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USA Powerlifting bans all trans women from competing as women (Read OP)

TheAnointed

Member
Dec 7, 2018
50
Everything with you people is trolling. It's so infuriating. We're simply having a discussion and making clarifications. Posters like uzipukki has been respectful and engaging and I appreciate that.

I guess I'll leave the thread before I get banned due to people assigning bad motives .
 
uzipukki

uzipukki

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
Peralta99 said:
Probably talking about Rachel McKinnon. But she's likely the exception. There are freak athletes who come along every now and again and just excel from the jump. Certainly seems silly to use her as representative of all trans athletes
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Ah, okay. Gonna read up on her now. But yeah, from my very limited knowledge of her seems like she's an outlier rather than the rule when regarding transgender athletics.
Francesco said:
Weight/height thing sounds like a good compromise. I'm not a doctor though.
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It doesn't though.
 

Sampson

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
1,196
TaterTots said:
So, you're making it up? Or do you wanna prove me wrong?
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One example is Laurel Hubbard who set records in women's weight lifting. Before her transition, she spent most of her life competing in men's weight lifting, where she also set records. The study linked in the OP is about running, not weight lifting. The concept of "muscle memory" is widely established -- when you put on muscle earlier in life, it becomes easier to regrow it later due to fundamental changes in the structure of your muscle cells. There are studies that suggest that using steroids for even a short period of time can have a long-term positive effects on strength performance even years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory_(strength_training)#cite_note-2
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080925072430.htm
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-24730151
 
LastCaress

LastCaress

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,681
TheAnointed said:
I disgree. I think by segregating by height/weight/mass, all genders ( cis men, cis women, trans and non-binary) will fairly compete and more so it's inclusive.
I also think by saying men are better than women in sports, you're in a way supporting transphobic people because that's the same logic they use.
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You can't even logistically separate people my height/mass in most sports. How would you even do such a thing for most sports? Have 10 basketball leagues separated by height/weight?
 
uzipukki

uzipukki

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
caliph95 said:
Going have to keep waiting
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Seems like it.
Sampson said:
One example is Laurel Hubbard who set records in women's weight lifting. Before her transition, she spent most of her life competing in men's weight lifting, where she also set records. The study linked in the OP is about running, not weight lifting. The concept of "muscle memory" is widely established -- when you put on muscle earlier in life, it becomes easier to regrow it later due to fundamental changes in the structure of your muscle cells. There are studies that suggest that using steroids for even a short period of time can have a long-term positive effects on strength performance even years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory_(strength_training)#cite_note-2
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080925072430.htm
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-24730151
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I don't know much about weightlifting, but from what I could gather from googling the world record for +90kg women's weightlifting is 348kg combined. So Laurels 280kg is quite far behind that. But I might be wrong since I have no idea how these things go.
 

Deleted member 52988

Account closed at user request
Banned
Feb 2, 2019
74
LastCaress said:
You can't even logistically separate people my height/mass in most sports. How would you even do such a thing for most sports? Have 10 basketball leagues separated by height/weight?
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Yep. And you'd have to let people play "up" (can you imagine telling Russell Westbrook he has to play in the 6'3" division?) Meaning that the top league will basically be today's NBA as currently constructed, and the smaller/lighter divisions will be dominated by male d-leaguers and internationals whilst the best female players on the planet play..... where exactly?
 
CaviarMeths

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
TheAnointed said:
Everything with you people is trolling. It's so infuriating. We're simply having a discussion and making clarifications. Posters like uzipukki has been respectful and engaging and I appreciate that.

I guess I'll leave the thread before I get banned due to people assigning bad motives .
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It's very difficult to come to any conclusion other than trolling when you adamantly refuse to read any information explaining that there are significant differences between men and women of the same height and weight.
 
Subpar Scrub

Subpar Scrub

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,576
TheAnointed said:
Everything with you people is trolling. It's so infuriating. We're simply having a discussion and making clarifications. Posters like uzipukki has been respectful and engaging and I appreciate that.

I guess I'll leave the thread before I get banned due to people assigning bad motives .
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You're not clarifying anything, you're just saying "nah, seperating competition by height and weight makes it competitive regardless of being a man or woman" over and over, which is factually incorrect and directly detrimental to women's sports leagues.

Cas said:
I'm going to invent a cold tolerance competition. Apparently, women can retain heat better than men :)

Rose knew what was up on Titanic, she murdered poor Jack.
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Maybe a professional "find (this specific object) in a room" league. Women would be setting 20 second records while dudes would be lucky to clear 45 minutes.
 
phonicjoy

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
uncelestial said:
Weight and height seem like better tiers of competition than gender. If one 5'9 person weighing 170 lbs can lift more than another person weight 5'9 person weighing 170 lbs, that seems like a fair comparison. Banning trans women to uphold the gender division is just compounding sexism with transphobia.
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Well, that would be a disadvantage for women/people in transistion, as those have a higher natural bodyfat percentage. And therefore a lower lean bodymass percentage.
 
NoRéN

NoRéN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,623
TheAnointed said:
Everything with you people is trolling. It's so infuriating. We're simply having a discussion and making clarifications. Posters like uzipukki has been respectful and engaging and I appreciate that.

I guess I'll leave the thread before I get banned due to people assigning bad motives .
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Too slow.
 
Gonzalez

Gonzalez

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,679
User Banned (Permanent): inappropriate commentary, antagonising other members, history of severe infractions
I love how this forum is repeating the same fuck ups as NeoGaf did. I can't wait till BronsonLee is caught grabbing the ass of a woman at a bar who is hustling for drinks.

You perma ban for that.
 
Sephzilla

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Gonzalez said:
I love how this forum is repeating the same fuck ups as NeoGaf did. I can't wait till BronsonLee is caught grabbing the ass of a woman at a bar who is hustling for drinks.

You perma ban for that.
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Nephtis

Nephtis

Banned
Dec 27, 2017
679
Account suicide perhaps? It was just so weird lol

Maybe following the footsteps of Neeson
 
Juaner

Juaner

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
7
User Banned (Permanent): Transphobia, Account in junior phase.
I completely agree with the new rule. I'll never forget that trans guy that kicked my ass in a lifting contest 10 years ago. I mean, is not fair. I suck so badly at lifting weight and I've always though that's unfair to allow women with penis to kick my ass cause i had enough with the men with penis.
 
Platy

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,636
Brazil
Juaner said:
I completely agree with the new rule. I'll never forget that trans guy that kicked my ass in a lifting contest 10 years ago. I mean, is not fair. I suck so badly at lifting weight and I've always though that's unfair to allow women with penis to kick my ass cause i had enough with the men with penis.
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So .... both trans men and trans women kick your ass ?
I am really not understanding your post O.o
 
ishan

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
This is an interesting article.

I think there should be more follow up studies. If more studies show the same results then women's sports should be opened up to transgender women.

Having said that there are some points to address

- small sample size

- The question of differences at an elite level and a high performance level

- type of activity (eg different sports amplify different traits such as strength power speed flexibility) gaps difference based on sports and the study seems to focus on "endurance/speed" related events. Record marathon time differences are 2:01 to 2:17 (13%) weightlifting in classes circa 65-70kgs is 150 vs 184 (21%) while allowing for women to be slightly heavier.

This can also look into the other transition female to male. Women are better at gymnastics so a transmale's differences there could be also looked into. This hasnt been an issue so far because mostly its been in fields where men have advantages.

This can be address with addressing the size and variety in the sample. In fact while only one data point a very pertinent person to sample would be catelyn jenner simply given the elite performance in the olympics while also being in a sport that addresses various physical traits. (In some sense given the elite performance level you can essentially get ten samples from her assuming she wasnt too far off in any one activities from the norm during the olympics.)

Overall a direction which certainly needs to be looked at in more detail but question still remain which further research can address. If certain fields show no advantage it should be made open. If certain fields show an advantage remains that will be an issue. More complex would be sports which require a combination of traits where some show advantages some show disadvantages etc.

EDIT: There are other questions such as what follow up (contradictory or reconfirming) studies there are. Robustness of study etc But those are normal parts of the scientific consensus building so I think those things are impertinent to this post at this time.

Sample size remains the biggest barrier I would assume given were trying to make statistical inferences etc.

EDIT 2: Of course the question of how it impacts during a developmental/training stage is another question to be addressed.
 
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OP
OP

Deleted member 32679

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,787
Juaner said:
I completely agree with the new rule. I'll never forget that trans guy that kicked my ass in a lifting contest 10 years ago. I mean, is not fair. I suck so badly at lifting weight and I've always though that's unfair to allow women with penis to kick my ass cause i had enough with the men with penis.
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Jesus. You guys are absurd.
 
MrToughPants

MrToughPants

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,163
Not sure if this is a worthy update but powerlifters at a state USAPL meet timed out their lifts to protest the ruling.

https://www.muscleandfitness.com/at...s-protest-usapl-minnesota-state-championships

Last week, USA Powerlifting (USAPL) announced that transgender women would not be allowed to compete against biological females. The decision gained mainstream attention when JayCee Cooper, a trans female powerlifter, brought notice to the fact that the USAPL rejected her application to compete in the women's division in a Minnesota-based meet. Then, Minnesota State Rep, Ilhan Omar (D), who wrote a letter to the USAPL, asked them to adopt the rules of the International Olympic Committee, who allow trans women to compete against biological females.

It seems as though more and more lifters are siding with Cooper and Ilhan. This past weekend at the USAPL Minnesota State Championships (Feb. 16-17), competitors protested the USAPL's trans policy by timing out all nine of their attempts (three each for the squat, deadlift, and bench press). Instead of participating or just not showing up, some lifters approached the platform and stood there as the clock counted down the minute. Many of the protestors, who donned green singlets, were members of Team Green—a well-established powerlifting team based out of The Movement Minneapolis Gym.
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