Vaccines intentionally removed from refrigerator at Grafton hospital. More than 500 doses of the vaccine had to be thrown out.

laoni · Dec 31, 2020

Senator Toadstool said:
Aren't these a lot different than normal vaccine fridges? like these are dry ice level. you're food isn't going to be edible if you put it in these

Moderna's vaccine needs to be transported at -20C (-4F) (Pfizer's is -70C (-94F)) and then can be stored at a regular fridge temp for up to 30 days. They also say that their vaccine can be left at room temp for 12hrs.

Moderna Announces Longer Shelf Life for its COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate at Refrigerated Temperatures | Moderna, Inc.

Vaccine candidate now expected to remain stable at standard refrigerator temperatures of 2° to 8°C (36° to 46°F) for 30 days, up from previous estimate of 7 days Shipping and long-term storage conditions at standard freezer temperatures of -20°C (-4°F) for 6 months mRNA-1273 to be distributed using

investors.modernatx.com

finalflame · Dec 31, 2020

Senator Toadstool said:
Aren't these a lot different than normal vaccine fridges? like these are dry ice level. you're food isn't going to be edible if you put it in these

You're thinking of the Pfizer vaccine which needs to be kept at -70C. The Moderna vaccine only has to be kept at -20C, or -4F, which is within the range of a regular-ass freezer.

Edit: Poster above me answered in more/better detail :)

grand · Dec 31, 2020

Senator Toadstool said:
They literally said it was intentionally removed and the person admitted to it ...

Intent doesn't prove malice

Lobster Roll · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
Intent doesn't prove malice

What, you think they were making room for their leftovers from lunch?

Nepenthe · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
Removing it on purpose doesn't necessarily mean it was malicious. For instance, they could have been ignorant and not realized the vaccine was temperature controlled. Until the internal review is complete, we can't really judge the why & how of the situation.

Even assuming it wasn't on purpose, this is just not how it works. Medical fridges are marked. Healthcare training includes protocol about storing vaccinations that need to be refrigerated. And it is obvious- just from the ubiquitousness of refrigerators- that anything that comes out of one has to go back in. My seven year old nephew knows to put fucking orange juice back in the fridge; a healthcare professional is not going to be ignorant enough to take a vaccine out of the fridge and not also understand it needs to be returned in a timely manner. Like, come on.

MIMIC · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
Intent doesn't prove malice

The news clip says that the hospital says that the employee "purposefully sabotaged" the doses.

Vaccines intentionally removed from hospital refrigerator, employee fired

The person who left 57 vials of the Moderna vaccine out of a pharmacy refrigerator at Aurora Medical Center- Grafton did so intentionally, Advocate Aurora Health said.

www.wisn.com

finalflame · Dec 31, 2020

MIMIC said:
The news clip says that the hospital says that the employee "purposefully sabotaged" the doses.

Vaccines intentionally removed from hospital refrigerator, employee fired

The person who left 57 vials of the Moderna vaccine out of a pharmacy refrigerator at Aurora Medical Center- Grafton did so intentionally, Advocate Aurora Health said.

www.wisn.com

Yup, this report makes it clear as day.

This person needs to be fined, prosecuted, and punished to the fullest extent of the law. Fuck this shit. Not sure why anyone here is trying to "what if" or cast doubt on the intentions of the criminal.

Senator Toadstool · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
Intent doesn't prove malice

what other intent would there be but to do harm (which is literally the definition of malice)? and malice, legally, can be implied, not literally admitted to. What else would you imply? and " reckless" acts can impute malice

Intentionally left it open but didn't mean to ruin the vaccines? this is the hospital using words very specifically (likely written by their lawyers for liability) so they don't say they have someone sabotaging their viruses

grand · Dec 31, 2020

MIMIC said:
The news clip says that the hospital says that the employee "purposefully sabotaged" the doses.

Vaccines intentionally removed from hospital refrigerator, employee fired

The person who left 57 vials of the Moderna vaccine out of a pharmacy refrigerator at Aurora Medical Center- Grafton did so intentionally, Advocate Aurora Health said.

www.wisn.com

I don't see them saying purposefully sabotage in the article.

Edit: oh! The article updated with the 9pm news video segment. Yeah, "purposefully sabotaged" is pretty cut & dry. I rescind my previous objections. Fuck that mystery person

laoni · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
I don't see them saying purposefully sabotage in the article

It's in the actual news report video, not the text

Senator Toadstool · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
I don't see them saying purposefully sabotage in the article

read the post above. this is first year crim/tort law stuff.

Mechaplum · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
Intent doesn't prove malice

Lmao.

Loudninja · Dec 31, 2020

Yep I can understand leaving some out but that many? come on

grand · Dec 31, 2020

laoni said:
It's in the actual news report video, not the text

Yep. The 9pm news update confirmed it. The mystery person is gonna get what's coming to them

Senator Toadstool · Dec 31, 2020

and whoops! or "I didn't know" isn't a legal excuse. its a reasonable person standard which is objective

Deleted member 76797 · Dec 31, 2020

its like people want the virus to be around forever

blows my fucking mind

grand · Dec 31, 2020

Senator Toadstool said:
read the post above. this is first year crim/tort law stuff.

I mean, you're right if the source was a court document. But the original source was a tweet followed by an incomplete news article (that has since been updated). The standards of court obviously didn't apply with the original reporting.

KtSlime · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
Removing it on purpose doesn't necessarily mean it was malicious. For instance, they could have been ignorant and not realized the vaccine was temperature controlled. Until the internal review is complete, we can't really judge the why & how of the situation.

Why does this person have the authority to remove something from refrigeration if they don't have knowledge of if it needs it or not?

Bio-Frost · Dec 31, 2020

Senator Toadstool said:
Aren't these a lot different than normal vaccine fridges? like these are dry ice level. you're food isn't going to be edible if you put it in these

Maybe? The fridge in question i was talking about wasnt for covid tho, it was for flu vaccines. Just brought it up to shows peoples incompetence when it comes to these things.

Dalek · Dec 31, 2020

laoni said:
It's in the actual news report video, not the text

Oh. I was so confused re-reading the article.

grand · Dec 31, 2020

KtSlime said:
Why does this person have the authority to remove something from refrigeration if they don't have knowledge of if it needs it or not?

Because:

Bio-Frost said:
Maybe? The fridge in question wasnt for covid tho, it was for flu vaccines. Just brought it up to shows peoples incompetence when it comes to these things.

Of course, subsequent reporting has described it as purposeful sabotage so the the point is moot. But vaccines are typically delegated to low level medical professionals so the destruction of such wouldn't be THAT shocking in the medical field (though it would lead to termination, as it did immediately). It's the admittance of "purposeful sabotage" that makes this newsworthy.

Dyle · Dec 31, 2020

The finest example of Midwestern nice. Things were going relatively ok lately here so we just had to screw it up. With this I'm sure we'll end up seeing the post-holiday spike in cases Wisconsin managed to avoid with Thanksgiving

KtSlime · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
Because:

Of course, subsequent reporting has described it as purposeful sabotage so the the point is moot. But vaccines are typically delegated to low level medical professionals so the destruction of such wouldn't be THAT shocking in the medical field (though it would lead to termination, as it did immediately). It's the admittance of "purposeful sabotage" that makes this newsworthy.

We have a fridge at work and wouldn't dare remove something from it without permission; and I work in IT/programming. I can't imagine anyone removing something that is not theirs from a hospital fridge, let alone vaccines where are clearly there for some purpose, if I understand the reason or not.

DeltaRed · Dec 31, 2020

Throw their ass in jail

Damaniel · Dec 31, 2020

Polymerization said:
anti-vaxx terrorism

Yep. Toss them in jail forever - their actions could easily end up killing people.

Uhyve · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
Intent doesn't prove malice

Yeah, they probably removed 57 vials of vaccine from a medical refrigerator for good reason.

grand · Dec 31, 2020

KtSlime said:
We have a fridge at work and wouldn't dare remove something from it without permission; and I work in IT/programming. I can't imagine anyone removing something that is not theirs from a hospital fridge, let alone vaccines where are clearly there for some purpose, if I understand the reason or not.

Happens all the time in medical, sadly enough

Uhyve said:
Yeah, she probably removed 57 vials of vaccine from a medical refrigerator for good reason.

She?

Uhyve · Dec 31, 2020

grand said:
She?

Oops, I don't see that reported anywhere. Fixed now.

Edit: Ah, someone said 'she' on the first page, I guess I assumed they were correct, my bad.

Billfisto · Dec 31, 2020

Into the sun!

grand said:
Intent doesn't prove malice

"Officer, I thought they were more aesthetically pleasing on the counter."

grand · Dec 31, 2020

OHHHHHH

Now I know why there is so much confusion in this thread. If you click the direct link in the bottom of the OP you'll get an article with a video describing the event as human error. But if you click the link in the quote itself, you'll get the same article but with a different video describing the event as a purposeful sabotage.

Tigress · Dec 31, 2020

Do we know it was because the person was an anti vaccine? Granted I'm not sure what other reason they would have but then people are weird and you can never fully guess their intentions.

Basically I'm just wanting to know why they removed the vaccines and if the articles said it was cause the person was an anti vaccer I missed it.

mbpm · Dec 31, 2020

Well it's a good thing we have so many of them /s

Xbox Live Mike · Dec 31, 2020

As someone in Wisconsin I'm not surprised it was on propose. I had a nurse here tell me she wasn't taking the vaccine (how it isn't a requirement I don't know) I had another nurse come into my store saying she didn't have to wear a mask because she had Covid already and was immune, had to ask her to leave. So just because someone is a medical professional (or say they are) doesn't mean they know right. That said I bet it was a pharmacy tech that didn't require a degree.

Lakitu · Dec 31, 2020

I cannot express how much I detest anti-vaxxers.

If you are a dumb fuck that chooses not to take them then OK but do not force your bullshit on the rest of us. Ultimately they have potentially costed the lives of 500 vulnerable people that needed it.

Fuck you and throw the idiot in prison.

psynergyadept · Dec 31, 2020

Blacklist this person; never should be able to work in medicine again.

Starwing · Dec 31, 2020

Hoo boy, this gonna be one of those times, isn't it? Some of these folks are really gonna make it hard for the rest of us.

grand said:
OHHHHHH

Now I know why there is so much confusion in this thread. If you click the direct link in the bottom of the OP you'll get an article with a video describing the event as human error. But if you click the link in the quote itself, you'll get the same article but with a different video describing the event as a purposeful sabotage.

Yeah, the way it update the story was a bit confusing for me too, at first. Had to re-read it a few times to get the latest on it.

Foffy · Dec 31, 2020

What on fucking earth is holding this country together? Every fucking direction you look and you see disarray and mismanagement on something so fucking simple to tackle.

Kard8p3 · Dec 31, 2020

Bio-Frost said:
My mom is a nurse and more than once had to yell at people becuse they would use the vaccine fridge for food and then not close it all the way thus ruining all the injections.

Not exactly like this situation but i just makes me think this happens alot

This would literally freeze their food though... most vaccine fridges are in the negatives...

finalflame said:
You're thinking of the Pfizer vaccine which needs to be kept at -70C. The Moderna vaccine only has to be kept at -20C, or -4F, which is within the range of a regular-ass freezer.

Edit: Poster above me answered in more/better detail :)

Even fridges used for OTHER vaccines are still in the low negatives, makes no sense to put food in one if you were planning to eat it soon.

mbpm · Dec 31, 2020

Foffy said:
What on fucking earth is holding this country together?

A shared delusion, surely.

acheron_xl · Dec 31, 2020

I'm sure they were probably going to waste them flailing about for 'qualified' people to vaccinate anyway.

finalflame · Dec 31, 2020

Kard8p3 said:
Even fridges used for OTHER vaccines are still in the low negatives, makes no sense to put food in one if you were planning to eat it soon.

Well yah.

Nobody is saying this person took the vaccines out for their food as far ad I can tell. Just the one poster here sharing an anecdote from a parent that it happens with other medical fridges. Nothing really indicates it's the case here.

deathkiller · Dec 31, 2020

MIMIC said:
The news clip says that the hospital says that the employee "purposefully sabotaged" the doses.

Vaccines intentionally removed from hospital refrigerator, employee fired

The person who left 57 vials of the Moderna vaccine out of a pharmacy refrigerator at Aurora Medical Center- Grafton did so intentionally, Advocate Aurora Health said.

www.wisn.com

I think that is better if the OP/title quotes this. "Intentionally" leaves the reason ambiguous.

a916 · Dec 31, 2020

There's incredibly stupid and selfish people out there and this clown definitely ranks high on that list. Firing should be the start of it... we're in the middle of a pandemic.

nekkid · Dec 31, 2020

finalflame said:
Not sure why anyone here is trying to "what if" or cast doubt on the intentions of the criminal.

Because there was a statement in there somewhere that says they removed it to access something else, and also referring to "human error" as well as "purposefully sabotaged". It's been pretty unclear reporting, so it's unfair to criticise anyone here for wondering either way.

finalflame · Dec 31, 2020

nekkid said:
Because there was a statement in there somewhere that says they removed it to access something else, and also referring to "human error". It's been pretty unclear reporting, so it's unfair to criticise anyone here for wondering either way.

Just feels people are trying really hard to be dense and make up hypothetical excuses for someone who just destroyed 500 potentially life saving doses of vaccine.

either way we should have more information soon.

nekkid · Dec 31, 2020

finalflame said:
Just feels people are trying really hard to be dense and make up hypothetical excuses.

either way we should have more information soon.

Hypothetical excuses? Or just reading the words?

KtSlime · Dec 31, 2020

nekkid said:
Hypothetical excuses? Or just reading the words?

I think it comes down to 2 hypothetical situations:
1) The person is a selfish, lazy, idiot that removed the vaccines for their own selfish purposes such as making space in the fridge for their own thing and couldn't bother asking if it is okay to do so.
2) The person is a selfish, malicious, idiot that removed the vaccines for some selfish political purpose such as anti-vax, or believing covid is a conspiracy or caused by 5G.

Phendrana · Dec 31, 2020

If this was done maliciously, the person should receive jail time.

Neo C. · Dec 31, 2020

Dog-FacedPonySoldier said:
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU WORK IN HEALTHCARE AND ARE ANTI-VACCINATION

SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS SHIT

It just shows that the current education and training for healthcare workers are lacking. Immunology and infectious diseases are very low in the ranking, I read that the whole topic is done in a week within the current curriculum, whereas other topics have months of programs and exercices.

APOEERA said:
At this point, people doing stupid things like this is because it's America. I don't know if this is occurring in other countries because I would hope people elsewhere would have common sense.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's really not much better. In my country, a significant amount of healthcare workers and doctors have dismissed the severity of the virus for months, were skeptical about the effectiveness of masks and cared more about the psychological well-being than the consequential social distancing. And the vaxx-skepticism is pretty high too. This has a huge impact on the public perception, because the people ask their doctors for advice.

The only reason those opinions are now less prominent in my news-paper is because of the severity of the second wave. That doesn't mean they have changed their perception though.

Bio-Frost · Dec 31, 2020

Kard8p3 said:
This would literally freeze their food though... most vaccine fridges are in the negatives...

Thats not an issue if the food was frozen to begin with. To be cooked later in a microwave. Not sure why the argument tho its not like my mom lied about it.

Vaccines intentionally removed from refrigerator at Grafton hospital. More than 500 doses of the vaccine had to be thrown out.

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