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Oct 25, 2017
10,832
"Trump did all sorts of shit and EO's."

Biden's annual average of EO's is higher than Trump.
Biden is going to release new EO's pertaining to abortion and use his powers to help protect women as much as possible.
So what exactly is the issue?

They won't be big defiant actions that scream "NO" at the Supreme Court. Even if those actions are 100% going to get shut down some people want to see that to feel better.

What will happen is that it will be a repeat of voting rights vote with people continuing to shit on Biden despite him pushing for that show vote to "show" that he is fighting for something even though everyone knew it was a doomed vote.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
This was the tweet and story that broke me today, btw. In case anyone is curious why I just came outta nowhere pissed like this.
Right, like I'm aware that the President is not emperor, trust me. But the whole "oh we dont wanna undermine foundations ;-; " shit is infuriating. The foundations are IN THE FUCKING OCEAN AND COLLAPSING.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
Right, like I'm aware that the President is not emperor, trust me. But the whole "oh we dont wanna undermine foundations ;-; " shit is infuriating. The foundations are IN THE FUCKING OCEAN AND COLLAPSING.

Establishment D's are living in an idea of a country that only exists in their heads. And all of them are filthy rich, and all save for a handful are white, so the country slipping into this theocratic nightmare doesn't really affect them the way it does everyone else. I've just learned to accept that this party is gonna sit by and let all this happen.

I'm just gonna start recommending to people that they just seek to leave the country. Its over - best to live out the painful death of the USA from outside of it, cause its gonna get downright scary in here over the next decade or two.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
I mean I see why you guys are upset. Lets be real. Public confidence in Congress AND the SC is in the trenches.

I realize Biden can't DO much, but saying he's worried about undermining those institutions? Aint nobody trying to hear that right now if you're a dem. Maybe this is to appeal to independents, but you shouldn't do so at the expense of your base.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
Establishment D's are living in an idea of a country that only exists in their heads. And all of them are filthy rich, and all save for a handful are white, so the country slipping into this theocratic nightmare doesn't really affect them the way it does everyone else. I've just learned to accept that this party is gonna sit by and let all this happen.

I'm just gonna start recommending to people that they just seek to leave the country. Its over - best to live out the painful death of the USA from outside of it, cause its gonna get downright scary in here over the next decade or two.

Most people, especially black and brown people can't just up and leave though. That's horrible advice.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
I mean I see why you guys are upset. Lets be real. Public confidence in Congress AND the SC is in the trenches.

I realize Biden can't DO much, but saying he's worried about undermining those institutions? Aint nobody trying to hear that right now if you're a dem. Maybe this is to appeal to independents, but you shouldn't do so at the expense of your base.
One of these institutions just signaled that they want to roll back constitutional rights on 3 other fronts after rolling back one, and Biden is the one who is concerned with doing anything that would damage their reputation even further? Fuck outta here.

And why is it that every single fucking time folks on the left say how these right-wing maneuvers are gonna be used to further hurt folks, all we get met with is how we are being hyperbolic? And often times by establishment democrats - not even by Republicans! This is why, outside of a handful of folks, i'm just gonna start treating the D's as right-wingers, only with virtue-signaling instead of overt racism.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
Most people, especially black and brown people can't just up and leave though. That's horrible advice.
Never said it would be easy, but however difficult that may be will pale in comparison to how fucking *awful* things are gonna get here.

I come from an immigrant background and am a PoC. I've seen first hand how difficult immigrating to here with nothing and how challenging that is for everyone involved. But given how bad things are gonna get here (like, the SCOTUS literally indicated not even a week ago that they wanna ban gay sex and the Democrats are talking about how worried they are about the image of the court), finding a way out of here, even with nothing, is gonna be preferable to staying here.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,832
I've just learned to accept that this party is gonna sit by and let all this happen.

I think people would be better off once they accept that NOTHING can be done until November. And that is only in the miracle scenario where Dems keep the House and expand the Senate by enough to be able to vote to gut the filibuster. But that is unlikely so the best chance is the 2024 election. That is when something might be done about abortion rights on the federal level. All roads are closed to any meaningful Federal action due to a hostile Supreme Court and turds like Manchin and Sinema.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,897
Right, like I'm aware that the President is not emperor, trust me. But the whole "oh we dont wanna undermine foundations ;-; " shit is infuriating. The foundations are IN THE FUCKING OCEAN AND COLLAPSING.
If you read the article, the big, bold moves that he will not pursue are:
1. Pack the Court
2. End the Filibuster
3. Permit abortions on federal lands

He can't do 1 and 2, and 3 could result in many people sitting in jail while Texas vs USA is fought in…this conservative Court.

The framing of that tweet and story is egregious.
They won't be big defiant actions that scream "NO" at the Supreme Court. Even if those actions are 100% going to get shut down some people want to see that to feel better.

What will happen is that it will be a repeat of voting rights vote with people continuing to shit on Biden despite him pushing for that show vote to "show" that he is fighting for something even though everyone knew it was a doomed vote.
Performative politics, and the need to have big, powerful phrases is the worst.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
I think people would be better off once they accept that NOTHING can be done until November. And that is only in the miracle scenario where Dems keep the House and expand the Senate by enough to be able to vote to gut the filibuster. But that is unlikely so the best chance is the 2024 election. That is when something might be done about abortion rights on the federal level. All roads are closed to any meaningful Federal action due to a hostile Supreme Court and turds like Manchin and Sinema.
I'll eat my hat if that happens. I'm fully expecting an electoral bloodbath.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
Never said it would be easy, but however difficult that may be will pale in comparison to how fucking *awful* things are gonna get here.

I come from an immigrant background and am a PoC. I've seen first hand how difficult immigrating to here with nothing and how challenging that is for everyone involved. But given how bad things are gonna get here (like, the SCOTUS literally indicated not even a week ago that they wanna ban gay sex and the Democrats are talking about how worried they are about the image of the court), finding a way out of here, even with nothing, is gonna be preferable to staying here.

This Country has dealt with far worse than what's happening now tbh and fought to change it. Your advice is to tell people to move. That's it. Trust me I get the frustration, but I had ancestors die for the right to vote and a better future. No one said it would easy or constantly permanent.

Where would they move? Another Country with the same potential for this shit to happen?
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
14,891
User Banned (3 days): Use of Homophobic language
At this point if you're still one of those corny Democrats/liberals who can't look at the current landscape and realize the Democratic party as a whole is essentially useless and we need real leftists and progressives replacing this geriatric circus of corporate-cock-suckers - there's no hope for you. Whether it's Biden waxing poetic about the good old days of politics (which still sucked) and only NOW realizing what we're dealing with, Nancy Pelosi telling us we need a "strong republican party", using Manchin and Sinema as excuses, telling us we can't do stuff because of the fucking Parlimentarian, Sotomayor telling us how nice Clarence is, Finestein hugging Graham, everyone constantly pointing to the rule book while the GOP laughs and rules by minority and all on the so-called left generally appearing to have zero urgency about an impending Christofascist state - it all points to the death of this idiotic party which committed suicide because it kept telling itself - and us - that all we had to do was reach across the aisle and go high when they go low and we don't need to worry about reversal of rights instead of using their power to improve the material conditions of people, reduce suffering and save lives; because of a delusional view of this country as somehow being above turning into a right-wing hellhole instead of recognizing it for the wretched, right-wing, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted, violent shit-hole it is.

Fuck Bill Clinton. Fuck Barack Obama. Fuck Joe Biden. Fuck Nancy Pelosi and fuck the DCCC. Losers. Weaklings. Morons. And, most importantly: participants in this whole little game, comfortable knowing they're insulated from the negative effects hundreds of millions of Americans will face.
 


Moderate Dems continue to be absolutely chickenshit and will suffer for it.

Did you actually read the piece or not?

What are the bits here:
- Supreme Court Reform
- Filibuster Removal/carveout
- Abortion on Federal Lands

1. Supreme Court Reform (from term limits, expanding, etc) is never happening even if Biden wanted it just look at the Senate, this requires removing the filibuster which they don't have the numbers for.

2. Again refer to Number 1.

3. This has alot of hoops to look at and consider even than,
- Hyde Amendment
- As providers are not Federal Employees and all the issues that come from it
- Laws just in state that ban abortion
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
I think people would be better off once they accept that NOTHING can be done until November. And that is only in the miracle scenario where Dems keep the House and expand the Senate by enough to be able to vote to gut the filibuster. But that is unlikely so the best chance is the 2024 election. That is when something might be done about abortion rights on the federal level. All roads are closed to any meaningful Federal action due to a hostile Supreme Court and turds like Manchin and Sinema.

The folks in here thinking that the D's have anything resembling a shot in November just aren't in-touch with folks on the ground and how voters are feeling. The democrats are gonna get straight embarrassed this November and in 2024. Literal blood-bath. And the GOP is gonna straight up just start stealing elections now. Not even gonna hide it. and the SCOTUS will back them up 6-3 every fucking time too.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
If you read the article, the big, bold moves that he will not pursue are:
1. Pack the Court
2. End the Filibuster
3. Permit abortions on federal lands

He can't do 1 and 2, and 3 could result in many people sitting in jail while Texas vs USA is fought in…this conservative Court.

The framing of that tweet and story is egregious.
Did you actually read the piece or not?

What are the bits here:
- Supreme Court Reform
- Filibuster Removal/carveout
- Abortion on Federal Lands

1. Supreme Court Reform (from term limits, expanding, etc) is never happening even if Biden wanted it just look at the Senate, this requires removing the filibuster which they don't have the numbers for.

2. Again refer to Number 1.

3. This has alot of hoops to look at and consider even than,
- Hyde Amendment
- As providers are not Federal Employees and all the issues that come from it
- Laws just in state that ban abortion
I'm aware those aren't in the cards. Its the "Undermining foundations" part that has me steaming.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,832
The folks in here thinking that the D's have anything resembling a shot in November just aren't in-touch with folks on the ground and how voters are feeling. The democrats are gonna get straight embarrassed this November and in 2024. Literal blood-bath. And the GOP is gonna straight up just start stealing elections now. Not even gonna hide it. and the SCOTUS will back them up 6-3 every fucking time too.

There's a reason I said it was unlikely and that 2024 was the best shot. And making predictions about 2024 and how it will go bad for Dems then is just insanity right now.

I'm aware those aren't in the cards. Its the "Undermining foundations" part that has me steaming.

Biden and officials are concerned that more radical moves would be politically polarizing ahead of November's midterm elections, undermine public trust in institutions like the Supreme Court or lack strong legal footing, sources inside and outside the White House say.

"sources inside and outside say"

I wouldn't get upset about such statements when we have no idea who is saying what and what knowledge they have of Biden.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
Of course not. The statement is still infuriating. I outright said I'm aware the President is not an Emperor.

Its just crazy that when the GOP puts a President in the office, they literally act like a fucking Emperor and do w/e they want. Dems put one in there and its just hand-wringing and 'but the senate', 'but bipartisanship'. And then they wonder why they are losing non-educated voters in droves the way they are. Last few samples I saw being discussed on PSA talked about how even Latin and African American voters were still continuing their shift in voting R, and yet we see absolutely NOTHING from the Dems to combat this. The Dems cannot win elections without minority votes, yet do nothing for these groups all the time.

Like I said, i'm just done with this party, and this country. Its over. I'm just gonna plot where i'm gonna move to and what language i'll have to learn to get by there.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
Clearly the only acceptable solution to this tweet is to put Trump back in office. That'll teach us.
How about just inverse-Trump? Just a leftist version of him? How about just someone who is willing to get as visibly angry as we all are feeling right now. Someone who will lash out at the ones who want to subjugate their fellow Americans, the way Trump would lash at his perceived enemies? Instead of just bullshit and excuses and apologies for doing nothing.

Say what you will about the big dumb orange dummy - he at least fucking tried for his folks and yelled at his own party when they got in his way. Even when Manchin sank BBB, you didn't see Biden say a single bad thing about Manchin or Sinema; Trump would've made them fucking enemies 1 and 2 if they got in his way.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,832
Like I said, i'm just done with this party, and this country. Its over. I'm just gonna plot where i'm gonna move to and what language i'll have to learn to get by there.

Alright then. Aidos and good luck with everyone. It'll be for the best if you completely block out all news about US politics and divorce yourself from it both in real life and on the internet.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
Its just crazy that when the GOP puts a President in the office, they literally act like a fucking Emperor and do w/e they want. Dems put one in there and its just hand-wringing and 'but the senate', 'but bipartisanship'. And then they wonder why they are losing non-educated voters in droves the way they are. Last few samples I saw being discussed on PSA talked about how even Latin and African American voters were still continuing their shift in voting R, and yet we see absolutely NOTHING from the Dems to combat this. The Dems cannot win elections without minority votes, yet do nothing for these groups all the time.

Like I said, i'm just done with this party, and this country. Its over. I'm just gonna plot where i'm gonna move to and what language i'll have to learn to get by there.
So you want a dictator? I get frustrated with Dem leadership plenty of times too, but I do not support a further move than we already have to a dictatorship like government.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,897
I'm aware those aren't in the cards. Its the "Undermining foundations" part that has me steaming.
We are watching public hearings about how the former President attempted to undermine our democratic foundations and we want that displaced by the current President undermining another co-equal branch of power? If the President doesn't hold the Court's supremacy as valid and undermines it on Rulings that it does not agree with, can Governors do the same? At the end, won't more people suffer if we then have Red States disregarding some of the protections that have been granted by rulings from the SC as they are caught in the crossfire between state and federal authority?

I mean, I think everyone is frustrated and angry. But we are legitimately doing the Conservative's work by directing that anger internally, as opposed to keeping them on the hook for their appalling deeds.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
So you want a dictator? I get frustrated with Dem leadership plenty of times too, but I do not support a further move than we already have to a dictatorship like government.
Look - we don't have a choice: we are getting a fascist government. If I have to choose the one we're getting, i'd vastly prefer a liberal one than the conservative nightmare thats about to be imposed on us. We aren't living in a country where getting a functioning democracy is in the cards anymore. Its not. Thats off the table now.
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
I think people would be better off once they accept that NOTHING can be done until November. And that is only in the miracle scenario where Dems keep the House and expand the Senate by enough to be able to vote to gut the filibuster. But that is unlikely so the best chance is the 2024 election. That is when something might be done about abortion rights on the federal level. All roads are closed to any meaningful Federal action due to a hostile Supreme Court and turds like Manchin and Sinema.
It's always the next election.
Always.
Can't do anything with this set of politicians, so elect us again, and elect more of us.
And then we do.
And then they say "elect more of us in two years".
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
We are watching public hearings about how the former President attempted to undermine our democratic foundations and we want that displaced by the current President undermining another co-equal branch of power? If the President doesn't hold the Court's supremacy as valid and undermines it on Rulings that it does not agree with, can Governors do the same? At the end, won't more people suffer if we then have Red States disregarding some of the protections that have been granted by rulings from the SC as they are caught in the crossfire between state and federal authority?

I mean, I think everyone is frustrated and angry. But we are legitimately doing the Conservative's work by directing that anger internally, as opposed to keeping them on the hook for their appalling deeds.
Public hearings which, btw, despite how flagrantly obvious this is all actionable under the law, yet we have this same commission arguing that they shouldn't make a criminal recommendation. And Garland is sitting doing fuck-all until some blatant testimony literally forces his hand, all while we all fully know that the GOP will both get away with every single thing being shown here, Trump won't be indicted, and the obvious plan to steal elections going forward goes off without a hitch next time around.
 

Adder7806

Member
Dec 16, 2018
4,120
How about just inverse-Trump? Just a leftist version of him? How about just someone who is willing to get as visibly angry as we all are feeling right now. Someone who will lash out at the ones who want to subjugate their fellow Americans, the way Trump would lash at his perceived enemies? Instead of just bullshit and excuses and apologies for doing nothing.

Say what you will about the big dumb orange dummy - he at least fucking tried for his folks and yelled at his own party when they got in his way. Even when Manchin sank BBB, you didn't see Biden say a single bad thing about Manchin or Sinema; Trump would've made them fucking enemies 1 and 2 if they got in his way.
I don't want the democratic party run like a dictatorship. You dont, in fact, have to hand it to Trump. I like the big tent. I also understand if we don't want the Manchins and Sinemas blocking everything then the only solution is to elect more Democrats and make those 2 irrelevant. Sucks but it's how it is. More Democrats, less Republicans. That's the way it's always needed to be.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,832
It's always the next election.
Always.
Can't do anything with this set of politicians, so elect us again, and elect more of us.
And then we do.
And then they say "elect more of us in two years".

We've had 48 Dems vote to gut the filibuster to pass voting. Two more Dems willing to do that will ensure voting rights pass. That's something concrete you can fucking bet on.
 

Sibersk Esto

Changed the hierarchy of thread titles
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,475
How about just inverse-Trump? Just a leftist version of him? How about just someone who is willing to get as visibly angry as we all are feeling right now. Someone who will lash out at the ones who want to subjugate their fellow Americans, the way Trump would lash at his perceived enemies? Instead of just bullshit and excuses and apologies for doing nothing.

Say what you will about the big dumb orange dummy - he at least fucking tried for his folks and yelled at his own party when they got in his way. Even when Manchin sank BBB, you didn't see Biden say a single bad thing about Manchin or Sinema; Trump would've made them fucking enemies 1 and 2 if they got in his way.

Look - we don't have a choice: we are getting a fascist government. If I have to choose the one we're getting, i'd vastly prefer a liberal one than the conservative nightmare thats about to be imposed on us. We aren't living in a country where getting a functioning democracy is in the cards anymore. Its not. Thats off the table now.

You…do understand that people who operate like that don't give a shit about helping people right?

Liberal dictator…cmon
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
We've had 48 Dems vote to gut the filibuster to pass voting. Two more Dems willing to do that will ensure voting rights pass. That's something concrete you can fucking bet on.
Join me, if you will, in the final days of January, 2023.
We have 52 Democratic senators now. Boom. 50 of them, without question, will vote to gut the filibuster. Gone.
We have also lost the house.
Now what?
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
Look - we don't have a choice: we are getting a fascist government. If I have to choose the one we're getting, i'd vastly prefer a liberal one than the conservative nightmare thats about to be imposed on us. We aren't living in a country where getting a functioning democracy is in the cards anymore. Its not. Thats off the table now.
How about we just reject ALL fascism and not be like "fascism but from the left is ok with me"
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
We've had 48 Dems vote to gut the filibuster to pass voting. Two more Dems willing to do that will ensure voting rights pass. That's something concrete you can fucking bet on.
If you think there weren't any other D's hiding behind Manchin and Sinema, then I hope we get the ultimate scenario of having 2 new Ds elected this November, only to find out theres another asshole or two who don't wanna gut the filibuster who just come up out of nowhere.

There were several DC insiders even during the BBB debacle straight up saying there were 2, maybe 3 other D's hiding behind Sinema/Manchin. We're being played cause the corporate class has bought out just enough of the Democratic party to make it ineffective. Its just the way things are here.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,832
Join me, if you will, in the final days of January, 2023.
We have 52 Democratic senators now. Boom. 50 of them, without question, will vote to gut the filibuster. Gone.
We have also lost the house.
Now what?

Wait until 2024 elections to have a shot to regain the House and keep a filibuster killing Dem Senate majority.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,897
This was like the first positive day in this OT in a while because of a few polls and now we're back, lol.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,832
If you think there weren't any other D's hiding behind Manchin and Sinema, then I hope we get the ultimate scenario of having 2 new Ds elected this November, only to find out theres another asshole or two who don't wanna gut the filibuster who just come up out of nowhere.

I mean, if anyone else felt that way they certainly could have voted no along with Manchin and Sinema. I mean, a few of them did vote against the minimum wage stuff in ARP. And if there are a bunch of losers that chose to hide then they fucking losers that can be pushed or leaned on. True believers or shitstains like Manchin and Sinema can't.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
How about we just reject ALL fascism and not be like "fascism but from the left is ok with me"
I would love nothing more than to live in the functional democracy I was told America was when growing up in school. We just don't live in that world right now, and we're gonna get a fascist dictatorship regardless. Appealing to some institutional democracy while seeing every aspect of it being eroded in front of our very eyes, is just nonsense at this point. For as awesome the 'big tent' approach is on paper, the D's are getting their fuck asses handed to them and doing nothing about it.

If the choice is, functional democracy or liberal dictatorship, i'd pick functional democracy 10/10. But the options are conservative dictatorship and doing nothing to stop them, apparently.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
I mean, if anyone else felt that way they certainly could have voted no along with Manchin and Sinema. I mean, a few of them did vote against the minimum wage stuff in ARP. And if there are a bunch of losers that chose to hide then they fucking losers that can be pushed or leaned on. True believers or shitstains like Manchin and Sinema can't.
We didn't push on Sinema or Manchin. Not really. The grassroots and twitter crowd did. But the actual power-holders in the party? They said jack fucking shit. They literally gave Manchin everything he wanted just so he can say No, but much slower. And they will vote against fillibuster reform for the same reasons Manchin and Sinema are - bought and paid for by corporate interests.
 

Adder7806

Member
Dec 16, 2018
4,120
I would love nothing more than to live in the functional democracy I was told America was when growing up in school. We just don't live in that world right now, and we're gonna get a fascist dictatorship regardless. Appealing to some institutional democracy while seeing every aspect of it being eroded in front of our very eyes, is just nonsense at this point. For as awesome the 'big tent' approach is on paper, the D's are getting their fuck asses handed to them and doing nothing about it.

If the choice is, functional democracy or liberal dictatorship, i'd pick functional democracy 10/10. But the options are conservative dictatorship and doing nothing to stop them, apparently.
Jfc. You were lied to in school. Columbus isn't a hero. Santa doesn't exist. Quit throwing your ketchup against the wall and go put your anger towards helping people who need it. Or exit stage right.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,832
We didn't push on Sinema or Manchin. Not really. The grassroots and twitter crowd did. But the actual power-holders in the party? They said jack fucking shit. They literally gave Manchin everything he wanted just so he can say No, but much slower. And they will vote against fillibuster reform for the same reasons Manchin and Sinema are - bought and paid for by corporate interests.

I think you literally have no idea of what Dems tried. We know Dems lobbied them a fair bit to agree to the filibuster carveout only for it to be naught. Any other kind of "pressure" is fucking insanity given the circumstances of the Senate. Manchin is the type of shit that will take his ball and go home if you even attempt to pressure him. He did with BBB last December. 50/50 Senate is super extreme nightmare mode.

But in any case, reality is that 48 Dems voted for the filibuster and I don't expect them to change their stance if they get another chance to vote for filibuster reform for voting rights. Believing otherwise is just being too insanely cynical.
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
We didn't push on Sinema or Manchin. Not really. The grassroots and twitter crowd did. But the actual power-holders in the party? They said jack fucking shit. They literally gave Manchin everything he wanted just so he can say No, but much slower. And they will vote against fillibuster reform for the same reasons Manchin and Sinema are - bought and paid for by corporate interests.
I actually agree, that Democratic leadership (whatever you think that might be; people or corporations) haven't done nearly enough to push Manchin and Sinema. They should have threatened to cut off all donations, and withhold any donations from average citizens. They should have been stripped of any committee assignments. Their websites should have been shut down. Primary challengers should have been immediately assembled. Paint these two as the raging pariahs they are, and turn the entire "fuck these people" machine that we often use against Republicans towards these two. Make it so bad for them that when they inevitably lose reelection, they have to flee the country in shame.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,897
I actually agree, that Democratic leadership (whatever you think that might be; people or corporations) haven't done nearly enough to push Manchin and Sinema. They should have threatened to cut off all donations, and withhold any donations from average citizens. They should have been stripped of any committee assignments. Their websites should have been shut down. Primary challengers should have been immediately assembled. Paint these two as the raging pariahs they are, and turn the entire "fuck these people" machine that we often use against Republicans towards these two. Make it so bad for them that when they inevitably lose reelection, they have to flee the country in shame.
I agree with this. If they had 52 Senators. They can't excommunicate Manchin or Sinema because both have the real ability to caucus with the GOP leaving Biden with only majority in the House.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,832
I actually agree, that Democratic leadership (whatever you think that might be; people or corporations) haven't done nearly enough to push Manchin and Sinema. They should have threatened to cut off all donations, and withhold any donations from average citizens. They should have been stripped of any committee assignments. Their websites should have been shut down. Primary challengers should have been immediately assembled. Paint these two as the raging pariahs they are, and turn the entire "fuck these people" machine that we often use against Republicans towards these two. Make it so bad for them that when they inevitably lose reelection, they have to flee the country in shame.

Literally the dumbest choice Dems could make with regards to those two. Dems need them right now. Pissing them off isn't going to do any Dem any good at all. Say goodbye to anything that Dems have been able to do. Hell, Imagine if the turd Clarance dies sometime this year but oops. You pissed off Manchin and Sinema and thus they won't vote to replace Clarance. Well played.
 
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