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CountAntonio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,723
PC Gamer

Earlier this year, a community survey of nearly 3,800 League of Legends players found that 79 percent of them had been harassed after a match, in manners ranging from outbursts of obscenities and repeated friend requests to, almost exclusively for players who identify as women, sexual harassment. Unsurprisingly, while slightly more men than women reported being the target of "general abuse"—flaming, racist slurs, or friend invite spam—women were far more likely to be the target of sexual harassment: 32 percent reported receiving "sexual remarks or propositions" after a game, compared to just three percent of male players.

Also unsurprisingly, it appears that those bad habits are carrying over into Riot's new game, competitive shooter Valorant. Last week, League of Legends and Teamfight Tactics UX designer Riot Greenily shared a clip of Valorant gameplay in which she was repeatedly propositioned by a male player, saying that "it's like this most of the time on solo queue voice comms regardless of the game I'm playing."

The tweets prompted Valorant executive producer Anna Donlon to say in response that due to her own experiences with online toxicity she doesn't play solo at all—quite a statement from someone who, prior to her five years at Riot, spent a decade at Treyarch as a producer on the Call of Duty series.




"With any competitive game, we expect spirits to get high and things to get tense—we're not going to ban someone just because they got passionate about winning or losing. But I also know that some experiences can go beyond enthusiasm; sometimes they extend into harassment. That's what I'm not okay with. The reality is that, for the harassed, it can be challenging to play a game competitively because you need to first protect yourself from 'inviting' harassment, and so you mute someone because they're screaming slurs into the mic, or you mute yourself because that seems to keep the peace," Donlon said in a statement.

"We know this is a hard problem to tackle, and will take time, but I'd feel irresponsible accepting this as the status quo. It's why we prioritized developing non-voice communications, like character voice callouts for game events (like seeing the enemy with the spike) and the in-game ping system. But that's just the start, we will continue to prioritize and invest resources into this space. I hold myself accountable to leading a game where anyone can safely compete to their full potential without fear of being bullied out or yelled down. It's a very aspirational goal, but please check back in with us down the road and we'll keep the conversation going."
More at Link above
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Awful reality and something I hope devs keep trying to fight even though it seems like an incredibly hard battle.
 

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
This is why the vast majority of girls that i know are a) never using a mic or b) only plays with the same premade group on every game.

We're in 2020 and terrible stuff like this still happens. This is insane.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,591
It's a damn shame someone can't enjoy their own work to the fullest because their own community has so many shitheads.
 

SuperBanana

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,743
There should be real-time reporting. Fuck reporting at the end of the match. Report as soon as it happens and mods can review the exact moment. Instant ban for shit like this. Devs need to be more aggressive to root out this culture.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,583
This is why I don't own a mic.

Every game should have an option to start a lobby with everyone already muted.
 
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TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,246
There should be real-time reporting. Fuck reporting at the end of the match. Report as soon as it happens and mods can review the exact moment. Instant ban for shit like this. Devs need to be more aggressive to root out this culture.
Dev teams, producers, the public faces of these companies, their social media outlets. Highlight this shit, call it out, demonize it.

Provide no safe havens. Voice chat is perpetually on mute in games because of this kind of nonsense.
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,431
This is why I don't own a mic.

Every game should have an option to start a lobby with muted.
the unfortunate thing is that these games are lot more fun when you can actually communicate with your team. For me that's half the fun, which just makes this worse.

I think that tactical FPS's and MOBAs are probably the most toxic towards women out of all the major esport genres (maybe card games are the most friendly?). There's no reason that women cant compete in these games but the toxicity is actually insane. I remember watching some really good women compete in ESEA CSGO at a semipro level and they all invariably quit due to constant harassment in PUGs. Imagine being four leagues above your teammates and you still get harassed every time you queue. Only way to fix it is with strict moderation.
 

Filipus

Prophet of Regret
Avenger
Dec 7, 2017
5,132
I play Call of Duty and from time to time get an idiot (or a team of idiots) just saying the most awful stuff on the microphone.
I immediately report obviously but it's not rare to see these people still playing days after me reporting them.


How do dev teams evaluate stuff said on an open mic? Are they recording everything people say? If they do, do these people not get banned simply because there's not enough people looking into reports? (Or the teams don't care?)
 

spartan112g

Banned
May 5, 2018
813
That sucks. My favorite part of multiplayer games is solo-que'ing with randoms when my friends aren't on and talking with them. Sometimes find cool people and run a few games with them. Went on a 7 win-streak on Apex with some randoms I met.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
Every competitive game tends to go this way and you sometimes get a "the player you reported has had action taken against them" or something, but then you see them in another game. Did this guy lose his beta access at least?
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,423
Australia
Public voice chat is a cesspool in just about every game that supports it. Moderation is useful to a degree, but new potential jackasses start playing online games every single day. It's always going to be an uphill struggle.

I feel like it really may just be one of the situations where the only way to win is not to play.
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,159
Those replies are infuriating because he puts such little effort into being a piece of trash. there's nothing you can do to win in that scenario. I really hope that devs can pull out a user ID like this and permanently ban his Riot account. It should absolutely be the case that people like this are made examples of.

I know sometimes devs reply to posts when they go on reddit like this, but I feel like scenarios like this 100% deserve a no tolerance policy as opposed to temporary bans.
 

jwhit28

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,052
Make voice chat be an earned thing through a honor system. It would be the only way to avoid throwaway accounts.
 

Xbox Live Mike

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,435
USA
Reporting systems need to be enhanced. There is to much cheating and harassment in online games And I feel too many devs shrug and do nothing/little about it.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,176
Indonesia
Is there an app that alters your voice to someone else's (in this case, a dude)?

That would fix half of the problem, assuming you're not live streaming with a video on.
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
Absolutely in favor of burning out racist and sexual harassment. Just burn it down, make it clear a ban is in the works if they persist. Sadly, lower ranks probably won't matter much for bans, but we can at least stamp out this on higher ranks where the account progression is more important. (And those who spend money on the game, we can absolutely threaten their accounts)
 

Garrett 2U

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,511
I don't have experience with Valorant, but my girlfriend and I used to play a lot of League of Legends together, which is another free Riot Game. The amount of harassment and verbal abuse my girlfriend would receive (through text), simply for having a vaguely feminine username, was disgusting.

It's one of the downsides of free-to-play, it's hard to moderate a game community if you can't remove those troublesome members.
 
Jun 17, 2018
3,244
That's a real shame, that guy sounded genuinely creepy too. If I'm not in a team of friends, voice chat goes off, with the exception being Hell Let Loose (awesome community). I don't need that shit in my life.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,603
I would start banning people en masse, but of course, it might result in lower profits.

Riot's community is arguably one of the worst in the history of gaming, aggregate. Stamping it out could be devastating for them financially, so the higher ups won't.
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
Shame too, cause I'd rather hear females talk than males.
I would start banning people en masse, but of course, it might result in lower profits.

Riot's community is arguably one of the worst in the history of gaming, aggregate. Stamping it out could be devastating for them financially, so the higher ups won't.

Instead of banning you could permanently mute them
 

MegaBeefBowl

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,890
I don't know how you even begin to fix this.

Society is misogynistic and racist, so naturally it bleeds into gaming comms. I have no idea how to combat this in game in a meaningful way, especially when it comes to live voice comms. I wish there was a solution, but this isn't like text chat where typing something against TOS can result in an immediate ban (Rainbow Six Siege does this, IIRC). Just seems like a moderation nightmare.

Maybe we could develop voice recognition software that could identify certain words, but there's no way it would be accurate enough.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
I don't know how you even begin to fix this.

Society is misogynistic and racist, so naturally it bleeds into gaming comms. I have no idea how to combat this in game in a meaningful way, especially when it comes to live voice comms. I wish there was a solution, but this isn't like text chat where typing something against TOS can result in an immediate ban (Rainbow Six Siege does this, IIRC). Just seems like a moderation nightmare.

Maybe we could develop voice recognition software that could identify certain words, but there's no way it would be accurate enough.

Replays should record voice coms. I think CS used to do this way back with HLTV
 

monketron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,859
Sadly you'll never stop people being dicks to others over voice comms. Unless you force people to link their real names to accounts, I don't think that's a route most people would be comfortable going down.

Every game should prioritise their UI to make it really easy and really quick to mute someone, so many games hide away this feature or make the menu so slow to load it's just not worth the effort, if they even include it at all. Put it front and centre with a UI that instantly loads when you need it.
 

monketron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,859
Replays should record voice coms. I think CS used to do this way back with HLTV

No company is really going to want to become the gatekeeper for everything someone says over their mic. The expense alone would be huge, yet alone privacy issues. Recording and storing sound off an open MIC would be extremely difficult under EU laws and judging by history would go down like a lead balloon with the general public.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
No company is really going to want to become the gatekeeper for everything someone says over their mic. The expense alone would be huge, yet alone privacy issues. Recording and storing sound off an open MIC would be extremely difficult under EU laws and judging by history would go down like a lead balloon with the general public.

yeah.... guess we have to just record every game. I do it anyway in case of getting some good clipworthy plays, but being able to report people that way is becoming more viable.
 

CalamityPixel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,810
I refuse to play with voice chat nowadays, it seems like a lot people just go online to harass others :( I always report people who harasses someone just trying to play, but fight now it feels like a winless battle.
 

Deleted member 56457

User requested account closure
Banned
May 3, 2019
245
I love the game but the toxicity is a big issue. I will be keeping a distance & playing pubs for fun. I hit platinum on league & can continue climbing but the toxicity at that level just gets me frustrated as well and I have been resorting to just normal games lately. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Both of Riots games are toxic due to the competitveness I guess. Some people really do take the fun out of the game which is sad because I'm really competitive but not toxic towards my teammates.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,829
I'm a white male and I've reached the point in which I disable all voicechat options and I don't play ranked.

I'm 34 and I can't deal with this shit. And I didn't either when I was younger, it's not a matter of getting older but just my education. Mysoginy, racism, hate, yelling...I wasn't taught to live with that. They told me to treat everyone the same as I'd like to be treated.

I think that if I were a woman or a minority I wouldn't play online at all.

All of this makes me sad. When online gaming took off with CS, Diablo 2, PSO and the like it wasn't like this. Or I don't remember it.
 

Nekyrrev

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,123
It's the sad truth of every competitive team-based game. Personally I don't really care when it happens to me, it makes me laugh when random people insult me, I don't know them and they don't know me.
But I can totally understand that it would be a huge issue for others and especially for women that are having it way harder. Focusing on non-vocal ways of communication is a good first-step but we'll need a report option too.
 

Martinski

Member
Jan 15, 2019
8,424
Göteborg
In MW you can choose to only hear your premade party or people in your friend list when using voice chat. Which is a smart idea.

Every game since forever has been plagued with shitty people spewing shit into their mics. Riots other game LoL is extremely toxic in the text chat in almost every solo que game.
 

A Grizzly Bear

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,096
I really wish they would allow me to mute text chat by default in the options in Valorant. The voice has been pretty tame for me, but the text chat is where the real winners have shown up.

I love the game but the toxicity is a big issue. I will be keeping a distance & playing pubs for fun. I hit platinum on league & can continue climbing but the toxicity at that level just gets me frustrated as well and I have been resorting to just normal games lately. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Both of Riots games are toxic due to the competitveness I guess. Some people really do take the fun out of the game which is sad because I'm really competitive but not toxic towards my teammates.
People need to stop assigning toxicity to specific games. This is an issue with all online competitive games that allow voice or text chat and it's really just a reflection of how shitty some people are in general. That guy in the clip doesn't only treat women like shit in Valorant.
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,434
They don't seem to care about their toxicity problem in LoL, don't why it would change for Valorant. Hard to believe they cleaned up their act internally if they tolerate harassment en toxicity in their games. Shame cause Valorant and Runeterra look kinda cool but I just don't feel like playing games from that company as is.

(And, yes, I know there's no voice chat in the card game)
 

Jogi

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,452
Yeah I hardly play mp games with mic , but got a code for Valorant and figured I'd give it a shot. Third game, about 2 hours since the beta started, and I was yelled at for most of the match and told I should kill myself multiple times. Shits unreal...in a beta thats been going for two hours. Far too many great games to deal with that shit.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,411
The stuff said towards people (women moreso than men) in online games is sickening.

Oddly enough, I actually had a very positive experience in a Valorant group today that happened to have a woman playing. Everyone was respectful of each other and nobody made any weird advances on the woman. It's always so odd to me when I'm using public voice comms and everyone treats each other with respect. It's so foreign to me.
 

Nekyrrev

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,123
They don't seem to care about their toxicity problem in LoL, don't why it would change for Valorant.
I don't really think that's fair. They do care about it in LoL but it's still very hard to tackle at the scale of a game as popular as this one.
They have a decent ping system in-game, lots of people are getting banned thanks to their report option and they have a "honour player" page at the end of every match where you can thumbs up a friendly ally. If you get enough honour you can unlock some things, gotta admit I forgot what it was.

It's not perfect of course, far from it, but I don't think it's fair to say that they don't care. They know it's a huge issue that is preventing some people to play.
 

Texan365

Member
Oct 27, 2017
146
Has any game ever tried "shadow-muting" people, so that they think they are still being toxic, but they are actually just talking to themselves? It might keep some people from making a new account due to being banned. It somewhat works on reddit, where if you go to a toxic person's post history it shows them making toxic posts, but those posts never actually show up to other users.
 

KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,261
Absolutly disgusting and unfortunately expected from an online community like that.
I'm hoping the solutions Anna Donlon is talking about are actually coming and not just band-aid solutions like simple reporting.

As for people who said it sucks that you can only report people at the end of a match:
You can press ESC during a Valorant match and report people right there. I think you can even mute people from there but I'm not 100% sure.
It's not a fix but it's better than having to put up with for the duration of the match.

I'm glad my friends are also interested in this. We're basically playing in groups of 3-5 exclusively and the experience is above and beyond compared to solo-Q.
Not playing a single match without friends anymore.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,580
Racoon City
"Why don't people talk in game party chat"

Because they don't feel like being harassed by shit people.

It's doubly worse for women, and if they're a WoC? It's hell. All of the women I game with never leave party chat, they don't want to risk it
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,312
Blocking all communication (messages or friend requests) and muting all players, is the only way I can enjoy playing online. Can't help but think how women go through harshest stuff if they forget to mute their mics or something, it's bullshit.

"Why don't people talk in game party chat"
When these kind of threads show up and you get another "oh man I used to love being an asshole to people in Gears of War and MW2", I'll automatically assume they're American white straight males.
 

SigSig

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,777
This is a hard one, and it can only be solved through a culture change forced by massive moderation efforts. Communication is essential to team-based games. Sure, make it opt-out in pubs, but refusing to communicate will just ruin everyone's experience (and probably further foster the toxic atmosphere). Instead, we need to moderate that shit with extreme prejudice. Report a player, send their audio, drop them into the worst queue you can find so they can rot there with cheaters and other scum.
 

Shudouken

Member
Jun 19, 2019
793
I think the way Nintendo did it with Splatoon was pretty alright.
Give you a couple built in comm options like "this way" to strategize mid match.

If you want to voice chat as a team, where it actually matters, you can use discord and other means.
Not much strategizing going on in voice chats with strangers anyway imho.