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.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,660
The overall state of democracy in the U.S. declined last year, according to an annual ranking published Wednesday by The Economist's Intelligence Unit, which cited the continued erosion of trust in the country's institutions.

The U.S. retained its rank as the 25th most democratic nation, out of 167 countries analyzed, but remains in the "flawed democracy" category after being demoted from the "full democracy" group in 2016, the report said.

Norway was the highest ranked democracy, according to The Economist.

The report measures five main categories — electoral process and pluralism; civil liberties; the functioning of government; political participation; and political culture — and assigns scores to each one.

The overall U.S. score of 7.92 was down from 7.96 the previous year. Norway's score was 9.81 in 2020.

"The US's overall performance is held back by a number of weaknesses, including extremely low levels of trust in institutions and political parties; deep dysfunction in the functioning of government; increasing threats to freedom of expression; and a degree of societal polarisation that makes consensus on any issue almost impossible to achieve," the report said.

The report cited the efforts by former President Trump and his allies to challenge the 2020 election results in several states with unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud.

Those efforts, according to the report, follow increasing trends in other countries "to challenge the result of elections and referendums, and to seek to discredit the outcome by alleging external interference and giving credence to conspiracy theories."

The U.S. improved its score for political participation, however, as the coronavirus pandemic, movements for racial justice and other key events fueled a high level of participation in the 2020 elections.

Beyond the U.S. findings, the report recorded the lowest average global democracy score since the index was first published in 2006. The Economist attributed the decline largely to "government-imposed restrictions on individual freedoms and civil liberties that occurred across the globe in response to the coronavirus pandemic."

"Across the world in 2020, citizens experienced the biggest rollback of individual freedoms ever undertaken by governments during peacetime," the report states. "Most people concluded, on the basis of the evidence about a new, deadly disease, that preventing a catastrophic loss of life justified a temporary loss of freedom."

The Top 10:

1. Norway 9.81
2. Iceland 9.37
3. Sweden 9.26
4. New Zealand 9.25
5. Canada 9.24
6. Finland 9.20
7. Denmark 9.15
8. Ireland 9.05
T9. Australia 8.96
T9. Netherlands 8.96
10. Taiwan

thehill.com

US score falls in Economist’s annual Democracy Index

The overall state of democracy in the U.S. declined last year, according to an annual ranking published Wednesday by The Economist’s Intelligence Unit, which cited the continued ero…
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
Generally not surprising, but

"Increasing threats to freedom of expression?"

What's that about?

EDIT: Okay, looked through the document - they were saying that Big Tech CEOs (Twitter) having the power to ban the sitting POTUS from their platforms should worry anyone concerned about freedom of expression.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
How long until some conservative shitheel says "SEE! OUR DEMOCRACY SCORE FELL, THAT MEANS THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED!1!"
 

LukeOP

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,749
Generally not surprising, but

"Increasing threats to freedom of expression?"

What's that about?

EDIT: Okay, looked through the document - they were saying that Big Tech CEOs (Twitter) having the power to ban the sitting POTUS from their platforms should worry anyone concerned about freedom of expression.

It should actually have the opposite effect. In fact, it's the single biggest form of freedom of expression exhibited in the history of the United States.
 

Moppeh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,538
Quite frankly, I think any FPTP system should be considered "flawed democracy".
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,604
There's a point where private platforms become the de facto public forums (Twitter and Facebook have arguably reached this already). A business wielding the banhammer that allows access to public discourse and not the government is always worrying for a democracy.

It's not that Twitter banned Trump, it's that they have that discretion at all is the problem.
 

LukeOP

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,749
There's a point where private platforms become the de facto public forums (Twitter and Facebook have arguably reached this already). A business wielding the banhammer that allows access to public discourse and not the government is always worrying for a democracy.

It's not that Twitter banned Trump, it's that they have that discretion at all is the problem.

Allowing government to have control over public discourse and freedom of speech is fascism and by definition anti American.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,676
It's not that Twitter banned Trump, it's that they have that discretion at all is the problem.
Private platforms need to have a TOS that is applicable to all of its users, no matter any individual's political power, otherwise you get shit like Parler and 8chan (which almost inevitably lead to deadly violence in turn). I think though we can argue the flaws of Big Tech, but Trump being banned isn't the hill to die on regarding such issues. Like, we shouldn't balk when companies do good things lol.
 

iwam

Member
Aug 7, 2019
95
The Pinochet-supporting Economist is such a joke. It is very telling that the magazine is only doing this now - when it actually affects the kind of people that read the magazine - when America has had problems with democracy for a very long time.

Poor people can't effectively vote due to having to work and not being able to get Voter ID. The Electoral College means that your vote doesn't matter unless you happen to live in a swing state that is randomly chosen by sociocultural conditions. The FPTP system means that the diversity of public opinion is funnelled into two extremely big boxes - imagine if every restaurant only had two items on the menu. Citizens United means that the wealthy and powerful have a far greater voice than the average citizen. The US isn't a country where all men are created equal.

Allowing government to have control over public discourse and freedom of speech is fascism and by definition anti American.

No, it's not fascism - fascism is a political ideology, not a byword for "heavy-handed authoritarianism". Tech companies' control over individuals is a symptom, not a problem; the problem is their monopolistic nature that is exclusively remedied by breaking them up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,573
Racoon City
Private platforms need to have a TOS that is applicable to all of its users, no matter any individual's political power, otherwise you get shit like Parler and 8chan (which almost inevitably lead to deadly violence in turn). I think though we can argue the flaws of Big Tech, but Trump being banned isn't the hill to die on regarding such issues. Like, we shouldn't balk when companies do good things lol.

That part.
 

iwam

Member
Aug 7, 2019
95
How would you break up something like Twitter though? It's not really the same as Facebook buying up Instagram and WhatsApp.

Make it an distributed service that can be operated by multiple companies, similar to email. It's how our phone and internet lines work in NZ and it works pretty well, though admittedly doing that with a formerly proprietary service itself is uncharted territory.

Jacinda will save us all.

Although NZ's democracy is a lot better than the US's, it still has reasonable flaws; it's far from a paradise. Off the top of my head:
  • Major parties get more TV ad spending, leading to entrenchment of power by the two major parties
  • Parties under 5% of the vote are excluded from power, leading to entrenchment of power by the two major parties
MMP here only really came about by a fluke, so the two big parties didn't want to give up all their power... Not to mention my country has tangible problems that you don't hear about very often which challenge the image many people have; it is one of the most unequal counties in the OECD for instance.
 
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mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,289
Australia
Make it an distributed service that can be operated by multiple companies, similar to email. It's how our phone and internet lines work in NZ and it works pretty well, though admittedly doing that with a formerly proprietary service itself is uncharted territory.
If NZ does it like here in Australia it's different than how Twitter works. The back haul hardware is separate from the ISPs.
 

iwam

Member
Aug 7, 2019
95
If NZ does it like here in Australia it's different than how Twitter works. The back haul hardware is separate from the ISPs.

Such hardware can be separated. Once upon a time, it was all owned by one company: Telecom. I'm aware that an internet service differs from the internet itself, but it's still feasible imo.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
There are some twitter "rivals", the two I know of are kirakiratter and mastodon. Only weebs use kirakiratter and mastodon is far too complicated.

I'd like to see twitter nationalized (to get it away from Dorsey) and then decentralized. Throw it on the blockchain if you must.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
Make it an distributed service that can be operated by multiple companies, similar to email. It's how our phone and internet lines work in NZ and it works pretty well, though admittedly doing that with a formerly proprietary service itself is uncharted territory.

That's what forums are, and that has allowed forums with poor moderation to enable radicalization.

I mean mastodon hosted for a time hosted gab which was a kind of precursor to Parler.
 

mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,289
Australia
Such hardware can be separated. Once upon a time, it was all owned by one company: Telecom. I'm aware that an internet service differs from the internet itself, but it's still feasible imo.
Twitter doesn't have hardware like how the internet does. They have servers but that's different, nothing is keeping them to any particular one. All I can think is making the APIs open, but that wouldn't do much.
 

JaseC64

Enlightened
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,008
Strong Island NY
The stuff about Twitter is stupid.

If they were to say ban Obama because they were racist I think a huge backlash would happen. Them banning Trump because he was inciting an insurrection is not something to be concerned about. That's like someone on the right bitching their leader lost his Twitter. Thats it. If anything Twitter rules need to be more strict on public officials. Any scent of fascism should get them a soft ban followed by a hard ban if they keep it up. Also American presidents have been ok without social media the last 50 years. Just because we had a lard ass who didn't do his job be online 80% of his time doesn't mean every president needs to worry about Twitter.

Thus whole thing is stupid. I think it was Germany who was upset Trump was banned lol. Give me a break. People on the left have to stop defending the worse people on the right when they get themselves in trouble over dumb shit.
 

iwam

Member
Aug 7, 2019
95
Twitter doesn't have hardware like how the internet does. They have servers but that's different, nothing is keeping them to any particular one. All I can think is making the APIs open, but that wouldn't do much.

I'm fully aware of that. I would imagine something similar to email, where individuals/companies could provide hosting, and then they could interoperate. Basically convert it into a semi-commercial equivalent of Mastodon.

That's what forums are, and that has allowed forums with poor moderation to enable radicalization.

I mean mastodon hosted for a time hosted gab which was a kind of precursor to Parler.

Radicals will always find somewhere to meet. Reminds me of rich while liberals wanting to ban Telegram when people in Africa and Asia are using it to fight their oppressive governments. I don't think that is any excuse enough for giving everything to one mega corporation full of techbros.

And Gab and Parler aren't really equivalent; when both were prominent, Gab catered more to the chan/alt-right demo, while Parler was more of a boomer/vanilla MAGA site.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,096
Sydney
There's a point where private platforms become the de facto public forums (Twitter and Facebook have arguably reached this already). A business wielding the banhammer that allows access to public discourse and not the government is always worrying for a democracy.

It's not that Twitter banned Trump, it's that they have that discretion at all is the problem.

Yeah I do think Liberals and Leftists do a pretty non-compelling dodge on the "it's a private company it can do what it wants" with regards to the big social media companies, the problem however with the Economist's scoring is that this state of affairs was present long before 2021 so it shouldn't have been Trump's banning that changed that. They only kept him on there in the past because he drove engagement and made them money which isn't terribly good for democracy either.
 

Tremorah

Member
Dec 3, 2018
4,951
With the way it works in the US its shocking its even that high, just goes to show how fucked up the world still is
 

whytemyke

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,783
Number 25 in your programs, number 1 in your hearts!

really though, the country was never intended to be democratic so that we're even 25 is kinda surprising I guess. The last few months certainly didn't give anyone the illusion that the USA should be ranked higher, that's for sure
 

JoeHisaishi

Banned
Jan 30, 2021
122
With the way it works in the US its shocking its even that high, just goes to show how fucked up the world still is
These aren't scientific lists. They're made by some guy or a small team with heavy biases.

They will always favour certain groups and values and it's why certain nations no matter how undemocratic they may seem always rank highly. They favour their own kind. It's why all these Democracy and Freedom and Liberty indexes are all a crock of shit. You can literally skew them to however you want.

Case in point. US Lobby system. A closed system which allows you access to and favours from US Politicians and getting your message heard. Money and finding is the arbitor of you getting access to your politician. It is dominated by corporate interests. Biggest voices, biggest wallets.

By any other countries standard. That would be corruption. But because it's systemised and integrated into the US political system it gets a pass.

If a third world country had a similar system. It'd be called corruption.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,500
if you violate tos and are a threat to society, you should be held accountable just like anyone else, at the very least.

if the motherfucker wanted to get his message out, he could've called a press conference at any point or talked to reporter or literally anything else.

twitter did good for once, and they shouldve done it earlier.
 

Fromskap

Member
Sep 6, 2019
321
Makes me confident of our (Norway's) political system when we've had one of our most right-wing governments since the war (and probably one of the most right-wing that is currently possible), yet we're still comfortably on top. Then last year the government rearranged further left.
Keep in mind that "most right-wing" in Norway is pretty far left in US terms. No represented party in Norway wants to do away with our social systems, as an example. So I don't know if our political system has been tested too rigorously.
 
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.Detective.

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,660
3. Sweden 9.26
4. New Zealand 9.25
5. Canada 9.24

^
Look at this fucking standoff. Great company to be in, but overall, I was glad that Canada did so well, considering it was the largest of the countries in the Top 10.