• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
I think if there were no interest rates, there'd be no loans given, period. I'm not sure the math of college grads earn more income thus pay more into the govt via taxes works, especially when the highest income earners so frequently evade paying taxes at all!
That's very possible, my idea is not mathematically proven so it might end up being that without interest rates they don't make any money at all. I think however there is still a net benefit to an educated people that can't be measured in strict monetary terms.

This may require Congress as well.

As it should, we don't live in a dictatorship/monarchy.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,818
I'm legit surprised that Biden might pull off the first huge non-emergency / non-war bipartisan legislation in nearly a generation.

And Trump should be salty. He could have EASILY passed a big infrastructure bill in his tenure but he was too incompetent and couldn't stay focus on something for more than 5 minutes if it didn't directly relate to his own interests.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,298
new jersey
im no terminally online leftist and i do believe in reality. but when biden/DoE has the ability to get rid of debt (something that is also supported by Schumer and Warren) but simply won't due to "concerns" and people saying he shouldn't govern by EOs, like who cares? Trump did it constantly, the next Republican president will do it too. Cancel all the debt if you have the power to do so, who the fuck cares about the process or whatever. If you can do it, do it. I'm all for breaking the rules in our broken system to create good things that don't harm anyone. I was all for kicking out the parliamentarian and replacing her with someone that wanted 15 minimum wage.

Cancel all student debt. It's such an easy win.
I'm legit surprised that Biden might pull off the first huge non-emergency / non-war bipartisan legislation in nearly a generation.

And Trump should be salty. He could have EASILY passed a big infrastructure bill in his tenure but he was too incompetent and couldn't stay focus on something for more than 5 minutes if it didn't directly relate to his own interests.
I'm super surprised too! I didn't expect this to really pass not because of Biden but because of the shitty congress. I'm quite pleased with the results so far.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
And Trump should be salty. He could have EASILY passed a big infrastructure bill in his tenure but he was too incompetent and couldn't stay focus on something for more than 5 minutes if it didn't directly relate to his own interests.
I'm still kind of surprised about this. Like, it seems improbable that it even happened even though I lived through it and can explain it.
 

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,576
The bipartisan bill is another massive loss for Trump.

Guaranteed, he will come out and slam the bill as too expensive when it happens even though he'd have done the same thing.
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
but simply won't due to "concerns" and people saying he shouldn't govern by EOs, like who cares? Trump did it constantly, the next Republican president will do it too. Cancel all the debt if you have the power to do so, who the fuck cares about the process or whatever. If you can do it, do it.
Because we aren't sure he can even do it. Do you know what happened to the Trump administration when they tried to govern like this? They got beaten to hell and back in court. WaPo ran an updated interactive piece on this specific thing, as of april 26, 2019 Trump passed 105 EOs, how many were tossed out in court? 70! That's an almost 70% failure rate. Why is this what we are trying to emulate?


www.federalregister.gov

Executive Orders

Disposition Tables contain information about Presidential Documents beginning with those signed by William J. Clinton and are arranged according to Presidential administration and year of signature. The tables are compiled and maintained by the Office of the Federal Register editors.



In case after case, judges have rebuked Trump officials for failing to follow the most basic rules of governance for shifting policy, including providing legitimate explanations supported by facts and, where required, public input.

But regardless of whether the administration ultimately prevails, the rulings so far paint a remarkable portrait of a government rushing to implement far-reaching changes in policy without regard for long-standing rules against arbitrary and capricious behavior.


"What they have consistently been doing is short-circuiting the process," said Georgetown Law School's William W. Buzbee, an expert on administrative law who has studied Trump's record. In the regulatory cases, Buzbee said, "they don't even come close" to explaining their actions, "making it very easy for the courts to reject them because they're not doing their homework."

Two-thirds of the cases accuse the Trump administration of violating the Administrative Procedure Act (APA), a nearly 73-year-old law that forms the primary bulwark against arbitrary rule. The normal "win rate" for the government in such cases is about 70 percent, according to analysts and studies. But as of mid-January, a database maintained by the Institute for Policy Integrity at the New York University School of Law shows Trump's win rate at about 6 percent.

The Institute for Policy Integrity has even more up to date information, of 259 cases, the Trump admin lost 200 times!
policyintegrity.org

Roundup: Trump-Era Agency Policy in the Courts

Between 2017 and 2021, the Institute for Policy Integrity[[The Institute for Policy Integrity has filed amicus briefs in several of the cases discussed in this Roundup. Policy Integrity did not represent any of the parties.]]documented the outcomes of litigation over the Trump administration's...

Do you not see the issue here?
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Trump's record with American football, casino hotels, real estate discrimination, and civic cooperation all correlate with his record with successful legislation.

Goldenflex, no matter what people may think about Biden he is not the same as Trump and the Trump admin. XO comparisons are worthless especially the way Trump configured and used the justice department and the white house counsel. Normalizing Trump just to say Biden is just as ridiculous doesn't match up.

Wanting people to understand "how it works" when they already understand very well that it is working against them, isn't going to go anywhere.
 

lostconst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
634
insisted their plan is paid for in full, relying on a mix of changes to prescription drug rules and previously enacted coronavirus relief programs. Some of the savings come from ferreting out fraud, including in the country's unemployment insurance program, with some funding from unrealized taxes from cryptocurrency, the White House said.
The financing mechanisms exclude tax increases on wealthy Americans or corporations, as well as greater enforcement of federal tax laws,


Are they really going to "pay" for the bill by … going after unemployment fraud?
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,496
I've got 20k in student loans, I'd love to see them vanish. But if he doesn't have the authority he doesn't have the authority. It'll take an act of congress which should probably also tackle cost of college.

As for the bankruptcy thing, I actually do know the answer to that. It's part of the regulatory framework that created student loans generally. Companies can't turn down people for loans, but they got the bankruptcy stuff in exchange - which in the abstract makes sense, since the whole foundation of granting loans is "can this person be reasonably expected to pay this back." The issue is that the knock on effect of this was the massive inflation in prices, meaning that nearly everybody who wants to go to college has to get loans.

Free community College will actually probably go a ways to defusing this by giving a lot of people a way to get a degree without going to a 4 year school, but there needs to be a more systemic response to the cost problem.
 

OberstKrueger

Member
Jan 7, 2018
591
Because we aren't sure he can even do it. Do you know what happened to the Trump administration when they tried to govern like this? They got beaten to hell and back in court. WaPo ran an updated interactive piece on this specific thing, as of april 26, 2019 Trump passed 105 EOs, how many were tossed out in court? 70! That's an almost 70% failure rate. Why is this what we are trying to emulate?

Most people don't know that ~70% figure. As someone who follows this stuff more closely, even I didn't think it was quite that high. The EOs being struck down is quite a bit more quiet than the front page images of him sitting at the desk with his signature stamped on a new order.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,818
Guaranteed, he will come out and slam the bill as too expensive when it happens even though he'd have done the same thing.

He's already doing that but the GOP Senators are basically ignoring his rantings.

If I had to guess, I think the GOP Senators know an infrastructure bill is going to pass no matter what. Infrastructure is a popular non-partisan issue with the general public, especially when you're literally seeing buildings collapse like in Surfside Florida. Sometimes Republicans like to bash a bill on national TV and then claim credit in their district. But I think GOP Senators know it will be way too easy for their '22 / '24 opponent to point to their "no vote" on infrastructure. Also they won't have any control to steer certain dollars to their state / donors if there's only the Dem reconciliation bill. And I think Biden's approval numbers are just high and steady enough that Republicans also feel they need to show they're capable of getting things done and not be a roadblock to a popular President for a popular agenda item.

But whatever it really is, it's pretty amazing if this actually gets over the finish line. it'll be interesting to read the after-action report on these negotiations.
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
I've got 20k in student loans, I'd love to see them vanish. But if he doesn't have the authority he doesn't have the authority. It'll take an act of congress which should probably also tackle cost of college.

As for the bankruptcy thing, I actually do know the answer to that. It's part of the regulatory framework that created student loans generally. Companies can't turn down people for loans, but they got the bankruptcy stuff in exchange - which in the abstract makes sense, since the whole foundation of granting loans is "can this person be reasonably expected to pay this back." The issue is that the knock on effect of this was the massive inflation in prices, meaning that nearly everybody who wants to go to college has to get loans.

Free community College will actually probably go a ways to defusing this by giving a lot of people a way to get a degree without going to a 4 year school, but there needs to be a more systemic response to the cost problem.
Ah okay I am tracking now, didn't know that was the reason but makes more sense. Kind of like how the individual mandate was the compromise for requiring insurance companies to take on everyone including pre-existing conditions. Unfortunate compromise it seems.

and agreed completely on your second point.

Most people don't know that ~70% figure. As someone who follows this stuff more closely, even I didn't think it was quite that high. The EOs being struck down is quite a bit more quiet than the front page images of him sitting at the desk with his signature stamped on a new order.
In the policy integrity link it's even worse, though those aren't all for EOs but still that one is a damn 75% failure rate. wild!!

Wanting people to understand "how it works" when they already understand very well that it is working against them, isn't going to go anywhere.
that does seem to be the case with some people on this site. Unfortunately the ignore button seems more useful.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
I didn't mean that as a negative towards people. I meant that they are exhibiting frustration, and assuming they don't understand how things work is generally a bad idea.

One thing you can do that lets you move money closer to you with little pushback is declare a state of emergency. It works, too. If a state does it, they get access to federal relief. CT is still doing it with covid.

This is one thing Trump did do that actually moved money. OK, it was for "wall" but it was done. Biden could do something similar and force the federal government to come to the table to renegotiate with itself on rate and payment relief, then with private lenders under a relief program. The cost of education of course needs to be addressed and should be addressed but let's not pretend a band-aid can't be used, governments excel at creating them as it is.
 

MarioW

PikPok
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,155
New Zealand
I think if there were no interest rates, there'd be no loans given, period. I'm not sure the math of college grads earn more income thus pay more into the govt via taxes works, especially when the highest income earners so frequently evade paying taxes at all!
In NZ, student loans are made by the government and are interest free as long as you remain in NZ. Repayments are made automatically, deducted from paychecks once you are past a certain salary threshold as part of the tax system, so paid directly from the employer on your behalf. Repayments are a certain small percentage of your paycheck but you can opt to pay more. It's a pretty good system that keeps student debt manageable and the loan/repayment process simplified to the point of almost being invisible, though I don't know whether it would scale to the US given that your cost of education is much, much higher for whatever reason.
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
In NZ, student loans are made by the government and are interest free as long as you remain in NZ. Repayments are made automatically, deducted from paychecks once you are past a certain salary threshold as part of the tax system, so paid directly from the employer on your behalf. Repayments are a certain small percentage of your paycheck but you can opt to pay more. It's a pretty good system that keeps student debt manageable and the loan/repayment process simplified to the point of almost being invisible, though I don't know whether it would scale to the US given that your cost of education is much, much higher for whatever reason.
This sounds pretty great, New Zealand as a whole sounds like pretty reasonable takes on governing though I'm sure there are bads that we don't hear about on global news. Not sure all of the reasons our costs are so high but I have to imagine a large part of it is the very lucrative but also very expensive college sports which rival professional sports in their size and reach...
 

gcubed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,785
Don't IBRs have an expiration? I would think you could couple an IBR plan at a very low percentage of salary with a plan to just simply expunge the remainder of the debt after x years. You can even tie this to the school to slow down the explosion of costs. If the graduate can't make enough out of college to pay for their degree in x years, the college only gets a percentage of the tuition from the government.
 

rickyson33

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
3,053
He's already doing that but the GOP Senators are basically ignoring his rantings.

If I had to guess, I think the GOP Senators know an infrastructure bill is going to pass no matter what. Infrastructure is a popular non-partisan issue with the general public, especially when you're literally seeing buildings collapse like in Surfside Florida. Sometimes Republicans like to bash a bill on national TV and then claim credit in their district. But I think GOP Senators know it will be way too easy for their '22 / '24 opponent to point to their "no vote" on infrastructure. Also they won't have any control to steer certain dollars to their state / donors if there's only the Dem reconciliation bill. And I think Biden's approval numbers are just high and steady enough that Republicans also feel they need to show they're capable of getting things done and not be a roadblock to a popular President for a popular agenda item.

But whatever it really is, it's pretty amazing if this actually gets over the finish line. it'll be interesting to read the after-action report on these negotiations.

it was definitely a big time failure on the Republicans part not to get some sort of infrastructure bill passed while Trump was in office

they can take credit a bit but people that aren't already in the tank for a particular party mostly care about who was President when assigning credit for stuff like this
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
I referenced a Q conference video the other day, it's up on youtube now. Some of these interviews are just so sad.

youtu.be

Q Conference

Here's what went down at the "God and Country Patriot Roundup" in Dallas, TX. Interviews featured include General Michael Flynn, US Representative and former...
 

Slash

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Sep 12, 2018
9,859
Can't wait for the inevitable 10 page thread that will be made from this quote while overshadowing how big the Infrastructure bill is

This aged well...

For all of the complaining here that the Senate gets nothing done, it's pretty quiet on a day where there actually was! Still, I'm really glad that Trump's word is mattering less and less since he just trashed the deal but 17 Republicans voted for it.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,408
Phoenix
This aged well...

For all of the complaining here that the Senate gets nothing done, it's pretty quiet on a day where there actually was! Still, I'm really glad that Trump's word is mattering less and less since he just trashed the deal but 17 Republicans voted for it.
Well, voted to proceed, but yeah. There is still time for this to blow up, but with 17 onboard, seems unlikely.
 

Slash

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Sep 12, 2018
9,859
Well, voted to proceed, but yeah. There is still time for this to blow up, but with 17 onboard, seems unlikely.

The fact that they could lose 7 votes but still get it passed is pretty important. It's also historically important because a major infrastructure bill has been talked about for years, and we're hopefully about a week away from its fruition. Big win for Biden today.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
One thing that gets me is if they're worried about the consequences and downsides of the EOs going to court and being held up for god knows how long, I don't get why nobody will just straight up say that instead of dancing around it.
"We would rather find a legislative solution than take the risk of putting federal loan debt in the courts" seems like a pretty easy statement to put out whenever the question pops up.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,408
Phoenix
The fact that they could lose 7 votes but still get it passed is pretty important. It's also historically important because a major infrastructure bill has been talked about for years, and we're hopefully about a week away from its fruition. Big win for Biden today.
I love how mad Trump is about it. Tells me all I need to know that this is a win for the country.
 

rickyson33

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
3,053
One thing that gets me is if they're worried about the consequences and downsides of the EOs going to court and being held up for god knows how long, I don't get why nobody will just straight up say that instead of dancing around it.
"We would rather find a legislative solution than take the risk of putting federal loan debt in the courts" seems like a pretty easy statement to put out whenever the question pops up.

Biden has said repeatedly that he doesn't think he has the authority to do it and that it should be done legislatively instead

sounds like pretty much the exact same thing as what you're asking for here to me
 

discotheque

Member
Dec 23, 2019
3,861
The Urban Institute's projections show poverty falling to 7.7 percent this year from 13.9 percent in 2018. That decline, 45 percent, is nearly three times the previous three-year record, according to historical estimates by researchers at Columbia University. The projected drop in child poverty, to 5.6 from 14.2 percent, amounts to a decline of 61 percent. That exceeds the previous 50 years combined, the Columbia figures show.

In addition to there being nearly 20 million fewer people in poverty, the institute projects about 10 million fewer in "near poverty," with incomes of 100 to 150 percent of the poverty line. Under the yardstick the Urban Institute used (the government's Supplemental Poverty Measure), the poverty line for two adults and two children with typical housing costs is about $30,000.
E7balY2X0As1btX


www.nytimes.com

Pandemic Aid Programs Spur a Record Drop in Poverty (Published 2021)

The most comprehensive study yet of the federal response to the pandemic shows huge but temporary benefits for the poor — and helps frame a larger debate over the role of government.

This is only a projection, but wow.
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
E7balY2X0As1btX


www.nytimes.com

Pandemic Aid Programs Spur a Record Drop in Poverty (Published 2021)

The most comprehensive study yet of the federal response to the pandemic shows huge but temporary benefits for the poor — and helps frame a larger debate over the role of government.

This is only a projection, but wow.
Remember stuff like this when anyone claims both sides are the same and that Joe Biden hates poor people. This administration has been amazing for America across the board.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,408
Phoenix
These officers really were like the best possible picks to represent the 01/06 attacks, like, they nail it every time.
 

SquirrelSr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,024

MarioW

PikPok
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,155
New Zealand
This sounds pretty great, New Zealand as a whole sounds like pretty reasonable takes on governing though I'm sure there are bads that we don't hear about on global news. Not sure all of the reasons our costs are so high but I have to imagine a large part of it is the very lucrative but also very expensive college sports which rival professional sports in their size and reach...
Yeah, we have inter-collegiate sports, but it is amateurish compared to what you have there. However, I would have thought that pretty much all college sports programs were run at a net profit rather than being subsidized by student fees, no?
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
Yeah, we have inter-collegiate sports, but it is amateurish compared to what you have there. However, I would have thought that pretty much all college sports programs were run at a net profit rather than being subsidized by student fees, no?
I'll have to look into it further, but at my college at least we were charged a "sports fee", and we had an NCAA Division 1 hockey team. Not sure how much bigger college hockey can get and still charged us fees and pretty sure they lost money each year. Signing players is really spendy.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,439
Mo Brooks was wearing body armor on Jan 6th because he was warned of violence the day before, and bragged about it to a reporter.





Hooboy: Report: GOP Rep. Brooks wore body armor during speech on January 6 https://t.co/QTcL1WLErD

Brooks disclosed this information - story here: https://t.co/eaxjHldIBE

Brooks continued, "And as a consequence of those warnings, I did not go to my condo. Instead, I slept on the floor of my office. And when I gave my speech at the Ellipse, I was wearing body armor."

"That's why I was wearing that nice little windbreaker," he told me with a grin. "To cover up the body armor."
 
OP
OP
SSF1991

SSF1991

Member
Jun 19, 2018
3,263

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
it was definitely a big time failure on the Republicans part not to get some sort of infrastructure bill passed while Trump was in office

they can take credit a bit but people that aren't already in the tank for a particular party mostly care about who was President when assigning credit for stuff like this
100%, keep in mind Trump got nearly all of the credit for CARES Act to the point where it arguably nearly saved his re-election bid, despite that law being mostly the brainchild of the House Democrats.

Biden will overwhelmingly get the credit for this bill if it passes.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,286
One thing that gets me is if they're worried about the consequences and downsides of the EOs going to court and being held up for god knows how long, I don't get why nobody will just straight up say that instead of dancing around it.
"We would rather find a legislative solution than take the risk of putting federal loan debt in the courts" seems like a pretty easy statement to put out whenever the question pops up.

The actual reason is that the courts/future GOP president could reverse it, and reinstate that debt (possibly years later). The pressure then would be to permanently delete the records of student loan debt when making the EO, but that could be illegal


Yeah, we have inter-collegiate sports, but it is amateurish compared to what you have there. However, I would have thought that pretty much all college sports programs were run at a net profit rather than being subsidized by student fees, no?

Yeah, sports are pretty independent for most colleges. The thing driving our tuition up is the automatic eligibility for loans; if students are gonna borrow the cost anyway, why not make tuition $20K per year instead of $10K? Easiest budget fix ever for a college is to raise tuition prices.
 

MarioW

PikPok
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,155
New Zealand
Yeah, sports are pretty independent for most colleges. The thing driving our tuition up is the automatic eligibility for loans; if students are gonna borrow the cost anyway, why not make tuition $20K per year instead of $10K? Easiest budget fix ever for a college is to raise tuition prices.

Makes sense. Same with health care I imagine. Why improve processes, tech, and efficiencies when you can push the costs onto insurance/patients? My two flirtations with the US health care system revealed some of the most backwards, inefficient service delivery I have ever seen.
 

Mr. RPG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,051
I swear half of era just wants a left wing Trump. When did pragmatism/reality die, or did it ever actually exist?

People here genuinely believed that after Biden won the White House that Democrats would have packed the courts and defunded the police in Biden's first 100 days. Most people here are completely clueless on how our government works. Biden was never going to do either of those things and congressional Democrats would never allow them to happen.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
7,298
new jersey
People here genuinely believed that after Biden won the White House that Democrats would have packed the courts and defunded the police in Biden's first 100 days. Most people here are completely clueless on how our government works. Biden was never going to do either of those things and congressional Democrats would never allow them to happen.
Yeah, expecting that kinda stuff was crazy. Though I can see some wanting a "left wing Trump" in terms of the rhetoric of not respecting traditions/norms. Because Democrats have played in their lane for so long and tried to do everything with 'respect' while the other side just steps all over them. I don't blame some for wanting a version of that for the left. It's probably why Bernie drew so many new people to politics. His messaging was very blunt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.