• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 25, 2017
7,298
new jersey
If you're fine with America pulling out of Afghanistan when clearly we were the only thing holding it together, then bottom line is you're fine with Taliban control. I'm not sure why people are bending themselves in knots with "oh, well of course im not, but it is inevitable!". That's bullshit and you know it. America was the ONLY thing keeping some semblance of stability there. I'm not fine with us leaving, I served, and I know people who serve who know exactly what's going to happen to those people we promised to help and will be left to suffer the consequences of OUR promises in a few weeks. We're going to begin seeing people beheaded for bullshit, women and children sold into slavery, a country completely under the rule of a brutal and shitty regime.

We shouldn't have left, when we went into Afghanistan 20 years ago those in power KNEW we likely could never leave without what is about to happen. We have permanent bases all over the world, what's one more? It's disgraceful now all those soldiers who've died, and who have been maimed now will have done so in vain, for nothing. We never fully committed to eradicating the Taliban and so now 20 years later they will be worse off than when we went in.
No. No more occupying. No more pseudo colonies. Taliban is bad, but the Afghani people don't want the US there either.
 

Rainy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,665
As someone who was born and raised in California, but is now living across the country, it's actually scary how close the recall is. If Newsom loses..

God Gray Davis flashbacks.
 

Culex

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,844
If you're fine with America pulling out of Afghanistan when clearly we were the only thing holding it together, then bottom line is you're fine with Taliban control. I'm not sure why people are bending themselves in knots with "oh, well of course im not, but it is inevitable!". That's bullshit and you know it. America was the ONLY thing keeping some semblance of stability there. I'm not fine with us leaving, I served, and I know people who serve who know exactly what's going to happen to those people we promised to help and will be left to suffer the consequences of OUR promises in a few weeks. We're going to begin seeing people beheaded for bullshit, women and children sold into slavery, a country completely under the rule of a brutal and shitty regime.

We shouldn't have left, when we went into Afghanistan 20 years ago those in power KNEW we likely could never leave without what is about to happen. We have permanent bases all over the world, what's one more? It's disgraceful now all those soldiers who've died, and who have been maimed now will have done so in vain, for nothing. We never fully committed to eradicating the Taliban and so now 20 years later they will be worse off than when we went in.
I served there '06 and '07 in the infantry- glad we are now leaving. All the objectives we accomplished were destroyed years ago.

The Afghan people don't want us there, nor did they even make an attempt to stop the Taliban when government forces outnumbered them at least 2:1.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Not to be that guy, but source? We have up above a video of people ecstatic that the Taliban are back in town. I'm sure we don't have polling data like in the US but what is this idea based on?


unknown.png


 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
We shouldn't have left, when we went into Afghanistan 20 years ago those in power KNEW we likely could never leave without what is about to happen. We have permanent bases all over the world, what's one more?

Imperialism is a bad thing actually.

It's disgraceful now all those soldiers who've died, and who have been maimed now will have done so in vain, for nothing.

I hate to tell you this, but every American and Afghan death in this conflict has always been in vain because, as you noted, the powers-that-be have always known this would be the end result, at the very least since we abandoned the country to go after Iraq. The actual focus of the US in Afghanistan for two decades has been to make a bunch of money for the military-industrial complex, to maintain a non-viable geopolitical position for an insane War on Terror that could never work and for a resource extraction game that China outplayed us in anyway, and to avoid embarrassment over eventual loss.

Understanding reality and not wanting to keep up this fantasy of turning around the conflict one day while simultaneously bombing innocent people to bits and propping up a corrupt fake government that most people in the country ignore is not the same thing as being OK with the Taliban.
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
It seems weird to leave out the next line...

PEACE AND RECONCILIATION.
Some 64.0% of those surveyed say reconciliation with the Taliban is possible, a 10 percentage point increase over 2018 (53.5%). Males (69.6%) are more optimistic than females (58.5%) by more than 10 points. Increased media coverage of the U.S.-Taliban peace talks have raised public awareness of the talks, as reflected in a new question this year that shows 77.4% of respondents overall are aware of efforts to negotiate with the Taliban. A new question in 2019 gauges Afghan support for efforts to negotiate peace with the Taliban. This year, the proportion of people who strongly or somewhat support these efforts stands at 88.7%.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440

Would you consider this an outcome of "peace talks"

Do you think most people when polled think of "peace" as one side defeating the other and making no concessions as they conquer a nation.

Do you think that's what people were positively responding to. That idea.

Or instead something like where the Taliban were a political party people could vote for and they would stop shooting civilians.
 

Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,638
We shouldn't have left, when we went into Afghanistan 20 years ago those in power KNEW we likely could never leave without what is about to happen. We have permanent bases all over the world, what's one more? It's disgraceful now all those soldiers who've died, and who have been maimed now will have done so in vain, for nothing.

Two things here:

1) Comparing the US occupation of Afghanistan to any other US base in a foreign country is a gross oversimplification. And it also severely downplays the fact that US involvement in international affairs has had plenty of negative consequences so presenting it as a not a big deal is weird.

2) Saying this is a betrayal to the soldiers who fought in Afghanistan is an incredibly bad faith argument considering polls have shown that the majority of veterans support withdrawal.
 
Last edited:

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Banned
Feb 25, 2018
8,536
Honestly the only thing I think about the Afghan war is kids, especially girls, being in this fucking shithole, with the Taliban back in power.

Barbarians
 
Oct 25, 2017
829
Also, the Taliban has been increasing in territory for a few years now. The status-quo wasn't working anyway. The argument isn't withdrawal or leave 3,000 troops there, it's withdrawal or another surge

We can and should debate whether how the US did executing a withdrawal, but honestly if 20 years still leads to this what's going to change if we stay another 20? I don't get it.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,828
Liz Cheney is upset for the wrong reasons, but she manages to shit on both Donald and Joe about it.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
Where at? All I see him doing is scolding Biden.


About the same as what you see. No more endless wars - "Biden did what you wanted" which is accurate, we wanted to pull out of Afghanistan. His take itself of course, is crude hyperbolic and inaccurate. Seems ironic for the far right to remind people floundering around for context and make sense of what happened.

 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,828




www.nytimes.com

Biden Administration Prompts Largest Permanent Increase in Food Stamps (Published 2021)

The jump in benefits, the biggest in the program’s history, comes after a revision of the initiative’s nutrition standards that supporters say will reduce hunger and better reflect how Americans eat.

WASHINGTON — The Biden administration has revised the nutrition standards of the food stamp program and prompted the largest permanent increase to benefits in the program's history, a move that will give poor people more power to fill their grocery carts but add billions of dollars to the cost of a program that feeds one in eight Americans.
Under rules to be announced on Monday and put in place in October, average benefits will rise more than 25 percent from prepandemic levels. All 42 million people in the program will receive additional aid. The move does not require congressional approval, and unlike the large pandemic-era expansions, which are starting to expire, the changes are intended to last.
For at least a decade, critics of the benefits have said they were too low to provide an adequate diet. More than three-quarters of households exhaust their benefits in the first half of the monthly cycle, and researchers have linked subsequent food shortages to problems as diverse as increased hospital admissions, more school suspensions and lower SAT scores.
Under the new rules, average monthly benefits, $121 per person before the pandemic, will rise by $36. Although the increase may seem modest to middle-class families, proponents say it will reduce hunger, improve nutrition and lead to better health.
 

WhySoDevious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,461
Is there a consensus on why the Afghani army fell so quickly to the Taliban?

Were there actual battles and they lost or did they just give up?
 

discotheque

Member
Dec 23, 2019
3,861
Pretty funny to watch the American right flip back into neocon mode after four years of pretending they were always against the wars

Props to Ann Coulter for being the only consistent Republican!
 

Newlib

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,822
Pretty funny to watch the American right flip back into neocon mode after four years of pretending they were always against the wars

Props to Ann Coulter for being the only consistent Republican!

Eh I don't think that is a fair criticism. Like they will all criticize Biden cuz that's what they do but I doubt Tucker is going to argue that we should have stayed in Afghanistan longer on Monday.
 

RussTC3

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
1,878
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissive Commentary
But they could've planned it better. That's the problem.
Meh. Doesn't matter. Time to move on. They'll get the people and resources out they they want. This is a big nothing waste of time. Energy needs to be focused on helping Haiti right now. That's the actual internationally important story right now.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Meh. Doesn't matter. Time to move on. They'll get the people and resources out they they want. This is a big nothing waste of time. Energy needs to be focused on helping Haiti right now. That's the actual internationally important story right now.

You could have a little compassion for all the women of Afghanistan.

 

XenodudeX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,892
Jacksonville, Florida
I know fuck all about foreign policy, but are some of you saying that this couldn't of been handled better than this? Like we couldn't of evacuate these people over here and THEN exit or something? I don't know man…
 

JohnsonUT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,032
But they could've planned it better. That's the problem.

I know fuck all about foreign policy, but are some of you saying that this couldn't of been handled better than this?

Some version of this was ALWAYS going to happen. US presence guaranteed a terrible stalemate. As soon as America leaves, the Taliban was always going to fill the vacuum. This is how imperialism ends. Chaos, power vacuums, retribution, etc. The US's presence is the single greatest tool for taliban recruitment.

Short of total war or endless war, this is unavoidable. You can plan all you want, but at the end of the day, the US military is a bureaucracy which guarantees slowness, bad planning, and bad implementation. We will be dealing with the blowback from our activity for the next 30 years.
 
OP
OP
SSF1991

SSF1991

Member
Jun 19, 2018
3,263
The country's involvement in Afghanistan was a fucking mess, from top to bottom. I'm not surprised that the withdrawl ended up being messy too. But, I do think that the withdrawl should've been planned out and organized better, so the women and children that will be suffering under a Taliban regime could get the hell out of the country before it's too late.

That said, after 20 messy years of involvement, it was guaranteed that this was not going to end on a good note, even if the Taliban didn't succeed in taking back the country. The criticism I have isn't "the withdrawl should not have happened". The criticism I have is "they shouldn't have withdrawn so recklessly". I also don't think loudly announcing "we're leaving" just before doing it helped either...
 
Last edited:

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,623
I know fuck all about foreign policy, but are some of you saying that this couldn't of been handled better than this? Like we couldn't of evacuate these people over here and THEN exit or something? I don't know man…
The entire history of this war is two decades of generals and secretaries of defense boasting over and over that this will be easy, it's doable, we can do it, just give us some extra time to pull it off, with no end in sight for any of it. Hell, that's the entire history of the U.S. military presence in the Middle East!

There was either no clear-cut, obvious, win-win exit strategy for us in Afghanistan, or there is one and four separate governments were completely incapable of realizing it.
 

JohnsonUT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,032
The entire history of this war is two decades of generals and secretaries of defense boasting over and over that this will be easy, it's doable, we can do it, just give us some extra time to pull it off, with no end in sight for any of it. Hell, that's the entire history of the U.S. military presence in the Middle East!

There was either no clear-cut, obvious, win-win exit strategy for us in Afghanistan, or there is one and four separate governments were completely incapable of realizing it.
I would argue the history of war is built on promises of quick and easy victory.
 

RussTC3

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
1,878
When you said Haiti was the"important international" issue the implications was there.
Nah, I just said it's more important. I've previously stated I feel horribly for the women and people of Afghanistan, but what's the solution? Evacuate the entire population?

I mean this is where we're at. Nothing would have changed what is inevitable. I'm glad to see that President Biden will address the nation, though. I do agree he needs to provide some clarity especially since our media is trash. They don't care about anything except ratings.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,245
I know fuck all about foreign policy, but are some of you saying that this couldn't of been handled better than this? Like we couldn't of evacuate these people over here and THEN exit or something? I don't know man…
Some people are still in denial that this whole "just rip the bandaid off and get it over with" approach was a terribly miscalculated mistake. There was a whole spectrum of options between troop surge 2.0 and what we ended up doing. It was never a binary choice between troop surge/indefinite presence and hasty withdrawal.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Nah, I just said it's more important. I've previously stated I feel horribly for the women and people of Afghanistan, but what's the solution? Evacuate the entire population?

I mean this is where we're at. Nothing would have changed what is inevitable.
Better planning could have lessened the hurt.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,623
The country's involvement in Afghanistan was a fucking mess, from top to bottom. I'm not surprised that the withdrawl ended up being messy too. But, I do think that the withdrawl should've been planned out and organized better, so the women and children that will be suffering under a Taliban regime could get the hell out of the country before it's too late.

That said, after 20 messy years of involvement, it was guaranteed that this was not going to end on a good note, even if the Taliban didn't succeed in taking back the country. The criticism I have isn't "the withdrawl should not have happened". The criticism I have is "they shouldn't have withdrawn so recklessly". I also don't think loudly announcing "we're leaving" just before doing it helped either...
I don't think you can do a quiet withdrawal, everyone would notice declining troop levels. Orders would be made to evacuate XYZ numbers of troops, to empty out bases, etc. and those orders and outcomes would be reported on.

Some people are still in denial that this whole "just rip the bandaid off and get it over with" approach was a terribly miscalculated mistake. There was a whole spectrum of options between troop surge 2.0 and what we ended up doing. It was never a binary choice between troop surge/indefinite presence and hasty withdrawal.
A whole spectrum of options that have just not been exercised by any of four administrations in 20 years.

Our mission in Afghanistan has been bereft of good ideas for a long, long time. Maybe because the leaders are all incompetent and/or agenda-driven, or because maybe there isn't a wide spectrum of better-case alternatives. Or maybe a little of both.
 

ZeroRay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
362
I'm pretty sure the top brass in the military bungled this up as much as possible to humiliate the administration. They really didn't want to leave.
 

JohnsonUT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,032
Reminder this "quick withdrawal" has been going on for 16 months now.

Reminder this "quick withdrawal" has already been extended 5 extra months.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,623
I'm not sure if I believe they did this to intentionally hurt Biden. Maybe they're just that inept.
Yeah. Why would we believe that generals who are heavily invested in staying in the country indefinitely would even know how to wind things down? Or, maybe to be more charitable, there might be not a very good way to wind down a war where U.S. military presence is the only thing propping up the government in the first place.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.