassuring for me is that it seems like 144 Hz is perfectly usable.
  Also they were surprised at how big of a difference it makes, and that you can easily tell the difference even between 120 and 144 Hz.
• Audio quality is best in class (to be expected)
• Fit and ergonomics are also really good, they particularly note the very comfortable materials.
• Cable is apparently even longer than Vive.

Click to shrink...

Definitely sold me on keeping my reservation for the HMD.

I don't think you ever said, did you do the combo pack, or just the knuckles?

I wonder when we get to see Index videos from devs. A few were saying tomorrow was the break of their NDA date so I'm surprised to see journalists already putting material out.

Click to shrink...

Guessing Valve wanted the gaming press to get a day to shine in the sun.

 

[Rosol]

The tested video said the optics/lenses weren't much better than the vive - honestly for me that kills a lot of excitement. God rays are really the first thing that stick out and point out to you that you're in a VR headset and not in virtual reality to me - biggest immersion killer. The ars technica article seems to say it is clearer with a better sweet spot and less god rays, so sort of a mixed message, maybe ars technica was buying the hype - so we'll need more impressions. I still want one, but if the visual clarity still has the 'gen 1' drawbacks that pretty much takes me out of wanting it, it's also way too expensive.

 

[Wollan]

Visual comfort comes up now and then and comfort of the controllers. Do we have impressions of the comfort concerning headset fit (skull, face etc) ?

 

[Arthands]

We can expect more later today

 

[grendelrt]

We can expect more later today

Click to shrink...

Are the devs releasing stuff today? originally they said tomorrow (29th).

 

[jon bones]

I'm jumping into VR with the Quest, but I love that Valve is focused on high-end, high comfort devices.

Eventually, we'll have the best of both worlds (high end, comfortable all-in-one).

 

[Durante]

Valve doesn't need to design for the mainstream market. That's what everyone else is already doing. They clearly see a lot of value in pushing the boundaries of the high-end before a standard settles in.

I don't understand this thought-process at all. SteamVR is the most well-supported VR software platform available, and it supports all PC VR hardware. The Valve Index at launch will automatically become one of the most well-supported HMDs by virtue of SteamVR. And the abstracted nature of SteamVR's input also means you don't need explicit Index Controller support either (though support can add some additional features).

Click to shrink...

I fully agree with everything in this post. I'm really not sure why some would rather have even more options in the low- to mid-end -- there are a lot of manufacturers doing that, while the (consumer) high-end is far more sparse at this point.

Visual comfort comes up now and then and comfort of the controllers. Do we have impressions of the comfort concerning headset fit (skull, face etc) ?

Click to shrink...

The Tested impressions were very positive on the fit and comfort of the headset.

 

[MrBob]

Just finished the tested video, got me excited again for properly utilized index controller schemes. Being able to grip, hold,and release items naturally while in vr might be a game changer for interaction.

 

[gabdeg]

I wonder if the controllers also allow for a good slapping motion.

 

[Arthands]

 

[Arthands]

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3397088/valve-index-vr-headset-impressions.html

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/28/18639084/valve-index-steamvr-headset-knuckles-controllers-preview

More

 

[Ionic]

Anton of Hotdogs Horseshoes and Handgrenades has his impressions up, marking the first of the developer side impressions to get out. I look forward to seeing more as the day goes on. One of the things he talks at length about is how comfy the headset is.



Climbey dev on the Index. I love hearing from devs who released games waaaaaay back near the release of the Vive.

 

[Enordash]

Has there been any mention of the sound bleed from the speakers feeding back into the mic? That's a small worry of mine as I'm usually in Discord with friends when playing MP games.

 

[Ionic]

Has there been any mention of the sound bleed from the speakers feeding back into the mic? That's a small worry of mine as I'm usually in Discord with friends when playing MP games.

Click to shrink...

I believe the Climbey video is recorded with the Valve Index mic. I think some of Anton's Hotdogs Horseshoes and Handgrenades videos over the last couple of weeks have been recorded with the Index too. I haven't noticed obvious bleed, but I haven't heard any of them make any mention of it positive or negative. I hope a null reaction means it's simply not an issue.

 

[Durante]

Visual comfort comes up now and then and comfort of the controllers. Do we have impressions of the comfort concerning headset fit (skull, face etc) ?

Click to shrink...

I just watched the H3VR devlog linked above, and the developer very specifically states that "it makes [the Valve Index] the most comfortable HMD I've ever worn. It's not even close."
He also raves about the build quality -- "it feels like something built with vision and without compromise".

Interestingly, his opinion on the optics is very different from Tested. He talks about the optics sweet spot and focal range being massively larger than on 1st-gen headsets.

He also mentions that while the basic hardware pixel count is more or less the same as a Vive Pro, it's far sharper than that in practice.
(Probably a combination of better display utilization, better pixel fill rate, and more subpixels)

He adds another "fantastic" vote regarding audio quality, but that's unsurprising.

 

[Komo]

Basically 10/10's across the board I'm seeing.

 

[Jaysc]

I'm honestly surprised about the audio. Having a gap between between the ears makes no sense to me since you would think the audio would just bleed out, or external sounds would bleed in. I'm surprised (and thankful) that it's actually really good.

 

[Wollan]

I just watched the H3VR devlog linked above, and the developer very specifically states that "it makes [the Valve Index] the most comfortable HMD I've ever worn. It's not even close."
He also raves about the build quality -- "it feels like something built with vision and without compromise".

Click to shrink...

Music to my ears. The office has ordered one but I'm suspecting it will be around August before I go hands on with this.

 

[Takamura-San]

Can you use the knuckles with gen 1 light houses?

 

[pj-]

Can you use the knuckles with gen 1 light houses?

Click to shrink...

yes

 

[Enordash]

I believe the Climbey video is recorded with the Valve Index mic. I think some of Anton's Hotdogs Horseshoes and Handgrenades videos over the last couple of weeks have been recorded with the Index too. I haven't noticed obvious bleed, but I haven't heard any of them make any mention of it positive or negative. I hope a null reaction means it's simply not an issue.

Click to shrink...

That's fair. I guess it would have been brought up often if it was something to worry about.

 

[1-D_FE]

Yeah. The Climbey guy talked about how shockingly good the mic was. Like it sounded studio grade good to him. I don't think anyone is making these statements based off the premise that you have to play with the sound muted. So it seems like it does a great job of noise canceling.

 

[daybreak]

I might actually be interested in this, despite the cost, if Valve had made the damn thing available in Canada. No pre-orders, no news, no word on when or if it will ever be available here. They've gone full Google in terms of ignoring Canada.

 

[1-D_FE]

I might actually be interested in this, despite the cost, if Valve had made the damn thing available in Canada. No pre-orders, no news, no word on when or if it will ever be available here. They've gone full Google in terms of ignoring Canada.

Click to shrink...

They excluded Alaska and Hawaii too. Seems like they wanted to include "free" shipping in the price, but didn't want to ship to any place that would eat too much of their margin. I'm sure they'll open up once there's more supply than demand.

 

[daybreak]

They excluded Alaska and Hawaii too. Seems like they wanted to include "free" shipping in the price, but didn't want to ship to any place that would eat too much of their margin. I'm sure they'll open up once there's more supply than demand.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I get that and am used to it at this point, but it rubs me the wrong way that there's now a wait period until later in the year and there wasn't even the option of pre-ordering or having for release date in Canada. Tired of the second-hand treatment.

 

[DiscoThunder]

I'm going with this instead of triplescreen for my simrig setup

 

[1-D_FE]

Yeah, I get that and am used to it at this point, but it rubs me the wrong way that there's now a wait period until later in the year and there wasn't even the option of pre-ordering or having for release date in Canada. Tired of the second-hand treatment.

Click to shrink...

They certainly would have generated a lot more goodwill if they would have just allowed these territories to order and then tacked on a shipping surcharge. Most people would have preferred a surcharge over nothing.

 

[Kanhir]

I have a Rift, so I'm used to having front-facing camera sensors on either side of my TV. Can you do the same with Vive/Index base stations, or does one have to be behind you?