• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
Exactly. Someone above in this thread mentioned education and that's exactly what's going to be needed.

I dont Really think this is that big of an issue. MS just has never been into user replaceable drives. You can have a page with compatible drives. If someone wants to replace the drive they can have a resource. It's doable if they really want to go down that route. Like others have stated the technology they're using already exists.
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,934
I want as many games as possible instantly accessible. That's the digital advantage.

If I'm gonna swap cards, I might as well go back in time and swap discs instead.
And to have those games instantly accessible (and work as developers intended) the drive needs to meet a minimum spec. That's why the solution is proprietary. You can't just buy the cheapest thing you can find on Newegg and expect it to work. Then we'd be back at square one with developers having to build their games with the lowest of the lowest common denominator in mind, and would totally eliminate the entire point of having a fast SDD in the box in the first place.
 

wartime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,070
Washington DC
I'm assuming these are going to be pretty pricey. By the time most people are bothered by having just 1tb of space, a year or two into the generation, I'm sure prices will be more palatable. You don't need to get this day 1.
 

Detective Pidgey

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 4, 2019
6,255
But wait..

What if I buy a external SSD and plug in via USB? Surely I'll still benefit from the shorter loading times?
 

Mrflood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
734
Think we are jumping the gun here. The process of moving from external HDD to internal SSD can be optimized to allow playing within a few minutes while the process completes. I think for most owners, that would be sufficent vs spending $$ to expand the SSD storage.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,387
This is interesting, shows that the SSD speed is really essential for the system
Any PC builder will tell you that the cheapest and most noticeable jump in performance is switching from HDD to SSD. Next gen NEEDS to switch to SSD because it's been pretty ubiquitous in the PC space for years now.
 

secretanchitman

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,788
Chicago, IL
I'm 50/50 on this. Paying for proprietary storage drives me nuts because the prices will be high (1TB NVME SSD with high read/write speeds will be expensive) but I get it so Microsoft won't compromise on speed.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
And to have those games instantly accessible (and work as developers intended) the drive needs to meet a minimum spec. That's why the solution is proprietary. You can't just buy the cheapest thing you can find on Newegg and expect it to work. Then we'd be back at square one with developers having to build their games with the lowest of the lowest common denominator in mind, and would totally eliminate the entire point of having a fast SDD in the box in the first place.

Could always have the Xbox's firmware do a read/write test to verify the drive is up to snuff.

Can't make bank on proprietary hardware that way though.

Also developers have been having to take different speeds into account for decades on PC, PS4, PS3, and Switch. Not to mention external drives. Do you seriously think most devs will change how their games are made for just one platform? Even Microsoft won't be able to thanks to all of their games being multiplatform so any speed improvement you get is gonna be from the SSD, not the fact you have consistent drive speed.
 

Azzawon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
117
Scunthorpe, UK
It would be great if they added a feature to the Series X where you can store the majority of your games on an external HDD (or SSD for that matter) and be able to load one of those games onto the internal storage, thus offloading something you're not currently playing (if there's not enough room on internal). The console could use that new quick play feature they've shown off while the game is being transferred to internal storage.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,806
Well that's kind of disappointing. I thought Microsoft going with standard PCIe connectivity for the SSD meant we were going to be able to replace the stock drive with a standard M2 NVMe. Guess not.

And unfortunately Sony will probably do the same thing since their SSD solution is completely proprietary.
 

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,120
"You will be able to store Xbox Series X games on the drives, but you won't be able to run them without transferring the game to the internal NVMe hard drive or the custom slot drives."

Perfect:

6TB cold storage on USB 3 and moving games back and forth between HDD and nvme isn't going to take too long.
I don't see an issue with it and I don't really see why I would ever need an expansion.
I don't really need to be actively playing 5+ big games at the same time.
 

crazillo

Member
Apr 5, 2018
8,186
It's the best solution they could have come up with. If you want some next-gen tech, outdated tech cannot be supported anymore.
 

Deleted member 8468

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,109
The fact that you can still use a mechanical HD for backups is pretty great.

I don't expect these to be cheap however. $100/500GB or something.
 

Andri

Member
Mar 20, 2018
6,017
Switzerland
Currently a 1TB Samsung 970 PRO(which only has 3.5 GB/s read and 2.7 GB/s write, way less than the 4.8 GB/s they cite) is over 300$, even with the bulk and resale discounts they get such expansion storage wont be cheap, especially since there will be an extra tax due to there being no other option aviable.


Since when did the launch Vita have a sizeable internal storage ?
Sizeable is relative, and even 1TB is not all that much with current gen games, not to think of next gen games that will probably well over 100 GB a pop.
Sony will almost definitely take the same approach. Next gen only games will be made with SSDs in mind
There is a big difference between SSDs, and Proprietary SSDs.
Unless Sony and MS use the same standart, its gonna end up being an expensive format of storage, simply due to the comparably low volume made.
Consoles sell 10s of millions, but SSDs sell much much more.
In Q2 2019, SSD shipments were higher than Lifetime Xbox 1 shipments.

Even if PS5/XBSX share the same module, and sell 100m each, that would still only be around a year of shipments of regular SSDs.
To make storage affordable you need to have huge numbers, and these simply wont be had at the numbers consoles sell
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,573
Not super surprising, but at least I can use my current external hard drive for storage and move around as needed.

Not ideal, but if it means the base hardware doesn't have performance compromises, I'll just have to avoid downloading junk I don't actually play.

Still sucks because I want to have as much on the internal drive as possible for loading times. I assume it will speed up legacy game loading.
 

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Well, at the reasoning behind it makes sense unlike previous generations where it was a garbage 5400rpm drive and you either didn't have access to the HDD or were just paying for a plastic shell and a proprietary connector.
 

Rabalder.

Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,481
It's completely necessary if you want to keep the SSD standard. Not sure what else people were expecting. Sony had a choice with the Vita and chose wrong. Neither MS nor Sony have a choice this time.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
I would like to have the complete spec sheet of that thing (connector, cells), for now we only have the size. And people should understand that you can upload/offload on the internal SSD or on that memory card what do you want to play regularly and keep the rest on an online (USB wired) platter or ssd external drive. Transferts won't be that long.
 

xem

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,043
You will be able to store Xbox Series X games on the drives, but you won't be able to run them without transferring the game to the internal NVMe hard drive or the custom slot drives

This is exactly as i assumed it would work and is perfectly acceptable to me. cant wait!
 

R0987

Avenger
Jan 20, 2018
2,837
MS and Sony should also allow third parties to build these expansion cards to keep the cost somewhat down.
 

Chucker

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,332
Maryland
This was super expected. People want bleeding edge until they're reminded of what bleeding edge costs.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Unlike Vita at least there's a genuine reason for this, and it sounds like it's not completely necessary if you only play a few games at any one time and are happy switching back and forth to USB storage.
 

Sim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,871
I thought DF said that you could use external SSD's to run Series X games. Maybe I misread that.

The Series X is probably using USB 3.2 Gen 2, which only goes up to 10 Gbps. Their internal storage goes over 20 Gbps, which is likely the very minimum they want for running games. Any external storage solution would be far too slow.

edit: I should add that you can run back compat games off of external storage.
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
They could've, y'know, allowed off-the-shelf M.2 NVME SSDs to be inserted into a proprietary enclosure.
 

RPG_Fanatic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,646
So the Vita memory strategy is coming to consoles now. The price to storage ratio will be the big factor on how this will play out.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Sizeable is relative, and even 1TB is not all that much with current gen games, not to think of next gen games that will probably well over 100 GB a pop.

Paired with a standard HDD, most people won't need the proprietary storage. You'll be able to swap SSD and HDD games in and out without any internet access.

1TB is enough to permanently keep your top 6 or so games, then rotate in a few from the HDD as needed.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,871
Well that's kind of disappointing. I thought Microsoft going with standard PCIe connectivity for the SSD meant we were going to be able to replace the stock drive with a standard M2 NVMe. Guess not.

And unfortunately Sony will probably do the same thing since their SSD solution is completely proprietary.

 

G_Zero

alt account
Banned
Mar 19, 2019
457
Biggest reason for this is the technology is custom so out of the box drives won't work with it.
Why wouldn't they though? The SSDs are only 2.5 GB/s, there are plenty of ordinary NVMe drives which are faster. There is no reason I can see that they couldn't have just included a user-accesible m.2 NVMe-slot.
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
No, they couldn't. You can't guarantee to developers a certain level of performance when people can buy aftermarket storage of questionable performance. NVMe is just an interface.
They could always just require PCIe 4.0 SSDs

EDIT: ok now I'm seeing the pictures. Those things are way smaller.
 

Detective Pidgey

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 4, 2019
6,255
Damn, so no XSX games then. Why is that? What makes it so you can't run XSX games from your current external hdd or a newly bought external SSD?