US PoliEra 2021 |OT 3| Rage Against The Manchin

[Deleted member 13101]

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No way he can even do chon-ji or toi-gye forms.

As for bbb "universal" stuff, it going to be that way. Each state has its own health and safety statutes as it is. Like others said, people in states may want it badly enough, and approving it is probably a good deflection from some of the state-level voting and abortion stuff going on.

 

[Maxim726x]

how the fuck. So it's fucked then. * for people in red states

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I don't understand the rationale here... Let it be challenged in state courts. If there are some states that find it incompatible with their laws (read: all extremely conservative states) so be it. There may be some that withstand legal scrutiny.

Am I missing something?

 

[Kusagari]

 

[Deleted member 70788]

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2024 is so far away it's hard to care.

 

[Thordinson]

I don't understand the rationale here... Let it be challenged in state courts. If there are some states that find it incompatible with their laws (read: all extremely conservative states) so be it. There may be some that withstand legal scrutiny.

Am I missing something?

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It's not really about challenging anything.

BBB requires the states to set up programs/have programs already to receive the federal funds. Most states don't have these programs so they will have to be set up through legislation. This will be hard to get through red states and even states with red chambers if the GOP follows their usual MO.

I thought the child care and pre-k were funded for a few years but then would fall to the states? or is it immediately if passed?

also, this NYTimes article from 2 years ago seems very positive on the prospects of the bill passing the Senate...

With Back Channels to Manchin and Sinema, Pelosi Found a Path to a Deal (Published 2021)

The House’s approval of a sweeping social policy bill after weeks of fits and starts notched another win for the speaker in a career defined by them.

www.nytimes.com

"But in the weeks since their call, Mr. Manchin has privately expressed an openness to embracing a costlier plan than the one he initially insisted upon, and the speaker now says she is confident that the measure approved by the House will re-emerge from the Senate mostly intact."

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It is paid for. States still have to have approved programs to accept the funds. If the state doesn't want to accept the funds for whatever reason, they don't have to which means there's no child care help nor funded pre-K in that state.

 

[Blader]

Why in the world would you implement it like this?

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Because Congress can't just force it onto states.

 

[Thordinson]

Because Congress can't just force it onto states.

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There are other ways to implement it such as direct payments but this is the easiest.

 

[My Tulpa]

Why in the world would you implement it like this?

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To ensure it remains, probably.

If you enforce it federally to all states through reconciliation budget shenanigans, you have a real shot for the whole thing to be thrown out.

At least this way, it stands and the reddist states who bow out will be browbeaten years later by its own constituency into moving towards progress

 

[Poodlestrike]

This might be a dumb question but what's stopping them from writing it such that the dept. of education just sets up a grant program or whatever and gives the money out directly to the daycares and pre-k? Or, for that matter, what's stopping the dept. of education or labor from setting up their own?

 

[Futureman]

This might be a dumb question but what's stopping them from writing it such that the dept. of education just sets up a grant program or whatever and gives the money out directly to the daycares and pre-k? Or, for that matter, what's stopping the dept. of education or labor from setting up their own?

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I'm guessing... sure, they could write it that way. But there's less of a chance of it being passed? I wouldn't be surprised if some of these senators like Manchin are ok with some of this spending full well knowing many red states will never actually approve it.

If a red state denies the daycare money, for example, what happens to that money?

 

[JesseEwiak]

This might be a dumb question but what's stopping them from writing it such that the dept. of education just sets up a grant program or whatever and gives the money out directly to the daycares and pre-k? Or, for that matter, what's stopping the dept. of education or labor from setting up their own?

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1.) From what I know, the vast majority of pre-K programs are in schools, so you'd need state gov't approval for those schools to accept the money anyway.

2.) Money being sent directly to child care centers could be seen as "Democrat's subsidizing left-wing big gov't child care centers to corrupt and indoctrinate your child," or "Democrat's want to force you to send your kids to only Democrat approved child care centers," or more plainly, "Democrat's want to teach anti-white hatred to pre-schoolers!"

3.) Centrists in the Senate are OK with state-based programs, but not wide federal programs.

 

[Tamanon]

Universal pre-k is a massive investment that needs to go through the states, as what even qualifies as pre-k goes through them. We are talking about something that will require a pretty huge hiring, training, and certification program to satisfy demand.

 

[Hellwarden]

My understanding is this won't really accomplish much, but the President is doing a thing, so it might make for some decent PR.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

My understanding is this won't really accomplish much, but the President is doing a thing, so it might make for some decent PR.

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Dems gotta parrot it for next 5 days for decent PR.

 

[madstarr12]

Dems can probably campaign in 2022 on approving the pre k and childcare in red states if Rs in red states don't approve it themselves. That could be a winning issue in some parts of the country that currently have R control.

 

[Deleted member 13101]

Pre-k funds benefit everyone because every place has a waiting list no matter the economic strata.

 

[XMonkey]

Which is the unprecedented part? Other countries doing it too? Because I'm pretty sure we've released oil from the strategic reserve to help with prices before.

 

[Meauxse]

Which is the unprecedented part? Other countries doing it too? Because I'm pretty sure we've released oil from the strategic reserve to help with prices before.

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Yup, other countries. Over the past decade we turned from importer to producer so we have a tenuous relationship with OPEC now, unlike the 90s.

 

[RoKKeR]

Looks like GA is getting gerrymandered to hell and back. So upsetting. It's going to be 9-5 R-D in a state in which the Dems took both the presidency and special elections last year. AGGHHHHHHH

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I seem to remember reading something about local cities, counties or school districts could apply to some grants for Pre-K or childcare funding, even if their state didn't? I can't find it, but to was posted here at some point. That would be a good move and pretty much mean repubs would only be screwing their own people by denying funding.

In addition, don't like 44 states already have headstart programs? Meaning that these red states may have to raise some standards but the infrastructure is already there, which gives less of a reason to deny funding.

 

[Thordinson]

I seem to remember reading something about local cities, counties or school districts could apply to some grants for Pre-K or childcare funding, even if their state didn't? I can't find it, but to was posted here at some point. That would be a good move and pretty much mean repubs would only be screwing their own people by denying funding.

In addition, don't like 44 states already have headstart programs? Meaning that these red states may have to raise some standards but the infrastructure is already there, which gives less of a reason to deny funding.

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Unless it's new or I missed it, I didn't see that part in the framework.

The infrastructure is here for Medicaid expansion but my state refuses to expand it. It's about hurting people.

Dems can probably campaign in 2022 on approving the pre k and childcare in red states if Rs in red states don't approve it themselves. That could be a winning issue in some parts of the country that currently have R control.

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With how demonized education is here, I'm not sure it will change all that many minds. I hope it would.

 

[JesseEwiak]

In addition, don't like 44 states already have headstart programs? Meaning that these red states may have to raise some standards but the infrastructure is already there, which gives less of a reason to deny funding.

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I mean, every state had Medicaid, but unfortunately, didn't stop them from wanting to expand it to the unworthy poor.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Additionally, given the nationalization of politics, providing services to their constituents is not in republican legislatures' interest as long as Dems are seen as being "in charge."

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes, I am aware of failed Medicaid expansions and repubs are shitheads, but education is unique in that even in red states districts have a lot of control. I swear, I read something about local grants from an article here. I will see if I can find it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

How Biden's social spending bill would provide free preschool - Nevada Current

WASHINGTON — If Pres. Joe Biden’s $3.5 trillion social spending package survives ongoing negotiations in Congress, key provisions of the plan would provide low-cost care for children from birth to kindergarten—investments that would benefit single parents and low-income families. Under the full...

www.nevadacurrent.com

Not the same article posted here, but here it is the same line I remember reading:

But it would be up to states whether they will buy into the program at all. Local governments would be able to opt in even if the state refuses.

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Makes sense, as schools and districts can apply for federal grants regardless of state. That is why I was saying repubs may just go ahead and quietly approve it and pretend it was their idea anyway if this is the case.

 

[Thordinson]

How Biden's social spending bill would provide free preschool - Nevada Current

WASHINGTON — If Pres. Joe Biden’s $3.5 trillion social spending package survives ongoing negotiations in Congress, key provisions of the plan would provide low-cost care for children from birth to kindergarten—investments that would benefit single parents and low-income families. Under the full...

www.nevadacurrent.com

Not the same article posted here, but here it is the same line I remember reading:



Makes sense, as schools and districts can apply for federal grants regardless of state. That is why I was saying repubs may just go ahead and quietly approve it and pretend it was their idea anyway if this is the case.

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You're correct.

Reading through it, it does allow local governments to accept the money. It doesn't seem to allow schools themselves to accept the money. Possibly districts though.

The only thing to be worried about then is a Republican government that can then decide not to give the funds to the localities.

 

[medinaria]

How Biden's social spending bill would provide free preschool - Nevada Current

WASHINGTON — If Pres. Joe Biden’s $3.5 trillion social spending package survives ongoing negotiations in Congress, key provisions of the plan would provide low-cost care for children from birth to kindergarten—investments that would benefit single parents and low-income families. Under the full...

www.nevadacurrent.com

Not the same article posted here, but here it is the same line I remember reading:



Makes sense, as schools and districts can apply for federal grants regardless of state. That is why I was saying repubs may just go ahead and quietly approve it and pretend it was their idea anyway if this is the case.

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local governments being able to opt in actually makes it... kind of interesting

I can envision some places where a lot of people start to be upset that they can't have pre-k in their city/school district/whatever, but the people fifteen minutes down the road can. you might have better luck driving local support that way, rather than leaving it to a state-by-state basis (which mostly means people who don't pay attention to politics never know) - never underestimate the number of parents who will be really annoyed about shit like this. school funding is really contentious at the local level, and your local government rejecting a load of federal money to give kids pre-school might cause some problems

 

[Adder7806]

I could see places like Texas banning districts from accepting the money, or at least trying too.

 

[Thordinson]

I could see places like Texas banning districts from accepting the money, or at least trying too.

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I'm honestly not sure if they could do that. Maybe by threatening to close the school districts or withhold other funding through the Texas Education Agency?

 

[Antrax]

This might be a dumb question but what's stopping them from writing it such that the dept. of education just sets up a grant program or whatever and gives the money out directly to the daycares and pre-k?

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You'd have to do some sort of cap system based on regional COL metrics. Otherwise you get US healthcare costs where everything costs a bazillion dollars because nobody actually pays that amount, or higher ed tuition where there are always govt backed loans. Without a cap, every daycare and pre-K facility would immediately see huge price increases up to whatever amount the feds would pay

 

[Chaos Legion]

Parnell suspends Pennsylvania Senate campaign

The Republican candidate lost a custody battle for his children after his estranged wife accused him of abuse.

www.politico.com

Dr Oz gonna jump in?

 

[SSF1991]

I uh... didn't know this.

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I guess Virginia's not getting this.

Thanks, Biden-Youngkin voters. =/

 

[Aaron]

local governments being able to opt in actually makes it... kind of interesting

I can envision some places where a lot of people start to be upset that they can't have pre-k in their city/school district/whatever, but the people fifteen minutes down the road can. you might have better luck driving local support that way, rather than leaving it to a state-by-state basis (which mostly means people who don't pay attention to politics never know) - never underestimate the number of parents who will be really annoyed about shit like this. school funding is really contentious at the local level, and your local government rejecting a load of federal money to give kids pre-school might cause some problems

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Yeah that's a very interesting wrinkle I can't say I was anticipating. There are a bunch of bright blue dots in red states, which has always tempered me having any kind of "let the red states suffer" mentality. If the cities are able to opt into these amazing programs while the rural bumfuck counties/towns stay out, that heavily mitigates the problem. Like you said, it could easily be made into a local elections issue as well.

 

[III-V]

I uh... didn't know this.

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dead in the water

 

[Chaos Legion]

I guess Virginia's not getting this.

Thanks, Biden-Youngkin voters. =/

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Why?

If West Virginia has universal Pre-K already, I feel like it'll be really hard to justify why an R state would not implement it. Especially as they bill themselves as the party of education.

 

[The Chosen One]

local governments being able to opt in actually makes it... kind of interesting

I can envision some places where a lot of people start to be upset that they can't have pre-k in their city/school district/whatever, but the people fifteen minutes down the road can. you might have better luck driving local support that way, rather than leaving it to a state-by-state basis (which mostly means people who don't pay attention to politics never know) - never underestimate the number of parents who will be really annoyed about shit like this. school funding is really contentious at the local level, and your local government rejecting a load of federal money to give kids pre-school might cause some problems

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Yeah I definitely could see this becoming a local issue that actually hurt Republican controlled areas. It's one thing for some far off city in California or New York to provide free Pre-K. But if you have places like St. Louis, Atlanta, Austin, and Minneapolis providing an education advantage over rural areas in their own state at the behest of Republican officials then that could stir things up. Also long-term if students in rural areas are falling further behind in test scores then at some point an angry parent is going to say, "How come we don't get free Pre-K like in the big cities?" Like Obamacare, they won't care if the policy originally came from a Democrat half a decade ago, they'll want their piece of the pie.

And btw, Pre-K does work. My son didn't goto Pre-K while my daughter did. My son is smarter academically than my daughter, but he didn't hit his stride until about 2nd grade. Whereas my daughter sailed through elementary and now in high school she's had about a half a point higher GPA than my son. Obviously can't credit everything to Pre-K and there's a ton of other factors but she just had a much smoother transition going into school both academically and socially and she's been able to ride that momentum.

 

[SSF1991]

Why?

If West Virginia has universal Pre-K already, I feel like it'll be really hard to justify why an R state would not implement it. Especially as they bill themselves as the party of education.

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Well, I hope you're right.

But considering how evil, cruel and shitty the GOP is...I'll be surprised if this happens in Virginia.

 

[Thordinson]

Yeah I definitely could see this becoming a local issue that actually hurt Republican controlled areas. It's one thing for some far off city in California or New York to provide free Pre-K. But if you have places like St. Louis, Atlanta, Austin, and Minneapolis providing an education advantage over rural areas in their own state at the behest of Republican officials then that could stir things up. Also long-term if students in rural areas are falling further behind in test scores then at some point an angry parent is going to say, "How come we don't get free Pre-K like in the big cities?" Like Obamacare, they won't care if the policy originally came from a Democrat half a decade ago, they'll want their piece of the pie.

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I hope that's the case but I'm not sure. San Antonio, for example, has free Pre-K for disadvantaged students and it doesn't seem like rural voters are fighting for it. Austin already has an educational advantage over the rural cities in Texas as it is.

I really do hope red states implement it.

 

[The Chosen One]

I hope that's the case but I'm not sure. San Antonio, for example, has free Pre-K for disadvantaged students and it doesn't seem like rural voters are fighting for it. Austin already has an educational advantage over the rural cities in Texas as it is.

I really do hope red states implement it.

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I think part of it is that some people don't want to consider themselves "disadvantaged" and they've been trained to think "on it's just for those welfare kids". But if free Pre-K becomes a common benefit across all socio-economic groups then I believe some of those preconceived barriers will start to come down. Especially when rural residents start hearing from their own friends / work associates that live in the city about receiving those benefits, then it'll become more normalized for them. But these things won't happen overnight. Often times good policy doesn't win elections in the near-term, but eventually the majority of the public will gravitate towards it..... after Democrats have been thrown out of office.

 

[Deleted member 13101]

https://p2phelps.org/expenses-are-up-140-for-ct-nonprofits-food-pantries/

Expenses are up 140% for CT nonprofit's food pantries.


This year, the organization is reporting that expenses are up 140 percent from the same time period in 2020.

There are a lot of reasons for that increase, Coughlin said. She described the current financial crunch as multifaceted: The economy is seeing record inflation; social nets from the pandemic, like stimulus money and readily available unemployment benefits, are tapering off; and the state's eviction moratorium lifted June 30, leaving tenants in lower Fairfield County — already dealing with a lack of affordable housing — struggling to pay rent.

Person to Person sources much of its food wholesale. It relies on food drives and donations. What it can't source for free or with reduced prices, it pays for. But the cost of everyday fresh food staples is up — like onions, which are up 33 percent, Coughlin said.

 

[Lmo2017]

At least this way, it stands and the reddist states who bow out will be browbeaten years later by its own constituency into moving towards progress

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You don't know Alabama very well.

 

[Articalys]

Republicans are rigging elections for the next decade

Gerrymandering is turning swing states like Georgia and Ohio deep red.

www.motherjones.com

In state after state under GOP control, Republicans are passing extreme gerrymandered maps that will allow them to pick up enough seats to retake the US House in 2022 and lock-in dominance of state legislatures for the next decade.

This has not been a fair fight. While Republicans are doing everything they can to consolidate and expand their power, congressional Democrats have failed to overcome four Republican filibusters of voting rights legislation that would ban partisan and racial gerrymandering. That means GOP-controlled states have undertaken extraordinary efforts to undermine voting access and fair representation but Washington Democrats have taken no action to protect the right to vote.

[...]

"Defenders of democracy in America still have a slim window of opportunity to act," more than 150 leading democracy scholars wrote in a letter on Monday. "But time is ticking away, and midnight is approaching. To lose our democracy but preserve the filibuster in its current form—in which a minority can block popular legislation without even having to hold the floor—would be a short-sighted blunder that future historians will forever puzzle over."

[...]

It's difficult to overstate the extent to which election results for the next decade will be determined by the maps passing right now. And if Democrats don't do anything to stop it while they're in power, they'll look back at the failure to do so once out of power as the biggest missed opportunity of Biden's presidency, both for the Democratic Party and, more importantly, for democracy itself.

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So forgive me for being somewhat alarmed that we're still seeing naïve garbage like this:



when the truth is that without voting rights, GOP controlled states are trying their hardest to make it a reality where the power of any votes against them are negated.

 

[Warhawk4Ever]

For the folks who still hold out optimism as it pertains to voting rights, i envy your optimism. I've mentally accepted things won't get better anytime soon.

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

Republicans are rigging elections for the next decade

Gerrymandering is turning swing states like Georgia and Ohio deep red.

www.motherjones.com

So forgive me for being somewhat alarmed that we're still seeing naïve garbage like this:



when the truth is that without voting rights, GOP controlled states are trying their hardest to make it a reality where the power of any votes against them are negated.

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Ugh, tweets like that make me sick. It ignores that actual systemic problems of our elections and just gives you a "inspirational" message about voting. It's so fucking lame, christ. Carve out the filbuster for voting rights. Or play dirty too and gerrymander shit for Democrats. I don't care.

I've also accepted that voting rights will not improve in our lifetime, they will only decay. Nobody's doing shit.

 

[Allietraa]

People are on some good shit if they think blue states/cities passing pre-k is going to motivate red states to do anything but lash out and try to shut those programs down(either appealing to SCOTUS or just passing laws to punish blue cities in red states until they can get back at the federal level and underfund it)

Like come on. lol. yall are smarter than that

 

[Chrome Hyena]

I wish big enough cities could function as independent city states of the United States. Fucking Red States want to screw themselves, fine, but let the people in the cities not have to suffer the nonsense and shitty laws.

 

[Futureman]

People are on some good shit if they think blue states/cities passing pre-k is going to motivate red states to do anything but lash out and try to shut those programs down(either appealing to SCOTUS or just passing laws to punish blue cities in red states until they can get back at the federal level and underfund it)

Like come on. lol. yall are smarter than that

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That's what I was thinking... Right wing media apparatus will whirl up and start seeding the idea that rural people's taxes are going to pay for free daycare in the drug filled cities.

 

[fontguy]

Republicans are rigging elections for the next decade

Gerrymandering is turning swing states like Georgia and Ohio deep red.

www.motherjones.com

So forgive me for being somewhat alarmed that we're still seeing naïve garbage like this:



when the truth is that without voting rights, GOP controlled states are trying their hardest to make it a reality where the power of any votes against them are negated.

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No, stop it. If your opponent enshrines into law an insurmountable structural advantage against you, just vote harder. Every election lost is a moral failing of Democratic voters, and any expectations you might have of our leaders are inherently unreasonable because the only viable tactics are complicity and inaction (so say our complicit and inactive leaders). If they fail, it's because of something you did.

 

[Iron_Maw]

No, stop it. If your opponent enshrines into law an insurmountable structural advantage against you, just vote harder. Every election lost is a moral failing of Democratic voters, and any expectations you might have of our leaders are inherently unreasonable because the only viable tactics are complicity and inaction (so say our complicit and inactive leaders). If they fail, it's because of something you did.

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Alright don't vote and just sit around complaining like your doing now while waiting for some divine savior to come save you.

Other people are still going to be doing work to vote just as they have been even under worse circumstances than now rather than pointless doom and glooming. This isn't really the thread for that anyway.

 

[fontguy]

Alright don't vote and just sit around complaining like your doing now while waiting for some divine savior to come save you.

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Well, if you insist…