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Using "boys" to speak to everyone really needs to stop, and this is why.
- Thread starter astro
- Start date
I guess I should be thankful that I don't experience this trend in my groups generally -- to the point that I'm left here scratching my head thinking who even does this, when the only cases of it I've seen are folks who are in solo-male groups (i.e., twitch stream stuff). But I guess that's because I wind up associating in communities with a fair number of trans women or nonbinary folks.
Sure if the language I use is causing others some harm I'll work to change that. I use "sup guys" or "hows it goin fellas" all the time in mp comms but it's not an earth-shattering change to switch to "folks" or "yall" instead, both of which I also use frequently. If people are speaking up about how uncomfortable they are when hearing specific salutations my first instinct isn't to whine about it or give some ridiculous answer like "wElL I gUeSs I cAn OnLy cAlL tHeM HuMan BeInGs nOw???" There are plenty of non-gendered options to use.
OP
OP
There are so many I shouldn't have to?
Y'all
Folk
Everyone
Mate(s)
These are the four that immediately spring to mind for me.
"guys" is gender neutral but "boys" isn't? Are you really trying to fault people for not making a distinction there? Maybe there are people out there who think it's the exact opposite. Why should I take your worldview and what words you're personally fine with as gospel and not theirs? Sorry, but nobody is "pushing" anything here.
"I guess if you don't agree with me you'll never understand it". Cool.
PT I just said that I swear I will throw a copy of Persona 4: Dancing All Night at you :p
But if you could use folks or people, why not use folks or people?
I don't use boys ever, at least I don't think I do but I do use guys and dude(s) a lot. Hell I call my wife dude all the time. I just use those terms as a general greeting of sorts, not meant to portray a certain gender. I guess I just never really thought about it as no one has ever showed offense to it, but I do empathize with you and understand why it would bother you.
OP
OP
I've explained this... I try my best not to use it because I know it upsets some.
But I assure you, no-one is going to post the thread and say "boys" is fine and "guys" is not, I would be willing to bet quite a lot on that.
How about "chaps"? I use it with the gang all the time. "Chapsies" if they're looking particularly cute that day.
It's weird, I don't mind "guys" at all and I call my female friends "dude" all the time (and some call me dude, too). But "boys" does slightly annoy me and feels more exclusive. I can't really explain why. I can't say it bothers me that much though.
Can it be 5, I want more Makoto
Sure, and you know how when you say upsetting things people tell you to not say them and it costs you nothing to not say them? This is one of those times.
Makes sense that this would bother you. Everyone should embrace "y'all", covers everyone and is gender neutral.
I don't agree personally and if terms like "boys" make people feel excluded they are not worth using.
Nothing wrong with that if you in squad playing online with them
Because guys is more natural to me. And I don't define the gender using guys.
IMO I think whoever is offended by that term looks way too deep into the meaning of terms. (I understand that there are people in this world who are hateful and do their best to place harm on the individuals this thread is about.)
Boys is an easy term and its been used in the gaming world as well as real world as a group term for years.
Whoever is saying "where we dropping boys" obviously isn't saying that directly towards said person to offend them.
It's a meme and a popular saying. Life is way too short to get upset about someone using a term they didn't know offended you.
Boys is an easy term and its been used in the gaming world as well as real world as a group term for years.
Whoever is saying "where we dropping boys" obviously isn't saying that directly towards said person to offend them.
It's a meme and a popular saying. Life is way too short to get upset about someone using a term they didn't know offended you.
OP
OP
Been answered numerous times ITT now... so I added a threadmark, Please see that.
I'm going to throw my two cents in, even though this thread is filled with outrageous claims that it's somehow common, or somehow it's a genericism.
i had NEVER EVER heard the term "let's X boys" used so much except in the last year or so. ever. i used to stream daily for several years and was very active and never heard it be very common at all until recently.
it seems like it's a meme that really came into common gamer use recently. I don't know where it came from or why. but "let's X boys" or "Get ready to X boys" or some variation certainly isn't something that has been used gender neutrally in my short 32 years on this planet. And it's annoying as fuck. Because while "guys" certainly is a problem, but is common phrase for "everyone" boys isn't. you can't make a good argument to me that it is unless you can somehow show common use to refer to mixed groups as long as guys has.
It is annoying OP. and i agree with you. I saw a thread recently that used that term and i wanted to comment on its proliferation myself, but you beat me to it.
i had NEVER EVER heard the term "let's X boys" used so much except in the last year or so. ever. i used to stream daily for several years and was very active and never heard it be very common at all until recently.
it seems like it's a meme that really came into common gamer use recently. I don't know where it came from or why. but "let's X boys" or "Get ready to X boys" or some variation certainly isn't something that has been used gender neutrally in my short 32 years on this planet. And it's annoying as fuck. Because while "guys" certainly is a problem, but is common phrase for "everyone" boys isn't. you can't make a good argument to me that it is unless you can somehow show common use to refer to mixed groups as long as guys has.
It is annoying OP. and i agree with you. I saw a thread recently that used that term and i wanted to comment on its proliferation myself, but you beat me to it.
I feel like you actually do have to because as seen by this thread it's not so obvious. Remember even if your cause is just you are still asking someone to change their ways so you have to also put in the additional effort of alternatives. If not, people will see it as a too much of an inconvenience to bother with. Sure they should try more but that's not reality. No one has to change anything but if you are going to promote change you need to also help guide people to better alternatives.
There's a lot of people who excitedly go "guys, guys, GUYS". Even girls do it to other girls.
It's popular for a reason, due to it being a quick way to address a group or call their attention in any casual conversation. No one is going "Folks! Folks!" or "Y'all! Y'all!"
Y'all is the perfect word and I will not rest until y'all heathens understand.
Boys is fine for me, sound neutral in the games in my opinion, i dont see the people in internet using boys disrespectfully.
It's not weird, dude and guys have become gender neutral over time in the common vernacular. Language evolves with use, plus those terms don't have a female equivalent so they became neutral. Boys is overtly gender specific
It's been a gender neutral term for ages. Obviously, if a person tells me they are not fine with it and asks me to not use it while they are around I'll stop doing it, but I won't automatically not use anywhere it in danger someone might get offended at something that was always accepted to use.
Errybody/y'all/folks/peeps/friends
Lots of ways to address people without using gendered language.
Lots of ways to address people without using gendered language.
got u
Don't make assumptions. Lots of women playing games online keep quiet because of the tendency for men to assume that the only other folks they're playing with are men.
Just because you only know three gender-neutral terms to refer to groups does not suddenly mean the attempt at inclusivity has failed. It just means you don't know how to use a thesaurus.
it's absolutely baffling to see that happen in an english speaking context, because english is a very neutral language, so it's not like romance languages (like french) where it's built into the gramar as a rule where "if there is at least one male in the group, then you refer to the group in masculine as a whole by defualt"
OP
OP
Because gaming has been a boys club for years.
Not everyone is a boy.
Refering to people who are not boys as boys, especially non-binary folk and gender fluid people, helps deny their existence and makes them feel even more excluded. Remember, many of us have grown up with people hostile toward us simple for existing. This adds to that.
I'm all down for this. Been seeing a lot of "We doin' it boys!" and the ilk lately. "Well, why should I have to stop!?" Because it's nice? Because it makes people who don't explicitly ID as male feel more welcome? It kicks in to this ugly misogynistic trend going into gaming anymore, even if it's unintentional, and just TRYING is a good start, instead of fussing, "But whyyyy?" or arguing "I'll stop saying boys, but I'm NOT going to stop saying 'guys'!!" Yes, it'll be weird at first, gasp. Relearning vocal behaviors is never easy to start, but be considerate of your audience.
Well aren't you a real piece of work. Fucking gross.
Well aren't you a real piece of work. Fucking gross.
I've never heard anyone seriously say stuff like "where we dropping boys", seems like more of a meme about mainstream BR players than an actual phrase people use, most people would just say guys, I still say guys even when talking to a group that is just women.
Threads like this make me feel so out of touch because I'll never be able to empathize with the sentiment.
Threads like this make me feel so out of touch because I'll never be able to empathize with the sentiment.
Colloquial language. Guys is almost exclusively used as gender neutral in the context provided.
Boys has a long history of being a word used to demean someone, if nothing else. But it's also still used as a descriptor for males whereas "guys" isn't really used as often to describe a gaggle of male fleshies.
It's also incredibly easy to not do something as simple as using a certain pronoun if someone asks you to. Like, damn.
I honestly can't think of any time I've heard "boys" used to mean "everyone". "Guys" or "fellows" sure, but not "boys". Is this something in multiplayer game chat? (I don't play games with multiplayer chat enabled).