Ok I'm not crazy, those threads got pretty big so I didn't read a lot of post.....but people here are acting like this was a big deal(on our site).
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USGamer: "The Epic Games Store is Spyware:" How a Toxic Accusation Was Started by Anti-Chinese Sentiment (Read Staff Post(s))
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This is such sweeping nonsense. Huawei has a known history with espionage on the back of their tech at the behest of their largest benefactor, the Chinese government. Conflating criticism of a tech company and a authoritarian government with Chinese citizens is a great way to muddy the water to shut down talking about real data security concerns. It's the same tactics that is used to fight criticisms against the Israeli government in certain political circles.
Also I don't know what "jingoism" has to do with any of that.
If people hate something they will believe anything if it gives them more ammo to hate.
the article has screen caps of two people on twitter saying the epic games store is giving information to the chinese government
wow what a wide spread issue
definitely not conflating other issues people have with their privacy and the client into this one and misrepresenting all of them
wow what a wide spread issue
definitely not conflating other issues people have with their privacy and the client into this one and misrepresenting all of them
Putting millions of innocent people in borderline concentrations camps makes them kinda sucky? Disgusting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps
This is something I despise about modern media, two dickheads on Twitter equals MAJOR OUTRAGE. It's poisoning the discourse on just about everything; like, who the fuck cares what some guy on Twitter said?
User Warned: Vilifying media outlet.
Disappointing article, but totally expected from media given their history regarding Epic Store. It's especially bad and apparent in Gamer Network owned websites.
This should be mandatory reading before posting in an Epic Store related thread tbh:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18YudW7kBCBTSr3kJp_4EEiEmT5I7c2B5/view
Maybe even this:
https://twitter.com/RobotBrush/status/1112204567394086913
Not to mention that Epic Store is (or was, Idk if it's changed) a spyware, it just isn't a spyware for the Chinese government.
Sure, let's ignore all the valid reasons people like Steam/dislike Epic have mentioned countless times and pretend everyone who dislikes Epic is a Steam fanboy.
This should be mandatory reading before posting in an Epic Store related thread tbh:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18YudW7kBCBTSr3kJp_4EEiEmT5I7c2B5/view
Maybe even this:
https://twitter.com/RobotBrush/status/1112204567394086913
Not to mention that Epic Store is (or was, Idk if it's changed) a spyware, it just isn't a spyware for the Chinese government.
You know who are embarassing? People outside PC community who know literally nothing about the situation regarding Epic & Steam and lecture PC community on what's good for them. Why? Because they've heard that Steam is bAd and eViL.
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Cut the bullshit. Valve may be one of the most bashed on companies on the internet nowadays due to customer service, handling of the paid mods fiasco, handling of their key franchises like Half-Life and Team Fortress, the general toxicity and lack of moderation on many sections of their community sections...etc I could go on and on.
The pre-2011 era of "Valve can do no wrong!" attitude, stupid Valve worship and fanboyism is long gone in many communities and yes including ERA so I don't know why it keeps getting peddled. People gravitate towards Steam simply because of the value of service Valve provides compared to the competition. And, yes, Valve does show willingness to listen to feedback to improve the user experience or backtrack on bad ideas called out by the community.
Heck, I don't even like Valve as a game developer anymore yet still can see the value they provide to the PC market.
I have some bad news about our government https://www.harpersbazaar.com/cultu...ation-abortion-period-tracking-migrant-women/
No, it was not. Not all people of PC community are conspiracy theorists or generalize as you shamefully do with your post.
Consumers have legit concerns about EGS and how they are operating yet there is not one single article on USGamer about it. What we have here is a News Editor picking up some idiotic posts on Reddit to build his case.
Compare this piece of news with J.Schreier's article about Bioware and you will understand how vast is the gap between good journalism and hot take articles.
Edit: Now that i am thinking the USG piece could be something that people like Yong Yea would have easily write, parroting bad posts and trying to make a case around those.
The non-PC community's reaction to the Epic Store has been completely embarrassing.
So embarrassing that it is offputting to me that I can't play games on my preferred OS anymore. Like who am I to think that publishers making deals for exclusivity that locks me out of their products just 'cause is annoying for me. How entitled of me to say I won't support those publishers in the future.
Fanboyism is not something that is exclusive to console gamers.
Most embarrassing "argument" against egs, anyone who cites Chinese spying only hurts their cause as it makes them sound like an idiot conspiracy theorist
if only pc gaming had died off just like how most of the games press and epic games had said it would.
I think to some extent it is working. I mean I don't have to go out of my way to not support the EGS because Tim Sweeney already said in an interview that he doesn't want me and people like me (read, Linux users) as customers.
But at the same time I think they make enough money with the store and see enough usage to keep doing it.
There is legitimate criticism to be had of the PRC government, and government contractors (as Tencent has been from time-to-time; much like Google has taken US military contracts).
However, there is a bright line between such criticism and conspiracy, or even out-and-out Sinophobia. Even here on Era, I have on multiple occasions seen posts that cross that line.
Given the general nature of this site and its membership, I'd like to believe that most of those guilty of such posts are genuinely well-intentioned and impassioned about the political angle, and do not realize they have crossed the line into attacking or targeting a whole group of people. Thus, I would urge anyone who engages in such discussions to take a step back and look your words over before you hit post, for any meaning you may have not intended, but is nevertheless by the language you've used made there. ResetEra is for everyone, and we can have civil and critical discussions without crossing the line into stereotyping a whole group of fellow members, and making them feel unwelcome and uncomfortable.
Thanks.
However, there is a bright line between such criticism and conspiracy, or even out-and-out Sinophobia. Even here on Era, I have on multiple occasions seen posts that cross that line.
Given the general nature of this site and its membership, I'd like to believe that most of those guilty of such posts are genuinely well-intentioned and impassioned about the political angle, and do not realize they have crossed the line into attacking or targeting a whole group of people. Thus, I would urge anyone who engages in such discussions to take a step back and look your words over before you hit post, for any meaning you may have not intended, but is nevertheless by the language you've used made there. ResetEra is for everyone, and we can have civil and critical discussions without crossing the line into stereotyping a whole group of fellow members, and making them feel unwelcome and uncomfortable.
Thanks.
Yep. There are legitimate complaints to be made about EGS, but they're very rarely or only briefly made because they're not as scandalous as some of the weird conspiracy theories people have convinced themselves of
It has been, and there's aspects of it that mirror right wing sentiments in our current political situation. Claiming that the media is paid off and burying stories just because they're publishing editorials and takes that you don't agree with is eerily close to "Fake News". Just as you may use random Steam feature X, some people may not use it at all so its absence in EGS at this time doesn't bother them, and they view it as just another icon to click on the desktop.
You know who are embarrassing? Certain PC gamers trying to dismiss others as "outside the PC community" because they have a different opinion. I've been playing PC games for over twenty years, I use Steam, Origin, uPlay, Battle.net, GOG, and now EGS and I don't care where the games are. I understand that things like Big Picture, Controller API, regional pricing, and platform availability are factors to others, but they're not to me. My opinion is no less valid than yours or anyone else's. Similarly, I don't mind "console gamers" or less experienced PC gamers commenting on the situation either. At the end of the day, it's a hobby that we're arguing about on a message board.
There's a reason why other stores haven't gotten the same reaction tho. Hint upsetting users of other platforms with their centralized library.
User Banned (Permanent): Hostility towards staff and misrepresenting official communications; consistent history of trolling and inflammatory statements.
LOL, funny. This thread should of been closed 2 pages in, not only because this "article" is awful, but with the amount of bad faith arguing thats been going on, and equating criticism of the Chinese government and it's corporation to xenophobia. But let's keep it open to catch some "conspiracy theory" bans, of all things. Pathetic.
The conspiracy stuff is dumb as shit but don't try and pretend that has been the center of the conversation.
No it hasn't. Don't dare try and use this is an excuse to paint PC gamers upset with their shitty tactics, as in the wrong.
That's the problem with trying to discuss this subject on this board in general.
People that don't even game on PC or have experience using Steam in the past 5 years suddenly have something to say about how Valve "has a monopoly" or "needs some competition", and anybody that thinks otherwise is just a whiny Steam fanboy, hand waving it as "launcherwarz" because as long as a game is playable without having to buy a new game system, then it must be okay. That media personalities and outlets are guilty of doing the same thing only exacerbates the issue.
Legitimate concerns with pricing, domestically via the absence of third party presence, and regional pricing via currency exchange rates and Epic passing on the cost of certain payment methods onto the consumer, get downplayed in the name of having another Steam competitor. Legitimate issues with the lack of features from Epic, particularly when those moneyhats could have been used to implement even standard features by now, get glossed over.
And now, very legitimate concerns about Epic spying on your Steam files, something Sweeney himself admitted their launcher was doing, are getting downplayed by xenophobia accusations because yet another media outlet chose to misrepresent an issue due to some fringe part of the gaming community on reddit and other sites.
Dismissing these issues has been one large exercise in bad faith arguments by people on one side of the issue, and considering none of it has been actioned as such, I'm inclined to believe the staff post in literally every Epic thread (you know, the one that says don't enter a thread to argue in bad faith, among other things) doesn't apply to people on one side of this, or potentially at all.
It's not worth your time to continuously defend an otherwise reasonable stance against Epic's practices. The gaming majority in media and in general, many of which game only on consoles anyway, have made up their minds on Epic already. The discussion is basically over because nobody is listening anymore, Epic will continue to do what they do because there aren't enough people or journalists pushing back, and gaming on PC will be worse for it as a result.
This is the new narrative that is being pushed. "The only criticism is motivated on racism".
Yeah, it's better when a community say nothing and just eat whatever crap they're being thrown. Online paywall ? Please more of it. Raising the prices ? It's just a cup of coffee each month. Closing servers ? They're not a charity. I'm glad that for once, some people just don't shut up and actually express disapproval toward multi billions dollars companies.
Atleast on Era, never read any opinion post about Epic being "spyware for the chinese government". People saying stuff like that need to show recepts ffs.
What is pretty much confirmed is that Epic spy your Steam stuff, probably for themselves.
Usgamer atempt to make Epic Store a victim using racism and xenophobia is really sad and the bias is blatant.
Ofc some people on the internet would say something linking Epic spyware stuff with chinese government, but now the narrative is that most people criticizing Epic did that and this is the motive people are angry.
Like, yeah...
What is pretty much confirmed is that Epic spy your Steam stuff, probably for themselves.
Usgamer atempt to make Epic Store a victim using racism and xenophobia is really sad and the bias is blatant.
Ofc some people on the internet would say something linking Epic spyware stuff with chinese government, but now the narrative is that most people criticizing Epic did that and this is the motive people are angry.
Like, yeah...
There were so few people saying that, that it makes me think this is more of a tactic to group everyone calling it spyware into a racist group in order to make it easier to dismiss the legit complains.
Why? Do you not trust Oculus who is owned by Facebook which has been proved that it sold our personal data to third parties?
Obviously there's plenty of Fortnite microtransaction money around to keep starving everyone else from games.
The proof is in the sales of those games, and they've been awfully quiet.
I can only speak for myself but people like you are no problem. You aknowledge that some people have legitimate problems with the EGS (platform availability and data security concerns for me) and use actual arguments why you have no problem using the EGS. That's fair and square and I'm in no position to say you are not allowed to that or whatever BS.
Regarding those "fake news" outcries the problem lies probably with some really badly informed and researched articles (one article said Metro: Exodus was $10 cheaper for everyone, which is wrong, but when pointed out that correction was just framed as coming from alt-right incels). It is annoying when journalists can't be bothered to do basic fact-checks.
And to be clear, I don't believe PCGamer or whatever are paid to post articles that glorify the EGS, I just wish they were more open to the problems people have with the store instead of opting to just belittle everyone that has these problems.
To be honest, I feel like that Metro Exodus article situation is more a case of "inexperienced or not very good games journalist" than a case of trying to intentionally mislead or anger people. Many people based in the US don't think twice about pricing/availability for countries outside the US, and it can be difficult to break that perspective. A journalist (and more importantly their editor) should be aware of that, however.
Lol I cannot believe people are falling for the "distrust of a billion dollar corporation is actually racism"
If this was in the US, y'all would laugh it off as the worst kind of GOP nonsense. People are skeptical of all the main corporate actors involved for very good reasons. This milquetoast pro-corporate lib shit is gonna get us killed I swear lol
Good to see the mods on top of it as usual though, literally banning a guy for saying a Chinese company may not have the best intentions. And that their relationship with the government might be why. What if he had said it about Google?! He'd be right then too, but wouldn't have been banned!
If this was in the US, y'all would laugh it off as the worst kind of GOP nonsense. People are skeptical of all the main corporate actors involved for very good reasons. This milquetoast pro-corporate lib shit is gonna get us killed I swear lol
Good to see the mods on top of it as usual though, literally banning a guy for saying a Chinese company may not have the best intentions. And that their relationship with the government might be why. What if he had said it about Google?! He'd be right then too, but wouldn't have been banned!
And that is the problem. Instead of just doing an update to the article (no problem at all) anyone pointing that error out was immediately an alt-right incel. The press release by Epic was garbage at that point (they actually said it was $10 for everyone) but it was easy to fact-check. Yeah it wasn't trying to mislead people but as a journalist and publication you should be professional enough to correct wrong information when it is pointed out to you.
Thissss, I love the artist. But fuck tell business side of these companies.
Didn't you say you were gonna quit the site because the mods let people be anti-Semitic.
The vast majority of complaints I've seen come from people who are concerned with the lacking feature set or tracking of EGS; any calls to "fake news" seem to be very much secondary. Congrats, you personally don't care about some features. Heck, I don't either. The only "counter argument" is always "Well *I* don't care about those things therefore other people can't and shouldn't". Stop being so self centered and realize it's not about you or any one person and what they deem to be "worthwhile", it's about the sum of the audience and the fact that EGS adds absolutely nothing positive and a whole lot of negatives.
What is it with people and aggressively trying to misrepresent very tangible, very obviously anti-consumer concerns?
Yes, I agree. I just find it kinda frustrating to be accused of xenofobia when one of the biggest issues with EGS at the moment is that it's not avaiable in China and every exclusive deal is a middle finger to chinese players.
Yeah, this is mostly where I'm at.
Case in point.
I've had some productive conversations with Era admins on this topic via private channels (which is their preferred means for such discussions). I've also been thinking about writing up a whole thread this weekend to try and educate people on the difference between criticism of the Israeli government and anti-Semitism, which is a line I see crossed even more frequently here than Sinophobia.
I feel comfortable saying that the general discussion of the EGS has skewed way more to the extremely hyperbolic side of things. I'm not saying that *this* conspiracy is people's only complaint about it, but a lot of the complaints have truly been off the wall
I have complaints about the Epic store and how they've gone about launching it, but almost every PC announcement thread has been derailed by Epic fearmongering the last few months and it's tired
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