I honstly can't get across how unappealing this pricing is, considering my expectation that the goal would be a more mainstream product.
nope, the controllers sinc with lighthouse base stations AND lighthouse compatible headsets (Vive, Vive Pro, Pixmax, index and some others I dont know the name of off the top of my head). plus Steam VR doesn't support two tracking solutions at the same timeHmm, can you use Valve Index controllers with the Oculus Rift?
Hyperbole... I'm not asking for "every single peripheral". I'm asking for something that justifies why that big empty spot is there. Did they just have the space in the design and figured "why not"? I know they said it's for tinkerers, but it just seems awfully elaborate for that. It's weird that they don't have anything for it themselves.
The index is far cheaper than the Vive pro and is allround a better headset
I want it. But I'll never convince the wife at that price.The index is far cheaper than the Vive pro and is allround a better headset
I'm not doing drive bys. Heck I want it bad. Can't afford it. But I hope it's amazing for everyone who can afford it and that Valve has some awesome original content.
They are updated versions (larger FOV and longer range so you can have a 400% larger player space), you can still use the index with the old lighthouse stations as far as I know (they are not that much cheaper than the index base stations off the HTC website)Are these base stations similar to the regular Vive light houses/base stations?
It's clearly an enthusiast grade product. I'm a little dissapointed, seeing how big this is for VR, they aren't taking less profit. But, there's a lot of other significantly cheaper options on PC. Samsung Oddyssey, Oculus Rif and Rift S. Are all sub $400 kits. That are a huge improvement over something like PSVR.I'm not doing drive bys. Heck I want it bad. Can't afford it. But I hope it's amazing for everyone who can afford it and that Valve has some awesome original content.
Are these base stations similar to the regular Vive light houses/base stations?
There will be less eye strain for a start, this thing has the potential to be much more comfortable on the eyes overall, as long as the lenses don't get in the way.
Yeah that's what I'm feeling. It's like an awesome ride comes out and you're too short to ride.It's clearly an enthusiast grade product. I'm a little dissapointed, seeing how big this is for VR, they aren't taking less profit. But, there's a lot of other significantly cheaper options on PC. Samsung Oddyssey, Oculus Rif and Rift S. Are all sub $400 kits. That are a huge improvement over something like PSVR.
Correct, V1 are forwards compatible, V2 are not backwards compatible. Unless you have a massive space, I don't see V1 being an issue though, I've never had even the slightest problem unless I walked out of the lighthouses arcs at all. And that means I was doing it intentionally as it covers nearly the entire room.They are updated versions, you can still use the index with the old lighthouse stations as far as I know
Yes: 11:34Did they state anywhere if the integrated headphones are able to come off? As great as I'm sure they sound I would prefer to use my over the head wireless ones instead.
These are the 2.0 base stations, as opposed to the 1.0 base stations with the Vive.Are these base stations similar to the regular Vive light houses/base stations?
They're version 2 of the original lighthouses. Clearer info here: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/index/base-stations
Yea, It might be the best bet to buy a used Vive for now, get the knuckles later. You can probably get a Vive setup for like $200-300 from the right people.Yeah that's what I'm feeling. It's like an awesome ride comes out and you're too short to ride.
Thanks. I have a regular Vive... may consider this headset. This is an expensive hobby...
because they did not specifically talk abut index. its about the "mass market adaptation". their goal is not that with the index. Valve is laying out a lot of groundwork with the index and their VR technologies and software to make those happen.https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...-of-vrs-first-generation-but-is-it-worth-999/
Finally got around to reading it. That's a good article. Feel better about the actual HMD. Might pick up the HMD later this year. Although until compelling software is actually shown for Knuckles, I've become pretty apathetic about them at this price.
Valve's event began with a presentation that kept coming back to "three pillars." If VR is going to reach mass-market penetration, Valve said, the hardware landscape has to cross three specific thresholds simultaneously: affordability, low friction, and high performance.
Definitely a bizarre sales pitch on Valve's part. Why indeed. Fail horribly at two of the three pillars and that's your pitch?
It doesn't bother me either. The Vive does a great job, but its not perfect - I can see the limits of the 90hz strobbing from outside the headset at a distance (I use a 120hz-480hz scanning display every day). People can have problems for any number of reasons. 120hz/144hz low persistence will help to alleviate the problem in the same way that 85hz-90hz+ CRTs were a big improvement over 60hz CRTs.Has anyone actually had eye strain issues with the Vive? It's not a complaint I've ever heard, and it's never been an issue for me.
It doesn't bother me either. The Vive does a great job, but its not perfect - I can see limits of the 90hz strobbing from outside the headset at a distance (I use a 120hz-480hz scanning display every day). People can have problems for any number of reasons. 120hz/144hz low persistence will help to alleviate the problem in the same way that 85hz-90hz+ CRTs were a big improvement over 60hz CRTs.
The lower hz the backlight strobes, the harder it is on your eyes, consciously or unconsciously. Higher is always better, and we should be running higher that we already are for VR. 240hz, 480hz, 960hz - that high. The fps, doesn't have be that high though (would be ideal).
Because refresh rates, resolution, and DP/HDMI cable specs/chips are a balancing act, we're not quite there. The higher the refresh rate, the higher the power requirement, the higher the instability of the panels, the higher heat output, etc. That also doesn't count other stuff like HDR brightness requirements, which would complicate things substantially.
Reaching a reasonable price point was never their goal. Their goal was making the best headset they can make.I'm curious as to why this project wasn't just quietly scrapped since they could not reach a reasonable price point.
I think the big news here is that Sony is going to enjoy at least 2 to 3 more years of complete dominance in consumer VR, while Oculus is poised to own the entirety of consumer PCVR.
Paging Dr. Durante
So keeping Pimax, or selling pimax for this new headset?
Pimax vs Index
Pros
Higher FOV
Massive Sweet Spot
Higher resolution
Single Cable Display Port
Works with Gen 1 and 2 Lighthouses
Cons
Third Party
lower Refresh Rate
higher persistence
Probably won't be wireless capable anytime soon
Edit: I'll probably keep it in the interim at the very least, can always sell it later, but what do you guys think (For those of you with Pimax) will be your new main HMD?
Reaching a reasonable price point was never their goal. Their goal was making the best headset they can make.
They said even a few years ago that VR has to be as good as it can be, before it becomes a cheap mainstream product.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...-of-vrs-first-generation-but-is-it-worth-999/
Finally got around to reading it. That's a good article. Feel better about the actual HMD. Might pick up the HMD later this year. Although until compelling software is actually shown for Knuckles, I've become pretty apathetic about them at this price.
Valve's event began with a presentation that kept coming back to "three pillars." If VR is going to reach mass-market penetration, Valve said, the hardware landscape has to cross three specific thresholds simultaneously: affordability, low friction, and high performance.
Definitely a bizarre sales pitch on Valve's part. Why indeed. Fail horribly at two of the three pillars and that's your pitch?
"Literally no future", eh? Tell us more about the future. What else do your fortune-telling powers predict? Why don't you don't think there's a market for high-end VR?I wasn't expecting them to fight for the 400$ market bracket, but going above the 800$ means this thing has literally no future to speak of.
I'm still unsure if I'll get the Index HMD. If it used (RGB) OLED panels (or was cheaper) I'd be a lot more interested.Paging Dr. Durante
So keeping Pimax, or selling pimax for this new headset?
Pimax vs Index
Pros
Higher FOV
Massive Sweet Spot
Higher resolution
Single Cable Display Port
Works with Gen 1 and 2 Lighthouses
Cons
Third Party
lower Refresh Rate
higher persistence
Probably won't be wireless capable anytime soon
Edit: I'll probably keep it in the interim at the very least, can always sell it later, but what do you guys think (For those of you with Pimax) will be your new main HMD?
I don't think that, realistically, you'd be losing 70° of FoV.Personally I'd have a hard time giving up the Pimax FOV. I've used an Oculus Go since I got my Pimax, and it's like looking through a porthole. This would be better than Go of course, but still... losing 70 degrees of FOV doesn't seem worth it.
I do want the Index controllers, specifically for playing Oculus games, I think that's the perfect addition to the Pimax until they get their own controllers out.
The Pimax at "normal" setting (I don't consider "large" all that usable, personally) renders a 140° horizontal FoV. With this promising "20° more" than existing HMDs (which render between ~90° (Rift CV1) and ~108° (Vive, but only visible with aftermarket thin foam), you're probably looking at ~115° horizontal for the Index.
We'll know for sure once people get theirs and look at the numbers.
Even if they could work with any headset, the problem is that they won't work without base stations.if someone can get these controllers work with my headset... man fuck that I would pay the $279 for these bad boys. (or wait for a sale...lol)
With a low-persistence display, the frame rate must be synchronized to the refresh rate. If it is not in sync with the refresh rate you get bad stuttering and multiple images displayed.The lower hz the backlight strobes, the harder it is on your eyes, consciously or unconsciously. Higher is always better, and we should be running higher that we already are for VR. 240hz, 480hz, 960hz - that high. The fps doesn't have be that high though (would be ideal).
I'm waiting to hear about the sweet spot and lenses, the Pimax is great in this regard. I don't want to give that up, but the high framerate and low persistence, in the Vive Ecosystem which means it's less prone to future software issues/incompatibilities. As far as the FOV, like you said 140 degrees is what we generally can actually use. So it's fairly comparable right?I'm still unsure if I'll get the Index HMD. If it used (RGB) OLED panels (or was cheaper) I'd be a lot more interested.
As is, I'll probably go with a Pimax HMD + Valve Index Controllers + HTC base stations setup -- which, if nothing else, is a very modular "PC" approach ;)
I don't think that, realistically, you'd be losing 70° of FoV.
The Pimax at "normal" setting (I don't consider "large" all that usable, personally) renders a 140° horizontal FoV. With this promising "20° more" than existing HMDs (which render between ~90° (Rift CV1) and ~108° (Vive, but only visible with aftermarket thin foam), you're probably looking at ~115° horizontal for the Index.
We'll know for sure once people get theirs and look at the numbers.