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Using "guys" to refer to everyone
- Thread starter RPGamer92
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Wondered this myself along with "man" for singulars. I use y'all most of the time for groups. But I call a lot of people man or just use it as an expression, sometimes instinctively. Even my female SO. I don't want it to be offensive and usually it is directed towards males I'd say, but sometimes it just happens.
I also do this when I'm really feeling the buzz
This is pretty much where I'm at. Informal 'guys/lads/man' usage has basically been neutered of its gender where I live. Nobody takes issue. If they did, I'd chill out on it.
The singular of guys is still "a male" though. It is still, at its core, a masculine word.
It also only became dominant because male language dominates a lot of the time.
Surely you can understand why that bothers some people, and how the way male language does this is a rooy part of our problem with perception of gender and male as "the default"?
This thread had just reminded me that I saw the original film version of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in the cinema. It was shit.
But it was also the first time I noticed this usage of the term 'guys' as gender neutral. It seemed strange at the time, but now I use it regularly.
So, yeah. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Why did I choose to watch that movie? Probably the second worst film I've seen in the cinema after The Avengers.
But it was also the first time I noticed this usage of the term 'guys' as gender neutral. It seemed strange at the time, but now I use it regularly.
So, yeah. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Why did I choose to watch that movie? Probably the second worst film I've seen in the cinema after The Avengers.
Not my experience at all. I understand this is all anecdotal for everyone, but all of my female friends call each other dude.
Can't speak for everyone, but I definitely don't find any offense to being referred to as "you guys" when addressing a group of people. That said, I'm fine with the language evolving to have more completely non-gender specific options. "Y'all" will never feel natural to me though. Too many people I've known who've been hateful who use that southernism (amongst many others) for it to be the first thing that rolls off my tongue when I try to be more supportive/open ended.
It absolutely IS up for debate. Dude hasn't ever really been gendered except for that odd time in the 90's when people tried to make "dudette" a thing.
It absolutely IS up for debate. Dude hasn't ever really been gendered except for that odd time in the 90's when people tried to make "dudette" a thing.
Same as guys, dude and dudes became accepted by many because it was a male dominant word. That is part of the problem. Male being default and language revolving/evolving around that.
Dude means "a man". It was ALWAYS gendered, it was just another male focused word that became dominant as a catch-all due to male being default.
It is still gendered now at its core, even if it is used in a non-gendered way by many people.
Lol yes you can to both of those things. I probably wouldn't call a woman over 30 a my guy or my dude, but younger people don't give a fuck
Like I said, I understand it. The word's meaning has changed decades ago at this point though, to the point where it seems like the overwhelming majority are okay with it (compared to other words that have changed for the dramatically better or worse) and there doesn't seem to be inherent hate or exclusion intended. At this point I think a word with masculine roots (which is a lot of the English language obviously) that's grown in inclusivity is still better than most of the alternatives offered.
I know all the men in here being like "lol y r u offended guys is gender neutral" would be upset af if people referred to a group of men they were a part of as "ladies" or "gals" etc. Must be nice to be seen as the default and therefore not have to use your brain.
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Then let's stop pretending these words still mean the same thing. Language evolves.
Men have been calling groups of other men "ladies" since the dawn of time.
We're all coming at this from the experience of talking with and observing how female friends interact. I would literally never call my close group of female friends anything like "y'all" without getting a weird fucking look. They all use dude and guys.
Go ask a straight guy to tell you about the dudes he's been dating recently.
"Dude" is absolutely a gendered term. It is not a solution to this problem.
Exactly what Yaboosh said. This is never not said in a derogatory/jokey way meant to be mildly offensive.
No one is doing that. My friends don't find it offensive and they do it themselves. I wouldn't use the term here because it seems some do find it offensive, but Era and IRL are different.
Yeah I'll agree with that. I was more trying to address the idea that holding to the legacy gendering of a word seems silly.
I'm from the south so "Hey yall" is usually my go-to. Besides, the y's from each word let them flow nicely into each other.
By repeating that "it has changed" you show that you don't understand my point, though. I don't say this to start an argument, but plenty of non-binary, trans, gender fluid people do not think that word is inclusive, and that isn't something we should ignore.
In a time where we're learning more about gender identity, where language is evolving to fit that change, discussing the issues with male default words and working to figure out ways to be more inclusive is a good thing.
"The majority being okay with it" is never a justified reason to not push for positive change.
And while some might scoff and say "this is such a small issue", this is one of the little steps we need to take to actually put our money where our mouths are and work toward an actually inclusive future.
There are many better words than guys, the fact you just personally don't like them as much is not a hard thing to overcome to be more inclusive.
And, remember, the main reason for doing this even if the people you are speaking with are ok with it, is because by doing so you actively help lead with a positive change.
And the more people who use actually inclusive language, the more often they will make the people they matter to feel included.
It'a right there in the post you quoted, Arc. The fact language evolves a certain way is part of the root issue with the male default.
I've used "guys" plenty of times when it's just me and a group of girls. I don't think it's offensive but you can always just go with simple "sup". I don't use y'all but obviously plenty of other people do.
Currently I call my boys, "hoes" though. "Sup, hoe. Nah, hoe" like that.
I've gotten them in trouble however since the word sticks and they start using it. I've heard stories of how they've called their spouse "hoe" by accident lol.
Currently I call my boys, "hoes" though. "Sup, hoe. Nah, hoe" like that.
I've gotten them in trouble however since the word sticks and they start using it. I've heard stories of how they've called their spouse "hoe" by accident lol.
It was never not gendered. It is just that male = default in our society, so referring to a group of people of mixed genders by a male term has always been seen as acceptable, whereas using a female term would not be, even though it's literally the same thing. That is my point.
Fwiw, I am not offended if people use guys to refer to a group I am a part of, but I am also cis so I've never had to wonder if people were saying it maliciously. I also still mess up and use it sometimes, even though I'm trying to phase it out of my vocabulary. I'm just saying there's no reason to hold on to outdated terminology if it makes people uncomfortable.
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